My New Favorite Restaurant
"Restaurant bans screaming kids, business booms," is the headline on Ben Popken's piece on Consumerist. The signs at the restaurant read, "Screaming children will not be tolerated." I'm all for signs like that -- along with "no cellphones" signs. You?
By the way, I pretty much stopped going to The Rose Cafe because they wouldn't put signs like that out (I wrote a letter to the owners asking them to), and I just didn't want to sit there and endure the cellular shouting over the classical music they play (which I always loved). It used to be a serene (and friendly) place to be in the morning. Not any more. But, back to the subject at hand, here's the video:
From the WECT report by Max Winitz:
The owner of the Olde Salty restaurant, Brenda Armes, is tired of having her customers complain to her about children misbehaving and screaming when others are trying to enjoy a quiet meal.Armes says the signs have worked.
"It has been a good thing for us," Armes said. "It has brought us in more customers than it has ever kept away."
...Armes says that if a child is screaming, a restaurant employee will ask the parent to take them outside to calm down. They will not be asked to leave the restaurant for good.
"We want to attract the type of people that come in knowing they aren't going to have to sit behind a table with a bunch of screaming children," Armes said.
How the hell can you argue with that. I'd patronize that restaurant in a hot second, even if they served baked tofu. Well, maybe I'd stop in for a celebratory glass of wine, in that case, before I left and got a burger.
After watching the interview, I have to feel depressed about these parents interviewed. Her second sentence was, "You can't help it if your kids scream."
You can't?
You can't take them outside until they calm down? You have no control over this whatsoever? So, you shouldn't even try, on the hit-or-miss proposition that you might get the kids to stop screaming? You should just endure this, and force everyone else to do the same because you sure as hell aren't going to take your kids home, away from everyone else, and let them dine in peace?
Patrick at September 9, 2010 5:42 AM
I like the sign addressed to both children and adults! Ha ha!
As a parent, I don't want to go out and listen to someone's screaming kids. I don't go to restaurants much anyway, but when I have been when they were younger, if there was any fussing they got taken outside without anyone having to ask me. The oblivion of a lot of people to the comfort of those around them is really quite astounding, and that extends beyond parents of small children. I don't want to have to deal with my kids being pests in public anyway - it's more stressful than it is at home because it's not just me getting annoyed, it's others around me!
I just don't get these people who sit there seemingly oblivious to the racket their kids are making - and even letting them run around and climb on things! If you're going to be like that, go to Chuck E Cheese, which is somewhere I refuse to go to. Nightmare! I'd rather just have my kids learn to behave like civilized human beings than deal with that amount of mayhem just to go out and eat. Leave 'em with the babysitter for a few hours; they'll live.
And don't go to restaurants with little babies who are likely to start crying - don't worry, it won't last forever. That mom in the video doesn't look like she needs another restaurant meal anyway. People act so entitled. My kids know better than to start screaming but generally, if I'm eating out it's to get a break from them, so they're not even there anyway, lol. If you have so little control over your kids, don't take them to restaurants.
Thag Jones at September 9, 2010 6:04 AM
Totally agree with you, Patrick! I couldn't believe it when I heard that woman say that one cannot control screaming from their child. Uh, last time I checked, that is exactly what a parent is supposed to do. I get really frustrated at parents who say things like that: I just cannot get Johnny to sit still/stay in his car seat/stop hitting his sister. I mean, who the hell is running the show here? You, or the four year old? And if you don't have the spine to get on them now, what do you think is going to happen when the kid is 14?
Also, the Libertarian in me loves this. It's a privately owned restaurant, and if the owners don't want screaming tykes in there, they should be allowed to keep them out!
UW Girl at September 9, 2010 6:27 AM
If I get a call on the cell phone, and I need to take it and it is more than a 25 second conversation, I hoof it towards the door.
In addition to not disturbing others, I can usually find a spot where I have relative privacy and enough quiet to hear my call.
Am I being overly polite, or am I just a moron?
I R A Darth Aggie at September 9, 2010 6:47 AM
At a coffee shop near me there is a sign saying, "Unattended children will be given a kitten and an espresso." Now there's an idea.
Christopher at September 9, 2010 6:51 AM
@Patrick-AMEN! You took the words right out of my mouth.
A lot of this is fallout from the "New Parenting"- which originated in the ivory towers of Universities starting in the 1960's. Where professors, who probably didn't even have kids, told people that "you can't say no to your children you might damage them emotionally." "Be democratic with your children and give them a choice of what they want to eat, do etc..."
Due in large part to this we have the greatest number of weak, helpless, ineffective parents that this nation and possibly any other, except for maybe Canada and Great Britain have ever seen.
We literally have people that think it is okay for other people at a restaurant to be subjected there screaming, blatantly misbehaving children.
Like the girl in the video. She justifies it.
That's how selfish our society has gotten. People think- It's my right to do whatever I want. Too bad if I'm bothering other people and disturbing them. It's all about me and what I want!
David M. at September 9, 2010 7:01 AM
I SO want to go to this restaurant! Good for them!
I really hope this is the start of a trend. I am SO tired of ill-behaved kids in restaurants, I can't even begin to tell you.
And Patrick, you took the words right out of my mouth.
Ann at September 9, 2010 7:32 AM
You cannot necessarily control another human being (what the woman from the interview said), but you can do a lot to prevent and assuage. For instance, don't take a kid who hasn't learned manners at home out to eat. And don't take a kid who is over-tired or has a track record of being a screamer out to eat. My parents didn't tolerate that behavior. We sat quietly (with a coloring book) or we waited in the car. My brother had some issues when he was little and couldn't talk properly until he was almost 5. His frustration means screaming. My little cousin had the same issue. They didn't go out to eat!
Just because babies tend to cry, as a natural occurrence, doesn't mean it's a pleasant sound and people want to listen to it. Burping and farting is normal - but do you want to sit next to someone doing that while you eat?! The woman who was interviewed seemed to think that a child's noise should somehow not be disturbing to other patrons because it's common. I draw no distinction between a baby and a toddler crying as far as annoyance. There is a difference as far as how the parent should react(discipline for a 3 year old vs. popping a bottle in and infant's mouth) but in both instances, it includes the parent removing the child from the restaurant if s/he cannot calm the child down w/in a short time.
Over on Double X a writer complained about the language of the sign itself. It wasn't a humorous or benign sign - it's very abrupt and straightforward. She thinks the sign itself is rude and that people should be less hostile. I think that's nit picky and annoying. Just some food for thought.
Gretchen at September 9, 2010 7:58 AM
I too would visit that restaurant in a heartbeat.
Once in awhile it's perfectly OK for adults to be able to have a conversation in a restaurant without someone's child screaming lustily in the background.
Willa at September 9, 2010 8:11 AM
If I get a call on the cell phone, and I need to take it and it is more than a 25 second conversation, I hoof it towards the door.
You are polite.
Amy Alkon at September 9, 2010 8:48 AM
Unfortunately there are many parents who think that their children are so precious and important that they think the entire world should be as enamored as they are. Those are the parents that think nothing of sitting in a nice place and letting the kids cause mayhem. I wouldn't have even stayed at Friendlys with my kids when they were younger if they threw fits or screamed. I couldn't afford to eat out often but when I did go to a nice place, the last thing I want is a baby screaming at the next table and a parent just finishing his/her meal as though the diners are dear. Its a complete lack of consideration.
Kristen at September 9, 2010 9:08 AM
My wife and I patronize a Mexican restaurant in the East Bay that has a sign at the bar entrace stating that the bar is for people 18+ only. This is one of the reasons we patronize it.
Children are welcomed (and fawned over) in the restaurant, but the bar area is for adults.
And you spelled "moron" correctly.
So, if the kid started flinging food across the room, you'd do nothing, too? How about if he stuck a fork in the electric socket or grabbed the drink of the guy at the next table and downed it? Just kids being kids, eh?
In the old days, teaching children how to behave in public (and in private) was called parenting.
Conan the Grammarian at September 9, 2010 9:11 AM
I remember years ago, walking into a restaurant and seeing a parent with a toddler who was playing on top of the table, and screaming. Once in awhile the father would pick up the toddler and blow a raspberry into the son's tummy. He was LOUD and while the parents knew it, I sensed they figured they had no control. So they laughed it off.
When they left, their area looked like a war zone.
I've also been to TARGET where not only are there screaming children, but parents berating their kids to the point of fury. I wish TARGET would put signs like that up.
There were many years when we didn't go out very much to restaurants. Our kids were little, and it just wasn't worth the stress on us or other diners. Eating out became a special event (which it should be), hence, the kids were always pretty good when we did.
Kanani at September 9, 2010 9:26 AM
I think people just have no sense of shame... I would be mortified by my kids screaming, so I'd remove them to the car, and did when they were young. Also? We didn't GO to non-kid-friendly places when mine were little. When you want to go to a nice place, why not get a baby sitter, and actually enjoy yourself for a change.
SwissArmyD at September 9, 2010 10:19 AM
An infant's cry is a distress call that our brains are hard-wired to respond to. No wonder strangers cannot eat in peace when babies are wailing in the background!
broncochar at September 9, 2010 11:11 AM
why not get a baby sitter
I think this points at another problem. Almost nobody baby sits any more and if they do it is really expensive.
My cousin says that as a teenager she was the only person she knew who did babysitting beyond their own siblings - she still does some babysitting. When my brother goes out, he has trouble finding a babysitter besides our parents. For awhile his then wife's cousin would do it occasionally.
I think that is one of the reasons...I mean in many cases the cost of the babysitter is as much or more than dinner - if you can find one.
The Former Banker at September 9, 2010 11:16 AM
I have found a pretty simple way to mostly avoid screaming children in restaurants. It is the same way, I avoid lines at the grocery store. I don't go in when they are likely to be there. I almost never set foot in a restaurant for lunch until 1:30 in the afternoon and I almost never go into a restaurant in the evening until about 8. Usually you are safe by 7 but Tuesday night at PF Changs, we got there a little bit early, around 7:15 and there was a screamer who was fortunately on his way out the door about 5 minutes after we got there. On the weekends I try to avoid restaurants all together or go places where children probably won't like the food. Usually we stay home on weekends and cook or else I am traveling. A good part of the solution is to become very European. If you do have to eat early, try for a seat in the bar. It keeps the atmosphere more pleasant. Isabel
Isabel1130 at September 9, 2010 11:26 AM
You can no more keep a baby/toddler from screaming and crying than you can control a wild animal from shitting on the floor.
Which is why NEITHER of them belong in a restaurant.
Sorry folks, am still pissed about having my last meal out (two months ago) ruined by small shrieking brat after I shelled out an extra $40 for a sitter for my own kids that evening.
Juliana at September 9, 2010 11:42 AM
Sorry folks, am still pissed about having my last meal out (two months ago) ruined by small shrieking brat after I shelled out an extra $40 for a sitter for my own kids that evening.
Word. I don't have kids, so although it is annoying to go out and have to listen to some kid act like a brat, at least I get to go home to a quiet place. I really feel sorry for people who shelled out the bucks for a sitter for their OWN kids, and then had to listen to someone ELSE's kids wail like banshees.
Pirate Jo at September 9, 2010 12:24 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/09/my_new_favorite.html#comment-1752420">comment from Isabel1130I almost never go into a restaurant in the evening until about 8.
Bar and Grill near me, lovely place, fine food and wines, live jazz, dim lighting, candles, clearly an adult place -- shrill Jersey Shore-esque shrew and her husband and brats behind us nevertheless.
Amy Alkon at September 9, 2010 12:44 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/09/my_new_favorite.html#comment-1752421">comment from The Former Bankerwhy not get a baby sitter I think this points at another problem. Almost nobody baby sits any more and if they do it is really expensive.
Boohoo. If you can't afford to have children, and pay for all the ensuing stuff, don't.
You don't get to make the rest of us pay the costs. Well, not in a civilized world, you savages.
Amy Alkon at September 9, 2010 12:45 PM
When my brother goes out, he has trouble finding a babysitter besides our parents. For awhile his then wife's cousin would do it occasionally.
Posted by: The Former Banker
_________________________
Ironic. It reminds me of what my father said after he taught English to adults in Prague for a few years: Paid baby-sitting is practically unknown in the Czech Republic, mainly because Czechs don't tend to move hundreds of miles from their families the way so many Americans do. So there's usually a relative available to do it for free - and, I would hope, no excuses about disturbing strangers. Besides, how fun can it be to eat in a good restaurant if you still have to listen to screaming?
In 1937, Newbery Medalist Carol Ryrie Brink wrote "Baby Island" and said in the introduction that she and her friends, as kids, were always asking to borrow the neighbors' babies to play with, and "they never thought of receiving pay for this delightful pastime. Minding a baby was its own reward. It is more difficult to borrow babies now, I understand. Whether this is due to a scarcity of babies or to more particular mothers, I am unable to say."
(And, according to Ann Landers, paid baby-sitting in the U.S. was pretty much unknown in the 19th century. Whether female neighbors who weren't relatives - even in cities - were actually expected to do it for free, I don't know. But I've certainly heard of that expectation, especially regarding housewives with no other small children to watch. Thank goodness no one would dream of demanding such unpaid labor from women nowadays.)
Final note from Miss Manners:
"Miss Manners remembers when voluntary service
was something for which people volunteered, rather than were sentenced to do (as in high school graduation requirements). But a lot has happened since then, notably the attitude that it
is foolish to work for free. It is not only modern greed that created this, but a long-term general dismissal of the value of volunteer work
because it was done by unsalaried women."
lenona at September 9, 2010 1:51 PM
BTW, to see a similar story from 2005, Google on "Taste of Heaven" and "indoor voices." The place was Chicago. The owner said he was getting tired of seeing adults walk in and then immediately walk out upon hearing how noisy the kids were.
lenona at September 9, 2010 1:55 PM
The cost of the sitter isn't an issue for us, it's the TIME. Heck, if I could use our money to buy more time....? Hubby is a very busy man, and I'm a little over-committed with school, so this was a rare treat. Ruin't by selfish parents raising an exponentially clueless and selfish copy of themselves.
As to paying sitters- I have a rare gem of a sitter. I could brag on her, but it would make everyone dissatisfied with their sitters. Anyone who posits that teenagers have no ethic these days should meet her. There's hope yet. She's a workhorse worth her weight in gold, I'd pay her twice what I do but her mother wouldn't let me.
Juliana at September 9, 2010 2:14 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/09/my_new_favorite.html#comment-1752450">comment from lenonaBTW, to see a similar story from 2005, Google on "Taste of Heaven" and "indoor voices."
I wrote about it in I SEE RUDE PEOPLE. See "The Underparented Child" chapter. Note: It's the parents (or rather "parents") who are to blame for bringing their kids places they aren't behaviorally ready for.
Amy Alkon at September 9, 2010 2:17 PM
Amy, if you are going into restaurants with screaming children after 8 pm at night, I have to suspect that it must be a cultural/economic thing because I almost never see a kid in a restaurant that late out here in the Rocky Mountains. I have a theory about that. The cost of living is so high in LA, these people you see are generally making way more money relative to the cost of dining out in your area than people out here where the cost of living is low and salaries are lower. The people in LA have the money to eat out and a nice restaurant is only marginally more expensive than a fast food place. Also most of these people can't do math, or chose not to. If we are talking about the 20-30 somethings, they also, for the most part, don't know how to cook. :-) If a nice restaurant truly wants to discourage screaming children they should, under no circumstances have a children's menu and the bar area should be "no children allowed".
Isabel1130 at September 9, 2010 2:26 PM
Our son was a bundle of energy. At 2 or 3 I knew he wouldn't be able to wait for our food to arrive, so after ordering I'd take him outside to run his butt off and tire him out a bit before the meal came. Small snacks (cheese cubes, a few crackers) also went a long way towards calming him down, a lot of restaurant screaming is overly hungry kids who are miserable.
And, we only went to family-friendly places,as one of the favorite things to do (if I didn't ward him off successfully) was to jam his chubby hand in someone's water glass to grab the ice cubes. Not something to do in an upscale restaurant :-D
crella at September 9, 2010 4:07 PM
The babysitting thing does surprise me -- are all teenagers rolling in dough these days? When I was a teen, practically everyone my age did at least a little bit of babysitting. I didn't do a lot but I did do some.
Cousin Dave at September 9, 2010 6:29 PM
And, we only went to family-friendly places,as one of the favorite things to do (if I didn't ward him off successfully) was to jam his chubby hand in someone's water glass to grab the ice cubes. Not something to do in an upscale restaurant :-D
And that right there is why I won't go to Chuck E Cheese. Upscale or not, that's ridiculous (I'm assuming you're talking about a stranger's glass, not someone at your table). Leave the kid at home or wait a couple more years, it's really not that big a hardship for the sake of not being obnoxious. That grin at the end really says it all. Not everyone thinks your kid is just the cutest thing EVAR.
Thag Jones at September 9, 2010 6:44 PM
Yes, Crella, please tell us that it was a family member's glass and not a stranger's! And while I think it's good that you tried to control your son's energy, I can't help but wonder why you thought it was worth it to bring him to restaurants. Didn't the whole experience suck for you? Didn't you feel far more stressed out than you would have just eating at home? When my kids were 2-3 years old, I never took them anyplace that didn't include play equipment. Even now, at ages 8 and 10, they have yet to go to any restaurant more upscale than IHOP or Pizza Hut.
KarenW at September 9, 2010 7:36 PM
*****Over on Double X a writer complained about the language of the sign itself. It wasn't a humorous or benign sign - it's very abrupt and straightforward. She thinks the sign itself is rude and that people should be less hostile. I think that's nit picky and annoying. Just some food for thought.*****
If you try to say it nicely, they won't get it. The only thing insensitve people understand is bluntness.
***** I almost never see a kid in a restaurant that late out here in the Rocky Mountains. *****
Where do you live? I'm in Ft. Colins, CO and it is breeder central. There IS no safe time of day or night. Trust me, I've seen toddlers in 9pm R-rated movies on a Tuesday night.
No place here is safe.
Ann at September 10, 2010 9:23 AM
Babysitters are hard to come by these bc every kid is over scheduled. Most of the responsible teens I know already have a full plate of activities. They really don't have time.
This is what kind of explains the Gen X thing. Whereas in the past, parents didn't spend their child rearing years dragging kids from one sporting event or after school activity to another, now you are a bad parent if your kid only does music or only plays regular league soccer. Kids in my neighborhood are used to being the "stars" of their family. Everything revolves around their schedule. Many don't even bother looking for work bc the coaches don't want them tired out or their meet schedule won't allow it.
We are raising a generation of kids who don't know anything about getting or keeping a job. It is sad really. I think it does more harm than good. Generally the excuse is this, "If Junior does really well he might get a sports scholarship to Nowhere U." Very unlikely these days. But like drug addicts persuing a hit, these parents chase their tales to get their kid that elusive scholarship.
sheepmommy at September 10, 2010 9:37 AM
Kids are "over-scheduled" because that's what gets you into a good college, and getting into a good college is what gets you a job after college. I know this board likes to complain that academia doesn't actually teach you anything worth knowing, but none of you must be applying for entry level jobs these days. My very capable friend (with plenty work history, throughout college and high school. You can't put baby-sitting on a resume.) needed a BA to get a receptionist job at a PT office for $12.00/hour. In the Bay Area, that meant working more than full-time, she still had to live at home. Now she's looking for admin assistant positions and competing with people who have Masters degrees - and the employers consider that a good thing.
But then again, every teenager I know baby-sits, and I made bank baby-sitting not too long ago. I don't know where y'all live but around here people find baby-sitters if they try. Especially if you are as lovely as Juliana and appreciate your sitter.
Sam at September 10, 2010 10:37 AM
Last night I went through a upper-end fast food burger joint. I mean it is cook to order with the condiments requested.
Two women with two kids were ahead of me and it actually took 10 minutes for them to order ... well, it was 6 minutes after I go annoyed enough to start timing them on the clock on the wall. The kids were running around climbing on the furnature and one of them would have to chase after them. Then one of them was trying to flirt with me too - or maybe just try and distract me as I was getting rather annoyed.
For comparison, I and the guy behind me were able to both order in under a minute.
The Former Banker at September 11, 2010 12:13 AM
Final note from Miss Manners:
"Miss Manners remembers when voluntary service
was something for which people volunteered, rather than were sentenced to do (as in high school graduation requirements). But a lot has happened since then, notably the attitude that it
is foolish to work for free. It is not only modern greed that created this, but a long-term general dismissal of the value of volunteer work because it was done by unsalaried women."
Bite me! Honest pay for honest work is not greed -- it is a common sense solution in our current world. Years ago there was an understood bartering system -- yes, I'll watch your kids for free, but you'll invite me over for several dinners, make me a dress, help me out on something. Without the community of the past -- the whole dynamic has now changed. It is now cash on the barrelhead.
Jim P. at September 11, 2010 4:18 PM
Excusing the fact that Michael Savage uses excess bombast, this video beginning at 2:15 fits in quite well with this discussion!
Robert W. (Vancouver) at September 11, 2010 4:34 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/09/09/my_new_favorite.html#comment-1753575">comment from Jim P.I generally like Miss Manners, but regarding this:
"It is not only modern greed that created this"
Greed isn't "modern" -- it's human nature.
And I create community everywhere I live. I'll be babysitting my neighbors' kids on Sunday night so they can go to sleep at their bedtime when she picks them up at the airport. I just picked up some shelves I thought she could use and carried them in from the alley. She just helped me format my chapters -- something I am uniquely bad at. (I write everything in single-spaced boldface Palatino.) And I tried to help talk her through coming up with an ending for her book. There's much more, but that's all I can think of from the past few days for the moment. (I won't bore you with all the stuff I do as a neighbor for my neighborhood.)
Amy Alkon at September 11, 2010 6:07 PM
"Babysitters are hard to come by these bc every kid is over scheduled. Most of the responsible teens I know already have a full plate of activities. They really don't have time."
Not necessarily. The problem I had with babysitting for me is that it's a sporadic and unreliable way of making money. That was fine for me when I was 12-14 since it was the only job I could do (I made $7-8 an hour and this was in the early 2000s) but once I turned 15 I got a "regular" job since I wanted a guaranteed source of income.
When I was 18 I started babysitting again because I found a website that allowed me to easily connect with parents and apply for jobs, and I was amazing at the going rate: $15-20 per hour! That easily doubles the price of any activity/date you do. I have no idea how parents afford it. If I had kids I'd probably hire an eighth grader to watch them-you can pay them less b/c their time is less valuable, and they're more likely to be committed to the job since they don't have other alternatives.
Shannon at September 12, 2010 3:38 PM
Leave a comment