That sounds pretty much how I was raised. I had to do my homework with no help except for occasionally when I asked, a rare event. I was expected to get good grades and I did, often with little effort because my grade level was always too easy for me until I got to high school and could take college classes. The only difference was that I did ballet and gymnastics so my time after school was very full, which meant I had to learn to manage my time to get everything done and still keep my grades up above a B average or not be allowed to participate. I was able to do this without prompting and demanding from parents.

We kew other families growing up that micromanaged their kids' lives and were constantly involved in every last aspect of their lives. They also like to imply that my mom raised us all wrong because we weren't raised like them. We are all very well-adjustef adults with careers and are self supporting. Most of these other kids didn't turn out as well as adults. Most still live at home, can't hold a job, and can't manage money. There's definitely something to be said for teaching your kids independence and personal responsibility from an early age.

I could have used a bit more supervision in the homework department. Not help, so much as someone making sure I did it. I formed bad habits in elementary school. I think if the groundwork had been lain then, it would have made a difference later on.

"Wrote my papers on the typewriter the night before they were do and got As."

Oops. Not this one! (G)

My parents were completely unable to even understand my homework, so no help there.

I did hope my dad would appreciate my creative writing, but instead he tried to be an editor...thus preparing me for other, similarly myopic ones in my future.

As a mom I try to strike a balance between giving my kids freedom and knowing when to be there. I do talk to my kids every day though. I have a close relationship with them and couldn't imagine never talking to them, but I do understand that there's a difference between conversation and smothering. There is tremendous pressure though today by society that I think contributes to the overparenting. Starting with advice when pregnant to play classical music to your womb all the way through to too many parenting books to choose from and then God forbid the kid has some form of accident and every parent is their to point a finger and say how they are on top of their kids so that would never happen to them.

The kids that are over organized with activities and never have free time seem to come from the parents that feel that more is better and that they are giving their child every advantage. I can always tell those kids when waiting in the doctor's office. My kids can sit quietly and wait. Those kids have 8 video games and mommy is usually blowing their nose for them while they play. Its sad but those moms really feel like they are being great parents and they're probably looking at me like I'm the worst.

My kids played outside were allowed to walk around the block, climbed trees, etc. I have a son who to this day gets into everything. He has broken feet, arms, had stitches several times, all because he was an active kid. I didn't neglect him and while I was upset when he broke his arm or needed stitches, I knew that he'd heal and would never consider not letting him ride his bike or climb that tree.

I personally don't care if some helicopter parent smothers her child. My problem is when that becomes so normal that a parent who doesn't is suspected of neglect.

While I agree that the current parenting trends are a bit much, I don't think that all children "ignored" the way Rosemond was are necessarily happier or better off for it. Some kids do need more interaction and supervision. Really, I think half the problem comes from the parent focusing on what kind of parent he/she wants to be (which is usually the kind she/he thinks the neighbors, teachers, etc. expect) instead of the kind that the individual kid needs. One of my third-grade boys would do fine with the sort of responsibility that Rosemond had from day one...he started laying out his clothes for the next day, all on his own, at age 3 and his desk is more organized than mine. The brother he shares a room, and once shared a uterus with is just as smart, twice as outgoing, but loses anything that isn't stapled to him and would forget to brush his teeth without the reminder tacked to the inside of his bedroom door (I'm sick of nagging and have delegated that job to little notes tacked around the house).

A side not about homework---you can't even get away with Mrs. Rosemond's approach to homework if you want to anymore. Kids come home the second week of kindergarten, before they learn to read, with homework that the parents must read the instructions for and supervise the 5-year-old in. The bulk of the homework for the first three years of school requires the parent to participate in it (ask your parents to quiz you on your spelling words; read this story to your parents before answering the following questions) or at least sign it, and do NOT get me started on the reading logs....I set out a time to do homework because it does not work to be bathing a baby or cooking dinner or preparing for my own work the next day and hear, "Mom the instructions say you HAVE to do this too..."

I think that today's style of parenting seems really daunting. Having kids means lots of sacrifices, including with your time, but with all of today's advances in technology and a world of convenience we should have more time, not less, to do what we like. Instead people are harried and helicopter-parenting. Of course there's no time to talk to your husband or go to yoga class when you have to stand over your kids and direct their every move.

It seems that hands-off parenting is better for kids and it is more appealing to me, as someone who is considering having a family in the next 5-10 years. Parenting the kids in a way that means I am allowed to shower and look nice and relax after work, instead of being the cruise director, makes the whole bit seem a bit more manageable.

I had a nice level of freedom growing up and didn't get a lot of homework help, either - but that's because if I was struggling with something, it was because it was pretty hard and then I went to extra-help with the math teacher. It was always math. I was a really easy kid to raise b/c I'm a bit of an introvert and an early riser. I don't like to cavort about all night long and go to tons of parties.

Jenny had a chance, you made me laugh because now that my kids are older, I had forgotten about the early homework. Parents had to sign logs every night stating we read a certain amount of time with our child. If it wasn't signed, the kid got penalized in school. Projects were numerous and nearly impossible. I often felt like the first few years, I had gone back to school with my kids. There was no way I could have said to my kids, "go to your room and do it on your own." They never would have made it out of first grade!!

And Gretchen, many of us think we'd do one thing before we have kids and find that we believe differently once we actually have them. I'm a pretty laid back and relaxed mom, but I do remember some of my theories of how I'd be as a mom before I had kids. I'm not saying that as a criticism of you, just as a reality that many of us as parents know to be true. For the most part my kids are pretty good kids but parenting seemed a lot easier as a concept, lol!

I had a lot more freedom, too, as a kid and my parents were pretty hands off unless I came to them for some help (which I did in middle school for math).

Kids get a lot more homework now and a lot sooner. I never stressed about taking the SAT; as a pretty good student, I knew I'd get into college (and no pressure about it being the "right" college, either.)

But that's not the issue. Parents want their kids to be super-kids but, yes, college is a lot more competitive now; guess they feel they have to get into the right preschool so the little darlings end up at Harvard or Yale.

Where, they'll still end up asking "Whipped cream on that Frappuccino?" because there are no jobs for them.

I have not been a helicopter parent, and I have let my kid have as much freedom as I had. (and we live in the same area that was fodder for Madeline Levine's "The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids.") He's grown into a fine young man. His peers? Not so much ...

I don't like the air of competition there seems to be among a lot of parents today. It may not be explicit, but it starts with "how long did you breastfeed" (God help you if you didn't at all!) and on it goes.

I actually had someone say, laughingly but still, "you just don't care," with regards to letting my 7-year-old first grader walk by herself to school toward the end of the school year when I felt she was responsible enough to do that. No, I let her do that because I do care and want her to grow into an independent adult at some point. It made her feel competent and since then she has matured a good bit when it comes to doing things for herself more (she was always a bit of a "do it for me" kind of kid, unlike my younger daughter).

A lot of parents make unnecessary work for themselves in the belief that every little thing they do shapes who their child will become. News flash: Barring abuse and actual neglect, your kids will be just fine without you scheduling every moment of their lives for them. In fact, they'd be better off that way.

If a kid is never given the space in which to be bored, how are they going to deal with the inevitable periods of boredom as an adult? It's an important lesson!

All I know is all this so called homework isn't helping them learn (at least in english and in California where I work) because over 1/2 of my incoming freshman class this year are required to take extra english classes to make up for their low SATs/inability to place on the english challenge exam. Scary.

Homework can be very intrusive. It shouldn't be necessary, particularly in the younger grades, but school time is very inefficient. There's a reason home schooled kids tend to run circles around government schooled kids. "Government" is really the operative word, isn't it. Don't expect efficiency from government!

Maybe I'm just a rebel without a clue, but I don't care for having the government tell me how to spend my time with my kids (i.e. cracking the whip to get them to do yet more pointless busy work after an entire day of doing same). We'll use our own time as we see fit, whether that's school work (sometimes they do want or need to do it) or just watching TV.

Amy,

I remember being bored and being told by my dad, "read a book!" At the time, my brother and I would groan, but now we do read books. lol I'm sure kids get more bored with electronic distractions than without them.

My parents were required to sign my homework to prove that they knew I had done it and had reviewed it. I often forgot to have them sign it when I was done, so I learned to forge my mother's signature pretty well.

My parents didn't intervene much when I did my homework. My mother did note that it took me twice as long when I had the TV on, but that was my call.

Neither of my parents got through high school, and they were in their 50s and 60s when I was in grade school, so they were pretty far removed from the school scene. They were not terribly helpful when they did try to help, and by the fourth grade there wasn't much more they could help me with anyway. Not because I was a supergenius or anything, but because they had long since purged that stuff.

I had a lot of freedom to do as I pleased academically as long as I did well, and I did. In hindsight, I appreciate this freedom a lot, but the downside is that I never had a whole lot of direction or exposure to new things.

Rosemond Rocks! I have read four of his books and read his article every Tuesday in the local paper.
My daughter has always been given commendable (which is the highest) rating in discipline, self control etc... in school- kindergarten through 2nd grade. She also gets great grades and I get many compliments on what a great kid she is. I owe some of this from reading Rosemonds books and articles.

I'm a fan of "Mad Men", and Betty had a great line on the show last season when her son came to her and said "I'm bored".

"Go bang your head against a wall."

I tell my two boys all the time, "I'm your mother, not your playmate." I too spent most of my childhood on my own, entertaining myself. It's a good skill to learn for a variety of reasons. Who wants their kid to grow up into a co-dependent needy whiner who has to be entertained every second of the day? Most of life is dull, so I say learn young what for you will make it a little less so and cultivate it over the years.

Kristin,

I definitely have no idea how I'd be as a mom. I am a bit panicky about stuff so I assume I'll be a little overly cautious with certain things - I can't see myself as a totally hands-off person. Since I am pretty affectionate and open about stuff I can't see having a child and not talking about homework and the like.

However. A lot of people who are parents aren't just overly cautious - they subscribe to parenting dogma found among some rather insane books and blogs. These things seem to be the current, most acceptable way to parent (based off my un-scientific observations of parents I know). I'm talking about knowing you're going to "wear your baby"; co-sleeping; homeschooling, etc. I know, right now, what my limits are as a person. I have a lot to teach a child but I don't feel confident in my ability to explain the finer points of geometry and algebra - since I haven't looked at the stuff in years. Lots of people decide to parent a certain way.

Again, I have no idea what I'll be like. I agree I'll probably change drastically once I have a kid. But I am pretty certain I won't fool myself into thinking I'll be able to work full time, have a kid and make homemade organic baby food in large quantities and freeze it. I also don't think that makes me a bad mother. My best friend is basically Mother Earth and she probably WILL do that. Maybe she'll sell me some of her fancy baby food and I'll go to kickboxing with my spare time.

Maybe I just want to set the bar low so if I do do something like cut my own diapers from cloth and make my own baby wipes it'll be a particularly potent accomplishment.

I'm not really liking this one: the kids' school now has a website where we log on, download, and monitor assignments, grades, etc. I feel like I'm cyberstalking my own kid.

I wonder when they'll install videocameras in the classrooms so we can watch our little darlings sit at their desks?

Gretchen, the most important thing is to not feel pressured by all those parents who think they "can" do everything. You do what you can. I wasn't able to afford certain things and it wouldn't have mattered anyway. I see no reason that a 7 year old should have a blackberry or some of the other ridiculous things. My kids never had to have the impossible toy to get at Christmas. I don't expect them to be perfect, just responsible productive members of society. So far they seem to be pretty good kids. When I was pregnant though and reading all of the "required" books, I thought so many things were important that I now realize were stupid. Even in Lamaze classes the lesson was not to take drugs during childbirth. Once labor hit, I screamed my head off until I got an epidural and demerol. I didn't breastfeed because my boobs were tremendous and hurt. So right off I committed the two worst things according to all the mommies groups. I quit those stupid groups and relied more on my isntincts and on other moms and dads I knew who I believed were raising good kids.

I'm talking about knowing you're going to "wear your baby"; co-sleeping; homeschooling, etc.

This is what I mean about the competition to be the "crunchiest" parent on the block - "I cook everything from scratch, no sugar including fruit juice, sew the family's clothes, make everyone's shoes, built the house we live in...." It's ridiculous. I had drug-free childbirths because the drugs seemed more scary than the pain and I wanted to see what it was like anyway; I carried my babies because it's a natural thing to do and it's actually more convenient out and about than a cumbersome stroller; I also breastfed for longer than most because I wanted to; I co-slept partly out of thinking it was a good idea but also because we live in a one bedroom apartment and I didn't have anywhere else to sleep; I planned on home schooling but started my oldest in on grade one because the task was beyond me as a single parent and they were driving me bananas AND I'm not sociable enough for those snooty ass HS groups (I still feel I've given them as good a start as I could)....

But, I don't judge what other people do too much. Not everyone can or wants to do these things and certainly no one should do it because they feel pressured or are trying to earn "crunchy points" with other moms. If someone else really did build their own house, good for them, but I'm not a builder. Snooty looks because your kid is eating a doughnut (even if the kid isn't fat) are just pointless. Why people worry so much about what everyone else is doing is beyond me at this point.

Kristen, I quit all the mommies groups too - what a bunch of sanctimonious a-holes.

Like many things, this is bad at the extremes, and always has been.

the big problem is always the "trend" in what the parenting rules are today... ever since there have been BOOKS about how you should parent instead of tribal knowledge of your community, this seems to change a lot. Essentially from Dr. Spock on. Some is good... counting your kids as a warning, putting them in timeout instead of whacking them and so forth, these are better, I think. But the whole worry that any little thing you do could potentially damage them forever!!!!11111.

I had theories about child raising before kids... somewhat informed by having kid sisters. But My children are nothing like them, AND coparenting with my ex? A lot of things that I do, she undoes. But when the kids have problems in school, THEN it's "go talk to your father." It's OK, on that front with the teenager, he seeks me out, because I don't tell him that his concerns don't matter. They matter to him. It's just that he needs a better sense of proportion, which I introduce him to. My daughter on the other hand, is the one that goes and does on her own, and you don't need to nag...

But. I know that there are dangers to that. You can take it for granted that you don't need to worry and miss stuff.

Long winded way of saying that a parent must decide for each child how much involvement they need... what all this amounts to actually paying attention to the kid, one size doesn't fit all.

I believe this is how "The Greatest Generation" was parented.

To Amy: Rosemond was born in 1947.

To Jenny Had A Chance: That sounds terrible - and completely unfair to those parents who don't speak English well or can't read well. Seems to me that if ALL parents stood up and demanded the old ways of education (what ARE the teachers' justifications, anyway?), things just might change. But in the meantime, when it comes to those schools that, in first grade, actually expect all the kids to have learned to read by age 4, some parents DO manage to take some pressure off the kids by holding them back a year.

As some here know, I enjoy Rosemond's books and columns a lot. I just wish he weren't so darn smug when it comes to the "need" for parents to be active Christians. (Thankfully, most of the time, he doesn't push that agenda.) Also, one thing I have never seen him discuss is how to teach kids to stand up to adults who are emotionally abusive - whether it's a teacher who really DOES pick on one kid or a bossy uncle who yells a lot.

I recommend giving out his books because even when a parent reads one and thinks "well, duh, this is all just common sense - why do I need
it" the answer is "because chances are you're going to be surrounded by parents who DON'T have common sense, so you'll need reminders so as
not to become brainwashed."

Some of my favorite quotes of his:

"Should you give kids reasons? Absolutely. Should you try TO reason with kids? Never!"

"I am not the anti-Spock."

(not verbatim) "Yes, I respect kids. That means I expect a lot of them. If I didn't, I'd be treating them as hopelessly retarded."

"The only punishment that 'fits the crime' is the one that stops the crime from recurring."

(On why parents should punish first and talk later): "Ask no questions and you'll be told no lies."

"Children cannot understand the adult point of view. Furthermore, they aren't really interested. If they were, they wouldn't keep
interrupting when we tried to explain our rules to them."

"I don't think parents should be involved with their children. They should be interested and ready to get involved, but involvement should be the exception, not the rule. A HUSBAND AND WIFE
SHOULD BE INVOLVED WITH EACH OTHER. And yes, I'm yelling, because all too many of today's parents need to be strapped to chairs and made to listen to a tape loop of the previous sentence blaring over a loudspeaker until they get it."

I consider him to be something of an old-fashioned liberal, though he'd probably hate that. That is, he doesn't believe in micromanaging teens or ordering them to go to college when they'd rather not, but he does believe in not trying to be "friends" with one's kids until they've left home for good - and that being a bit too strict is better than being a bit too lenient. (And, he doesn't believe in dividing chores by gender.)

I love a guy who can push for old-fashioned parenting and make Dr. Laura furious at the same time - he did just that in 2000 by saying that a
4-year-old boy should be revolving around his mother, not the other way around, even if that meant putting him in an after-school program so
the mother could work outside the home, childish complaints or not. (Up till then, I think DL just assumed Rosemond was one of her devoted
minions.)

In the 2005 book "Family Building: The Five Fundamentals of Effective Parenting," he included one of his columns on pages 159-161. In it, he tells of a letter from a reader who was disgusted with a letter she got from her child's teacher that urged parents to be constantly involved with their kids' homework. Rosemond agreed it was outrageous and wrote a letter that he suggested all parents send in return to such teachers. It said in part:

Dear Teacher: With all due respect, I don't do my child's homework. I will not even always help her with it even if she asks for help. Sometimes, I will simply tell her that she is smart enough to figure it out on her own.................Micromanagers do not bring out the best in people. They bring out the worst................One does not become a great pitcher if Mom is standing on the mound too, and one does not become a great student if Mom helps with homework every night, or even nearly so. But here's my counteroffer. If my child does
not do her homework or does not do the work she is capable of, let me know, and she will wish she had. Oh, fear not. I won't beat her or
starve her, but I will surely teach her that misbehavior results in undesirable consequences. By the way, if her story concerning what
happened is different from yours, I will believe you, even if I don't think you saw the big picture..............

(You can read the whole three pages in "Google Books." I simply searched in Google on "Rosemond," "pitcher," and "mound.")

I admit, I've never heard him talk about the possibility that kids have more homework than in the 1950s.

Of course, it's possible that it's a vicious circle. That is, the teachers might be persuaded to cut way back if ALL parents first did
what Rosemond suggested and THEN complained about the overload on the kid. Right now, the teachers are simply relying too much on the
parents to help.

Ughh, homework. You know, it probably wouldn't even be so bad if the kids actually learned something from it. My dd comes home with maybe 10 math problems a week. Because she is bright, she gets it done, aces a short quiz and them moves on. Here's the problem though, no reinforcement of what they just learned. By the time the teacher circles back to the topic or a related topic, the kids have forgotten what they were doing. Its crazy. We got a copy of the math curriculm and my dh, who is a math whiz, couldn't make sense out of the order in which topics are taught.

This is part of the problem with school and why so many otherwise bright students need remedial math in college. I have talked to other parents and all they care about is that their kid passed the quiz with an A. So that is good enough for them. What we found in talking to our dd, was that there were serious gaps in her knowledge. We now have to reinforce basic principles at home bc the school just isn't doing it. And, its not about getting into Harvard and Yale, its about making sure that she understands the basics before she is asked to perform the more advanced math. I think a lot parents will be in for a nasty surprise when middle school comes around.

But even with this extra help, my husband leaves dd her homework and she gets it done all by herself.. in her room... at her desk... no taking up the whole afternoon and the rest of the house to finish it. As Rosemond says, I am not in the homework business. I have a friend whose kid was homework resistant... took over the whole family with her "problems"... my friend took her out school bc she thought she had learning problems. I tried to tell her, "No, you have a discipline problem acting like a homework problem." Needless to say, she is now trapped at home, homeschooling a kid who still won't do the work. Go figure.

I think why kids DO need to be helped with homework now is because I don't think our educational system is doing its job.

People who went to school during the Greatest Generation were getting the educational tools required for learning new information. Once you have the basic process down, it will eliminate the bad habits when processing and learning new information.

When I speak to someone from that Greatest Generation, or even the Baby Boomer generation - they just THINK differently. And their thinking is much more clear, logical and reasoned. I am amazed. And I can't tell you how many times they look at me and say "What? You never learned that in school?"

The educational system today is failing our kids. If they don't have the structure at home to watch over the bad habits - they will continue as they learn and process more new information. It happened to me.

I think they've gone absolutely 'round the bend on the "homework" thing---my little nephew had homework to do at age six and seven, for the gods' sake, while I didn't even get assigned any under most circs until junior high!

Part of the problem with the whole "homework homework homework" fetish is that it forgets that children have other things to do, and that study at home is not necessarily conducive to learning. If I had a kid and that kid was studying, say, French or Spanish, I couldn't help her with her studies no matter how much I wanted to---I don't speak French or Spanish! Not to mention, not all houses have reference materials on hand, although the Internet can be a lifesaver.

@Jenny had a chance. augh, that sounds AWFUL. The whole signing-off-on-homework and requiring parents to sign off on studying logs (ie, to "prove" that I'd spent at least an hour reviewing for a test)was just starting to rev up when I was in school.

My parents basically gave me consent to forge their signatures whenever I needed to for that stuff because it was a damn nuisance.

I had one geometry teacher who was a big fan of parent signatures. I guess she somehow realized that my mom's signature looked slightly different every time I signed it and got suspicious. She called my mom. I was in the room and heard my mom's half of the conversation:

"Yes, I'm aware."

"Uh huh. I told her she could do that."

"Well, I have two daughters. I don't really have time for that. If my daughter needs help from me she'll ask, but she's already better at geometry than I ever was."

"Well, I saw on her report card that she's got an A in the class. So what's the problem?"

My mom is a class act. I probably would have had stronger words for a teacher who wanted to tell me how to spend my time.

Speaking of the Greatest Generation and the Boomer Generation (and as someone with no children): Do people still say "I want my kids to have it better than I did."? Because that might be part of the problem.

Without reading the comments, I want to say that kids these days need help with their homework since many times the concept being studied was _not_ gone over in class and is being worked on for the first time.

Yup, what Janet says too.

In class, they are learning about the environment and the latest government sanctioned propaganda:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/09/07/100175/bp-helped-in-californias-environmental.html

We had an entire quarter in 10th grade Oceanography devoted to....a hole in the ozone layer. During a field trip (to McDonalds) we were instructed by our teacher to bring plastic containers so we could make a stand against the landfill problems of the world which were in part causing the destruction of the ozone (??? To this day I am still mystified how he drew up that correlation). And sadly, I protested to the adults to the world this crap with religious conviction until I found out it was utter BS.

When McDonalds refused for health and safety reasons (I am surprised he still let us eat there) and after he argued with the manager for a good 5 minutes...he suggested we all boycott them in the future. Oy.

"And so, the variable most lacking in the lives of children who currently live in the Land of the Free is freedom itself."

Kids who grow up this dependent will become adults who cry for a nanny-state.

"Kids who grow up this dependent will become adults who cry for a nanny-state."

Does that include those who are home-schooled?

I see the current educational curriculum as a bigger obstacle to freedom than parents who have to moderate and help kids with their homework to ensure they are getting the basics - because schools are too busy grooming them to be gullible and dependent adults.

Times have changed. It is the parents responsibility to be sure that until their child reaches the age of 18 that they are receiving the best education available. Sadly, even those who get A's these days are probably still far less "educated" by the standards of those educated during the 30's, 40's, 50's etc.

Think about it...if they've dropped the bar so far down (grading on a curve for example) how do you know that your child is really LEARNING anything, and not just memorizing answers?

Parents need to be involved, albeit at their own discretion, but they are no longer (in my opinion) able to rely solely on the school to provide them with the basics in education.

I would love to be a more hands-off parent. I have one son who plays very well by himself for hours on end. I would love to send him outside, but the cars whiz down the street as if it were a highway, and there are no adults (or kids) outside playing. When I was growing up, tons of kids were outside, you'd go outside, meet some friends and be home by dark (when the lights came on, because "dark" had its own interpretation). If I sent him outside alone, he'd just be out there by himself.

I'm not looking forward to the later grades (he's in first now). He has a reading log and instructions for the parents. I make him read it all and tell me if there is actually something that I NEED to do. Otherwise, I supervise while I'm making dinner or whatnot. When I review it, I make sure it's legible, help HIM sound out spellings of words that are incorrect and make sure he actually completely what the directions say. He has an awful habit of assuming he knows what the directions say and complete it incorrectly.

I don't baby him and I expect him to give it his best effort. To reinforce what he learns, since it only takes about 5 minutes for him to complete his homework, he either reads a book, or does work in a workbook for about 10-20 minutes. I'm not worried about him excelling in class, but he has a lot of energy and I hope to be able to get him to concentrate for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

From what I'm told, I will be expected to "do" his projects for him because other parents will be doing their child's. I have no desire to repeat any grade - didn't then, don't now. He will be doing his own animal, volcano or whatever. And he will learn that his best efforts is what counts.

I like that bit about not trying to reason with kids. Some kids are excellent at logic and debate. When you're trying to enforce rules, it's not a good time to let them do this to you.

I know as a kid, I did best when people expected me to do well and didn't nag or worry too much about it. I did know how to ask for help when I needed it.

I don't think I almost ever had homework until 7th grade, where I was in some advanced classes with teachers that seemed to think that advanced classes meant overworking the kids.

For the kids to have to be taught by the parents, that makes me think the teachers aren't doing their jobs.

"I see the current educational curriculum as a bigger obstacle to freedom than parents who have to moderate and help kids with their homework to ensure they are getting the basics - because schools are too busy grooming them to be gullible and dependent adults."

Absolutely, Feebie. The public education system is so utterly infested with leftism that it is no longer possible to fix it. It's done for. Terminal. If we defunded the entire thing tomorrow, fired all the employees and tore down all the buildings and left people to figure out how to educate themselves, the country would not be significantly worse off. A significant portion of students who graduate from college have, since the first grade, been mal-educated -- they've been taught a bunch of stuff that is provably false, and the truth has been withheld from them. They'd be better off if they had not gone to school at all.

I home-school. My kids are handed their assignments in the morning and told what I expect of them. Almost all of my children are dyslexic. This means I have a 6 year old who can read just fine and loves numbers but sometimes writes everything backwards. Like put it in a mirror to read it backwards. I have a daughter who is going to be 11, loves art, loves the structure of the English language, loves verb tenses and proper nouns but can't tell p from q from d from b. Her mind sees everything as art and these shapes are all the same thing to her. We have to talk about everything. We do write stuff down and I work with her using a specialized program. But until she gets through that I am still going to teach her everything as if she can read well.

Her sister, who just turned 16, was the same way. Didn't read till she was 10, not from lack of effort I promise you, but is now writing and drawing her own Manga comics strips. And we can't pull her out of her books and drawing. She just got a huge stack of Warrior books(about feral cats) Monday on her birthday and I have seen her face maybe 5 times since then.

Point being, everyone keeps pressuring me to make my 11yo read, cause its magic ya know, and I keep telling them to leave her alone.. She will be just fine. People have this weird need to put kids on a schedule.

My friends have these stupid baby Einstein things(books, toys, light up doodads) that they are certain will make their child brilliant. They are all shocked when I tell them that Einstein was profoundly dyslexic and possibly mildly autistic. He didn't read till he was nearly 9 and it took him longer than that to read proficiently. He was considered unteachable and left out of school. A friend of his fathers gave him the math books and that was all he did. He is quoted as saying that he wasn't smarter than others he just stayed with a problem longer. Something he was able to do because he didn't have an overpaid government nanny, and lets not kid ourselves-this is what teachers are now, telling to stop doing math that it was time to do something else.. If He had lived in modern times he would just be another kids stuck in a special ed class with drugged up ADD kids.

I wonder how many Einsteins we lost to Ritalin and micromanaging?

Hell I wonder how many of those kids with all the teaching trinkets wont be able to sit still long enough to solve a problem..

For the kids to have to be taught by the parents, that makes me think the teachers aren't doing their jobs.

I think it's parents' job to see to their kids' education, whether that means supplementing what the school isn't teaching, homeschooling or just backing out of the way.

We can't have it both ways. If schools are doing their jobs, then parents need to back off. If schools aren't, then parents need to be the primary educators (or find someone else who will be). It seems unfair to mock parents for being overly involved in the same breath in which we criticize schools for being insufficient.

We can't have it both ways. If schools are doing their jobs, then parents need to back off. If schools aren't, then parents need to be the primary educators (or find someone else who will be). It seems unfair to mock parents for being overly involved in the same breath in which we criticize schools for being insufficient.

Posted by: MonicaP
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Well, as Rosemond once said, in effect, parents are expected to teach kids the three Rs and teachers are expected to teach kids manners and morals, so it would seem pretty clear that a trade embargo is in order.

So if the schools "aren't doing their jobs," maybe it's because parents are dumping too many of the wrong jobs on them for teachers to have time to do the RIGHT jobs.

Being the primary educator doesn't mean "doing for" though. Teachers don't do kids' schoolwork for them.

I have to sit and listen to my kids read for 20 mins a night. That's one hour out of my day, listening to kids who are reading waaaay above their peers level. I can't just tell them to go read, no, I have to listen. And then sign the log, with the name/pages they read. It's asinine.

I refuse to do my kids projects for them. Which means in kinder, when they put their research posters on the wall, mine looked like they were done by kindergardeners, and the others looked like they were done by adults. Pretty pathetic that moms have to up their own self esteem by doing a kindergarten project.

My 16 year old son has an ALE (alternative learning experience) for his math class this year. Basically, he gets one two hour session per week with a school math teacher and is expected (and required) to do at least 5 hours of work at home per week with the sent home materials. I saw the little log sheet last night and I had to sign it saying I would enforce the home study time.

I signed it and told my son if he maintains a B or better I don't give a flying flip what he fills out on his log sheet.