Need More Problems
Yours, that is -- for my next book, on manners for the 20 to 40 audience. What I'm looking for are your "What do you do when...?" questions on a number of topics.
Today's topics? First, Ground Transportation:
Manners on the road, in the parking lot, and on public transportation, and anecdotes about the badly behaved -- like those men on the subway who spread their knees way out, squeezing those on either side...like they're just so HUGE that they can't possibly keep their legs together. Right. Ron Jeremy doesn't sit that way.
Second category I need your questions on, Shopping (in malls, strip malls, street fairs, the grocery store, the farmer's market, and beyond). A sample question:
Is it okay to go to a store to check out a product then buy it cheap online?
And last, I need your questions about Travel, from polite couch surfing to vacations in foreign places.
Of course, if you need love advice, I need those questions, too, and will answer them now. In fact, I need good love/dating/sex/relationship questions now for my column. But, send those to adviceamy at A O L dot com; don't post them here.







"Is it okay to go to a store to check out a product then buy it cheap online?"
Of course it is. That's a tried and true tactic of shoppers, even before there was an internet. Heck, there was a bit from Laverne and Shirley that touched on it decades ago. The girls go to an upper class store, and Shirley explains, "We look around, we see what's new and trendy, and then we go to Woolworth's and buy the same thing".
Now if you take up a fair amount of a salesperson's time, that's potentially another matter. If they work on commission, you're potentially eating into their pay; if they're salaried it's no skin off the proverbial nose. Many still hold to the line from A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum and say "It's rude not to buy SOMEthing", but that's not always so, especially if you're not taking up anyone's time.
Let's spin the question around. Is it rude for the salesperson to decide you're "browsers not shoppers" and not bother to spend much time with you? Even if you DON'T plan to buy anything? A good salesman sees a potential sale in every customer, but is it fair (or dare I say prejudicial) to decide between helping the lady in the mink as opposed to the guy in jeans?
They don't always guess right. I recall a story from a commenter about a somewhat disheveled lady regularly visiting the silverware section of a hoity-toity store and getting varied levels of help...until the day she came in with her first-round NFL draft pick son and picked thousands of dollars of flatware.
Vinnie Bartilucci at October 4, 2010 7:08 AM
Amy, you travel to France and elsewhere. While it's an old topic, I do hope that you'll still work something in for American's travelling abroad. Because it's relatively unusual, some Americans are remarkably clueless.
I mentioned elsewhere the American woman speaking louder and louder in the French candy shop - sure that, with sufficient volume, the poor salesgirl would suddenly understand plain English. I have seen Americans completely mystified when they were unable to pay for items in US dollars. While these may not represent the majority of American travellers, they are the examples that stick in one's mind...
I would love to see more Americans travel - the world looks a lot different from outside the USA.
bradley13 at October 4, 2010 7:30 AM
1) Is it rude to assume a woman is pregnant when trying to decide whether to offer your seat? I've never guessed incorrectly, as far as I know, but I can easily see pissing someone off by assuming she's pregnant when she's just fat.
2) Has it become poor manners to not offer your seat to a child on public transportation? I remember when I was a kid, my parents would tell me to get up and let an adult sit down. Now I see adults give up their seats for kids a lot. Not sure when that changed.
MonicaP at October 4, 2010 7:40 AM
bradley13. The term I like is is called "Ugly American or "Ugly "fill in country"". Believe me I have seen it all. Actually that gets to the first rule I tell expats is "Korea is not" America, China, back home, freaking sex crazy as Japan, MASH (TV show), backward. It is it's own country which has it's own strange customs. So if things do not go your way do not being fucking surprised.
Thru I will say this much is if I am an international traveler and I go to a major tourist spot or hotel (3 star or higher) and they do not have a idea I would be pissed as that is it duty to be ready for said customers.
And a question what do you do when you can not pay. For example let's say I thought that I had that 20 for the taxi but I did not. Do I leave my some ID come back later and pay?
John Paulson at October 4, 2010 7:48 AM
It is unethical to go check out the merchandise in a store that is paying for their building, taxes, insurance, employees and display items and then buy online.
If everyone did this, do you think local merchants could stay in business?
I am not a retailer, and I do shop online, usually for things I cannot buy locally. If I use a store's services, I will pay for them.
MarkD at October 4, 2010 8:04 AM
So would it also be unethical to go from store to store looking for the best price? Why should I pay more money for something just because it happened to be at the first store I went into?
If a B&M store gives me the best deal, with good service, I'll buy it there. If not, I'll go somewhere else, or online.
B&M stores have two advantages over online shopping: The ability to sway customers with excellent customer service and the ability to grant instant gratification. It's not price, since I can get just about anything except groceries cheaper online. So they have to convince me that their service and the ability to get it now outweigh the better price I'd get online.
MonicaP at October 4, 2010 8:13 AM
Is it unethical to check something out online and then go to a store and buy it onsale? After all, the web site costs money to develop and maintain.
I have bought laptops online and in store. My last two were bought at Costco because the price was good and they offer a two year warranty and a 90 day return. Buying a laptop in many stores or online means I would have to ship it somewhere for repairs. I had one laptop that gave me lots of problems, so I returned it after 88 days and got a similar one.
I have also gone into a store to research and ended up buying an unboxed, returned DVD player that was cheaper than the online price.
I take a winter vacation each year, usually to Mexico. I check out the online prices to see what effect fuel prices and currency exchange has had and then go to my travel agent to book. I like the security of having someone to call if something goes wrong. I don't mind paying a little extra for that service.
Steamer at October 4, 2010 8:37 AM
Travel question: Do you tip at an all incluse resort? The brochure says that tips are included, but I can't imagine having a waiter provide good service or a maid clean my room without leaving the equivalent of a few dollars in pesos.
Steamer at October 4, 2010 8:53 AM
So MarkD, you never enter a store without buying something? What if they don't have what you want? Wrong size? Just too darned expensive? That's ridiculous. I walk our outlet mall about every other week. Some of the stores there have online stores as well. Sometimes I buy in the store, sometimes online. Depends where it's cheapest. Sometimes, I buy something merely because I see it, like it, and the price is good. Sometimes, I buy nothing. I am under no obligation to buy merely for entering.
I've worked commission, so I wouldn't take 2 hours grilling someone on every camera feature, then buy elsewhere, but that is a risk you take when working retail sales.
momof4 at October 4, 2010 9:57 AM
Steamer, tipping will never hurt you. Esp if they do a great job. I wouldn't feel obligated to though.
momof4 at October 4, 2010 9:58 AM
I work in retail, selling luxury products on commission. I give everyone who walks in the store five minutes of my undivided attention as a test run. It's usually quite easy to distinguish those who are really 'just looking' from those who are looking for something. I don't mind writing down identifiers for people to look elsewhere if they're polite and quick, but what I really don't like is when people take up a significant amount of my time and try on everything in the store, want my input and full attention and nothing comes of it. I've had people monopolize my time for upwards of an hour, leading me to miss out on numerous other potential customers and then walk away. I really don't mind people not buying from me - the commission isn't enough to make me push. I'll even direct them to other stores if I know they have what they're looking for. I really don't mind being helpful and genuine, because what people don't like they will return, and they take back that commission when you get a return.
I also dislike when I've helped people for a considerable amount of time, narrowed their decision down to one thing, had them walk off to 'think about it' and then have them come back an hour later with a big smile and a bag from another store, saying "Look, I bought it!" Wow, thanks, not from me. Buy them somewhere else, fine, but don't come back and shove it in my face. I'm not your friend, I'm not impressed with the business you gave to another store when I was the one who helped you.
mmaire at October 4, 2010 10:14 AM
oooh, heres a big pet peeve... people who go into the grocery store [or even target] and grab a food item and eat it in the store while they are shopping. I've seen many actually pay using the empty wrapper, so it isn't like they are planning on stealing. This happens a ton for people with kids too. just follow the shopping cart trailing the cookie crumbs to watch it.
SwissArmyD at October 4, 2010 10:22 AM
SwissArmyD as to your petpeeve if it is a single drink or a chocolate bar I understand but if the customer is asking to pay for a empty chicken container then yes I think you have something to complain about!
John Paulson at October 4, 2010 10:52 AM
@ Steamer. Are you talking about places like Sandals? Part of their "schtick" is that you can put your wallet in the safe in your room at the beginning of your stay and never take it out. So, given that they make a HUGE point about that, I'd say it's OK not to tip bartenders, servers at restaurants, etc. I agree, it takes some getting used to. At the same time, I know Sandals hires locals and pays them almost nothing. So, we made sure to tip anyone who went above and beyond (the waiter who walked across the beach to get chocolate cake for my uncle b/c the restaurant we were at didn't have it on the menu was an example). In my experience there, most of the workers were trained to flat-out refuse tips. But the ones who went the extra mile did accept them. We also left money in the hotel room for the housekeeping staff at the end of our stay.
sofar at October 4, 2010 11:04 AM
I think it would be good to remind travelers that, for them, their visit to a new city is a vacation. But they need to be aware of the fact that people live there and work there.
When I lived in D.C., I LOVED the fact that people from all over would come and visit my city. And tourists were generally a LOT nicer than the jerks who lived there. But there were a few things that bothered me.
Namely, lack of awareness while on public transit:
~ Before your trip, do a Google search for "[destination] mass transit etiquette," or similar. You will find local message boards/blogs with TONS of comments about what pisses the locals off most about tourists. With a few exceptions (London and, I believe, Japan), when on the escalators, STAND RIGHT and WALK LEFT. Watch the locals and do as they do. I made this mistake at first, too, but carefully observing will show you patterns of behavior that are actually strictly-enforced codes of local etiquette.
~One step off the train (while still in front of the doors) is NOT the right time to stop in your tracks and look at your map/squint in the darkness to figure out which way to go. Pick a direction and just WALK, briskly if possible. Find a wall out of the way and THEN take your time in figuring out where to go.
~If you have small kids, brief them in advance about what's going to happen. Subways can be scary and overwhelming to kids, and trying to force them into and out of a train while they're dragging their feet is not pleasant for you or your fellow passengers. I used to appreciate it when parents would keep a running count-down of how many stops are left and repeatedly remind the kids what's expected of them once they get there: "Which is our stop? Right, Woodley Park/ Adams Morgan. What are we going to do when we get there? We are going to hold tight to mommy's hand, make sure we have all our stuff, keep moving, and pay attention."
sofar at October 4, 2010 12:00 PM
I've brought this up before, but I'll phrase it as a question...
What do you do when you are standing in line at the bank/store/shop and right in the middle of paying for your items, or right in the middle of asking a sales person a question, they stop you mid-sentance to answer a ringing phone?
I am there in the flesh, and to me, that should trump phone calls. You inconvenience me (by making me wait, sometimes for several minutes) so that you can talk to someone who could have been helped by someone else, or yourself when you checked your voicemail later.
Grrr.
UW Girl at October 4, 2010 12:55 PM
"@ Steamer. Are you talking about places like Sandals?"
I haven't been to a Sandals, but I'm thinking of any all-inclusive resort. The brochures do say things like leave your wallet in the safe, but I doubt the workers get much more than the minimum for that area. The hotel workers won't talk about tips, but I spoke to a tour guide who told me the hotel workers were paid very little and needed the tips. I always tip because the few dollars mean so much more to them than to me.
I've observed other tourists not tipping and still getting good service. I do notice that the waiters keep an eye on who is coming in to the restaurant and they will go up to some people and guide them to their section while letting others pick their table. In February, I'll make a point of noticing who the waiters are anxious to have in their section and see if I can confirm that they are tippers.
Steamer at October 4, 2010 1:31 PM
Shopping:
I have a friend who saves her receipts, and will take the receipt back to the store when an item she bought goes on sale, "return" the item, and then "buy" it again at the sale price. She says she's just taking advantage of the store's return policy and if they didn't intend for that to happen, they should change the policy.
Transportation:
Should you leave behind your newspaper? This would apply anywhere - bus, cafe, etc. Should you fold it nicely and leave it on your table/seat for someone else who might be interested, or is that akin to littering?
Travel:
When staying at a B&B, how do you politely decline breakfast if your hosts insist?
What do you do if the couple next door is having really loud sex for a really long time?
If you're a guest in someone's home, should you refrain from having sex with your partner?
When staying at a hotel, is there a surefire way to keep housekeeping from knocking on your door at 8 am even though you have the "Do Not Disturb" sign out? If you have it out until after housekeeping has finished your floor, should you expect that you will not receive housekeeping services that day?
Should you give a hotel the opportunity to correct the things you're unhappy with before leaving a less than glowing review on a travel website?
When staying at a foreign hotel, how do you know whether you're supposed to turn your key in at the front desk when you leave the hotel for the day or take it with you, especially if there is a language barrier?
Kate at October 4, 2010 1:57 PM
I stuck this on the end of the last request for issues, but it fits nicely here. Why do people feel it's okay to throw money at a cashier? Be kind, considerate, respectful enough to place it in their hand. Tossing all of your payment on the counter comes across as contemptuous for the business transaction.
Juliana at October 4, 2010 1:57 PM
Thanks -- I really, really appreciate these (I'm just on deadline, so I'm not able to comment much today). But, these are super helpful. Please keep 'em coming if you have more.
Amy Alkon at October 4, 2010 2:03 PM
I understand the importance of supporting local businesses (not chains that happen to be in your neighborhood!) very well.
But if I simply can't find a book and they can't order it for me, yes, I'll go online.
(I once suggested to a used-books store that they could allow customers to order specific rare books - and charge a fee. I haven't heard back. *I* wouldn't mind paying the fee, since I sell them books for credit anyway, so I could just use my credit slips to pay the extra fee!)
lenona at October 4, 2010 2:28 PM
What do you do when you are standing in line at the bank/store/shop and right in the middle of paying for your items, or right in the middle of asking a sales person a question, they stop you mid-sentance to answer a ringing phone? - UW Girl
That used to happen to me quite often, and I'd get more than irritated. So, I took steps to not get irritated when it happened.
Now? I immediately - immediately - leave the merchandise on the counter and/or walk out the door.
Now, not if they give me a nod of recognition and put the caller on hold - but that's not what we're talking about, are we?
Seriously.
Walk. Out.
If the customer at the end of that line is more important than the one standing directly in front of them, I - and you - can certainly find a store and/or clerk where that isn't the case.
jimg at October 4, 2010 3:14 PM
@sofar - as a resident of the greater DC area, I use Metro from time to time and can add a few points to yours:
- Walking up to a complete stranger (me) and asking "How do I get to (insert Metro station here)," when there are large maps posted everywhere indicating where each and every Metro station is located.
- Bringing a double-wide stroller onto the train that, when brought onto or off a Metro car, blocks the whole way and keeps others from getting inside or out of the car.
- Newspaper readers who, after reading their newspaper, leave their papers scattered all over the Metro cars. Every Metro station has a newspaper recycling bin, so one has to be really lazy if they can't make an effort to carry the paper out of the train before throwing it away.
Marc at October 4, 2010 4:28 PM
I don't like to take up a salesperson's time if I know I'm just looking, so I'll always tell them that. And, apparently I look honest, because a lot of them don't waste their time. I don't like time-wasters in my job, so why would they like it any better?
The loud sex in a hotel thing can be an issue. When my mother was going through the more acute phase of her illness, I treated myself to a spa day/night at a very expensive local hotel. I did this because I was having trouble sleeping at her house!
So you can imagine what it was like to be kept up from around 1 - 3 am by people who were moaning and groaning their way through the wee hours. I got up and slammed the door, really hard, a few times and they would quieten down for a minute or two and then start all over again. I told the management the next day, hoping to get a break on the price of the room, but no such luck.
Re: offering your subway seat to a pregnant woman. I did this once and the way the woman looked at me made me wonder if I'd gotten it wrong! Yikes. I thought about how that would have made me feel--especially the public nature of the offer--and decided that I would only do it when the woman was obviously pregnant.
But, now that I'm creeping up in years, I keep my seat. I figure I've given my seat up often enough in the past that I can just stay put now and let someone younger do the offering.
I do about 80% of my shopping online. I use Sears.ca and I love it. I hate malls, so this is a real breeze for me. I know what name brands I like, what size I take in them, etc., so it's great. I also like to go to their overstocks and clearance pages. Tons of great values and all delivered right to my door. What could get better than that?
ie at October 4, 2010 5:16 PM
I don't like to take up a salesperson's time if I know I'm just looking, so I'll always tell them that. And, apparently I look honest, because a lot of them don't waste their time. I don't like time-wasters in my job, so why would they like it any better?
The loud sex in a hotel thing can be an issue. When my mother was going through the more acute phase of her illness, I treated myself to a spa day/night at a very expensive local hotel. I did this because I was having trouble sleeping at her house!
So you can imagine what it was like to be kept up from around 1 - 3 am by people who were moaning and groaning their way through the wee hours. I got up and slammed the door, really hard, a few times and they would quieten down for a minute or two and then start all over again. I told the management the next day, hoping to get a break on the price of the room, but no such luck.
Re: offering your subway seat to a pregnant woman. I did this once and the way the woman looked at me made me wonder if I'd gotten it wrong! Yikes. I thought about how that would have made me feel--especially the public nature of the offer--and decided that I would only do it when the woman was obviously pregnant.
But, now that I'm creeping up in years, I keep my seat. I figure I've given my seat up often enough in the past that I can just stay put now and let someone younger do the offering.
I do about 80% of my shopping online. I use Sears.ca and I love it. I hate malls, so this is a real breeze for me. I know what name brands I like, what size I take in them, etc., so it's great. I also like to go to their overstocks and clearance pages. Tons of great values and all delivered right to my door. What could get better than that?
ie at October 4, 2010 5:16 PM
My apologies for the double post up there. I swear I only hit the button once!
But I have a question...when is it polite to tell someone that they have something on their face? Don't laugh, but I once told a colleague that he had mayonnaise in the corner of his mouth (he had obviously been chowing down on a sandwich) and g-ddamn if it didn't change our relationship forever. (And for the worse, I mean).
So, when is it polite to say, "hey...little spinach there in between your front teeth," or to gesture in a way that they get that there's something wrong with their face--like there's a pizza stuck on it! LOL...no, but really, when is it okay? Any ideas?
ie at October 4, 2010 5:38 PM
What do you do if the couple next door is having really loud sex for a really long time?
Ask if you can watch since you wont be getting any sleep - that usually kills the mood, and if it doesnt at least you'll have fun(assuming they arent homley)
If you're a guest in someone's home, should you refrain from having sex with your partner?
Depends on how long you are staying and how old thier kids are
lujlp at October 4, 2010 6:13 PM
I stuck this on the end of the last request for issues, but it fits nicely here. Why do people feel it's okay to throw money at a cashier? Be kind, considerate, respectful enough to place it in their hand. Tossing all of your payment on the counter comes across as contemptuous for the business transaction. -- Juliana
In many places, putting money down on the counter is the polite thing to do. In Japan, they will even usually have a special little tray or basket to receive the money. I generally prefer it -- just today a bunch of coins dropped when the hand-off was fumbled. Unless people are slamming down the money or actually throwing the money at the cashier, it does seem at all contemptuous to me.
The Former Banker at October 4, 2010 7:49 PM
When traveling in Third World countries, how do you handle beggars, swarms of child beggars in particular? I agree entirely with the sentiments expressed here, that giving never does anything other than perpetuate begging:
http://www.women-on-the-road.com/street-beggars.html
Martin at October 4, 2010 9:15 PM
"Is it okay to go to a store to check out a product then buy it cheap online?"
As long as you don't take up the sales people's time. If you take up their time, you're almost obligated to buy something, if reasonably reasonable.
One thing, going to a new place and then complaining about it all the time isn't a good way to make friends. I know someone who moved to a new place and did this and is now moving again. Yeah, the weather isn't perfect here, but griping about it constantly gets really annoying.
KrisL at October 4, 2010 9:35 PM
"I told the management the next day, hoping to get a break on the price of the room, but no such luck."
You need to give the hotel a chance to rectify the problem. If you had called them the night before and the noise continued, you may have received a discount. Hotels keep log books of such things so the next shift at the front desk knows what has been happening.
It's kind of like eating a steak and then complaining that it wasn't cooked properly and asking for a discount
Steamer at October 5, 2010 8:08 AM
Manners on the road - I'd really, really like to have drivers reminded that the normal "rules of the road" exist for a reason and that it is not, in fact, courteous of them to ignore those rules.
For instance, if two lanes are merging onto an on-ramp, and one of those two lanes has a yield sign, it is NOT courteous for someone in the non-yielding lane to come to a complete stop and let out the person at the head of the "yield" lane. There is a reason why traffic flow was designed that way. Just keep going, don't get rear-ended by the driver behind you who didn't expect you to stop, and the folks in the "yield" lane will get a chance to go when the traffic light changes.
If you're driving down the road with no reason to stop (not a line of traffic, for example), and someone's waiting to turn out onto the road, please don't just stop to waive them out. The drivers behind you deserve a bit of courtesy, too.
Another example is at 4-way stops. When it's your turn, GO. Don't sit there and waive at someone else to go. Trying to motion someone else on just messes up the traffic flow, causes confusion, and makes a collision more likely.
jen at October 5, 2010 9:05 AM
For public transit:
What do you do when someone has the volume up so high on their music that the entire bus is listening along with them, even though they are wearing headphones? How is the answer different if they are right next to you vs. 6 rows back?
What do you do when there are plenty of seats on the bus and someone insists on standing in the aisle, getting in the way of everyone who wants to get on/off?
How do you discourage a stranger who won't stop trying to start a conversation despite the fact that your book is out and you are clearly trying to read?
And one roommate question, since I missed that post when it was new:
What do you do when your roommate is neglecting their pets and you are unable/uninterested in just assuming their care yourself, but you are concerned about the animal's well being?
serinpdx at October 6, 2010 2:47 PM
Thank you all so much for all of these -- sorry I can't answer them all, but many of them will make it into the book.
Amy Alkon at October 6, 2010 3:01 PM
I was on the T in Boston, when a man in his 20s was blasting his I-Pod and singing along. It was one of those rap songs full of swearing and stuff. I asked him as politely as I could if he would mind turning it down, and he glared at me and snapped, "What's the problem?" I said the music was a bit loud, and he snapped, "So, what's the problem" I asked if he would turn it down, and snapped, "NO!"
The other riders gave me a sympathetic look and we collectively shook our heads.
What DO you do when people are blaring music on the T/Metro/Ell/Whatever?
NicoleK at October 6, 2010 11:42 PM
Monica, at the risk of sounding spoiled and entitled, I was pretty annoyed this summer when people didn't offer me their seats on the T. I'm sure they were all debating the question "Is she pregnant or does she just have a big belly", because up until the 8th month or so, it was hard to tell if it was pudge or baby (I'm rather buxom, so until the stomach bypassed my other parts, it was hard to tell).
So I did things like obviously rubbing my belly. Then a young man would sometimes offer. Other times, I stood and just dealt with it.
I'd say give up your seat if you're in doubt, and if the person looks confused you can say they looked tired.
NicoleK at October 6, 2010 11:46 PM
Martin, the beggar thing is hard, and it varies so much from country to country... I'd say depends on the type of beggar. If its a street musician, I give a little money, and if its kids selling something, then if its something I like I might buy it but of course you can't do that for every one, and when you get swarmed...
In America, I usually smile, and say "Sorry not today", but in other countries if you smile at them they follow you, so depending where you are, sometimes you have to ignore them even if it breaks your heart.
When I was in the West Bank, I wore a headscarf and looked more like a local (I'm a short olive-skinned brunette) so was less of a target. If you can blend in to any extent, it helps.
NicoleK at October 6, 2010 11:54 PM
"It is unethical to go check out the merchandise in a store that is paying for their building, taxes, insurance, employees and display items and then buy online."
I see nothing wrong with looking around, if you don't take up a salesperson's time, However,
If the salesperson is asked to share his/her expertise and knowledge, and asked for recommendations, the merchandise should be bought there. We have a wonderful, small independent bookstore in my town. I was in the children's section while a well-dressed, affluent looking woman gave the clerk the 3rd degree about appropriate and "popular" books for children. After taking up at least 30 minutes, she thanked the clerk and told her she would buy them at B & N. ??? I didn't hear the entire exchange, but the stunned clerk filled me in after the B----h left!
Maybe she knew she wouldn't get the same personal touch in a chain?!?
siobhan at October 7, 2010 1:00 PM
"When traveling in Third World countries, how do you handle beggars, swarms of child beggars in particular?"
From an Army Major recently returned from his third tour - In Iraq, you keep them at a distance and point at another unit that "has candy", some distance away from your main work, because the insurgents will kill them all to get an American while he's looking at the children.
And if you don't have enough for everybody, it will be your fault.
Radwaste at October 9, 2010 4:57 AM
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