Many of their parents paid taxes. Maybe that tax money should be repaid to them.

The fact they're hearing the case doesn't mean they'll rule correctly. Five bucks says the Cal Sup Ct rules in favor of the illegals. Five more bucks says the Ninth Circuit upholds this ruling on any appeal. The only recourse will be the US Supreme Court, and that is becoming more problematic, the more "wise Latinas" and "empathetic" lefty academics get appointed to that court.

I believe it will take actual bankruptcy in a number of jurisdictions to convince anyone in charge that it's probably a bad idea to foot the bill for illegals. And even then, I'm not at all sure they'll come around.

Many of their parents paid taxes. Maybe that tax money should be repaid to them.

I break into your house, make myself at home, and tell you that I will be staying indefinitely. Are you happier about this if I occasionally wash the dishes? If the police finally come and kick me out, should I be repaid for the time I spent dishwashing?

Which part of the word "illegal" is so hard for people to understand?

"Many of their parents paid taxes. Maybe that tax money should be repaid to them."

Damn few. Our old neighborhood has a very high illegal population. They worked for cash, yes they DID get benefits (WIC I know for a fact, probably more), bought used items for clothing, tools, etc (no tax there). Yes, they probably did pay tax on the $50k pick-ups and SUV's. Precious little past that.

SO no, idiot, that tax money should not be repaid them. It should go to pay for the cost of hunting their ass down and tossing them over the border. WHatever happened to not being able to profit from a crime? Their HS diplomas should be stripped when they are caught applying to college, and they should be tossed. Period. The reward for getting away with sneaking over illegally for a while should not be citizenship.

Many of their parents paid taxes. Maybe that tax money should be repaid to them.

Posted by: hanmeng at October 6, 2010 3:51 AM
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Many of them didn't pay taxes. Will they go to jail? Doubtful.

Also- "Know what you get if you're an illegal immigrant in Mexico? A prison cell."

Some people actually vote for these politicians, who after years and years are now getting a clue!

Which part of the word "illegal" is so hard for people to understand?

Exactly. Why are illegals being rewarded for breaking the law?

Perhaps everyone ought to pay the same price. Or do nonresidents get twice the education?

@bradley13
Thank you. That's exactly right.
My state also had this issue come up a few years back. Now, I understand that most of the kids in this situation had no say in their status. They were brought to this country, illegally, by their parents and had no way of changing their status...until they were 18, which is college age. Once you're an adult, you need to act like one. And let's get real here. No court is going to send some 18 year old who has lived in the USA for 15 years (assuming they didn't commit a crime) packing back to El Salvador. And if they DID commit a crime, I don't want them here. Send 'em home. Otherwise, let them become a citizen, pay their dues, and then they can get in-state tuition.
The way CA has it set up now is just another case of rewarding illegal and irresponsible behavior.
Someone remind me why I went to college (which I paid for), then got a job, then, got married, then had a baby? I could have just sat on my butt all these years on the government dime!

There are some who say that we permit illegals to work in the fields for low wages so we won't have to pay $10 for a head of lettuce.

Truth is everyone is paying $10 for a head of lettuce. You are just not aware of it.

I can only imagine how much more head-exploding-with-rage inducing this sort of stuff is if your a legal immigrant trying to get citizenship the right way.

Doesn't it cost more to house a prisoner in California than to send them to state university? Are you arguing for more spending on illegal immigrants?

I break into your house, make myself at home, and tell you that I will be staying indefinitely. Are you happier about this if I occasionally wash the dishes? If the police finally come and kick me out, should I be repaid for the time I spent dishwashing?

Perfect example, Bradley13.

And illegals cost us big in health care and education before they ever get to college.

And Gavin, I don't want illegal immigrants in jail, but on buses, headed back over the border. And that goes for all the illegals in jail. They need to be in MEXICAN prisons, not ours, where we have to pay to house, feed, and guard them.

Good!

Know what you get if you're an illegal immigrant in Mexico? A prison cell.

If you're lucky, you'll get that far. If you're not, you'll be robbed, possibly raped, maybe murdered and dumped, or sold to a Mexican coyote to smuggle across the border to work off your debt to the coyote.

And that's by the Mexican cops.

"Perhaps everyone ought to pay the same price. Or do nonresidents get twice the education?"

Residents of the state pay taxes that support the school. Nonresidents don't pay those taxes, so they have to pay the full unsubsidized rate. Private colleges don't have in and out of state rates, everyone pays the same high rate.

Amy,

Illegals should be in Mexican prisons? Why? I don't understand.

I think you must mean one of two things. The first is a prison exchange; this is common enough; and sure enough the US and Mexico have a prisoner exchange treaty. This treaty doesn't include reimbursement (so the cost of imprisoning is paid by the state they're in), but immigration offenses are excluded from the treaty. As well, transfer occurs at the request of the prisoner & receiving state, and is consented to by the detaining state, not at the request of the detaining state. It's very difficult to see how this treaty could be renegotiated in the way you want. Why should Mexico, a free nation, agree to that?

Or, are you saying Mexico should make it a crime, in Mexico, to be in the US illegally?

What makes you think the Mexican authorities will lock them up? Google Juan Leonardo Quintero. Convicted of molesting a 12 year old girl he was deported in 1999 but came back sometime before Sep 21, 2006 when he killed Rodney Johnson of the Houston PD during a traffic stop.

Then google Texas Police Trooper Steve Stone. He surived but at least one of his assailants had been been criminally deported twice.

The Mexican Government doesn't give a rat's fanny about what one of their citizens did in the US.

Gavin, she is saying that someone caught living and working illegally in Mexico is sent to jail by Mexican authorities.

I think Gavin was responding to the statement:

"They need to be in MEXICAN prisons, not ours, where we have to pay to house, feed, and guard them. "

... and yeah, I doubt you'd get the Mexican govt to go for that.

Some people say we need to attract intelligent immigrants. HB-1 visas and all of that.
Certainly we need good-looking immigrants, especially women.
Let's think this over.

Sorry for my confusion, I was having trouble understanding, in your comment to me:

And that goes for all the illegals in jail. They need to be in MEXICAN prisons, not ours, where we have to pay to house, feed, and guard them.

And I tried to understand the paradigm that works in. Right now, a Mexican in a US prison, not for an immigration or military offense, can, with the consent of the Mexican government, apply to be imprisoned there, where he will serve out his full term.

I don't know what parabarbarian is saying about Juan Leonardo Quintero; I wish you'd provided more information so I could appreciate what you're asking for.

Was Mr. Quintero deported to serve time in Mexico? Sent to Mexico on a prisoner exchange? What should Mexico have done to prevent his re-entry to the US? Mexico is a free country, and their justice system doesn't in general permit people to be tried for crimes committed in foreign countries for which they have already received foreign justice.

- Gavin

Illegal aliens can't get in-state tuition in Arizona. This became law last year. The response was that the public universities took all scholarship funds that were at their discretion and turned then into "keep the illegals in school" scholarships. If a donor gives to a public university in AZ and doesn't specify what it's for, odds are that it's going to the tuition of someone here illegally. It's private money, so it's better than giving the very reduced in-state rate to someone who shouldn't be here in the first place (and whose parents might or might not have paid taxes,) but it's also taking scholarship money away from a citizen or legal resident who might otherwise have gotten it.

Gavin, don't play dumb. Parsing words will get you nowhere here. Being in the country without proper entry is a crime in every country in the world, as far as I know. The point about Quintero is that he never should have been here in the first place. And yes, Mexico does have a responsibility to control its borders, if it wants to be taken seriously by the international community. But if it refuses to do so, we American citizens have the absolute and inarguable right to demand that our government secure that border by whatever means necessary. If our government representatives flatl refuse to do so, as they have done, well...

Security is the only legitimate reason a country has for restricting who visits. Once that burden is passed it's simply not your business who comes here. If you're pissed about spending money on illegals the better answer is to stop spending the money, not restricting liberty.

Most illegals do pay taxes and they should certainly get those funds returned if they cannot access the services they pay for.

I wonder how great California will be after they deny all state services and employment to a person who was brought here illegally as a toddler, doesn't speak Spanish, and has no roots in Mexico?

Stop all the social welfare crap and let people be free. Our country is a much richer and better place for the immigrants that come here.

i wouldn't care about instate tuition so much if admissions officers didn't love the "victim" essay so much. You can't get into a UC if you're not rich, a certified genius or a illegal/incest survivor/member of a victim class of some sort.

Scott,

What the F' are you smoking? Cause I want some to be that out of touch with reality.

Security is the only legitimate reason a country has for restricting who visits. Once that burden is passed it's simply not your business who comes here.

Let's discuss the 9/11 hijackers -- if anyone had done their job it would have been stopped.

If you're pissed about spending money on illegals the better answer is to stop spending the money, not restricting liberty.

That would be great -- but why are hospitals, WIC, HHS, etc restricted from asking about immigration questions?

Most illegals do pay taxes and they should certainly get those funds returned if they cannot access the services they pay for.

Please show me your stats for paying taxes?

And what part of illegal means they don't get services; like highways, legal driver license fees, etc.

I wonder how great California will be after they deny all state services and employment to a person who was brought here illegally as a toddler, doesn't speak Spanish, and has no roots in Mexico?

While I agree its too late for many -- the 14th amendment was intended to cover freed blacks and legal aliens. Not the foot dry and anchor babies.

Stop all the social welfare crap and let people be free. Our country is a much richer and better place for the immigrants that come here.

That would be great if we got rid of our money sucking institutions.

Cousin Bob,

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear: I still do not know what Mexico should have done in the case of Quintero. When you tell me that illegal entry is a crime in most countries, I'll take your word for it. But what does that have to do with Mexico? Did Mr. Quintero enter Mexico illegally?

I'm not parsing words here, I have a legitimate question, and I am frankly confused by what you, and other commenters are asking for.

Mr. Quintero entered the USA illegally, not Mexico. Again, Mexico's justice system, like the United States', does not generally re-try cases that occured in foreign countries. Mexico generally has free movement for its citizens in the country, so since Mr. Quintero wasn't a criminal in Mexico, shouldn't he have been allowed to move around Mexico freely? What should Mexico have done?

- Gavin

"Most illegals do pay taxes and they should certainly get those funds returned if they cannot access the services they pay for."

Bullcrap. That money they pay in (and it's precious little, hon) should be used to get rid of their law-breaking asses. Taxes support Border Control, so they DO get benefit from the taxes they pay.

i wouldn't care about instate tuition so much if admissions officers didn't love the "victim" essay so much. You can't get into a UC if you're not rich, a certified genius or a illegal/incest survivor/member of a victim class of some sort.

I agree with the victim mentality prevalent in California, but regular people can get into a UC easily enough. Every single UC has a guaranteed admission program for graduates of the community colleges. Not every college to every university, but there is a path to each UC. Simply go to the community college that connects with your UC of choice for 2 years. You can then spend your last 2.5 years at the UC of your dreams (you get 6 regular quarters and 3 summer quarters before they kick you out, enough to get 3 or even 4 majors if you're serious, or study abroad, or whatever special experience you want to have at the UC). The essay has very little effect on the UC admission in this scenario. Out of state people can establish residency (and get instate tuition) by working for one year before matriculating at the community colleges.

Security is the only legitimate reason...

WRONG. We are an independent nation with EVERY right to decide who comes and goes from our borders, and under what terms. Whether we do so for security reasons, employment and economic concerns regarding the well being of our legitimate taxpaying citizens, or yes, legal concerns regarding health, safety, or import export matters. We owe nothing to the nation of Mexico or its illegally entering citizens.

What is your source for asserting that illegals are paying taxes? I'd like to know, because I call bullshit on that statement.

As for the people who were brought here as infants and are now adults, that is a spurious question, one that ignores the fact that those people would have been grandfathered by one of the rounds of immunity that were handed out to illegals, after 7 years of residence a person is elligible to apply for citizenship if they so desire. Unless the law has changed in the last few years, and I haven't heard that.

Gavin, go play somewhere else. The adults are talking here.

Cousin Dave,

Thank you for playing. You lose.

The illegal immigrants paying taxes is a bit of a red herring, IMO. They are breaking the law. If we find their net contribution to society is greater than what they take, we can change those laws. But in the meantime, they are breaking the law and whether or not they are paying taxes is not relevant. Perhaps they are also giving to charities. Nice, but not relevant. One's right to remain in this country isn't based on whether one is a nice person or not, its based on a series of laws. The sovereign nation has a right to decide who they want or don't want, by whatever criteria they chose to use.

Seriously Gavin are you mentally retarded or just playing obtuse.

An illegal immigrant in mexico is jailed - not pending deportation hearings - just jailed for the crime of being in mexico illegally

Given mexicos own stance on the issuse - a stance SUPPORTED by the mexican people - WHy the fuck do they expect, indeed demand, that the treatment our citizens and our governemtn must be better then the treatment they show their illegals?

Afre you getting it yet?

Mexican citizens demand the mexican govenment punish illegals found in their boarders while at the same time demand that when they are found to be in our country illegally that they sould get free food, shelter, heathcare, education, rebates on the taxes they paid.

Have you got the picture yet or is your walnut sized brain still not able to process such a simple cncept as hypocricy?

As Dave already said go away the adults are talking. Come back when you can learn how to read, think, and follow the train of thought, if not all the way to the end of the line at the very least from point A to point B