"Alternative" Medicine Can Be An Alternative To Living
Beyond all the poor gullible cancer patients who dash off to quacks in Mexico or believe that wheat grass enemas trump chemo, dozens have been killed by incorrectly placed acupuncture needles, writes Ian Sample in the Guardian.
A review of patients who died soon after acupuncture found a history of punctured hearts and lungs, damaged arteries and livers, nerve problems, shock, infection and haemorrhage, largely caused by practitioners placing their needles incorrectly or failing to sterilise their equipment.Many of the 86 patients, aged between 26 and 82 years old, died after being treated by acupuncturists in China or Japan, but a handful of fatalities were recorded in the US, Germany and Australia. The most recent death, of a 26-year-old woman in China, occurred last year.
The most common cause of death was a condition called pneumothorax, where air finds its way between the membranes that separate the lungs from the chest wall and causes the lungs to collapse.
In most of the cases, doctors were certain that acupuncture was to blame, but in some the cause was less clear.
In the words of Marcia Angell and Jerome Kassirer:
It is time for the scientific community to stop giving alternative medicine a free ride... There cannot be two kinds of medicine -- conventional and alternative. There is only medicine that has been adequately tested and medicine that has not, medicine that works and medicine that may or may not work. Once a treatment has been tested rigorously, it no longer matters whether it was considered alternative at the outset. If it is found to be reasonably safe and effective, it will be accepted.
via Instapundit
Marcia Angell and Jerome Kassirer: It is time for the scientific community to stop giving alternative medicine a free ride... There cannot be two kinds of medicine -- conventional and alternative. There is only medicine that has been adequately tested and medicine that has not, medicine that works and medicine that may or may not work. Once a treatment has been tested rigorously, it no longer matters whether it was considered alternative at the outset. If it is found to be reasonably safe and effective, it will be accepted.
And screw the rights of autonomous adults to make their own decisions and live with them, or die with them.
The scientific community is free to promote their views as they see fit, and cite all the studies they care to. They can even challenge alternative medicine in any venue they see fit.
However, no one gave the scientific community jurisdiction over what is and isn't allowed to be presented as alternative medicine. The scientific community isn't "giving alternative medicine a free ride." They have no choice. Free speech and all that. People can share whatever anecdotes they care to, about how their terminal cancer was cured by taking grapeseed extract, and other people are free to listen to these accounts and choose to eschew conventional medicine in favor of alternative.
Patrick at October 23, 2010 2:42 AM
Okay, Patrick.
At what point does the law intervene - as in consumer protection law enforcement?
This isn't victimless.
Radwaste at October 23, 2010 5:30 AM
For adults over 18, I like to see this as improving the gene pool. It seems someone with as libertarian a bent as Amy would not want more regs.
momof4 at October 23, 2010 6:07 AM
Sheer hubris. Many forms of treatment have been used for thousands of years. Yes, by all means please disregard all of them since they didn't come up up the last 50 years.
I would actually look forward to modern scientific types allowing and testing some older healing techniques.
Any while we are at it, let's compare numbers of people harmed or killed by modern medical techniques, medicines and doctors compared to those getting acupuncture.
Let's shine the same critical light on the home team just to forestall rampant hypocrisy.
LauraGr at October 23, 2010 7:01 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/10/23/alternative_med_1.html#comment-1769706">comment from LauraGrWitch doctory has been used for thousands of years. If there's no evidence a treatment works, it is not a good treatment. Modern medicine isn't always evidence-based, either (witness all the people on getting fat and getting heart disease on high-carb/low-fat diets), but it should be as well.
Tragically, a friend of a friend who was dying of cancer went to Mexico and spent a lot of money on treatment Orac (Respectful Insolence) and others have revealed to be no treatment at all, leaving him less time with his wife and baby and leaving them less of a nest egg when he died.
Amy Alkon at October 23, 2010 7:15 AM
My aunt went to Mexico to get alternative treatments, too. She did it after her oncologist told her to settle her affairs since he could not do anything else for her. She claims to have gotten an extra year+ after her oncologist told her she'd have less than 90 days. She is actually still kicking but very ill, atm.
It was her choice. It made her and her family feel like they had not given up. I am uncertain how effective or not the treatment was.
I'm sorry your friend died but wasn't it his choice to try? To research? Was his wife on board with the decision making at the time?
I think it is a person's right to choose treatments, or no treatment at all. Anything else is unacceptable.
Who gets to determine what treatments are effective? The same entity that pushes statins on the general public? Or lets the brain rotting aspartame be put in so many foods? Would you believe anything they had to say? When they are patently wrong about so many things?
LauraGr at October 23, 2010 7:53 AM
The Goddess writes: If there's no evidence a treatment works, it is not a good treatment.
Or that it hasn't been tested.
Patrick at October 23, 2010 8:49 AM
The Chinese have practiced acupuncture for centuries. How many people are killed in this country each year by conventional medical mistakes? A handful of deaths from acupuncture doesn't make it an invalid form of treatment. It only proves that the practioners did it wrong.
My allergies were cured by acupuncture, and I will be forever grateful. The doctor who did it went to China and studied under the top acupuncturists. He had a very successful practice in Ft Lauderdale for years, using many of these alternative methods.
Conventional medicine doesn't know everything, and I agree it should be an individual choice. Why would we want to restrict these choices?
lovelysoul at October 23, 2010 10:17 AM
The cry of the wild quack: "Nobody but me is trying this alternative medicine."
That's the insanity of it all. You find a cure for something, wham, off to the races!
Like this.
Gee, all of a sudden it's real quiet...
Radwaste at October 23, 2010 10:27 AM
Dozens have died from holistic medicines? As opposed to how many malpractice cases in traditional medicine? I was prescribed quinine recently for a neuromuscular disease. Unfortunately it is no longer available OTC thanks to the big pharmaceutical companies here in the USA. A presciption costs over $300 for a one month supply as opposed to the $12 bottle once available. I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but examples like that make me less trusting of the medical establishment and what they can and cannot do.
Kristen at October 23, 2010 11:02 AM
XKCD presents the economic evidence against the efficacy of various types of quackery. http://xkcd.com/808/
Christopher at October 23, 2010 11:23 AM
Whoops - I see that Radwaste beat me to it. Nice work.
Christopher at October 23, 2010 11:24 AM
Kristen - I read up on the FDA regulation of Quinine and it's clear that it is merely representative of the overly-restrictive requirements that the FDA has been using in the past 20-3 years regarding drug approvals in general, rather than some conspiracy.
I know - why couldn't the whole thing be a conspiracy? Because it's also keeping new drugs from the market, and in a few cases has pulled drugs from the market entirely, and it has affected enough of the biggest drug companies that it just doesn't make sense to see it as anything more than the FDA's overpowering sense if it's own importance.
WayneB at October 23, 2010 11:41 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/10/23/alternative_med_1.html#comment-1769938">comment from ChristopherXKCD presents the economic evidence against the efficacy of various types of quackery. http://xkcd.com/808/
I've found curses and hexes to be remarkably ineffective in stopping telemarketing.
Amy Alkon at October 23, 2010 1:47 PM
WayneB, I have two friends who are pharmaceutical sales people and one who works in a doctor's office. The salesperson that best kisses the doctor's ass is the one who gets the most prescriptions written for their company. As far as the quinine, it wasn't something that was causing major problems that would cause the FDA to prevent it being OTC. Not only that, only one company now sells it and the way it is dosed, it is higher than the miniscule amounts people were taking for various leg cramp and muscle issues. Now instead of taking a small dose that would alleviate my stiffness I must take 324 mg which gives me facial tremors. I can no longer take the quinine because the form cannot be reduced so now I have to live with mobility problems that were once helped by something that was OTC. And yes, they do it to other drugs as well but is it really helping the patients or the drug companies?
Kristen at October 23, 2010 2:45 PM
> I've found curses and hexes to be
> remarkably ineffective in stopping
> telemarketing.
The former, verily: Lately I've taken to suggesting that my telemarketing callers interrupt their time with me to go blow their supervisors, noting that [A] those men were, presumably, very attractive and [B] the caller has to earn that minimum wage somehow, and they sure ain't gonna earn in it by their little chat with me.
You can do this. I mean it. If you're on the federal do not call list, it's open season on those people.
Here's the amazing part, OK? READ CAREFULLY: When you do this, the phone calls will stop for awhile.
Got that? You AREN'T receiving those calls randomly. Someone, somewhere, is keeping a chart of how receptive you are to these flatly illegal intrusions.
KNOW that truth... FEEL its power.
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at October 23, 2010 4:05 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/10/23/alternative_med_1.html#comment-1770077">comment from Crid [cridcomment at gmail]Oh, I'm EXTREMELY unreceptive, and if I can, find the home numbers of the people who run those companies and call them at home. Calls from carpet cleaners continue to come -- although I took your wonderful suggestion and send them to the Federal Building to shampoo their rugs.
Amy Alkon at October 23, 2010 4:43 PM
On the one hand, from a libertarian perspective I support the idea of people being able to get the treatments they want. But on the other hand, why should alternative medicine get a free pass on safety regulations and product liability? Why should the marketers of conventional treatments be put at such a huge competitive disadvantage?
Cousin Dave at October 23, 2010 6:37 PM
I agree with Patrick above (bothersome he has been lately). It is all free choice. People have the choice to be morons to believe in Acupunture or Chiropractors.
lovelysoul wow you helped with allergies by acupuncture. Hmmmm what is the fallacy their ah yes - anecdotal. I can bet you with modern science. A simple yay from other people on this board who have used anti-histamines to solve their allergy problem. Thousands beat one everyday.
Another thing that bother me about the acupuncture and it amazing validity is it is thousands of years old. Bullshit argument. So is trepanning, true it is still used in extreme cases nowadays but I sure do not want to make a hole in my head if I have a migraine sorry I will go with Tylenol. Also a major difference is knowledge. Modern science aka medicine builds upon previous knowledge each step forward means thousand if not millions of pages of info. Thousand years ago paper or any writing material was limited so information was passed by tradition and voice. Master to apprentice kind of arrangement which is okay for transfer of knowledge but every generation does not get a complete transfer of knowledge (think of the children game TELEPHONE and do it over a year with a short story lets see how well that works). Include the problem of secrecy (master does not want to tell his secrets), death of master or apprentice knowledge line ends, and just plain dead ends of apprentice becomes master and has no apprentice himself thus ending the knowledge line. So in the end acupuncture likes to sell it self as old and people think the knowledge line is vast and amazing but it has so many gaps and stops and starts it is knowledge is still pretty limited.
Yes people modern medicine does cause problems people do die. In this world nothing is perfect. People make mistakes what works for one person might not work for another and so on But lets take the idea a doctor thru a mistake hurts a patient if proof is found the doctor will likely suffer consequences versus alternative medicine their treatment does not work or something goes wrong they can say it was not enough faith, chi from my ass got in the way of chi from my gut, or it just needs more time.
Sorry I am going to stick with Modern science here. Thru I will admit I did go to a chiropractor a month ago but all I wanted was a good back cracking and ignored the rest of the bunk from the so called doctor of how I need to come in more to treat my listing shoulder. Eye roll.
John Paulson at October 23, 2010 10:22 PM
John Paulson, while there are whack jobs out there and scams, why would should we stop people from making their own choices regarding what they choose to utilize as far as medical care. You don't have to like the chiropractor, but many people feel relief that they don't find elsewhere, myself incuded. I have an two diseases that consistently throw my body out of alignment. I was told that by a physical therapist who went to school in Europe. I've had excruciating pain for years that was finally alleviated after visiting a chiro on a semi-regular basis. I go when I feel pain coming on and stiffness because I know I'm getting out of whack. Insurance doesn't cover that and I've never had an orthopedist or any other doctor do for me what the chiro did. They wrote me plenty of prescriptions for narcotics that are addicting despite me telling them I don't like taking drugs. I don't want to be in a constant drug haze which is what happens when I take medicines. I want to go about my day like everyone else. The chiropractor helps me do that. That is proof enough for me.
Kristen at October 24, 2010 6:15 AM
"People have the choice to be morons to believe in Acupunture or Chiropractors."
And so you should be able to read all this and tell those people to suck it up - that it's OK for them to inflict damage on their families, and that yes, you have no problem with their unvaccinated kids being in school with yours.
What? You thought this damage only affected the people who buy the charlatan's spiel?
Radwaste at October 24, 2010 6:51 AM
Four big problems with medical treatment in general and determining whether it has been effective or not. 1. Probably 80-90 percent of serious illness, is caused by either your genetic makeup, or lifestyle choices. Some conventional treatments will work and work well for those with a certain genetic makeup, others won't work at all. The majority of people can "cure" themselves of a lot of life threatening conditions merely by throwing out the cigarettes, limiting the drinking, getting some exercise, eating a more healthful diet and losing about 50 pounds. You are the architect of your own demise, about 90 percent of the time. Add in the fact that human life in general has a hundred percent morality rate, and you realize that "something" is going to kill you. The only question is what, and when.
2. The placebo effect. For many non lethal diseases, the test for an effective medication or treatment is "does it make you feel better"? This is a very subjective measurement and the placebo effect is well documented. This is why they can sell so much of that airborne shit at the grocery store. People have a cold, it has gone on longer then they think it should have and just about the time their own immune system is getting a handle on it, they take Airborne and voila, their cold is finally gone. Or, they whine enough to get a prescription for antibiotics from their doctor and that "cures" their cold which is a viral illness and totally unresponsive to antibiotics which treat only bacterial infections.
3. Most people don't understand that cancer is many different diseases.
They all share one thing in common, which is wild cell division and growth of cells that take over and crowd out the cells that make up your functional organs. Doctors now know that some forms of cancer are not going to kill you because they grow so slowly that they will not end your life. Old age/ other things will do it first. Some types of breast cancer can be completely cured merely by removing the initial tumor with no chemo or radiation. Doctors love there types of cancer because they can use these cases to fluff up their stats and their "five year survival rates". Doctors and research scientists are people too and are not immune to either propaganda or the profit motive. Yes, it is a flaw, but the alternative, letting Obama and his minions mandating what "effective" treatments are is even worse. At least my physician has a profit motive to keep me an alive and and paying customer. The government has no such motive.
4. Is evidences based medicine perfect? No, it is an evolving discipline as the evidence changes. Right now one of the big goals is figuring out why some treatments work on some people and not on others. The key to finding this out is linked to decoding the human genome. Lack of perfection is no reason to reject evidence based medicine. The alternative, quackery of all kinds, will "work" for some people with some conditions, but the numbers tell us, that doing nothing at all would have worked as well in these cases, because occasionally you get a miracle otherwise known in the scientific circles as "spontaneous remission".
Isabel1130 at October 24, 2010 8:31 AM
Homeopathic Hospital:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
Robert at October 24, 2010 12:30 PM
I've found curses and hexes to be remarkably ineffective in stopping telemarketing.
Posted by: Amy Alkon
Thats because you didnt do the blood sacrifice - you have to sacrifice the child of the telemarketer in question for the hex to work
lujlp at October 25, 2010 1:01 AM
Dr. Ben Goldacre has warred against homeopathy for years in his Bad Science column of the Guardian, as well as Bad Science homepage: http://www.badscience.net/
The testimony of friends who use and believe in homeopathy is enough for me to stay away from it forever. People are so blind when it comes to belief. It is impossible for me to give up on logic and reason when the very people trying to convince me to go to a homeopath are in much worse health now than ever they were with western medicine.
Ingrid at October 25, 2010 9:07 AM
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