Is Portland The New Neverland?
Interesting piece by Nancy Rommelmann in the Oregonian on 20-something who are slacking or directionless or unable to find work or work that pays that much in Portland. I think, from my mail, experiences of my young friends, and what I read, that this problem isn't just Portland-based. Nancy writes:
A recent episode of the AMC series "Mad Men" showed its female characters navigating a husband's departure for Vietnam and the land mines awaiting career women in 1964."I realized, watching it, these women were all 26," says Paige Prather, who moved to Portland in August and who is also 26 years old. Unlike her TV sisterhood, Prather, who has a bachelor's degree in anthropology, has not picked a profession. Unmarried, living rent-free in her sister's attic, she is looking for part-time work in customer service, or a full-time position in the arts. Graduate school also looms as a possibility. The crazy-making multiplicity of her situation is not lost on her.
"I sometimes think we're the scatterbrained generation," says Prather. "You have so many choices, and you know what you end up doing? Nothing. You become the DJ-fashion-designing-knitting-coffee-maker."
***
"Is emerging adulthood a rich and varied period for self-discovery ... or is it just another term for self-indulgence?"
These were among the questions posed by Robin Marantz Henig in a recent New York Times Sunday Magazine article, "What Is It About 20-Somethings?" As compared with previous generations, Henig asked psychologists, why are kids taking so long to grow up? Why aren't they choosing careers and sticking with them? It's identity exploration, they said; it's brain development, it's overindulgent parents, it's the recession.
To this list Portland can add the tantalizing insinuation, much heralded in the media, that young people here make their passions their professions, in coffee and beer, music and bikes, progressive politics and as stewards of the land.
It must be a sweet song: A 2010 report out of Portland State University puts the number of 20- to 29-year-olds in Multnomah County at more than 100,000. And if one must take a dreary job, or hold down two, three, eight creative gigs to make ends meet, it can take a little savor out of the perfect Portland pie, as well as have the paradoxical effect of working hard to not get far.
Your thoughts? Your experience (or that of 20-somethings in your area)?
The question: "...why are kids taking so long to grow up?"
The anecdotal answer: Unmarried, living rent-free in her sister's attic, she is looking for part-time work...
There are a few people whose very nature drives them to grow up, take responsibility, and life a real life. In my experience, these people are the exception, not the rule. Human nature is basically lazy. Why work when you don't have to? Why exert yourself?
Look at the anecdote above, and ask the question: why is this woman's sister allowing her to live rent-free in her house? This enables her sister to avoid taking on adult responsibilities. In the long run, she is doing her sister a disservice. Of course, this is just the last in a long line of disservices: who paid this woman's way to a useless anthropology degree? Who is paying her day-to-day living expenses?
Parents should - indeed must - kick their kids out of the next. For most kids, that's the only way they will ever learn to fly. If you do not prepare your child for independence, and then demand that they become independent, you have failed as a parent.
a_random_guy at November 30, 2010 2:58 AM
a_random_guy ot it right, these people parents failed them.
Never let tem get their feeling hurt, never let them get dirty, never made them do a school project by themselves, never made them take responsibility for themselves
Say hello to the first crop of helicopter children - its only gonna get worse
lujlp at November 30, 2010 3:28 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/11/30/is_portland_the.html#comment-1791033">comment from lujlpThe idea that I would EVER live with my parents did not exist anywhere in my head.
Amy Alkon at November 30, 2010 3:37 AM
This woman didn't wake up as a 20-something with no plans or ambitions - she spent her teenage years in this same "why put off until tomorrow what can wait until the day after" daze.
Did her parents truly give her *everything*? Did she not ever feel the need to get a babysitting job (or grocery store bagging job) in order to buy little things for herself, then figure out that if she wanted that one awesome jacket (or skirt, or skateboard, or whatever) that she really needed to get a better-paying job? And then realize that you have to hustle to get and keep that better job? (And if you want to work for yourself, you really have to hustle.)
Or is she a little princess-in-waiting, thinking that she doesn't have to get a job (or put work into being qualified to do a decent job) because someday a husband is going to come sweep her away to a better place where she can have "her own" home (paid for entirely by him)?
jen at November 30, 2010 5:16 AM
There is something to be said for having a career you are passionate about. However, there is also something to be said for paying your bills. We have one life so we should do what makes us happy. But if what makes us happy takes awhile, we should do what pays the bills while getting there.
Kristen at November 30, 2010 5:20 AM
I have a 20 year old daughter who was 16 when she started university. One of my requirements for her going to school was that she live on campus, no matter how close the school was to our home. If I didn't do this, she never would have cut the apron strings. At the time, she was pretty upset that we lived 10 miles from campus and I was "kicking her out of the house." She has gone from a girl who had no desire to step outside her comfort zone, who refused to board a plane and couldn't cook (that one's my fault) to a woman who isnt' afraid to ask questions, she went to Europe for a month and has become a very good cook. Ironically, she's moving home in a few weeks (she finished a 4 year university in 3.5 years - that's me bragging). She's going to work for a year while she pays off a few small student loans and saves some money before going to grad school. Sadly, I don't want her to move home and depending where she goes to grad school, she may be here for awhile.
So the point of all that is this...I'm one of those moms who has done most everything for my kids - EXCEPT homework. I already graduated high school and I never felt the need for a "do over." I think I finally got it right in that area. I have allowed them to rise or fall on their own merits, not because I bail them out with a teacher or do their school work for them. After 22+ years of raising kids, I think I'm finally getting the other part of it together, I stopped doing my 16 year olds laundry this year and insist that she take a larger role in the household stuff. I thought I was doing them a favor by taking care of the day-to-day stuff so they could concentrate on school. Then I went to dinner at my 22 year olds house - two words: barely edible. Now I know why my mom had my sisters and I preparing dinners and handling household chores from a very early age. It really is about preparing kids to be independent, self-sufficient adults. I wish I could get a "do over."
sara at November 30, 2010 5:31 AM
My experience is atypical. I joined the army at 21, and have been in ever since, I'm about to turn 33, I expect I'll still be in at 40, assuming no future injury proves crippling to the point of forcing my exit.
None of that was stopping me from having wild years in my 20s. Fuck it though, if you can afford to be a bit wild, well those years come but once.
Robert at November 30, 2010 5:32 AM
Your experience (or that of 20-somethings in your area)?
1) In my area: 20-something Israelis are handling munitions, leading raids, or conducting intelligence/policing operations. They're living away from home, and have tons of responsibility - but not much autonomy.
2) What exactly is the list of "shoulds" for these kids? What are the expectations behind this new "overgrown kids" genre?
I certainly don't want them tumbling into marriage before they're mature enough.
So that leaves economic independence as the only remaining marker of maturity - one that does not really require emotional maturity.
In particular: it's quite possible hold a job and balance one's checkbook without getting over a fundamentally narcissistic worldview. Just like these folks got a supposedly "liberal" education without getting over their navel-gazing.
Ben David at November 30, 2010 5:46 AM
So was I the only one impressed by the majority of people in Nancy's article? The guy with the bike shop, the music producer who had bought a house, the guy who was managing to make a living in journalism, and the woman who dreams of opening a teahouse but is working as a bakery manager -- all, to me, illustrated creativity that was being funneled toward entrepreneurship. Do I think it's okay to waste 25 years of your life being directionless? No. But if you're going to take a few years to figure out who you are and who you want to be, much better that you do it in your 20s when you are single, child-free and mortgage-less. At least some of those 26-year-olds who were navigating career landmines in 1964 turned into 36-year-olds who burned their bras and left their husbands to become self-actualized. Give me the 26-year-old living in an attic who gets a career and a life by 36 any day. Plus, there have always been many more people who have wanted to make a living doing creative work than there has been creative work. The weeding-out process is brutal, but fairly effective.
Am I saying that I think it's good for a 23-year-old to have a trust fund and no work ethic? NO. (I was working and living on my own at 23 because, well, I had to!) But I also don't think it's the end of the world for that 23-year-old to be living as cheaply as possible and working basic jobs while he/she figures out his/her path. Especially if student loans aren't a giant issue.
And, not to be all radical here, but...this "issue" of slacker 20somethings is really mostly an upper-middle-class issue. 20somethings from working-class and poor families don't tend to be struggling with finding meaning in life while their mommy does their laundry. There are plenty of 20somethings who work, and work hard -- but that doesn't make a good story.
marion at November 30, 2010 5:47 AM
I'm old enough that Robert's experience was typical for males of my generation, and not totally voluntary. In any case, I was happy to leave home.
There's something about living in a country where you don't speak the language fluently that makes you realize that you can cope with pretty much anything.
My daughters are that way - nothing fazes them.
My son came back after college and stayed for a few years. He had the misfortune of graduating with a Computer Science degree into the dot com bust. It took him a few years to get a full time job and the down payment on his house.
It depends on the kids. It depends on what the parents enable. I'd say most of the twenty-somethings on my street have moved out.
MarkD at November 30, 2010 5:50 AM
I grew up hearing "you can be anything you want". What that ends up translating to is "you can be/do everything at once"...then you see so many peers actually doing that. I wound up frozen in place - so many passions, so many talents, nothing concrete to make a career. I went to school, like I was supposed to, and got a degree then got a job so I could move out and support myself. Goal achieved, yes?
NO.
My job isn't FULFILLING. It doesn't make me HAPPY. That, in and of itself, is a bit depressing but I enjoyed the independence and being on my own. But then I actually began to feel BAD about the fact my job is lame and boring. Like, the true goal is to find the PERFECT job that I can make lots of money doing (lots of money because I like money and want it) but make it while doing my dream job. Well. Back to square one - wtf is my dream job??!
I am trying to slowly redirect myself into a job that I can stand and doesn't make me want to pull my hair out...but there are a select few important people in my life that make me feel as thought I am doing a shit job in life because I don't know what my dream job is (opening a doggy daycare? starting my own perfume/body product line? go back for psych and help people with OCD?) and that I am not pursuing it with all my might.
So. I stay where I am because I have good health insurance, a 3% match on my 401K and a paycheck every other Friday.
What I and people in the same frozen place as me need to do is just fucking pick something and DO IT ALREADY. Buutttttttttttttttt....
Gretchen at November 30, 2010 6:53 AM
Oh, and all of my friends and I have been on our own since 1 year post-graduation. It took a while for everyone to get jobs and save up enough money to leave...but since we've been out that has been it.
There were a few exceptions but in those two or three cases the child living at home was mutually beneficial for the parents who needed the extra money and hands around the house (illness, job loss, etc).
A nice chunk of people in my age group are also starting to buy homes because everyone recognizes that the prices and interest rates are unbeatable and that this is a great time to buy if you have a steady job and home ownership is something that you want for yourself.
Gretchen at November 30, 2010 7:01 AM
I'm 26, living in Oklahoma. My Close friends range from 24-27. Out of 4, 3 have a degree. 1 is doing what she loves in Wyoming and is going to get her masters. The one without a degree makes more than us with degrees. 1 is married, one is engaged. All of us are homeowners. We all grew up affluent, private school etc but I got a scholarship based on my test scores and we all went to state schools. We all had jobs in high school to provide fun money but our parents bought us our first cars. My parents had to be co-borrowers on my home loan bc I was laid off in March for 4 months and even with good credit, I couldn't get the loan.
Basically, my group of friends is self supporting and we all enjoy our jobs, although I want to be in a different department because that is where my passion is. It was expected of me to go to college but I ended up stopping for 2 years and working full time because my degree wasn't (still isn't) related to any type of job field. I ended up finishing my degree taking night classes and working full time because unfortunately, some jobs require just a degree.
I feel like our parents set us up for success. Yes they did a lot for us but we also knew the gravy train had an end and since we aren't morons, we tried to maximize what we did while we had some help. My parents paid for my school as long as I had good grades. My friends had to take out loans but they graduated and are stable 20somethings. I have some acquaintances who are traveling around Europe and we were just incredulous they could afford it but they are either on mommy and daddys dime or taking out more student loans than they need. We all think that is stupid.
I think parenting and enabling is the key factor to the Peter pan theory... If my parents hadn't made me get a job and just given me whatever I wanted, I doubt I would be self supporting. Parents need to cut the apron strings because kids need to sink or swim. Me and another friend have both been laid off but we landed on our feet and managed to get other jobs. I think 20 somethings have a distorted view of work, that it should be their passion and anything less means their work is pointless. While my job isn't super challenging or rewarding, I like my coworkers and I have no stress... That gives me the opportunity to enjoy my time outside of work. My motto is work to live, not live to work. Eventually I hope to be back doing what I loved before I was laid off but I'm happy I have a stable job and can support myself. I would NEVER move back home, probably because my parents didn't make it this wonderland of awesomeness. If my mom offered to cook, clean, do laundry and let me have the run of the house I might feel different. Anyone with a job should be payig rent.
I hate articles that portray all 20somethings as drifters, freeloaders or whatever. That is true in any generation I think.
Casey at November 30, 2010 7:19 AM
Gretchen, you and me both. Back when I went off to college, I did everything wrong. First of all, because I didn't go to college FOR something, to PURSUE something, I went because I was just lost, directionless, and had led too sheltered of a life. I went to college by default. I picked up a degree in accounting, because I wanted to make enough money to have my own apartment someday.
Accounting pays the bills, but is tedious, routine, and boring, especially if you stay in the same job for very long. A long time ago, I stayed at the same company for seven years, but held three different positions during that time. That's my record. Most of my jobs have lasted less than two years. I get a shit manager, not enough to keep me busy, not enough ownership or challenge, and then I begin hating each day before it's even gotten started. Never mind fulfilling - I can get fulfillment outside of work. I just want something that doesn't make me want to open a vein every goddam day.
One trick I discovered was to take all that financial sense I learned and deleverage completely. I'll never live in a McMansion, but I bought and paid off a 2-bedroom condo. I drive an old car and don't have kids, student loans, credit card debt, or any other constant drain. Just pay for my monthly upkeep, that's all I have to worry about. This has enabled me to pursue contract work as a career and withstand the income fluctuations that come with it. Changing jobs frequently keeps me from getting bored, and since I went back to school for a 2-year degree in MIS, I can also get contract gigs as a business analyst, not just as an accountant.
I don't know what type of field you are in, but that might work for you. I had an old battle axe of a recruiter try to skin me alive one time for all of my "job-hopping." She started whining that all my job-hopping makes me look like I don't know what I want to do. I know EXACTLY what I want to do, and that's to change jobs at least every year. This would be why I only look for contract work and not full-time gigs. I leave every job better than I found it and learn something new each time. That's what keeps me from tearing my hair out.
Pirate Jo at November 30, 2010 7:19 AM
> this "issue" of slacker 20somethings is
> really mostly an upper-middle-class issue
Yeah. It's about white people, and not especially interesting ones.
Crid [cridcomment at gmail] at November 30, 2010 7:47 AM
My ex husband used to drive me batshit with this. It was easy for him to play video games all day while holding out for his dream job because I was paying all the bills and working three jobs. I was certainly enabling him to do this, but it wasn't like I was going to let myself be homeless. It was frustrating working at jobs I was only meh about while he was off reading nursery rhymes to his inner child.
Most of the 20-somethings I know now are working hard, with varying degrees of success, much like any generation.
MonicaP at November 30, 2010 7:51 AM
... while he was off reading nursery rhymes to his inner child.
HA! I'm stealing that one.
Pirate Jo at November 30, 2010 8:04 AM
The first anecdote really irritated me, for some reason, especially when I read further and saw that Paige had grown up in Austin. If she'd looked anywhere around her growing up in Texas, she'd have seen plenty of 26-year-old military wives watching the husbands head off to a dangerous and uncertain place; she didn't have to watch a romantic TV show set in the 60s. That's a pet peeve of mine, I guess, people who live in a little bubble and let the TV "introduce" them to people and lifestyles and concepts that they would understand a lot better if they stepped outside their own (or their parents' or sister's) front door and talked to people who don't look and dress like them.
Other than that...I thought it was about like anything else. The one who owned a bicycle shop and the one who manages a bakery and plans to open her own business and the one with the recording industry aspirations seem to understand the concept of paying dues, handling rejection, and working hard, the two girls who are unemployed and drifting seem to think things just happen. I think it's also telling that Paige-from-Austin mentions that her parents never told her they were disappointed in any choice she ever made, supported every ambition she ever pursued. I'm not saying parents shouldn't be supportive of their kids, but there's a nice spot between *always* supportive and *totally unsupportive* that I think even my third-graders are familiar with. I hope when my kids are old enough to want to run off to Portland or San Francisco or Austin or wherever I've given them that level of support, enough to be confident, to handle rejection, to stand on there own two feet; not so much that they first realize at twenty-freaking-six that they can't actually be a DJ-knitting-designing-wtf forever, that no one in the world thinks they're as special as I do.
I'm actually 26 myself, living in Texas. I know I'm the exception in that I have four kids and I've been married since I was 18, but most of the 20-odds I know are self-supporting, though not usually home-owners, and I guess the culture is a little different. Let's put it this way---most, regardless of how they usually tend to vote, were disgusted or shocked at the part of the current healthcare plan that requires insurance companies to cover your kids up to age 26.
Jenny Had A Chance at November 30, 2010 9:07 AM
The list of mistakes I made from my tender youth to present would fill a book. I slept-walked through college, chose the dental drill of all professions, public accounting, and behaved to ensure that no personal relationship would last beyond six weeks. My personal and professional life didn't get traction until I was 35. I wouldn't have the life now without the havoc I wreaked in the past.
"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement". attributed to various parties.
I wasn't a prodigy of wisdom, nor are most young adults. Our modern times compounded with the current economy might be retarding the onset of full-blown adulthood (whatever that means... I see people in their 50s acting foolishly).
Before we judge, please look at photos of yourself taken in the 80's. Humble thyself.
fianza at November 30, 2010 9:18 AM
By 26, my friends and I had all settled down into some level of responsibility. Job, apartment, and a car, at least. Those who hadn't yet found their adulthood in Phoenix moved to Portland to find it there, with varying levels of success.
Beth at November 30, 2010 9:19 AM
Woah MonicaP, I can see why he is an ex. What a dead weight in your life!
Pjo: Thanks for the ideas. I'm working to pay off as much debt as possible and live modestly and get into a job where I am only doing like 25-30 hours a week, or work from home and not commute, and able to survive okay. Same w/ the husband. Working fewer hours at a job I dislike (but pays me decently) is a more appealing life than struggling to figure out what my Dream Job is and then pouring 80 hours a week into it. I'll just say it. I hate working. Even a fun job is still work. The goal is to live a modest life and work less so I can enjoy more of my TIME - my TIME is worth more to me than having lots of clothes or shoes, etc.
The plight of middle class white kids (no, I'm not being ironic or joking) is that they think the path to happiness is path their parents shove down their throats and the dependence on material shit they teach them, while telling them the world is your oyster.
No it's fucking not. And that's OKAY. I'm totally guilty of being sucked into that and I'm trying hard to break free. You need to learn to be happy bumping along leading an ordinary life - but when you're told you are extra-ordinary, and your life seems anything but, you feel huge disappointment with it and we're not really in a place to actually have extra-ordinary lives. That equates to unhappiness. And lots of people my age thinking they're entitled to stuff. We're not all going to be glamorous and rich and beautiful AND generous, kind, and respected with lots of great friends and fancy nights on the town. It's just realistic and parents need to prepare kids for the reality of life as it will be, and not perpetuate this idea of being super athletes and taking 5 AP classes and getting 5's on all the tests, etc.
It's fine for some people to do that - those should be the ultra successful - but that seems to be the new norm and most people aren't built for it...and even if we are, lots don't want it. But when it's the NORM and you opt-out (which is tremendously hard and complicated when you're 18 and live at home) your life ends up sucking...b/c you have to be the superstar just to pull in a modest income. The skill set increases overall so the overall standards and requirements go up...
Done rambling.
Gretchen at November 30, 2010 9:37 AM
It seems that as long as it's paid for by someone else, it's time for self-indulgence.
Why is she only looking for part-time work?
But, do you have a right to expect someone else to support you while you do it? Do you have a right to commandeer someone eles's trip to Europe, retirement savings, or other dream in order to "figure out who you are and who you want to be?"
Providing someone with food, a roof over their head, running water and sewer service, heat in the winter, a/c in the summer, etc. costs money - money the provider could be using for his own needs or wants.
Apparently they didn't fail the daughter who managed to get a job and her own place to live.
Conan the Grammarian at November 30, 2010 10:00 AM
Maybe it made a difference for me that I really, REALLY, as in REALLY hate living with other people. Unless you are my dog, I don't want to live under the same roof as you. I would sleep in my car before moving back in with my parents. Back in my early 20s, when I was faced with the choice between getting a roommate and getting a second job, I took the second job.
Pirate Jo at November 30, 2010 10:13 AM
I’m sort of in the same boat as Gretchen, in that I don’t love my job (but I don’t hate it enough to feel like opening a vein), but it pays the bills and I’ll keep it until I figure out something better. I’m writing, and that’s what I’d love to do, but I certainly wouldn’t quit my job to pursue it as a career until I see if I can actually finish a book.. and even then, who knows.
I do remember feeling like college was a complete waste of time and money after I graduated in 2007. I moved to a bigger city about 45 min. drive away from my parents’ home. I had a job lined up there, but after talking to the recruiter I realized I just couldn’t do it. I was not walking around door to door begging for money, which is basically what the job entailed. So, I had no job, and neither did my boyfriend, and that was a big stupid mistake to have an apartment without an income. We were both using our savings, and after two months he got a job in the town that my parents lived in. I was still interviewing and applying for anything that would take me at that point.. which is why I felt like college did nothing for me. Everyone wanted me to have experience, but no one was willing to hire me so I wasn’t sure how to get that experience!
To make a long story short, my parents basically told us we were stupid not to move in with them since his job was in their town and we were wasting money on rent and gas. I didn’t want to move in with my parents, especially after being away for four years, but we did. I did find a job within a week of moving in with them, and we were both working.
I tried to be as little of a burden on my parents as possible. I did cleaning and cooking and began looking for a house to buy. We ended up living with my parents for a year and while I’m NOT proud of it, it did allow us to get a great start in our life together. We were able to pay off our cars, and save up for a large down payment on our house, and our mortgage is cheaper than our rent was.
I don’t know if I fall into the loser 25 year old category because I moved home for a year after school, but I do know that I’m doing quite well now because of it and I’m eternally grateful to my parents. I don’t think it makes them bad parents for allowing it either. I guess I feel like living at home gets a terrible reputation, but it’s not as if I was sitting on my ass eating bon bons while mom did my laundry, which I would agree is complete bullshit.
Angie at November 30, 2010 10:19 AM
y'know, when your kids are small, sometimes they fall down. What comes after that is always most interesting to me... if you are there with them, they look around for YOUR reaction. Like they can't tell if they should be crying or not. UNTIL you react. So, if you run over to them like that little boo-boo is equivalent to having their arm ripped off, that's how they will react. If you look at them and say "you're OK, get up and go wash off the scrape, and then let me look at it..." The reaction is totally different.
Someday you won't be around to mend the scrape, and they need to know how to react to that.
That way off looking at it continues as they grow up, go to school, become adults. They learn self reliance, even though, they know you have their backs. Then they go off and do stuff, on their own. They don't WANT to rely on you for stuff, they want to prove their own life.
At that point it doesn't matter if they are shooting for a corner office or the corner bakery, build bicycles or corporations. It's all them baby.
the problem with slackers is not the slack, it's that you can't tell which one is going to set the world afire and which one is happy never doing more than playing WOW or reading romance novels and leeching off someone. Because sometimes they coincide for a while.
SwissArmyD at November 30, 2010 10:38 AM
I think that people are failing to account for the fact that job inheritance has disappeared in the last 30 years.
100 years ago most families grew up on farms. When the boys came of age, they worked the farm along side their fathers. Farm girls married the farm boys next door ... at an early age.
By the mid 20th century, most people had moved to cities and the industrial revolution was in full swing. When a man came of age he simply put in an application at his father's factory and was hired without question. Girls of factory workers married the factory boys next door ... at an early age.
This existed even for white collar workers. To get a college degree before 1975 was a guaranteed job certificate. You'd get a nice paying job doing almost anything with even the most obtuse degree. And women got their Mrs. degree.
Then came along globalization and feminism. People no longer work 40-50 years for the same company. In fact, your father is probably unemployed right now and his previous company out of business. Most women work now too, further increasing the competition for jobs. So what do you do? You have to do something that your relatives were mostly never faced with ... make a career choice and battle for a job. To expect all 20-somethings to be settled, productive and happy in the 21st century is unrealistic and unattainable.
AllenS at November 30, 2010 10:39 AM
Well, first there's the idea that you need to be doing something meaningful with your work. But meaningful to whom? If you can get someone to pay you to do something, it's meaningful for them, because they'd rather have your services than the money they fork over. You do your small part to keep the world going round, and this in turn keeps food in your fridge and your lights on.
But this isn't a satisfactory answer for a lot of people, because it doesn't feel meaningful to clean a toilet, or unclog a sink, or complete the month-end close for the umpteenth time, or haul yet another load of bagels out of the oven. We think the people with "meaningful" jobs are in the middle of curing cancer, so why couldn't WE be an important person like that?
But you know what? The toilets need to be cleaned, the garbage needs to be hauled away, and yes, cancer needs to be cured, too. But that hasn't happened yet, so how do you think all those important scientists in their little white lab coats feel? Those poor guys have been showing up at the lab for years, straining their eyeballs peering into microscopes, putting more crap on little glass slides, sticking them in the fridge, waiting a month to see what happens, injecting yet a dozen more mice, and STILL no fucking cure for cancer. At least if you haul garbage for a living, you are getting your job done every day.
I say shoot for a job that pays the bills and doesn't suck, and then find enjoyment through the other parts of your life. Find someone to love in this world, do good, and be nice to dogs. If you feel like a personal failure because you don't love your work, then accept that there are only twelve people on the planet who are successful, and another 6.8 billion failures just like you, who just do what they gotta do to get paid. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it.
Pirate Jo at November 30, 2010 11:47 AM
But this isn't a satisfactory answer for a lot of people, because it doesn't feel meaningful to clean a toilet, or unclog a sink
When I was in high school and looking at different careers, a friend of my family, a dentist, made a snide remake about people who cleaned toilets for a living. I reminded him that people like my father cleaning toilets in elementary schools were the reason kids like the dentist's kid weren't peeing in filth.
MonicaP at November 30, 2010 12:04 PM
I'm calling bullshit. Gen-X innovated this trend, not Gen-whatever-you-call-them. Can't we get credit for !$@ anything!
What are they called BTW?
boomleteers?
Gen X Avenger at November 30, 2010 12:11 PM
I live in Portland and the majority of lazy, directionless people (at least in my social circles) come from a pampered upbringing where mommy and daddy give them everything so they've never had to worry about supporting themselves. They work part time and spend the majority of their time partying or planning their next trip somewhere. They talk about doing big things with theur lives but never take steps to accomplish them. I know Portland is big on the whole creative free spirit thing, but it shouldn't be the main focus of your life. There is such a thing as being responsible and taking care of yourself on your own as well.
I'm a bit of a fashion designer, but that unfortunately won't pay my bills and keep me fed so it's a hobby I do in my free time. Someday I may have the ability to turn it into more, but until then I need to work a real job whether it's my true passion or not. That's how it works in the real world!
BunnyGirl at November 30, 2010 12:53 PM
Whenever I see these discussions about people pursuing their "passions" I think of when my father died and I found his diary. He had been a well paid appartchik with the phone company and got his 30 years in..I never thought about his happiness before.
Turned out he had been very unhappy the last 20 years, when younger guys had passed him by for promotion. When he was young he had wanted to write. But you don't give up a good gig like Pac Bell so he hung in there and got a great retirement benefits. But when he was in his 50s he did not know how he could go on from day to day. Then his wife died (my step) just as they were due to retire together and have fun. He was like the walking dead.
My mother (his ex) and my brothers thought him money-obsessed. Funny thing was, he ended up supporting my brothers (and their kids) when both of them lost their jobs in the 90s and never worked again. Maybe he enabled those choices, I don't know.
Anyway, whenever I think of quitting my day job to pursue some "passion" or other, I think of him. Passion is overrated.
carol at November 30, 2010 1:10 PM
I live in Portland and the majority of lazy, directionless people (at least in my social circles) come from a pampered upbringing where mommy and daddy give them everything so they've never had to worry about supporting themselves.
If their moms became Jehovah's Witnesses, they'd probably get a lot more interested in supporting themselves. Worked for me! ;-)
Pirate Jo at November 30, 2010 1:42 PM
Gretchen, apparently we're very similar. I'm 28, went to college like a good girl, made good grades, and wound up parlaying my part-time gig into a full-time one. Five years later, I've reached the highest I can go in this profession (librarianship) without a Masters. And even with a Masters, there's very little room for promotion. So I'm stuck for right now, with no prospects in sight, because the economy sucks and I haven't done anything but library work for most of my adult life.
In addition to the things people have brought up so far, I've really begun to resent college. For my parents, it was "College is a Guaranteed Job". And so I went. I did Writing, because everyone told me it didn't really matter what you majored in, because it was a Guaranteed Job. And at the end, nobody could tell me what I could do. To this day, I have no idea what college really did for me. I took plenty of classes that I enjoyed, but don't really serve me (except that I rock at Jeopardy now). But my advisors, the six or so times I went begging "What do I do after this", did little more than pat my hand, suggest Graduate school, or gave me a book to read. There was little that matches the experiences I've had in the real world that college even approached.
I think we'd be doing a lot more for our children if we dropped a few of the BS electives from our high schools and instead made classes like "Handling Your Insurance", "Job Hunting for A Career", and "What the Hell They Mean When They Say 'Networking'."
And AllenS makes some *EXCELLENT* points about the new job market. In addition to globalization, feminism, and no job inheritance, nobody is retiring anymore. Most of the BabyBoomers intend to work far past 65. My co-workers at my job right now are almost all entirely between 50 - 70. There are only a handful below that. And when layoffs get talked about (as they've done every year since I started), it's always the guys with seniority who know they're safe. And the ones with seniority are those who are 62 & 65, versus the youngbloods like me. If the layoffs come, with my measly five years of service (which is a big deal when you're only 28), I'm out the door.
For the record, my twenty-something friends live mostly hand-to-mouth. Most live on their own, but few have "careers" versus jobs they have to do. Most work retail in some form or fashion. They don't know how to job hunt for something better. Or they can't afford to drop the $8.50 and job security to risk it on a job found on the ever-reliable Monster.com. Quite a few can't even promote up in these retail jobs, because the competition from older, more established employees is fierce and no one chances it on a young guy. Those are the experiences I'm seeing around me, in any case.
cornerdemon at November 30, 2010 2:01 PM
"Anyway, whenever I think of quitting my day job to pursue some "passion" or other, I think of him. Passion is overrated."
Carol I think you've hit this oen on the nose. 20 somethings have seen their parents sacrifice dreams and passions for a paycheck. They've seen that sacrifice rewarded with slashed benefits, reduced pay, and raided pension funds. And collectively they concluded that they are not willing to sacrifce 1/3 of their most productive years for a paycheck.
I'll admit I'm part of this group by inclination and demographic both. I don't want to wait forty years to be able to enjoy my life. I don't want to punch a clock for eight hours a day. Now I'm lucky enough to know what my passion is and to have a way to turn it into profit, but not everyone is.
Elle at November 30, 2010 2:42 PM
"I think 20 somethings have a distorted view of work, that it should be their passion and anything less means their work is pointless."
Bingo.
Unfortunately also, a college education is no guarantee of a college track career unless you are a skilled professional in a field that is hurting for talented people. in this respect the 20 somethings have been lied to by the educational establishment that is about as ethical as your local sleazy sub prime mortgage broker. A lot of people are waving college degrees around these days that are meaningless pieces of paper that will get them nowhere. You can put it on the wall next to your kindergarten graduation photo. :-) Depending on the major it is not even a guarantee of basic literacy. Times are not nearly tough enough yet for people (all generations) to be uncomfortable enough to motivate themselves to literally take any job. I know a number of young people, my son included, who is doing very well financially, but my son also spent three years in the Army growing up. My daughter is less directed but is starting to see a clear path ahead to a career. Her grandmother has coddled her a little more than I would but we are getting there.
Isabel1130 at November 30, 2010 3:41 PM
I guess this is the benefit of living in the DC area. All the 20-somethings I know work very hard and are willing to sacrifice a lot. None of them live at home.
However, I think because of the nature of this city, it attracts people who really are doing what they love and/or believe in. The 20-somethings here are willing to be paid 28K a year and live in a two bedroom apartment with 4 other people because they feel they are really making a difference in the world.
I'm sure there are plenty of whiny, spoiled 20 somethings out there, but at least in the circles we run in here, we don't see any.
Having said that, however, I think college is such a waste of time. Yes, in today's world a degree is most often necessary, but I understand why people come out of college with no direction. There's a difference between education and training.
UW Girl at November 30, 2010 4:19 PM
You know, all of these problems could be solved overnight if we'd just suck it up and start gassing the boomers. They're the ones that caused this mess, and now they're dragging us all down so that they don't have to face the consequences of their actions.
Boomer Hater at November 30, 2010 4:50 PM
Yeah... Right.
Listen, everybody hates Billy Joel, but....
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at November 30, 2010 4:55 PM
I don't think there is a one-size-fits all answer. Yes, I know some twentysomething slackers who regarded school as a four-year party. I also know some who are diligent workers with marketable degrees, and they can't find work. The under-30 demographic has been one of the hardest hit by the Obama economy. Young people are the group most dependent on new job creation, and right now that simply isn't happening.
I have a nephew, circa 25, who is in a bit of a drift. No, he didn't have an upper-middle-class upbringing; in fact, his childhood pretty much sucked. He got good grades in school and went for a military job which would put his talents to good use, but wound up washing out of that. Right now he's working, but at a job way below his skill level. It's a bit frustrating because he's capable of more, but I understand that he has issues yet to work out. I was in that position once, albeit at about five years younger, so I understand. He needs a bit of space to find his own way, and a certain amount of patience is called for. At least he's supporting himself.
Cousin Dave at November 30, 2010 6:26 PM
The 20-somethings here are willing to be paid 28K a year and live in a two bedroom apartment with 4 other people because they feel they are really making a difference in the world.
Same in NYC, except for the hipsters in Williamsburg. The only reason I had my own place in my 20s was because I got a great deal on a rent-stabilized apartment. I'm not that far removed from my 20s and have some younger friends in that age group, and they are working hard for slave wages and living with multiple roommates because they expect it to lead to something better.
Every generation bitches about those slacker kids. I think this generation will be fine.
MonicaP at November 30, 2010 6:51 PM
Portland,huh? Wanna see a bunch of "free spirits" with a Peter Pan complex? Come to Austin. I've called several cities home (Milwaukee, St. Louis, DC), and Austin has, by far, the biggest "I'll never grow up" attitude.
I agree with UW Girl. A lot of people in DC are pretentious as all get-out, but they know how to HUSTLE.
sofar at November 30, 2010 7:31 PM
I think we'll be more than fine, I think we'll be better. Hipsters may stand out but they are not the majority. And I do not think passion is over-rated, I just think you need to balance it with some practicality. (I mean, would your dad have done the same thing all over again?) I'm going to work until I die so I'm going to make sure my career is something worthwhile that I enjoy a majority of the time.
Sam at November 30, 2010 7:37 PM
Find someone to love in this world, do good, and be nice to dogs.
This is totally gonna be my new mantra.
As for my own experience, I'm 27. I've had 7 apartments in the past 4 years, moved around a lot, lived in 4 cities and just finished up a graduate degree in what many consider a "useless" field. So I may just be the poster child for 20-something drifters.
But, as Kristen already talked about, you still gotta pay your bills. I may be a transient, but I've always tried to be a responsible one and pay my way.
My dream job after college was only part-time and paid badly, so I got a FT day job I HATED (for health insurance and rent). I bided my time, saved money and got some scholarships in a row to pay for grad school (while getting a lot of shananigans out of my system). I quit my job(s)at 25 and moved to DC to go to school and intern. I rented a closet-sized room (which I shared with roaches) and then moved into a group house, where the roof leaked, but where rent was cheap. And, again, I got a lot of shananigans out of my system.
And now, I'm in Austin, with a full-time job that I like OK. I'll give it a go and see how it works out.
To my mother, I am not successful. I do not have a house (I live with my boyfriend in a tiny apartment). I am not married. I don't have children or plans for having them. "Planning for the future" means planning my next trip. But I pay my bills, live without debt, and I save money like CRAZY so that my life choices don't cost anyone else ANYTHING.
In short: do whatever you want, however old you are. But PAY your own WAY.
sofar at November 30, 2010 7:54 PM
"A lot of people in DC are pretentious as all get-out, but they know how to HUSTLE."
What is the product DC produces again...?
Oh, that is right. All that hustle? It is other people's money involved.
/respect machine shut down
Spartee at November 30, 2010 8:10 PM
Do I think it's okay to waste 25 years of your life being directionless? No. But if you're going to take a few years to figure out who you are and who you want to be, much better that you do it in your 20s when you are single, child-free and mortgage-less. At least some of those 26-year-olds who were navigating career landmines in 1964 turned into 36-year-olds who burned their bras and left their husbands to become self-actualized. Give me the 26-year-old living in an attic who gets a career and a life by 36 any day.
That was me. It didn't take quite that long, but I had a corporate job in my 20s and fell into advice. The thing is, I was very, very independent (I left University of Michigan a year early thanks to a scholarship I got by writing something and finished my last year at NYU). I did it because I was dying to be in New York. I got out there at the Port Authority and was terrified somebody would mug me, stayed at the 45th Street (46th? and Vanderbilt) Y, and then lived in a room so small that many people in Los Angeles would thumb their nose at it for a closet. But, I did all of this, and got two jobs all myself (although my parents paid the cost of Michigan's tuition, and I paid costs beyond that and my scholarship for living). At one point, I slept on a door and worked as a bike messenger and a mover because I'd left my corporate job to become a writer and was short on freelance jobs. It was tough, but it was all me, and looking back, it was fun and satisfying as hell.
Amy Alkon at November 30, 2010 11:36 PM
The under-30 demographic has been one of the hardest hit by the Obama economy.
Yet most of them voted for him.
Pirate Jo at December 1, 2010 6:45 AM
@Spartee
Please don't generalize. Not everyone in DC is a US Senator. I'm a nurse. One friend works for Amnesty International. Another works for the American Diabetes Association fundraising for Juvenile Diabetes research. Another friend is counsel for Catholic Charities. And the friends that I have that do work in Congress, both Democrat and Republican, are good people who do their jobs because they believe in helping this country become a better place.
Just as every woman in LA isn't a dumb blonde with silicone implants, not everyone in DC is a dishonest politician.
UW Girl at December 1, 2010 7:19 AM
Truth, UW Girl. I didn't know a single politician in DC. Most of my friends worked for small salaries (and long hours) for non-profits. And spent the rest of their "spare" time working as wait staff to pay the rent.
Re-reading my comment, I guess I may have been a bit unfair about Austin. There are a TON of creative-types here and there is an amazing, contagious spirit of entrepreneurism. I know a gal who is baking pies out of her kitchen and growing her business word-of-mouth while working long hours at a diner. This city has an incredible, supportive culture of local businesses (very few chains).
sofar at December 1, 2010 10:24 AM
To my mother, I am not successful. I do not have a house (I live with my boyfriend in a tiny apartment). I am not married. I don't have children or plans for having them. "Planning for the future" means planning my next trip. But I pay my bills, live without debt, and I save money like CRAZY so that my life choices don't cost anyone else ANYTHING.
I think that if planning for the future means planning your next trip, you are very successful indeed. And it takes guts to share a room with cockroaches! Maybe your mom has a very narrow and blinkered idea of what success means, but she might also be jealous of how fearless a risk-taker you are.
Anyway, glad you like your new mantra. :-)
Pirate Jo at December 1, 2010 2:11 PM
You know, all of these problems could be solved overnight if we'd just suck it up and start gassing the boomers.
"Run, runner"
lujlp at December 1, 2010 2:39 PM
"Every generation bitches about those slacker kids. I think this generation will be fine."
Their biggest problem is that an awful lot of them have been mis-parented and mal-educated. They're having to raise themselves.
Cousin Dave at December 1, 2010 6:19 PM
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