This is the easiest charge to get agreement from multinational authorities. If you need someone moved by cops, charge them with a sex crime.

Worse stories appear on Jerry Springer.

It is women like these who give feminism a bad name.

If this story is as it's now being reported (and right now I'm not sure which reports to trust, this whole story has been so bizarre), it's yet another example of the left eating their own. Clearly the women are using the law to extract a personal revenge. It's had to feel sorry for the likes of Assange, but if it can be done to him, it can be much more easily done to an ordinary bloke.

Feminism deserves a bad name.

Feminism is a hate ideology.

I have seen this sort of situation play out in proceedings involving formal charges before.

This sounds very much like an instance of consensual sex being turned into a sexual crime because a participant decides, well after the fact, that (s)he is not entirely happy with their post-sexual-encounter feelings about the experience.

The person may have feelings of shame, anger, humiliation, disappointment, or whatever that arise, for whatever reason. Those feelings, which scare the person, must be blamed on some external source, because the person feeling them wants them to go away. A woman (or young gay teen) claiming some sort of non-consensual flavor to an encounter can usually count on (1) a sudden sympathetic interest from others, who see the person as a victim, thus raising their status instantly, and (2) possible interest by law enforcement sensitized into doing something about such instances.

Putting it a bit too simply, if someone is angry about being the college quarterback's one-night stand rather than his new LTR love interest, scaring the @#$% out of the quarterback with a quasi-rape charge can suddenly sound perfectly reasonable and appealing.

Add in intense international pressure to do *something*--anything!--to this guy, and you pretty much have a witch hunt.

>>It is women like these who give feminism a bad name.

Not so, Nick - unless you have tunnel vision.
Like Cousin Dave, I'm having trouble assessing which reports are trustworthy but this increasingly bizarre story seems to be giving Sweden's sex crime laws a bad name.

This offense appears only to exist in Sweden!
http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-heart-of-julian-assange-criminal-probe/19741444

(Odder still, Radwaste apparently watches Jerry Springer!)

It's their system, straight from some feminist college code of conduct run amok. Who would have thought that some guy who decides to leak classified information couldn't be trusted? Really? Ladies?

I find it interesting that Interpol is involved. Could the Obama administration be applying the pressure?

I'm hoping it ends well. It would be too bad if he couldn't take the pressure, and ended it all in his cell. The Afghans whose names he released aren't likely to have it even that good.

Not so, Nick - unless you have tunnel vision.

Indeed, unless we pretend that men never got falsely accused of such things before feminism. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, feminism has become synonymous with "anytime a man gets a bad rap." Which is lazy.

Regret is not rape.

You gave sex freely at the time. Just because now your feelings are hurt and you have negative feelings about him doesn't make the act itself rape.

I'm assuming you didn't give him the dossier of your sexual history, and he didn't give you his.

Stop being a little girl and be a grown up woman and live with YOUR decisions.

This is the classic "woman scorned."

I have a slightly different take, more in line with Radwaste.

First thing I thought of was how they got Al Capone for tax evasion when they couldn't get him for murder or robbery.

Get it?

It doesn't sound like these women are the ones pushing for prosecution, so the hate should be directed where it belongs - with the prosecutors, and with the US government, who is putting tremendous pressure on Sweden to take Assange into custody. According to the reports I've read, sex by surprise is a misdemeanor punishable by a $750 fine. All this rape, molestation, sexual assault business seems like the work of over-enthusiastic prosecutors responding to the pressure to "get" Assange, since he's apparently such a bad guy.

(If anyone can name concrete harm that the US has suffered because of Wikileaks, I'm all ears. Frankly, I think it's significantly helped our international position - now everyone knows that even other Middle Eastern states want Iran disarmed.)

>> It doesn't sound like these women are the ones pushing for prosecution

You're wrong, they are. Look at their quotes.

Sweden is a very weird country when it comes to the rights of men. They have an active campaign to make it a crime to pee standing up, for instance. There are wide spread gender quotas, such as being forced to take on female partners when your business reaches a certain size. Their welfare system is very preferential towards women. They also have a hardline Feminist party in parliament that supports all sorts of crazy legislation against men.

>>This is the classic "woman scorned."

Seriously, David M?

You are, presumably, following this multi-pronged Wikileaks story as it pricks (politically) the right, then the left and then everyone in between and it all boils down for you to some bitching broad with hurt feelings?

Like CB, I am so very curious: what is the reason for the extraordinary pressure NOW to get Assange safely tidied away?

Is it in the dox already dumped - or in those, apparently, coming down the pike?

"It's their system, straight from some feminist college code of conduct run amok. "

Swedish law has no connection with US campus codes of cionduct. Get a clue.

"It doesn't sound like these women are the ones pushing for prosecution, so the hate should be directed where it belongs - with the prosecutors, and with the US government, who is putting tremendous pressure on Sweden to take Assange into custody."

Exactly. These women and whatever feminst groups they belong to don't begin to have the juice to get an Interpol warrant on somebody, and certainly not on the main charge of not using a condom.

In fact when the women made their complaint it was on that lesser charge. The Swedish prosecutor called them back in and increased the charges.

I don't doubt that the US is putting pressure on Sweden, but it's not like they're any kind of ally or all that cooperative with the US.They have their own reasons. These leaks make the whole diplomatic world look stupid and corrupt, and that's blasphemy in Sweden.

In fact these leaks put the US in a fairly good light, aside form the ones that get people killed who have been working with us. There's a buzz that if the US didn't arange all this, we should have. Our diplomats look smart and sharp, and everyone else look venal and hypocritical. Even left-wing papers are saying this in Britain.

>> In fact, the current prosecutor, Marianne Ny, who re-opened the case against Assange, has been active in the proposed reforms of Swedish rape laws that would, if passed, involve an investigation of whether an imbalance in power between two people could void one person's insistence that the sex was consensual.

So now all celebrities and wealthy people are rapists, and their groupies are victims?

hug, to which quotes are you referring? I've read a number of articles on the subject, and haven't seen anything where either woman said "I want this man locked up." I might have missed that, of course, but please do point out the quotes that show that these women are pushing for serious prosecution.

And Pricklypear, yeah, we get it: you believe that the rule of law is irrelevant as long as the target has already been judged guilty by the mob. Very noble, and not at all the sort of attitude that leads directly to tyranny!

Excuse me, CB? Jump to conclusions much?

So an observation on what I think is going on with
Assange means that is what I agree with or believe in. Huh.

"... and with the US government, who is putting tremendous pressure on Sweden to take Assange into custody. "

Well, I'd like to say that the American government would never do a thing like that... but I wasn't born yesterday. On the other hand, I'm not sure the government of Sweden is going to be in a big hurry to do the U.S. government any favors. So I don't have a good read on that one way or the other.

"If anyone can name concrete harm that the US has suffered because of Wikileaks, I'm all ears. "

The weird thing is, it was the earlier batch of Bradley Manning's stuff that Wikileaks released that did all the harm. Several of our informants in Afghanistan are dead because of it, and some other useful sources of info were compromised. But this latest batch has been the one that has drawn all the outrage, even though it is pretty ho-hum by comparison.

Nick feminism hasn't done much to deserve a good name in the first place.

------------

Far as the rest goes, frankly I don't know why anyone listens to feminists anymore. You have only to listen to them to realize it isn't worth the risk to have sex with them. Its not worth the risk of a lawsuit to hire them, and it isn't worth the almost certain result of a battery or domestic abuse charge during divorce to marry them.

>>The weird thing is, it was the earlier batch of Bradley Manning's stuff that Wikileaks released that did all the harm. Several of our informants in Afghanistan are dead because of it, and some other useful sources of info were compromised.

Cousin Dave,
Do you happen to have a specific link for that (100% non-snarky request) - and I do NOT expect death certificates! I just mean from a passably plausible source?

Here's what I've read regarding the charges:

According to a description of the allegations read in a London courtroom on Tuesday, Swedish authorities said one of the women alleges that Mr. Assange forcibly held her arms and legs, preventing her from moving, and had sexual intercourse with her without using a condom despite knowing it was a prerequisite for her. The other woman alleges that Mr. Assange had sex with her while she was asleep, again failing to wear a condom despite knowing she required it.

Held her down and had forcible sex with her w/o a condom? Did it without a condom while she was sleeping? I call both rape.

Link is here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703493504576007182352309942.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLETopStories

> Not so, Nick - unless you have tunnel vision.
> [...] this increasingly bizarre story seems
> to be giving Sweden's sex crime laws
> a bad name.

Dodge! Weave! Feint! Pretend!

I doubt there's another human soul who looks at the interest the British and Swedish states has taken in Assange, and the international source of that interest, and thinks 'Golly, the Swedes got a problem in their britches!' As if something calling itself feminism weren't the naked, shivering pretext of these events.

But it's fun to know you're thinking that way about it.
__________________________

Truth is, with extension of the Bush Tax Cuts, a lot of twisted thinking from recent years is being undercut this week. IT'S A HORRIBLE TIME, and I don't mean to say otherwise, but at least there's a lot of I-told-you-so fulfillment to be had at competitive prices.

Pricklypear, if I misunderstood your comment, I sincerely apologize for my response; I genuinely thought that you were expressing support for that tactic (trumping up unrelated charges) in going after Assange. So do you think the way he's being pursued is appropriate?

Best thing said about Assange on this blog to date was this unknown commenter:

What I love about this whole thing is that Julian Assange frosts his hair. He's like the maniacal villain from the Ice Capades.

And our government is terrified! It want's you to be terrified, too!

well, as for governments pushing this stuff...
nah. These sorts of charges are like an avalanche, all it takes is a pebble falling. especially for the erzatz int'l man of mystery Assange... since he freely left the country and suchlike. If he was Sven from down the block, it would be different. Interpol is involved because he left. Things are just magnified by this guy's stature on the world stage these 15 minutes, and the quirks of Swedish law. Remember that he was seeking residency there because of some law that would help him. It may well be murphy's law coincidence that this is happening. Or it may be pressure put on various things by various people.

IF there is a group predisposed to getting upset, it doesn't take much of a whisper in their ear to start that avalanche.

As a guess, first chica had serious stars in her eyes, and huge expectations of St. Julian the Loudmouth... and when it turned out that he was just like any other guy? And then when he moved right on to another woman? she dropped the pebble.

I'm sure in some circles this is just going to raise boyo's street cred. I doubt if it will hurt his stature.

That's why we shouldn't be putting ANY pressure on if the govt. is. the avalanche is already in motion.

"Held her down and had forcible sex with her w/o a condom? Did it without a condom while she was sleeping? I call both rape."

I'd agree with you on that, kishke, but I have a really hard time believing that that's what happened. If the allegations were that clear cut, why were the charges dropped by Swedish prosecutors in the first place? Why didn't the first woman press charges on her own, rather than just going to the police station with the other woman as backup? And why didn't the Swedish authorities use the word "rape" in their charges in British court yesterday?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B669H20101207

^Very illuminating account of the way in which charges were brought.

I just don't believe these two women.

Sounds like buyers remorse and the followup about his having used physical force is tacked on afterwards to allow the charging of a greater crime.

I know one thing for sure, I have a new motive to video tape every sexual encounter I ever have. 'l'

If rape is now being defined as failure to wear a condom, I wonder if I can get charged with rape for forgetting to take a birth control pill. It's a slippery slope, right?

On the other hand, if the account Kishke quoted is accurate then a rape did occur and should be prosecuted. But who knows? The problem with any rape charge is there's always going to be a element of he-said she-said and because of that there is frequently going to be miscarriages of justice. We can debate the laws and principles but ultimately it's almost impossible to know the truth behind a specific accusation.

Don't just read the blog item, read the whole story at the link. The WSJ account is just reporting from reporting. Also, how does somebody have sex with you while you're "asleep." I can put my head down on my laptop a table in a cafe and take a catnap, but if some man's penis is entering me, I'm going to wake up.

(Oh, if only we could freeze this moment in amber.... Because a setup line like that is a once-in-a-bloglife opportunity, and it deserves to be answered by a truly gifted comedian.)

No, CB, I don't think it's appropriate. I think it's bullshit. I disapprove. I also think it might work.

I also disapprove of Assange. I'm ambivalent about Wikileaks, but I can't help but feel that if he's brought down by a woman it's his own damned fault.

Also, how does somebody have sex with you while you're "asleep" ... if some man's penis is entering me, I'm going to wake up.

And perhaps she did wake up, and perhaps protested, and perhaps struggled, but the deed was done. Not so difficult to imagine. Maybe Assange gets his business done chop-chop.

I can put my head down on my laptop a table in a cafe and take a catnap, but if some man's penis is entering me, I'm going to wake up.

I suspect he's never had sex with either woman. either that or he's got a very small dick.

But my first impression was that he's never had sex with either of them, or any other woman for that matter. Which is why the case was dropped the first time.

This is only tangentially related to wikileaks. Assange is nouveau famous. And now some bint in Sweden has found a way to advance her career (and possibly her political agenda) by using a man who is an international hero/pariah as a patsy, and a pair of fellow activists are along for the ride.

Sweden just got its own O.J. trial.

Oh, and Manning will likely hang for what he's done. Not being a citizen of the US, Assange is really only guilty of receiving stolen goods. But damn, he's one arrogant prick, ain't he? I'd really like to see him post leaked documents from Russia and Iran's nuke talks. Then I'd believe he's really in it for truth, and not to fuck the US over.

Unless you're seriously drunk or drugged. But (so far) they aren't claiming that.

Jody, I'm going to have to retract my previous comment... although I'm finding dozens of articles stating that the July Wikileaks dump compromised informants and that the Taliban is now vowing to hunt them down, I can't find any report saying that any of them have actually been killed. Although such a killing could have happened and would not necessarily make the news, I can't substantiate that any such has actually occurred. I'll keep looking. I still think my basic point is valid -- the July dump did a lot more harm than this most recent one.

@CB try British sources. One of the accusers is Anna Ardin, who is Sweden's answer to Catharine MacKinnon, though her politics are even weirder. She's made a number of public statements about Assange and the need for his prosecution. She's the one who persuaded the younger woman to go to the police. They filed charges together.

Why Assange thought that it would be a good idea to sleep with a woman like Ardin is beyond me. Perhaps he didn't know about her background?

I'd really like to see him post leaked documents from Russia and Iran's nuke talks. Then I'd believe he's really in it for truth, and not to fuck the US over.

As much as he claims to be the reluctant public face of WikiLeaks, he's really in it only for himself.

Victor Davis Hanson's take on Assange:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/254824/julian-assange-s-egoleaks-victor-davis-hanson

Julian Assange is a narcissist. Like all self-absorbed egos who deny their selfishness, he protests that he wished WikiLeaks to remain an anonymously run, collective effort — while he ensured that it most certainly would not be, as he jetted the globe, giving dozens of media interviews, leveling threats, pontificating about world leaders who should resign, and promising to drop embarrassing megatonnage of gossip should he, Julian Assange, ever be charged.

Julian Assange has more or less ensured that WikiLeaks would be synonymous with Julian Assange and that he would be its man-of-the-year face on Time magazine. Like all narcissists, when reminded that his recklessness will lead to violence, mayhem, and deaths, he dismisses such dangers as insignificant in comparison to the benevolence that he bestows. Note how easily a computer hacker with a criminal record has established himself as judge, jury, and executioner on behalf of world truth. When he says, “I have become a lightning rod,” he means, “I am the Lady Gaga of leaking.”

Hiya Jody! Fun new headline selcted by Google News (no human editors!):

Lawyer: Assange Faces 'Tough Climate' in Feminist-Friendly Sweden

AOL News
- ‎14 minutes ago‎

> Victor Davis Hanson's take on Assange:
>
> Julian Assange is a narcissist.

What is this crazyness? Have people's brain's been blended to slush by Dancing with the Stars or something? Even VHD?

Does any sane person seriously content that the meaning of this event is contained in interpersonal judgments of this one individual? People seem to think that we've all just watched an episode of TMZ and are trying to decide whether we liked it or not, especially the scene where the young actor got in a scuffle outside the nightclub.

Golly! Turns out that Paris Hilton is really a mean-spirited pee-eye-tee-see-ache! And Julian Assange? Well, he's nothing but a selfish little creep!

Ah well... Tomorrow night we'll go with Wheel of Fortune, OK? That little Vanna girl sure knows how to wear a cocktail dress, if you know what I mean! ♥ ♥ ♥

...And then we can talk about the tax cuts.

@hug, I've been reading plenty of British coverage, and still haven't seen any quotes from either woman suggesting that they want him aggressively prosecuted and locked up. Anna Ardin is indeed an activist, but if she's made so many public statements about Assange needing to be prosecuted, you should be able to come up with at least one of them to support your claim.

I have, however, seen lots of stuff like this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/aug/22/wikileaks-julian-assange-sweden

"One of two women involved told Aftonbladet in an interview published today that she had never intended Assange to be charged with rape. She was quoted as saying: "It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him.""

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307137/Supporters-dismissed-rape-accusations-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange--women-involved-tell-different-story.html

"Woman A said afterwards that she had not wanted to press charges but had gone to support the younger woman, who wanted police advice on how to get Assange to take a medical test.

All of this just reinforces the idea that these two women are not at fault for this mess - this is a matter of governmental misconduct, and Assange's leaving the country before this minor charge could be investigated. That's what gave Interpol and the US gov't all the traction they've got now.

>>People seem to think that we've all just watched an episode of TMZ and are trying to decide whether we liked it or not, especially the scene where the young actor got in a scuffle outside the nightclub.

Crid,
SNL (the one just gone with De Niro hosting rather awkwardly - though he was looking amazing, I thought) actually had a sketch with Assange as the TMZ guy and the showbiz items featuring politicians in titillating/sordid scandelettes - introduced by TMZ-style morons.
It almost worked very well.

Cousin Dave,
Thank you for checking for a likely link anyway, That was truly decent.

I have read not one but two editorials in the Wall Street Journal, making points based upon Wikileaks leaked cables. One op-ed stated Argentina covers up drug money, yet another example of why the hopelessness of the war on drugs. The other had to do with China's backing of N Korea.

Personally, I found it revealing and interesting that Saudi Arabia wants Iran bombed.

I would say the public is benefitting from the increased understanding of what's going on. We deserve this information.

This important point seems lost.

Yes, rape charges filed long after a "rape" are always dubious. These rape charges appear particularly spurious. Something about torn condoms falling off. Jeez, that's a rape? One report has Mr. Wikileaks in bed with four women in four days. The guy is a Lothario, but so what?

> It almost worked very well.

SNL now contends with Star Trek as a media venture that needs to die.... To die, die, die. Listen, late-boomer media consumers have a lot to apologize for... Successive generations have taken some of that stuff waaaaaayyyyy too seriously. We were children when this stuff appeared, and some of us had been smoking dope. We just wanted to kick off our shoes and chill, OK? There's no reason for this stuff to still be getting anyone's attention.

"Personally, I found it revealing and interesting that Saudi Arabia wants Iran bombed."

It's payback - for the River of Revenge (500,000 Shia Muslims in Iran killed by Saudi munitions during Iraq war - Saudi's backed Saddam).

Iran is scoping out Saudi oil fields (as well as in Turkey). Turkey just gave tons of aid to Israel for the fire relief effort. Iran get's nukes going and its a loose loose for other ME states.

Not very surprising, actually. Iran is a loose canon and the ME knows that. If a war breaks out, we will all be envious of Amy's choice of car - gas will become unfordable and everyday commodities (food, clothing, etc) will increase exponentially.

And these charges against Assange - waaaay too convenient.

"The guy is a Lothario, but so what?"

I was thinking Caligula - with the weird hair and all.

It seems like "an opportunity" is the real deal -- to game the system and act vindictively against a man.

Maybe. But I've read a summary of the relevant Swedish law, and I wouldn't call it "gaming" the system, unless you mean "the system was gamed when the legislation passed".

Assange seems to have forgotten that when in Rome.... Some countries actually try to enforce their laws. Unlike some I could name...

So it's a cowinky-dink. It's Cowinky-doodle. It's Happenstance-ville, it's Conjunction City. It's a purely random distribution of uniformly improbable phenomena that stinks to High Heaven.

OK then!

Aggie, I saw an interesting opinion earlier today... that maybe the CIA or MI5 or someone did game this system, but if they did so, it was because Swedish law made the game ridiculously easy.