(Squirt) Gun Control?!
Why not just outlaw childhood, right after you ban fun? The Hawaiian state House of Representatives is considering a bill to outlaw the sale of toy guns to minors. The proposed bill:
SECTION 1. Chapter 709, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to be appropriately designated and to read as follows: "§709- Sale of toy guns to minors prohibited. (1) It shall be unlawful to sell, attempt to sell, or offer for sale a toy gun to a minor under eighteen years of age......(2) Any person who violates this section shall be subject to a fine of not more than $2,000, imprisonment of not more than ninety days, or both."
Status is here. Yep, it's current.
via Free Range Kids
UPDATE: Eugene Volokh e-mailed me and commented on Instapundit (thanks for the link, Glenn!):
I wonder whether the suggestion that squirt guns are being "outlawed" -- even if somewhat hyperbolic -- is quite apt. As I read the proposed statute, it simply means that children can't buy the toy guns themselves, but need to have parents (or other adults) to buy them for them. (Do minors even buy a lot of toy guns themselves? I would think most toy gun users don't do much of their own toy-buying.) I'm not sure the law is a good idea, but it seems pretty different from "outlawing." And I think many readers' first impression would be that there really is a ban on squirt guns, and not just a requirement that they be channeled through parents.
I wrote back to Eugene:
No, a 5-year-old probably isn't going to be going to the store by himself, but if a 15-year-old wants to buy herself a squirt gun, I don't think we should be stopping her. (I bought myself a squirt gun when I was a teen -- still have it in my kitchen drawer right here!)
James Taranto emailed Glenn:
"If squirt guns are outlawed, only outlaw squirts will have guns!"
Count me in!
This is just an attempt to poison the well. They know perfectly well that responsible gun owners won't give up their guns. So they are targeting the younger generation. Get that generation to see guns as something inherently evil, so they won't buy them as adults, and there will be no need to pass any gun control legislation.
Steve at February 1, 2011 4:51 AM
Jonathan Rauch wrote a piece a while back on how those parents who won't let their little boys have toy guns have those kids make them -- out of their fingers, carrot sticks, etc.
My friend C. told me about a kid who wasn't allowed to have toy guns, who came to her house to play, and came down when his mom came to pick him up in full combat regalia carrying a toy machine gun. Mom was horrified.
Amy Alkon at February 1, 2011 5:37 AM
Well when they're not doing this, they're busing trying to create an Apartheid state, so perhaps it's an improvement. Hawaii is a very pretty third world country where the USA parks its boats.
Jj at February 1, 2011 5:47 AM
I was always more into toy guns (wnated to be a little cowgirl :-)) than my brother growing up. He and his wife kept my nephew away from toy guns but lo and behold, he came out one day shooting...with a caulking gun. :-)
Catherine at February 1, 2011 6:02 AM
My brothers and I and most of our friends have always had BB guns and air pellet guns. My girls are learning to shoot at a range, and they're both pretty damn good, too! As long as you teach kids SAFETY first, there should be no problems. Notice I said "should". But the bottom line is that guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people. I don't know why these people don't get it. If someone wants to kill you, they'll use whatever they can get their hands on. Should we outlaw knives, bats, cars, glass bottles, and all other implments of destruction, too?
Flynne at February 1, 2011 6:21 AM
You hit the nail on the head Steve! Little by little, bit by bit.
nuzltr2 at February 1, 2011 6:23 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/02/01/squirt_gun_cont.html#comment-1834805">comment from CatherineHe and his wife kept my nephew away from toy guns but lo and behold, he came out one day shooting...with a caulking gun. :-)
Love that image!
I learned to shoot a beebee gun at Camp Michigania (family camp for nerds) when I was about 8.
Amy Alkon at February 1, 2011 6:34 AM
We were never allowed to have toy guns growing up (of course we were girls so not as big a deal). My dad thought they set bad precedent of teaching kids that guns were toys. So my sister and I had to settle for an air rifle, a .22, a deer rifle, and a 9mm as we grew up. We had a lot of good times at the firing range.
Elle at February 1, 2011 6:48 AM
Up here in Idaho, my 6 year old boy just got his shooting badge in Boy Scouts, which I object to.
He can't hit the side of a barn.
Eric at February 1, 2011 8:01 AM
In my neighborhood we used sticks for guns and dirt clods or corn cobs (seasonal) for hand grenades. A direct hit from a dirt clod or corn cob hurt like the dickens.
Roger at February 1, 2011 8:04 AM
This does not stop adults from buying toy guns and giving them to kids. Most kids don't buy their own toys, what a waste of taxpayers dollars.
anita Rios at February 1, 2011 8:18 AM
So where does this leave guns for games like Nintendo? We wouldn't have been able to play Duck Hunt when I was a kid! This is really dumb.
Jessica F. at February 1, 2011 8:31 AM
Seems to me the trick is not to make a mountain out of a molehill.
That is, if kids want toy guns (including squirt guns) let THEM pay for them. That should make them think twice - sometimes. (For obvious reasons, any toy that looks like a REAL gun from 20 feet away or so would not be allowed at all.)
Otherwise, just keep your cool and chances are, they'll outgrow it.
lenona at February 1, 2011 8:36 AM
Seems to me the trick is not to make a mountain out of a molehill.
That is, if kids want toy guns (including squirt guns) let THEM pay for them. That should make them think twice - sometimes. (For obvious reasons, any toy that looks like a REAL gun from 20 feet away or so would not be allowed at all.)
Otherwise, just keep your cool and chances are, they'll outgrow it.
lenona at February 1, 2011 8:44 AM
While Christmas shopping last year, I watched a little boy pull a three-pack of wrapping paper rolls out of a bin, get down on one knee, position the paper on his shoulder and yell at his brother "Load! Load!"
I don't know much about the loading of bazookas, but I thought it was pretty funny in any case.
Pricklypear at February 1, 2011 9:27 AM
$2,000!!! Sounds like Hawaii must be low on funds...
NicoleK at February 1, 2011 9:49 AM
Steve is correct. Fear of the unknown and "eeevil", hence programs like this:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_island/articles/2010/12/19/providence_program_destroys_childrens_toy_guns/?page=full
A monster that eats toy guns and poops out the plastic bits.
I had a few toy guns as a kid but my parents were sure to keep me away from my father's two real guns. My mother reminded me a few years ago that as a youngster I would sometimes use her spare high heels from the backseat floor in her car to "shoot" at other cars.
Sio at February 1, 2011 1:17 PM
I presume these would be outlawed....what a shame. Had a pair...am not a killer, nor own any guns.
http://www.nicholscapguns.com/graphics/scrapbook/mattel/lr-set-1.htm
radioone at February 1, 2011 1:37 PM
Fining a child $2000 for buying a toy gun - kids sure grow up quickly these days.
Gordon at February 1, 2011 2:12 PM
Next up: Hawaii to determine sentencing standards for minors who point their index finger while saying "BANG!"
davidr at February 1, 2011 2:18 PM
I see they did not define "toy gun". A Super-Soaker with a pistol grip handle might qualify.
david at February 1, 2011 2:23 PM
I'm glad to see they've resolved the problems with their lousy public school system and have nothing better to do.
Meanwhile, Mike Bloomberg can't get the roads plowed, but he can send somebody to Arizona to violate federal gun laws.
I'm just wondering what I have to do to get a pass on laws I don't want to follow.
MarkD at February 1, 2011 2:29 PM
I bought my own toys, including several squirt guns. To a kid every year or two is like a whole new era, and the old stuff long lost.
Funny how the home of "hang loose" has embraced nanny statehood.
carol at February 1, 2011 2:49 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/02/01/squirt_gun_cont.html#comment-1835043">comment from carolI loved earning money and being able to buy things -- and save money, too. I got 10 cents a letter and envelope for typing for my dad (addressing them, typing Dear So-and-So and the address)...probably how I earned my gun money!
Amy Alkon at February 1, 2011 2:51 PM
When I was growing up in northwestern Pennsylvania in the 1960s, we had a rifle team at the high school and a range in the school basement. The first day of deer season, every boy in class (except me) and half the girls were out getting their bucks. And they were shooting the .30-06, which is a civilian version of the military Garand rifle with a range of about a quarter mile. A lot of these kids' fathers also had military souvenir pistols from Germany and Japan, and the children knew where they were kept.
My grandfather was the county judge, and he collected firearms as a hobby. My mother was on her school's rifle team and was a crack shot.
The difference between those days and today is that my schoolmates were taught firearms safety and hunting etiquette as a matter of course. Any one of them could have taken enough weaponry up on the hill behind the football field to blow away the entire team during practice, plus half the cheerleaders. But they would have scorned the idea as just plain dumb--plus their fathers would have tanned their hides.
Thomas T. Thomas at February 1, 2011 3:01 PM
As a pediatrician, I am paid to notice things. One of the things I have noticed over the years is that boys are attracted to certain activities. When discussing this issue with parents, I often recall situations in which boys play differently than girls in natural situations. There is plenty of evidence anecdotal and otherwise to support the idea that if man had not invented guns, boys would have. Just because something is natural does not always make it right, but I think it deserves a certain level of our respect before trying to change it. We should be sure that there is something wrong with boys playing in more confrontational ways than girls for example before we try to change it.
Brian Kennedy at February 1, 2011 3:04 PM
Next up: Hawaii to determine sentencing standards for minors who point their index finger while saying "BANG!"
Over Christmas I found out that my nephew got in trouble at school because he participated in a game where the kids pointed at each other and went "P-U." Luckily for them no adult witnessed it (other kids reported it) so they only got written up and a note sent home. If an adult had seen it they would have likely been expelled and almost certainly suspended for a week or more.
The Former Banker at February 1, 2011 3:14 PM
Volokh is nitpicking. True, the government is not outlawing possession of squirt guns by minors, but is outlawing sale of squirt guns to minors. It is insane.
kishke at February 1, 2011 3:21 PM
I bought squirt guns in elementary school, cap guns (quite realistic-looking ones, too) in middle school, and had a BB "rifle" before my mid-teens.
These were bought by me, with my own money.
I also went to Boy Scout camp in the early 1960s. We had marksmanship merit badge classes on the camp rifle range using .22 single-shot bolt action rifles. Every summer the camp hired a US Marine to run the classes and supervise the range. There were no accidents, and we all learned how to handle and use a small-bore firearm safely — and have fun shooting it.
What can be done to reverse the relentless weenie-fication of this country? My hunch is that no real change can happen until sometime after most of the boomers (and I'm one) are in the ground.
Robert at February 1, 2011 3:27 PM
That is, if kids want toy guns (including squirt guns) let THEM pay for them. That should make them think twice - sometimes.
I don't see why the kids should have to pay themselves, nor do I see why they should have to think twice about buying squirt guns. The idea is ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with squirt guns, except that they get you wet.
kishke at February 1, 2011 3:28 PM
If you can't buy a squirt gun until you're 18, when do you get Lego, at 21?
Amy Alkon at February 1, 2011 3:29 PM
I recently watched a terrific documentary called "Restrepo," about an American platoon in Afghanistan's Korengal valley, where 90% of the serious fighting took place. They interviewed a kid who grew up in a hippie family, all organic, no candy, definitely no toy guns; now he's in the Army, at the tip of the spear. So much for these dumb rules.
kishke at February 1, 2011 3:35 PM
Yikes, Lego are really dangerous! Just try stepping on one barefoot. And what if kids throw them at each other? I'd say a minimum of a six months for possession.
kishke at February 1, 2011 3:36 PM
Hey! Here's a basic, can't believe-you-didn't-ask-this question:
What's a "squirt gun"?
I can get 300mL of acid or caustic in a squeeze ketchup bottle.
This is just another clue that the best minds are just not found in government service.
Well, along with stuff like this fundamentally disappointing stupidity.
You're just looking at idiots looking around for something to do, to advertise as "doing their job".
Radwaste at February 1, 2011 3:38 PM
My sister-in-law, the doctrinaire Minnesota liberal, banned all "war toys" from her home. She finally realized the cause was lost when she found her four-year-old son playing with a wooden jigsaw puzzle of the United States. He was using Florida as a pistol and "shooting" his sister.
Murgatroyd at February 1, 2011 3:39 PM
Did you see that Sikh's in a Detroit-area school district are now allowed to wear their religious ceremonial daggers to school?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/01/michigan-school-district-allows-sikh-students-wear-religious-dagger-school/?test=latestnews
To quote a favorite film: "It's all so fucking hysterical."
Eric at February 1, 2011 4:08 PM
"Up here in Idaho, my 6 year old boy just got his shooting badge in Boy Scouts, which I object to."
I wasn't aware that 6 year olds could be in the Boy Scouts.
GM Roper at February 1, 2011 4:09 PM
Radwaste says: "This is just another clue that the best minds are just not found in government service."
I love this line. This needs to be "in their face" a lot more.
I'm surprised that I've not seen any comments yet on the next obvious fear/infraction/violation-of-law. Namely, the "straw-man" squirt gun purchases. If an 18 year old purchases a squirt gun specifically for his younger brother, using that brother's money, is he now in violation of the law?
Great press would be a truck load of squirt guns in a school parking lot with a sign to some effect of: Buy a "lesson planner" for $1.00, get a squirt gun FREE! Who would enforce? BATF?
Too funny.
m at February 1, 2011 4:44 PM
Wonder what they would think of THIS?
Radwaste at February 1, 2011 5:00 PM
GM Roper-
Technically it is the Tiger Scouts... then Cub Scouts, then wolf scouts, then Webeloes, then Boy Scouts. All the same organization
Eric at February 1, 2011 5:18 PM
The lunatics are now criminalizing what amounts to shooting spitballs out of the tube of a bic pen:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/01/AR2011020104097.html
If they had done this in my day, I'd have a criminal record as long as my arm, as would pretty much every other boy in my class.
kishke at February 1, 2011 5:29 PM
I think of the kid who grew up in a hippy house now in Afghan(comment above)...No worries as many *kids* over there grew up in homes where gun use was common. My son is in Afghanistan, right now. He played with toy guns and water guns all of his life, in addition to having days with dad at the shooting range (as dad was an MP and now a retired cop).
For that matter, every 4th of July we gun lovers in New Mexico, pull out our squirt guns and partake in our annual water gun fights. My oh my what are these folks doing behind closed doors if this is what is being done for our show?
Jennifer at February 1, 2011 6:06 PM
Dissolve drain cleaner pellets in water (add pellets to water not water to pellets, kids!!!) and you have a real weapon, especially for a super squirter. I only remember filling one with liquid smoke. Hell, I remember showing off my new Swiss Army knife to kids and teachers combined back in school in the 70s and even early 80s. "Leave us kids alone!!!" needs to become a mantra of at least one upcoming generation. I think they'll remember just fine how oppressive the Left was, just like 1950s era conservatism lead to the 60s.
NikFromNYC at February 1, 2011 6:11 PM
Not a lot new here. In Cleveland, flashing a toy gun will almost certainly get you shot by the police. Much easier, they think there, to control retailing than to make cops do more of those expensive shoot/don't shoot exercises.
Know who started that "weenie-factor" of banning all war toys? Miss Frances did that, on Ding-Dong School, and all later kids' TV lives in her shadow.
Dr. Kennedy, please find a photo of the NCAA National Champion Rifle Team (TCU), and let me know if you see any boys there. They went to the White House and everything. Was the President ever surprised!
comatus at February 1, 2011 8:09 PM
My siter and I grew up with same age boy neighbours and we all played guns (and dolls) together. Thanks to our parents not over reacting, we learnt about how guns work and, as teens, spent time with dad at the range. Now my sister and I both have our shooters licences and she is involved with the local Trap Shooting community.
I understand that guns are not toys and can harm people, but so can ovens, bicycles, cars and handy-man tools. Does that mean that toys based on these items should also be banned? I hope not!
~U~
Ula at February 1, 2011 10:22 PM
Next they will be after our rubber band guns!
West Coast Independent at February 1, 2011 10:45 PM
I was the frilliest girly girl you ever met, I wore lacy dresses and played Barbie, but even I enjoyed a good super soaker.
NicoleK at February 2, 2011 1:56 AM
I don't see why the kids should have to pay themselves, nor do I see why they should have to think twice about buying squirt guns. The idea is ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with squirt guns, except that they get you wet.
Posted by: kishke at February 1, 2011 3:28 PM
_________________________
The ideas are that 1) parents should not have to pay for anything that is against their principles, 2) kids need to learn to distinguish between what they want and what they think they want, 3) as Amy Dacyczyn (Complete Tightwad Gazette) once said (about childish desires in general), if they don't want to pay for it, why should I, and 4) it empowers them when they can do extra chores at any time to get money instead of sitting around moping because they already spent their allowance and have to wait another week.
I think a good rule would be that while it's OK to ask for certain birthday presents, that doesn't mean you'll always get them, and other than that, if you, the kid, are the first person to raise the idea of a certain present, you have to pay for it. (This teaches kids to wait quietly and patiently for those little things they get for FREE, such as when a parent says "want a toy, since we're in the mall anyway?")
lenona at February 2, 2011 8:55 AM
As noted in Taranto's Best of the Web:
Hey Skipper at February 2, 2011 1:28 PM
I'm having a vision... it's a newspaper article...
"NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg announced today that he is taking his crack investigative team and a case of sunscreen to Hawaii to find out how easy it is for minors to buy high-powered water pistols and high-capacity 30-ounce ammo jugs.
"No child needs that much water in a state that's surrounded by the stuff," said Bloomberg, "We've got to put an end to the yard sale loophole."
Deirdre Something at February 3, 2011 11:14 AM
I see there's been a helicopter crash which perhaps conveniently has killed the team of navy seals who allegedly took out Bin Laden. Were I a conspiracy theorist I'd be thinking, well, that's the witnesses removed then. This is just too much coincidence for me.
Andrew Trainer at August 6, 2011 5:56 PM
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