Well, this is really dumb. When I stayed with my dad in Tarpley, Texas, for a summer, with my blue heeler/husky mix, Merlin, Merlin got into a few such predicaments. His hunting nature would come out when he'd find a possum under the porch or a raccoon or whatever else, and my normally docile dog would go into full on attack mode toward the "prey". It's his instinct, for goodness' sake! At least twice my dad got involved and shot the "prey" before Merlin could get any further along - partially to save the animal from a slower death, partially to save Merlin from getting any more claw marks and other surface injuries than he had already acquired.

This is absurd. How long before my parents are brought in for questioning because their outdoor cat is a serial killer of mice, rats, birds, and baby bunnies?

He's lucky the raccoon wasn't fully grown- it probably would have taken a pound of flesh. My hundred pound dog Wally caught a wild turkey a few months ago- first round went to Wally, but the turkey won the fight. Those talons are sharp as knives.

A lot of big, spectacular aquarium fish thrive best on a diet of live food. Wouldn't that also be illegal animal cruelty if we follow the logic here, and if so, what are the owners of all these hungry fish supposed to do with them?

When I was little a baby bunny got into our basement and my parents couldn't catch it or get it out. So my mom shut our cat down there until the situation "resolved itself." I guess if she did that now she'd go to jail.

One of the original reasons to have a dog or cat was to kill critters you did't want in or near your house. So now that's illegal?

My cat disemboweled and ate a rat on my back porch the other day. I felt merely grateful that said rat wasn't going to be reproducing in my house. Rodents=snakes. And I can't have snakes slithering around my yard with my kids. Which is why we HAVE a cat. It was the neighborhood stray, we got her fixed and her shots and feed her, she patrols our yard. Win-win. And, I hope, will stay that way here in texas at least.

I think what bothers some of us is the reality that many people can enjoy a flat-out slaughter just as much as a fair fight.

For instance, if I was in ancient Rome, I might be able to watch two gladiators of comparable skill fight to the death. I would not, however, enjoy watching a bear-baiting, or victims thrown to lions or otherwise butchered for my amusement.

From what I've observed and heard or read about, this is pretty much a guy thing, though most of them won't admit it. Doesn't make it criminal, just repulsive.

Honestly, I do think it's a little cruel to just let your dog slowly kill a raccoon; and I think it's a little sick to find it amusing and record it. I do think in this situation these people were intentionally cruel. I know dogs will kill things; my husky killed some baby bunnies in my parents' yard out in the country before we could stop her. The difference is that we tried to stop her, we didn't video tape it. She got worms from them too.. that was no fun. I think it's stupid that these teens are facing the charges because they made a really stupid decision, and perhaps there was no other way to deal with the raccoon problem, but they really should have known better.

Sorry, next time I'll read a little more closely.. some of what I said isn't exactly the case, I guess.

Concerning the hypothetical Ancient Rome Gladiatorial deathmatches, I think I could stomach watching people I didn't know voluntarily kill each other. I'm pretty sure I would think it would be a stupid waste (Coming from my point of view now) of life, but I wouldn't try and stop them. But when in Rome. . .

I'm sure I wouldn't like a slaughter of innocents. Or a slaughter of persons that were guilty of whatever crime. Pretty sure (At least how I conceive of it taking place) I would be disgusted and appalled.

Going back to wild animals, they will do what they do. So will teenagers. So will courts.

I'm sure something like Gangbanger Gladiators would actually be hugely popular. They're already doing it, just out in public and hurting innocent people as it is. Do it in a controlled environment after they're caught in gang related violence. I'm betting they won't be 1/2 as tough as they act out in public.

Angie, I think you have the right ideas in general.

If one really NEEDS a cat to destroy vermin around the house, I suppose that's one thing. However, I cannot understand certain sweet, wonderful people who do NOT need to let their cats outdoors without a leash but who do it anyway and who have no qualms about how cats destroy millions of helpless, just-hatched songbirds every year. (One response I got was "it's natural." Well, it's also natural for babies and toddlers to be cruel to animals, but there's more than one reason we nip THAT behavior in the bud. Right?)

Here's more:

http://library.fws.gov/bird_publications/songbrd.html#Cat

"University of Wisconsin ornithologist, Dr. Santley Temple estimates that 20-150 million songbirds are killed each year by rural cats in Wisconsin alone.

"Feline predation is not 'natural.' Cats were domesticated by the ancient Egyptians and taken throughout the world by the Romans. Cats were brought to North America in the 1800's to control rats. The 'tabby' that sits curled up on your couch is not a natural predator and has never been in the natural food chain in the Western Hemisphere.

"Cats are a serious threat to fledglings, birds roosting at night and birds on a nest. Research shows that de-clawing cats and bell collars do not prevent them from killing birds and other small animals. For healthy cats and wild birds, cats should not be allowed to roam free."

(snip)

And:

"The 'rules of competition' changed around the turn of the century when we humans imported two European cavity nesting species: house sparrows and starlings.

"House sparrows eliminate nest competitors by attacking the adults and killing the young when they are on the nest. Starlings eliminate nest competitors by taking over cavity nesting sites. Our native birds don't seem to be able to defend themselves from house sparrow and starling attacks. So, if you put up a nest box to help bluebirds, martins, chickadees, titmice, woodpecker, wrens or flycatchers, you must monitor the box and eliminate house sparrows and starlings."

(end)

I'm with Leona on this one. We have three cats and my wife is an avid bird watcher. We don't let the cats go outside ... ever. We turn the hose on any cat that comes into our yard. We've seen firsthand how they can decimate the local song bird population. Mice do periodically wander into our house and the cats get to them before we can. But we did not orchestrate this. It is impractical, nay impossible to avoid this situation totally, yet we try.

And there lies the difference. Predators living in their natural habitat should do what nature dictates. Intentionally setting a dog upon a raccoon, or letting your cat run wild to kill what it pleases is wrong and should be punished.