Jones is an asshat for sure but the people who do the beheading/rioting are always looking for a reason to behead and riot anyway.

Asshat or no, Jones has got gumption. It's time Muslims learned a bit of self-restraint, and if they can't, then they have no business in a civilized society, and that is not Terry Jones's fault. In fact, we should probably thank him for making it so clear how deranged these people are.

I keep telling myself that the pictures we see from overseas are exactly that - from overseas. The majority of these people have never seen indoor plumbing, let alone their own television. I hasten to call to my own attention that they are from a country that places a higher importance on their religion than education, human rights and the general improvement of mankind. I remind myself I haven't seen similar protests within the US, where the vast majority of Muslims are rational people who want to live their lives and not kill anyone.

But it's almost impossible to watch these people from Forn Parts act like they just ate the brown acid at Woodstock and not get the bejabbers scared out of you.

If we didn't need things from these people, we'd have let them wipe each other out decades ago. But our desire to work with them, and our insane (note: sarcasm) desire to be tolerant of other people's beliefs are giving new meaning to the old saying "Give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile".

Also, mark that Terry Jones would never have been heard of in the Middle East if the news media didn't dutifully report his activities to everyone. Back in the day, when we didn't have 24 hours a day to fill with news, some stories were not covered, as they were patently unimportant. Now we report, comment, discuss and poll damn near everything that comes down the pike. This guy would never have gotten a moment of air time if a half-hour was all they had.

I keep telling myself that the pictures we see from overseas are exactly that - from overseas. The majority of these people have never seen indoor plumbing, let alone their own television. I hasten to call to my own attention that they are from a country that places a higher importance on their religion than education, human rights and the general improvement of mankind.

If only. Problem is this sort of stuff goes on in France too, when the "Asians" burn and riot, or kidnap Jews and torture them to death, as occurred in the cases of Ilan Halimi and Mathieu Roumi. These horrors were perpetrated by Parisian Muslims, some of them born in France. They've had indoor plumbing in Paris for quite some time now. We need to face facts. It's not the lack of plumbing or TV. It's the poisonous, hateful ideology and culture.

Muslims are a minority on this planet. Do you have any idea how many Buddhists & Christians don't have indoor plumbing or their own TVs? Please point to 3 recent examples of people going on an orgy of mass murder because someone somewhere burned a Bible or drew a cartoon of Buddha. Kishke is right. Face facts, it's Islam.

Karzai provoked, Governor planned violent protests

http://www.abdulhadihairan.com/?p=930&cpage=1#comment-2478

Whose fault is it these fanatical religious shit heads choose to kill? The bat shit crazy pastor in Florida has little influence over these zombies.

From Wiki
World Religions
Four largest religions↓ Adherents↓ % of World Population↓
World Population 6.8 billion
Figure used by individual articles
Christianity 1.9 billion - 2.1 billion 29% - 32%
Islam 1.3 billion - 1.6 billion 19% - 23%
Buddhism 500 million - 1.5 billion 7% - 23%
Hinduism 900 million - 1 billion 14%

It doesn't look to me like Islam can claim "minority" status, they may be a little behind, but are well within the realm of possible error given the populations being measured.
Who the hell cares anyway? There are poor Christians in Africa, I don't see them beheading people, quite the opposite. They are the ones being herded into their own churches and burned alive, guess by who?
These asshats aren't looking for a reason, so much as they are looking for a signal from their higher ups that they will be covered when they do this shit, Karzai gave the signal and off they went. Again proving my theory that the power structure over there is built on idiots who believe the totalitarians living in the golden palaces telling them "all your poverty, sickness and sadness is the fault of the Great Satan United States! You must blow yourselves up and take the fight to the US to save yourselves!" And being uneducated (because the only schooling they get is in the madrassa)and probably abused in other ways, they believe it whole-heartedly and do it.

Another good point they make is that there was no "outcry from the Moderate good muslims".
and Dennis replies that he isn't looking for it anymore. Since there are only a handful, and they are all in hiding in fear for their lives, I imagine that we really have heard all we can, and can only hope those handful are safe. The rest that pretend, like the Cordoba Initiative, and then spit on us by trying to build a mosque on the site of 911, yeah... Didn't hear any outrage about the monstrous killing of innocent UN workers just trying to help people from them, now, did we?

Everyone feels the need to mention that Jones is an idiot. Maybe he is for other reasons that I'm not aware of, but I don't think he's an idiot for burning the Koran. If you gave me a Koran and a lighter, I would burn it right now.

jones is an attention whore masquerading as a religious man. But he had every right toi burn that f;ing book, it is only a book. Muslims suck, even the "moderates".

Re: "jones... had every right toi burn that f;ing book, it is only a book. Muslims suck, even the "moderates"."

No, not all Muslims suck; I know this from personal interactions with a few. This sounds like an utterance from a bigot. Not all "Muslims" are particularly devout just as not all Catholics are. (One whom I used to work with was a regular wine drinker.)

I wonder if Pastor Jones wants the U.S. in Afghanistan. The country provided safe harbor for Al Qaeda, and refused to hand Bin Laden over after 9/11. If & when the U.S. exits that country, the safe harbor could reoccur.

A lot of very poor and very ignorant people inhabit Afghanistan. Is it any surprise that such people can be incited to such violence? There was a letter to the editor of the NY Times within the last week where the writer made the point that all across the Muslim world, even in democratic Indonesia, very few people understand that the rule of law prohibits Obama from arresting Pastor Jones. Also salient: One news report I heard last year said that a huge swath of the Afghan population had no idea that the U.S. was in their country because it harbored al Qaeda, hence many see Westerners as dangerous and unwelcome, just adding to the tensions.

"Kishke is right. Face facts, it's Islam."

What most people are failing to note is the difference between *radical* Islam, and *moderate* Islam.

The radical and extremist Islamic's need to be napalmed off the face of existence. The moderate Islamic's are pretty much normal people who don't have a choice in the matter, so they believe what they've been told. Or else.

There is no such thing as moderate islam. there are muslims, and there are apostates (that are mistakenly referred to as moderate muslims). any muslim that isn't promoting jihad is an apostate, and just as much of a target as any non-muslim.

they don't speak up because it's a pointless exercise that only puts a target on their head.

Hasn't anyone caught the link between Westboro Baptist Church and Dove World Outreach (aka Terry Jones)

The mainstream media is reporting on the outliers and calling it the center.

I wouldn't burn a religious text on general principles any more than I would burn a flag. If someone else does it, it is their right, even though I may not like it.

Once again, Brian stikes the nail squarely on its head.

Or as I like to say "Devout enough to be dangerous" The ones who are secularized enough to be *tolerant* and have a live/let live viewpoint aren't exactly shouting it from the rooftops. And why would they? So they and/or their family can get whacked?

Islam IS the problem.

Both eloquent view points,and I agree somewhat with each.

I think we should remember though, that religion in general is the problem, and will continue to be. The basic Tenets of any religion are fundamentally intolerant. The Bible itself says "Though shalt have no other God but me."

As long as any organized religion exists,( much like our old necessary evil, politics, but unlike politics in that religion is NOT necessary,) a state of permanent childishness and intolerance will exist as well. A person is smart, but people are bumbling idiots, and we all know what happens when a mob gets hold of a reason to fight.

Acctually it says no other gods "BEFORE" sugesting that you can worship as many gods as you like so long as he(who ever he is) is first and none of the others have man made icons or idols that are representitive of any of "his" creations.

Funny how noone ever notices the god of the bible admits he isnt the only god

Angel,

Jesus never preached violence (aside from that moneylenders in the temple thing). Sure "Thou shalt have no other gods" but you shall also turn the other cheek, give someone who takes your jacket your shirt, love thy neighbor, leave vengeance to the Lord, and the meek shall inherit the earth. Jesus healed the ear of the soldier that came to arrest him. Whether or not you beleive these stories are true, they do not preach hate, genocide, and warfare.

The Buddha taught about reducing suffering in the world through the Middle Way, a completer absence in any sort of extremism. One of the key elements of the Eightfold Path is intentional harmlessness; living and having a livlihood so that you do not cause suffering. Again, even if you are not an adherent, Buddhism does not teach violence.

Hinduism says that the whole world is one family and a complete freedom of religion. There is no blasphemy or heresy because in Hinduism you can worship whatever god you want. There is absolutely nothing in their religious tradition that compels them to war with non-Hindus.

The Islamic holy book compares Jews to apes and swine. It says that Jews and Christians are despised in the eyes of Allah and Jews and Christians specifically seek to cause trouble for the faithful Muslims. They should be killed or submit to a special tax. Islam is obliged to be spread through the world and by the sword if nessecary.

So religion may be stupid and an opiate of the masses, but "religion in general" is not the problem. Of the four major world religions, one of them preaches war and genocide. Of the four major world religions only one of them has no outcry from its moderates when adherents use it to justify horrific violence. And of the four major world religions only one of them spawns terrorists and suicide bombers, honor kills their wives and children, and demands special attention be their customs because otherwise there might be a bloody riot elsewhere in the world. There is one specific religion that is causing these problems.

Also interesting how people forget the "Love thy neighbor as thyself." "Turn the other cheek" "Thou shalt not kill" and the host of other teachings that, in one form or other, all religions but ONE share with each other. I don't see Budhists beheading unbelievers. Can't remember seeing an adherant to Shinto honor-killing their daughter.
Stop with the fucking "It's all religions", Angel, you just show your own sad bigotry and lack of knowledge, and honestly, you really piss me off.

I stand corrected on the "but".

However, I still stand by my original claim that religion in general is the problem, if for no other reason then what they preach and what they practice are two very different things in many cases. This is not limited to Christianity, Buddhists, or any other religion. I can think of many many cases of supposed "Christians" blatantly flouting the teachings of the religion, as well as Muslims.

One problem is a mob mentality taking a very good idea and turning it into a rigid belief system. Another is that most religious ideals are easily twisted to suit the motives of the one teaching the religion.

I think the problem with Islam is that in the Arabic world, the separation between the Church and State has yet to be made. A difficult task, considering that both follow the same methodology worldwide. Get 'em while they're young!!!

Amy,

I don't think you can burn the flag of any country and not get a reaction.

If, that is, you get enough media coverage.

Kat;

GOOD! We're even! Better go get the baby killers, quick, they're coming over the border!

Here's something for everyone to think about, at least the political views anyway. Kat, you better not follow the link cause we all know how much you like to make snap judgements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0kjCwOFIXQ

I can think of many many cases of supposed "Christians" blatantly flouting the teachings of the religion, as well as Muslims

No, Angel, those are actually the good christians, the people who take it literally, just like the good muslims take it literally. The bad christians or muslims are the people who want a more humanist or secular approach. This is very difficult in islam, as the book is the literal word of God through Gabriel to Mohammed.

http://m.memri.org/14499/show/a1dbdc730d4a51e877a91c72a1b9ad35&t=83dde5602d6399700a0848d6a29518fb

"if for no other reason then what they preach and what they practice are two very different things in many cases. This is not limited to Christianity, Buddhists, or any other religion"

Right. As you get closer to the teachings of Christianity you get more kind, patient, and forgiving. As you adhere closer to the teaching of the Buddha you reduce suffering in the world and become kinder and more tolerant. Become a better Hindu and you practice goodness towards your neighbors.

But to become a better Muslim you must eliminate or subjugate the unbelievers through any means nessecary. Anyone who dies in the name of Allah is on the surest path to heavenly reward. Becoming a better Muslim does not make you more kind, patient, forgiving, etc. It means you make war against your neighbors by any means until they agree with you.

If by making snap judgements you mean actually studying the religions, rather than bashing them, well, sure. I'm a recovering Protestant-Baptist-Mormon-Lutheran. I studied with Jainists, Budhists and Shintoists. I did consider Islam for a very short time, but after reading the Koran, I decided that it wasn't a good thing, and so I didn't go there. I have been Wiccan, and am currently Agnostic. I don't actually like organized religion, but I don't have a problem if someone wants to worship, as long as they do it in a way that does not harm anyone else. In all my studies, I've only found one religion with a core concept founded on harming others. Guess which one?

So yeah, took me 40+ years to come to my "snap judgement".

BTW, the 'baby-killers' are fighting in Congress to keep their federal funding right now, so they are a little busy, but I think the TSA could find time for you if you really need some company!

I can think of many many cases of supposed "Christians" blatantly flouting the teachings of the religion, as well as Muslims.

One problem is a mob mentality taking a very good idea and turning it into a rigid belief system. Another is that most religious ideals are easily twisted to suit the motives of the one teaching the religion.

You can find outliers in any religion or any other human activity.

The examples include the Mormon fundamentalists who still practice polygamy, the Branch Davidians, The Peoples Temple, Westboro Baptist Church, and the Dove World Outreach. They are examples of sects, denominations or cults that are based off the bible and the Christian ethos. Out of all the groups, most are not supported or even denounced by the mainstream of the faith.

Then you have the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Al-Quaeda, Wahhabi, and Jama'a-i Tabliq. When they do damage to others, how many times do you see comments, opinions, or denunciations of that conduct?

When that happens -- we can discuss being reasonable. Until then, educate yourself and be prepared to submit to Caliphate.

"You can find outliers in any religion or any other human activity."

This is exactly my point.

And the Catholics hide it just as much as anybody else.