A Muslim Makes Excuses For Why No Muslims Speak Out
Yesterday, a student at UC Irvine who works for the food service identified himself as Muslim (he overheard a guy talking to me about Islam) and I asked him the question: Why is it only people like me -- American non-Muslims -- who speak out against things like the stoning of women for adultery and the hanging of two gay teen boys in Iran?
He told me that it's because people will have their relatives back in the old country slaughtered. (Which, on one end, pretty much confirms what I've been saying about the primitive evil that is Islam.) But, it just doesn't pass the smell test. Come on...do we really believe this is why almost no Muslims (save for ex-Muslims Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish) speak out against stuff like this -- and jihad attacks, and all the rest? (Not even anonymously, on my blog and elsewhere?)
Oh yeah -- was poor dead Theo Van Gogh's problem in speaking out against Islam some Muslim relative back in Pakistan? In Theodore Dalrymple's words:
Like most people in Western democracies, Van Gogh, by all accounts a brash and combative man, took his freedom of expression for granted. Most of us most of the time do not reflect much on the fact that such freedom is an historical exception rather than an historical rule, a reversible achievement rather than a free gift of God. There are still many who would rather kill than brook any contradiction of their opinions or beliefs, even while they live in the most tolerant of societies.
What do Muslim countries have in commmon that most Western countries don't: Petro dollars concentrated into the hands of very, very few. In the service of protecting their interests, those rich few are able to divert attention from their own corruption by tossing red meat to the impoverished masses in the form of a boogey man: "the West hates you and Islam!" And up until the recent uprising, it's worked pretty well. You see the same phenomena here with the Koch brothers. Their actual objective is to rescind 100 years of regulatory reform and get ALL the money, but they've framed it as "the government hates you and your freedoms!" So my advice to you is to step very carefully when you write things like "...the primitive evil that is Islam." Not only is your observation incorrect, but it's prejudiced and only exacerbates the Muslim/West problem.
woundedduck at April 10, 2011 9:54 AM
Now the next question in that logic path: Are we better off now -- working about 1/3 of the year just to pay taxes?
And where in all the federal constitution is education? Social Security? Medicare? Medicaid? Planned Parenthood? DOT? EPA? Department of the Interior?
Jim P. at April 10, 2011 10:14 AM
woundedduck is a good machine.
mother at April 10, 2011 10:19 AM
Looks like the crippled mallard got into the fermented corn. Care to share how freedom is bad for individuals and government regulations are good for individuals. btw, Islam sucks, amd murderous Islamist are both evil and primitive. Is it predjudiced to call a murderer a murderer?
Also, Mr. Duck, are you aware that wildcatting is been closed to regulated out of existence? It wasn't done by nor supportedby, the Koch brothers either. You give ducks a bad name.
Dave B at April 10, 2011 10:24 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/04/10/a_muslim_makes.html#comment-2024800">comment from woundedduckSo my advice to you is to step very carefully when you write things like "...the primitive evil that is Islam." Not only is your observation incorrect, but it's prejudiced and only exacerbates the Muslim/West problem.
"Prejudiced"? I have a problem with a religion that COMMANDS the slaughter of those who do not believe as they do, and it does exactly that? Along with all the other evil it commands.
The truth is, it isn't bigoted to criticize religion. It's disagreement with the death cult ethic. If you would "tolerate" it, what are you? In Walter Benn Michaels' words:
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2010/08/19/it_isnt_bigoted.html
Yes, I am entirely firm in my belief that a religion that is based in a book that is not to be questioned, a book (and the Sunna) which command all sorts of evil things and posit women to have half the rights of a man, is evil and wrong.
Please tell me where I've erred in this. I have enlightenment values and they are way fucking better than Islamic ones.
Amy Alkon at April 10, 2011 10:47 AM
People might be interested in the following link:
www.freemuslims.org
They actively protest terrorism and extremism.
Meloni at April 10, 2011 12:15 PM
"He told me that it's because people will have their relatives back in the old country slaughtered."
Translation . . .
Non "moderate" muslims in this country report on us to religious leaders back in the old country, we dont speak out because we cant trust our fellow muslims here in america
lujlp at April 10, 2011 2:33 PM
"...the primitive evil that is Islam."
Now, I am no stranger to religion-bashing - and that is ALL religion bashing (just hop over and see on my blog). However, to bandy such irresponsibly generalist AND offensive remarks which are also even incorrect, because they equate the radicalised theocratic minority with the whole religion - as if that needed pointing out, but sadly it seems it does... :(
Plus, statements like this actually explain nothing, just as your post does not seem to address anything but an incident you experienced, which is a single comment by a single person who (along with potentially his acquaintances) may well HAVE family just like he describes it.
Note I am not saying such people and families do not exist. Heck, there's all sorts of religions out there who may not kill, but will happily ostracise those who dare break the norms by e.g. marrying outside the religion, being gay, ... whatever. And those selfsame religions will boast of being "modern" and "enlightened" and all the goodies you care to name.
The problem with religion is that we have outgrown the need for it as a species and would be better off without it - period. The problem of radicalised (and potentially violent) minorities of religious people are a totally different issue, and should be tackled in a more sensible way that painting the whole background religion they seemingly belong to with the same tar brush. Doing so will only do to homogenise the religious around the worst part of their clergy/theologians.
Was that the effect you wanted to create? Because you did.
PS
Works the same the other way around. The more atheists are ostracised the more they'll flock to the very radical stream of atheism. Which may not be such a bad thing after all, only if there weren't societies out there (and here I think primarily "enlightened" ones like US) where atheists have to cower and hide. After all, Americans seem to be happier with a Muslim president than an atheist one - and if it's judged by your off the cuff comment on Muslims they certainly aren't seen as a good guy.
Vlad The Impatient at April 10, 2011 10:56 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/04/10/a_muslim_makes.html#comment-2027681">comment from Vlad The Impatientbecause they equate the radicalised theocratic minority with the whole religion - as if that needed pointing out, but sadly it seems it does... :(
Yet another person who blathers on about Islam but knows nothing of the Quran and the Hadith. Islam has a fail-safe switch in it -- the Quran is the word of god and is not to be questioned. The later, truly evil passages abrogate the more peaceful ones. (There's the Mecca Quran and the Medina Quran.) You give no indication of having the slightest nibble of information behind your comments.
PS Works the same the other way around. The more atheists are ostracised the more they'll flock to the very radical stream of atheism.
And that's crap. I don't believe in anything unless there's evidence for its existence. I don't "flock" to anything or make my atheism anything more than that: I don't believe in god because I see no evidence there is a god. Whether people like me or dislike me because of that doesn't change a thing.
Amy Alkon at April 10, 2011 11:21 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/04/10/a_muslim_makes.html#comment-2027712">comment from Amy AlkonHeck, there's all sorts of religions out there who may not kill, but will happily ostracise those who dare break the norms by e.g. marrying outside the religion, being gay,
This is their prerogative and none of my business. If you don't want me dead, you can believe that the moon in Capricorn has meaning for your Wednesday or believe all sorts of dopey or even awful things. I have freedom of speech (still) and will likely criticize your religion for its, say, gay-bashing (I answer a good many emails from suffering gay teens from religious families that never make my column).
The thing is, you can walk away from being ostracized and start a new life (I had no friends as a child -- Christian kids bullied me -- and I managed to get out of town and thrive), but you can't do that if your fellow Muslims have obeyed what their religion commands of them and stoned you for "adultery" (aka rape when you lack four male witnesses to come forward and say you were attacked and sexually assaulted, not fornicating).
Here's a statement I've printed here before when know-nothings about Islam have pontificated here:
Amy Alkon at April 10, 2011 11:34 PM
"...the primitive evil that is Islam." Not only is your observation incorrect
You base your statement on what facts? Hint: proof by assertion isn't.
Then there's that pesky Koran (which is alleged to be the literal word of Allah) which instructs the believe to convert, oppress or kill the infidel, to kill the Jew, and to kill the apostate. Oh, wait, that's not primitive or evil, right?
I R A Darth Aggie at April 11, 2011 6:48 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/04/10/a_muslim_makes.html#comment-2030019">comment from I R A Darth AggieExactly right, I R A Darth Aggie.
Amy Alkon at April 11, 2011 7:18 AM
Living as a disadvantaged nonbeliever in a predominantly hostile islamic infested environment is itself a most unpleasant experience. If those pesky islamics with their pesky islamic culture seek to dominate unpleasantly or unreasonably or threateningly, then they are guilty of ostracising themselves and others of other faith or of no faith in them.
As for myself I as a nonbeliever suffered enough under their islamic socalled moderateness and extremism (that hide behind their socalled moderate malay ethnicity) and think it is just meaningless and scary to have anything to do with them.
WLIL at April 11, 2011 5:51 PM
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