The Deluge
This is my busiest month, with an ev psych conference, taxes, my book, my regular deadlines, some radio stuff I'm working on, Literary Orange, LA Times Festival of Books, and spending a good bit of yesterday evening being slowly pecked to death by ducks (aka attending a zoning board meeting about a neighborhood issue).
A whole lot of people have herpes (perhaps one in four, if you believe the stats, and I rarely believe the stats). One of the questions I've got in my "still-unanswered" pile is from a guy who has it. He politely reminded me of this today, and I'm always in favor of the polite reminder. He wants to know how and when to tell he's got it. Since so many of you who comment here have opinions I generally respect, I thought I'd put the question to you. So...please, have at it. So the guy won't have to wait to date until literary search and rescue digs me out (and if only there were such a thing!).
Oh gosh.
My sibling contracted that disease from an ex-girlfriend. She didn't inform him until well after they'd had sex that she had it, and he (idiot) figured he'd already been infected and didn't get tested for it and continued the relationship. Of course, he got it.
I honestly don't know if he's informed any of his subsequent partners about his status.
Personally, I think you must tell any potential partner before sex becomes a reality. Not that you have to introduce yourself with "Hi, I'm Bob, and I'm not having a flare-up!" but if you're at the point where things are going well and it looks like you'll end up sleeping together, you need to tell the other person.
I know this is scary, and you'd have to be prepared to hear that it's a dealbreaker (it would be for me) and not to try to cajole the other person into looking past it or blaming them for not wanting to be with you.
I guess the bottom line is, you have a highly contagious, incurable disease, and not giving the other person the information they need to protect themself is pretty sleazy, even if they don't ask.
Choika at April 21, 2011 5:29 AM
While not adding anything constructive to the issue, I have to share a joke that seems apropos. I heard a stand up comedian say it on Comedy Central (paraphrased):
-Whenever I sleep with someone new, I have a policy of assuming that she has herpes. That way, I don't feel obligated to tell her about my own herpes. -
I fell out of the goddamned chair laughing when I heard that. I wish I remembered the name of the comedian so I could give him credit for the joke. That joke is perfect.
WhistleDick at April 21, 2011 6:13 AM
>>"A whole lot of people have herpes (perhaps one in four, if you believe the stats, and I rarely believe the stats)."
It depends on how you're defining herpes this week. Apparently, a whole lot of things we call by different names are just variations on herpes. When my coworker got shingles last year, we found out that both shingles and chicken pox are herpes. Cold sores? Herpes. So if you're making an incredibly wide (and deceptive, in my opinion) definition of herpes (ie: not just counting genital), than yeah, probably one in four have a cold sore, or have had chicken pox, or whatever.
And if I somehow misinterperted the info, please feel free to correct me.
To answer the question Amy posed, I'll simply say that Choika put it very succintly - when sex looks like a reality, you need to mention it.
cornerdemon at April 21, 2011 6:43 AM
I'd say let partners know before you sleep with them. By that, I mean when you're still clothed and sex looks like a pretty good possibility, not when you're naked and sweaty.
I agree with Choika: There's no need to let people know as soon as you meet them. Unless the guy is a giant man whore, he's not going to sleep with every man or woman he dates, so there's no need to tell everyone.
MonicaP at April 21, 2011 6:46 AM
When it's starting to look like sex is going to happen- that would be the time. I concur that there's certainly no need to tell anyone you aren't very likely to get intimate with. Definetly before clothes start to come off, though. I can see how this would put a damper on bar hook-ups.
As to "how"... I can't think of a delicate way to put it. I think you'd just need to say it- probably accompanied by the fact that you're taking (X Drug) and it's all under control.
I question the stats, too. I think we've had this discussion- defining which "herpes" the 1 in 4 statistic is citing- and I have a pretty hard time believing it. Does anyone else remember when The Powers That Be (at least on college campuses) claimed the 1 in 4 stat for HPV? Wasn't that used as justification for making little girls get the HPV Vaccine? **Is a major drug company developing a herpes vaccine right now? I know there's a chicken pox vaccine... anyway, I digress**
ahw at April 21, 2011 7:24 AM
Not a major drug company, but the (little) one I used to work for (now located solely in NJ) is working on developing a vaccine for herpes. It got side-tracked, last I heard, but there's been plenty of reseach done on it.
Flynne at April 21, 2011 7:36 AM
Herpes is one of those things there is a lot of misinformation about. I have done a lot of reading on the subject, as I have it and this is what seems to be true.
Most people test positive for one of the two main forms of the Herpes virus. (about 80 percent according to one of the studies I read)
The people that don't are most likely immune.
If you are not immune you will catch it, but many people are lucky and have few or no outbreaks and so therefore "think" that they don't have it.
Just about everyone who has ever had sex also has HPV, (human papillomaviruses )this is why they are pushing Gardisil so hard; So why are we not informing all of our potential sex partners that we are most likely infected with HPV?
Because genital Herpes was hyped by the religious right and the anti sex brigade of the late 70's and early 80's no one wants to admit that short of living in a box or having a natural immunity, you ARE going to get it.
If you have ever had a cold sore, you have herpes, and yes even without an active lesion, you can pass it on through either kissing or oral sex. The same is true of genital herpes.
The comedian was close to right. Assume that everyone has it. Protect yourself accordingly if you don't, but unless you have only had sex with one person (or kissed only one person who also has only kissed or had sex with you, you can assume that you have been exposed to it already.
By the way, I have been married for a long time. I had herpes before I got married. My spouse has never had an active sore so I assume he is probably immune although he could be a carrier.
I would tell this poor guy to lie a little bit. Tell the girl when he is close to being intimate with that he has had cold sores and even though he has no active case, he knows that this is herpes and he has the potential for passing on the disease to her because he is a carrier. After that be cool, and either get on a drug that suppresses it or avoid kissing and intercourse when he feels an attack coming on.
http://www.herpesonline.org/faq.html
annon at April 21, 2011 7:55 AM
by the way, herpes can also be passed by skin to skin contact and also from surfaces that people have touched.
There have been outbreaks of it in gyms where it has been easily transferred between wrestlers and also from contact with the wrestling mats that had come into contact with a active case.
It is a hard disease to avoid.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2748372
annon at April 21, 2011 8:04 AM
Both herpes and HPV can be spread by skin to skin contact. I think anyone who doesn't not only ask the STD question but ask a potential partner to get tested, is crazy. I say ask to get tested together because I'm sure if two people grow close and are considering it, the STD carrier is afraid of the potential rejection. The biggest romantic gesture, in my eyes, is a partner who thinks protecting me from any STD's is a wonderful thing and willingly gets tested.
Kristen at April 21, 2011 8:13 AM
I requested testing of all my sexual partners before having sex. I didn't care if it made me look like a freak, or that it reduced the overall number of partners I've had. I also got tested myself. If I like someone enough to have sex with him, I like him enough to keep him healthy. It was absolutely worth it.
MonicaP at April 21, 2011 9:46 AM
In my opinion, testing gives a false sense of security. A mere illusion of safety in a world where herpes in ubiquitous.
First of all, it takes 12-16 weeks after exposure to the Herpes virus for you to develop enough antibodies for any blood test to work.
Of course the medical professionals aren't going to tell you that. They make a lot of money off of testing.
Secondly, knowing that you can catch either type 1 or type 2 herpes, through kissing, skin to skin contact or genitally would you really feel secure knowing that your partner did not have type 2 herpes (the most common genital form)?
You would be okie dokie with him having type 1 (just as transferable and just as infectious) maybe more so?
They say 40% of genital infections are now type 1 and we are probably moving close to parity with the popularity of oral sex in lieu of actual intercourse.
The majority of people wrongly assume, they can't contract an STD that way. :-)
annon at April 21, 2011 10:19 AM
Anon,What you're saying is true and of course there's always the possibility that someone who tests clean could cheat and pick something up. I don't think testing is a bad starting point though.When I was married, my ex husband was a big cheat and apparently had a lot of unprotected sex. I didn't find out until he came home with Hep B when I was 8 months pregnant. Thankfully I did not contract it, but it was scary. If my husband who I trusted could do that, certainly someone I'm dating could, but I'll still ask for the test every time.
Kristen at April 21, 2011 10:33 AM
Testing isn't perfect, but that and condoms are better than nothing, and testing can pick up things besides herpes. It's like saying kids die in car accidents despite car seats, so no one should use car seats or wear seat belts.
MonicaP at April 21, 2011 10:34 AM
well, boyo is ceratinly going to have to go old skool with his dating...
Well LW, relationship forming is going to have to be paramount, no hookups for you. I'm going to guess this isn't going to be the problem since you are asking the question in the first place.
So. WHERE did you get infected? How did you figure it out, what's the story? This is important' because when you tell her you have it, you have to tell her why, and explain everything...
Then, you can do as Kristen mentioned, and ask her to be tested as well...
you can see how serious all this is, and it's going to suck, because you will be rejected for this on occasion. It isn't a good feeling.
This is, however, a question of Strength of Character. If you show strength like this, eventually you will find someone who likes that aspect of you.
Anon is quite right about how common this is, and all the differing way to get it and so on.
Importantly that does not change who you are or how you present yourself. You must be in ernest for this. Weeks before you are planning on having that night to remember, you need to broach the question... [3rd or 4th date? how fast do you move?] The moment when you are both invested, but not so invested it would feel like a betrayal if you didn't mention it.
It doesn't matter if other people will lie about this, you cannot control them, only yourself.
SwissArmyD at April 21, 2011 10:37 AM
"Testing isn't perfect, but that and condoms are better than nothing, and testing can pick up things besides herpes. It's like saying kids die in car accidents despite car seats, so no one should use car seats or wear seat belts."
Condoms are better than nothing and there are certainly situations and STD's that are worth testing for but Herpes is a minor one in the grand scheme of things.
However, I think that the car seat analogy is a bad one.
A better one would be, someone who insists on checking the safety rating of every single vehicle they got into before going anywhere in it and rejecting a ride in anything that had ever been recalled for a defect that "could" cause a crash.
Never mind that the biggest threat on the road is alcohol and poor driving. Amazing how driving and having a sex life are similar. :-)
This is the degree of risk avoidance that we are talking about here.
Testing for a disease that is not fatal and is often contracted by casual non sexual contact is what we are talking about. This is herpes not AIDS.
You are attempting to move the goal posts in straying off the subject into "other" STD's.
annon at April 21, 2011 10:54 AM
"This is herpes not AIDS."- That doesn't mean other people want it, or that because there might be a high chance that a potential partner has it that you don't tell them you're a carrier.
ahw at April 21, 2011 11:41 AM
I got it from my Ex husband(he cheated on me all the time) 6 weeks after our son was born. He got tired of waiting for me to heal, and forced me to have sex with him. The onset was so bad I had a 106 degree fever and landed in the hospital.
I *never* let things go beyond the "I really like him" stage before having the talk with the person I was dating, and I have never (to my knowledge) passed it to anyone else. Even now, I am so very careful, I take meds and if I even feel a twinge I tell my husband. My husband(current) and I have been married 7 years and he is fine.
I would never do to another person what my Ex did to me.
Kat at April 21, 2011 12:27 PM
I got infected with herpes from my ex-husband several years ago. I too had the same question about telling potential partners once I was single. Here is what I learned and what worked for me. I did not mention it unless I was truly attracted to the man...on several levels, not just sexually. Why put myself through the "talk" unless I really liked someone. The good thing is that having to have a "talk" with potential sex partners, helped me not fling my panties or my self esteem out the window needlessly. So if the person was a jerk, I knew better than to even try to go to the next level and tell him. I kept to my standards regardless of possible merlot goggles or a few lonely weekends sprinkled here or there.
There is no perfect time to say it, but I would do it before we were making out and would allow some time for them to think about it, so they could make a decision without feelings of quilt or blue balls interfering. That said, of the gentlemen I dated that got the "talk" including the one I ended up marrying, all were still interested in seeing me and taking the relationship further. Not a one of them said, "no way". So far I have been successful in not transmitting it to anyone and am living happily ever after.
Been there at April 21, 2011 12:45 PM
That doesn't mean other people want it, or that because there might be a high chance that a potential partner has it that you don't tell them you're a carrier.
Exactly. Just because this isn't fatal doesn't mean people get to be casual about giving it to other people. Hell, it's polite to stay away from people and cover your mouth when you cough when you have the common cold, and that clears up completely.
MonicaP at April 21, 2011 12:54 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/04/21/the_deluge.html#comment-2063903">comment from Been thereThanks, been there -- this is very wise, and basically what I've told herpes sufferers in the past. (My email search, unfortunately, doesn't seem to have herpes -- or be able to locate it.) I know a number of people who have Herpes (and have told me -- people tell me everything), and they take Zovirax and it generally doesn't seem to affect their lives too much -- if at all. If people knew how many people actually have it...
It's the good guys/girls who actually tell you.
Amy Alkon at April 21, 2011 12:56 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/04/21/the_deluge.html#comment-2063908">comment from MonicaPRight on, MonicaP. I don't shake hands with people when I have a cold (generally hate doing it -- like saying, "Here, let's exchange a handful of germs!", but do it anyway. Hate to leave anyone feeling snubbed.)
Amy Alkon at April 21, 2011 1:04 PM
I have herpes. The best I can guess I got it from sharing a towel while visiting family members some years back. I broke out with a patch of nasty sores but because I also had pretty bad acne at the time, and hadn't had sex or even kissed anyone for nearly a year (only hugs), I didn't think it was herpes. I broke out every month and sometimes twice a month for 2 years until the doc finally tested me and said, "You have HSV-1." I'm healthy otherwise (HIV-negative, etc) and rarely get sick, unless I'm fighting herpes, and then I'm miserable.
I got really nervous when I told my boyfriend, because it was clear we were both thinking marriage. I finally came clean, and he responded, "Thank god! I have it, too!" It turns out he also got his in a bizarre, non-sexual way. But we both felt shame regardless. He hasn't broken out since the first time years ago, and doesn't need any medication. But I have to take acyclovir twice a day, and I still break out every couple of months. I'm seeing a new doctor who told me not to worry about herpes. She said way more than 1/4 of the population has it, but they don't show symptoms. Even if a person doesn't have a sore, the healthy-appearing skin cells (with the virus) can be transferred to another person without vigorous rubbing or sharing of body fluids or herpes ooze.
I advise the letter writer that if you've built up a bit of history with someone and you really like them, you should tell them. It's a good test to see if they like you back. But if you're just dating or getting to know someone, don't tell them. It's an unnecessary mark on your dating resume. Anyway, I think HPV is potentially more dangerous anyway and nearly everyone has that. (Seriously, HPV from cunnilingus or fellatio has surpassed tobacco as the number one cause of oral cancer. Also remember, Farrah Fawcett just passed from HPV cancer as well.) Herpes may be gross and disfiguring, but it's not lethal.
Anon at April 21, 2011 3:04 PM
I had one sore in my mouth 29 years ago. My doctor said that it was herpes. No tests were run. She said that cold sores = herpes. I have never again had any problems. She told me no more oral sex or kissing ever.
Really? Would I need to tell every partner that I am infected with herpes? It seems a little extreme to me. Most people know that they might have sex, but sometimes a kiss is more spontaneous.
If any cold sore is herpes, then I agree, most of us have it.
Jen at April 21, 2011 4:52 PM
""This is herpes not AIDS."- That doesn't mean other people want it, or that because there might be a high chance that a potential partner has it that you don't tell them you're a carrier."
I don't disagree but at the same time believe that you should acknowledge that it has more in common with a cold than with "other" STDs
People need to be proactive to protect themselves if they don't already have it and by proactive I mean doing a lot more than just using a condom. It should include not using common items in a gym or any other public place that have not been disinfected in between uses.
In that light you should recognize that a disease you can catch from a communion cup (this happened to a friend of mine) or a towel, such as the example above is not something that we should be making a major issue out of.
I will be happy when the day arrives that everyone who has it realizes that people who don't are not in the majority and we start treating it like it is no big deal, rather than the second coming of the bubonic plague.
For my fellow sufferers. If you are young the worst is probably coming to an end. Outbreaks decrease over time and you may be symptom free in a couple of years. I have had it for 32 years and probably have had no more than 15 active episodes. It is usually triggered by stress, and either of the major medications now available stops them in their tracks.
annon at April 21, 2011 5:06 PM
My opinion is, after the 2nd or 3rd date but before you're even near the bedroom. I don't have it. In the minority or not, I don't care, I don't intent to ever get it. Not cold sores, nothing. It would be a dealbreaker for me, period, but not everyone feels that way by a long shot. So be honest, accept that the other person gets to decide for themselves if they want to take a risk or not (condoms don't stop herpes) and:
I would say, "We had a cople dates now and I like you. I could see this going somewhere. But before it does, I need to let you know that I have herpes. I am on treatment for it, my Dr has discussed with me the proper precautions to take to lower the chance of transmission to my partner, and I'd love to get to know you better. But I want you to have all the facts before we go further".
And when I say before you're in the bedroom, that doesn't mean when you're ripping off the shirts on the way into the bedroom, or making out in the living room. She is probably going to need some time to process it and make her decision.
And FWIW, if you don't tell, you can be sued. Is it worth it? Do you want a relationship based on lies? Do you feel so little for your partner you don't care if you infect them with something incurable, intentionally?
I have high-risk HPV. You better bet I informed Dh about it well before he was Dh. I have no right to risk someone else's life or health, no matter how much I like them or how horny I am. Amd remember-no big deal to you might be monthly painful breakouts for someone else for life-everyone's immune system is different.
momof4 at April 21, 2011 7:03 PM
Catching herpes from a communion cup? That has to be the ultimate in irony.
I'm saddened but not surprised to see all the justifications and duplicitousness from the some of the posters (sure, lie - but just a little bit!). It's the same crap my sibling spews - oh, they didn't ask about it, so I didn't mention it! Nice.
Whether or not 1 in 4 or 80% or everyone and their grandmother has it, if you have a communicable disease, you should tell anyone else that you're putting at risk, especially a disease like this one, that's incurable and is a lot worse for some people than others. I really can't think of an excuse that justifies not doing so. And no, saying you have cold sores doesn't give you a pass, that's disingenuous and deceitful. Would you like someone with AIDs to blithely tell you they're prone to respiratory infections, but don't worry, they take medication and it doesn't really affect them as they breeze out the door the next morning?
Choika at April 26, 2011 6:14 AM
Shortly before its demise in 1999, it was said the channel would bid for rights to show the
barricas at September 2, 2011 9:47 AM
Leave a comment