By the standards that the police want to use -- they can't have security cameras and dash cams either.
Jim P.
at June 12, 2011 5:49 AM
No, those are fine because they "malfunction" when the cop doesn't want the video seen.
Cops are no longer public servants. Our legislatures have turned them into armed revenue agents and para-military strike forces.
They operate outside the law. Keeping themselves off film is the only way to prevent them getting defunded at the city level by outraged citizens.
brian
at June 12, 2011 7:53 AM
Yup, I agree with Brian. Most police care about going home at night alive and their pensions above anything else anymore.
Sio
at June 12, 2011 7:56 AM
Okay, I want to view this, but there is always an obnoxious ad that pops up over the upper-right corner (different one every time) with no way to close it and it doesn't go away after the ad in the video is done. WTF? I'll watch the ad if I have to, but damnit, I also want to view the video unobstructed!!!!
What the hell am I missing here?
Some of the most interesting data may, however, never see the light of day. ATF's affidavits contend that all of its photographic and video evidence met a sticky end. In particular:
The "official" videocam, set up to film the operation, mysteriously ejected its tapes rather than recording them. The agency attributes this to radio interference from nearby transmitters. (Strange, since video remote controls work on infrared, not radio, signals. Just as strange, the agency admits that when it attempted to duplicate the occurence, it was unable to make it happen.).
That wasn't the only "official" videocam filming the front of the building during the raid. There was another, mounted on a tripod beside the communications van. And another at a sniper position. And still another (although this may overlap with one of the first two) filming from an "elevated position." Mysteriously, none of these videotapes can be found. And the agency officials who saw them in the past say that every single camera malfunctioned in the seconds before the raid. (Quality control isn't what it used to be apparently.). The only clue was that these videos may have been given to the Texas Rangers. But when I asked for copies from the Rangers, they replied that the videos were in Rangers' possession, but not in their control. Control was vested in the U.S. Marshall's Office, for whom they had gathered them. I then made a FOIA request to the Marshall's Office.... which said they could not produce them, since they were not in their control. [I've since sent this letter to the Rangers, but have not gotten a reaction.].
The "official" still camera's film....and indeed the official still camera...vanished from a table in raid headquarters, surrounded by Federal agents, during the raid. At least that's what the ATF's Public Information Office swore happened. (Crime may be rising, but you would think a room full of Federal agents would be safe from thieves).
While "unofficial" cameras were there in abundance (three of the four agents killed had them, and the videos of agents show them wandering around snapping pictures), their film seems to have wandered off. Despite a court order, only two rolls of film could be found, neither of them depicting the raid itself.
Since the public regards "history" as "last week's issue of People magazine, things like this are speedily forgotten. Those who remember will also remember to blame the victims of Federal misconduct, because that is easiest.
Radwaste
at June 12, 2011 9:07 AM
"Most police care about going home at night alive "
can't blame them for that!
momof4
at June 12, 2011 11:58 AM
No, we can't. However we can blame the politicians for exposing them to undue risk.
Like making them stand in the middle of a blind curve so they can search cars going both ways for seatbelt violations so they can make more money.
Like making them sit on the side of the road and cause people to slam on their brakes for fear of getting a ticket that costs them thousands in higher insurance premiums.
Like making them bust people's doors down in the middle of the night to serve no-knock warrants based upon faulty information.
brian
at June 12, 2011 12:06 PM
Cops are no longer public servants. Our legislatures have turned them into armed revenue agents and para-military strike forces.
And we're already paying the price for that in a lack of respect for the police, the law, and social order.
When people no longer create a "social order" through their own behavior, society either breaks down into chaos or sees an arbitrary social order maintained by an increasingly militarized police force.
When ordinary police forces are turned into revenue agents - via instruments like ticket or arrest quotas, speed traps, and random checkpoints - they no longer protect and serve, but confiscate and bully.
And then ordinary people no longer look upon police work as societally beneficial - and no longer appreciate the sacrifices made by police officers.
With that, the police become apart from society. Police should be a part of society.
Conan the Grammarian
at June 12, 2011 12:33 PM
The video itself admits that the law surrounding this is incredibly murky and complex. If that's the case, the solution would seem to me to lie with the legislature and not the police.
Snoopy
at June 12, 2011 3:30 PM
"Most police care about going home at night alive."
"Most people care about going home at night alive."
Fixed it for you. You're welcome. :)
According to the BLS website, police work is not even in the top ten jobs most at risk for "not going home at night", but you'd never guess that from listening to all that "putting their lives on the line everyday" crap.
Not Sure
at June 12, 2011 8:12 PM
I'm pretty sure crab fisherman is the top one.
But I'm with Conan - the long-term degradation of respect for the police -- and by extension the law -- is a bad omen.
Which is why the proggs want to disarm the public. They know that there's only so far we can be pushed before it's 1773 all over again.
What happens when they come for the Concord Armory this time?
brian
at June 12, 2011 9:29 PM
Yeah, but crab fishermen take on that risk b/c of the money. Police do it 1) to better society (really, at least at first and for their whole career for most of them. They have families exposed to crime too) and 2) for the pension, because any risk needs to have a perk to make it worth the while.
We could live without crab fishermen. Without cops? Doubt it. ANd one of the things that keeps their job from being #1 is respect for the badge. WHich is eroding....
My brother is a cop. He's the resource officer at the local high school, because he wanted to make the high school better before his sons go there. He had a 17 yr old girl (immigrant from some african country) attack him, injure him to the point he needed surgery and was out of work a good 2 months, and the girl wasn't even expelled. (She was able to injure him b/c he is so restricted in what he can do back w/o a lawsuit and possible firing). WOuld you put up with that crap, for ANY pension?
momof4
at June 13, 2011 6:13 AM
With the technology that exists today, every interaction between any LEO and the public should be video taped. Any testimony or evidence without video that confirms shouldn't meet the standard of proof. This would not be difficult or expensive and would validate the behavior of the honorable and expose the mis-behavior of the corrupt. Of course the heavy lifting will involve the repeal of immunity laws that prevent the prosecution of LEOs and DAs that violate the integrity of justice.
nuzltr2
at June 13, 2011 6:52 AM
1) to better society (really, at least at first and for their whole career for most of them. They have families exposed to crime too)
That might be why they get into it, but it isn't what they end up doing.
The politicians who control them turn them into the very thing we rebelled against.
By the standards that the police want to use -- they can't have security cameras and dash cams either.
Jim P. at June 12, 2011 5:49 AM
No, those are fine because they "malfunction" when the cop doesn't want the video seen.
Cops are no longer public servants. Our legislatures have turned them into armed revenue agents and para-military strike forces.
They operate outside the law. Keeping themselves off film is the only way to prevent them getting defunded at the city level by outraged citizens.
brian at June 12, 2011 7:53 AM
Yup, I agree with Brian. Most police care about going home at night alive and their pensions above anything else anymore.
Sio at June 12, 2011 7:56 AM
Okay, I want to view this, but there is always an obnoxious ad that pops up over the upper-right corner (different one every time) with no way to close it and it doesn't go away after the ad in the video is done. WTF? I'll watch the ad if I have to, but damnit, I also want to view the video unobstructed!!!!
What the hell am I missing here?
Jim Armstrong at June 12, 2011 8:32 AM
Sorry. Just embedded a new version of the video.
Amy Alkon at June 12, 2011 8:49 AM
Ah. Thanks!
I'm old and cranky and figured I was missing something!
Jim Armstrong at June 12, 2011 8:50 AM
Minitrue wants to make sure that it has control of information, just as it reserves for itself deadly force.
Step on back to 1993, and find out what went on. Here's an excerpt:
Since the public regards "history" as "last week's issue of People magazine, things like this are speedily forgotten. Those who remember will also remember to blame the victims of Federal misconduct, because that is easiest.
Radwaste at June 12, 2011 9:07 AM
"Most police care about going home at night alive "
can't blame them for that!
momof4 at June 12, 2011 11:58 AM
No, we can't. However we can blame the politicians for exposing them to undue risk.
Like making them stand in the middle of a blind curve so they can search cars going both ways for seatbelt violations so they can make more money.
Like making them sit on the side of the road and cause people to slam on their brakes for fear of getting a ticket that costs them thousands in higher insurance premiums.
Like making them bust people's doors down in the middle of the night to serve no-knock warrants based upon faulty information.
brian at June 12, 2011 12:06 PM
And we're already paying the price for that in a lack of respect for the police, the law, and social order.
When people no longer create a "social order" through their own behavior, society either breaks down into chaos or sees an arbitrary social order maintained by an increasingly militarized police force.
When ordinary police forces are turned into revenue agents - via instruments like ticket or arrest quotas, speed traps, and random checkpoints - they no longer protect and serve, but confiscate and bully.
And then ordinary people no longer look upon police work as societally beneficial - and no longer appreciate the sacrifices made by police officers.
With that, the police become apart from society. Police should be a part of society.
Conan the Grammarian at June 12, 2011 12:33 PM
The video itself admits that the law surrounding this is incredibly murky and complex. If that's the case, the solution would seem to me to lie with the legislature and not the police.
Snoopy at June 12, 2011 3:30 PM
"Most police care about going home at night alive."
"Most people care about going home at night alive."
Fixed it for you. You're welcome. :)
According to the BLS website, police work is not even in the top ten jobs most at risk for "not going home at night", but you'd never guess that from listening to all that "putting their lives on the line everyday" crap.
Not Sure at June 12, 2011 8:12 PM
I'm pretty sure crab fisherman is the top one.
But I'm with Conan - the long-term degradation of respect for the police -- and by extension the law -- is a bad omen.
Which is why the proggs want to disarm the public. They know that there's only so far we can be pushed before it's 1773 all over again.
What happens when they come for the Concord Armory this time?
brian at June 12, 2011 9:29 PM
Yeah, but crab fishermen take on that risk b/c of the money. Police do it 1) to better society (really, at least at first and for their whole career for most of them. They have families exposed to crime too) and 2) for the pension, because any risk needs to have a perk to make it worth the while.
We could live without crab fishermen. Without cops? Doubt it. ANd one of the things that keeps their job from being #1 is respect for the badge. WHich is eroding....
My brother is a cop. He's the resource officer at the local high school, because he wanted to make the high school better before his sons go there. He had a 17 yr old girl (immigrant from some african country) attack him, injure him to the point he needed surgery and was out of work a good 2 months, and the girl wasn't even expelled. (She was able to injure him b/c he is so restricted in what he can do back w/o a lawsuit and possible firing). WOuld you put up with that crap, for ANY pension?
momof4 at June 13, 2011 6:13 AM
With the technology that exists today, every interaction between any LEO and the public should be video taped. Any testimony or evidence without video that confirms shouldn't meet the standard of proof. This would not be difficult or expensive and would validate the behavior of the honorable and expose the mis-behavior of the corrupt. Of course the heavy lifting will involve the repeal of immunity laws that prevent the prosecution of LEOs and DAs that violate the integrity of justice.
nuzltr2 at June 13, 2011 6:52 AM
That might be why they get into it, but it isn't what they end up doing.
The politicians who control them turn them into the very thing we rebelled against.
brian at June 13, 2011 12:48 PM
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