I've got no problem with:

"Work should be a condition of privileges allowed -- and of release.

Crime isn't supposed to pay, but it pays and pays again if taxpayers are shelling out for the room and board of society's scumbags"

....at least in principle, but the sad reality is that providing meaningful work opportunities for prisoners costs a lot more money than letting them veg / rot in front of a TV screen.

Chain gangs won't do much to develop their employability (and there's a limit to how much completely unskilled manual labour is needed). You can't hire them out as cheap labour either because, if you do, it distorts the market place and puts unfair pressure on private businesses. Besides, they're not particularly employable without training (back to funding again).

You could remove privileges altogether and make prison harsher. Unfortunately that's never appeared to alter recidivism rates for the better, wherever it's been tried, and all you end up doing is brutalising the weaker prisoners and putting prison staff at increased risk as the tension gets ratcheted up.

Unfortunately, unless someone's prepared to throw pots of (non-existant these days) money at the problem, using TVs and games consoles as pacifiers is about all that prison governers can do these days. That or slip some Ritalin into the mash (and watch the compo lawyers salivate when they find out).

Metalworking, plumbing, electrical work, landscaping...these are all things they could be doing right in the prison were the unions not going to throw a fit, and have the possibility of knowing something that will earn a living outside.

Meant to add, with the added bonus of tiring them the fuck out. Tired prisoners cause less problems.

What ever happened to the chain gangs we saw when we were kids? I remember the buses with barred windows, guards with shotguns, and balls and chains attached to the prisoners legs. Those were the good old days.

Anyone ever see No Escape?

I'd suggest a prison system where petty criminals are fined and made to reimburse their victims every cent stolen plus 10% and reimburse the state for the cost of their trial.

Until such time as their debt is paid they wear a moniter, live in barrazcks style housing, eat a a comunal kitchen and have every dime they earn taken from them until they pay off their debt.

For crimes like rape and murder I say dump them on an island, use the mility to prevent esacpes as the military need to do live action training anyway your killing two birds with one stone - and the prisoners can grow their own food or starve as they will have no supervison and have to fend for themselves

I saw some county jail inmates training assistance dogs last week on my way to work... and I do sometimes see imates picking up trash on the roadsides. I'd assume that getting that type of job (especially the dog training) is a big privilege.

I'm sure hard work and lots of structure would do worlds of good for most inmates, but I don't know how much oversight that would require. That's why the TV is the babysitter... much like it probably was when they were children.

Well, before you go all draconian on the prisoners, maybe we should reform the current crime and punishment system so that we don't send so many people to prison for useless(no benefit to society) reasons, such as drug possesion, inability to pay child support or the CA three strikes law where a third "minor" felony sends you to prison for 20 years, to name a few.

I agree matt, which is why I suggested fines

"Just wondering, what's a "minor" felony?"

Shoplifting, for starters.

I feel the same way about the debate here that I do about the debate over the morality over the death penalty. It's completely irrelevant. Until we have a justice system that actually attempts some sort of reasonable, level playing field, the rest of it is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

The war on drugs has been a catastrophic failure (unless you think its actual purpose was to put generations of young men black men behind bars), and has led us to the hideous state we're in now, with horrific overcrowding in prisons. People talk about the stuff you're talking about as though it's a given that everyone in jail actually belongs there. It's a casual, indifferent kind of cruelty.

I agree with Matt.

And if we are going to discuss alternative forms of punishment someone should bring up flogging.

http://chronicle.com/article/In-Defense-of-Flogging/127208/

Bonus actual island prison for lujlp. It is insane!

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2011/06/03/world/americas/100000000849275/venezuelas-prison-paradise.html

Metalworking? Surely, you're not suggesting we give prison inmates tools used to shape, cut, and melt metal objects, are you?

Aside from the fact that they'd pose a danger to other inmates, that would undoubtedly increase the number of escapes.

"Work should be a condition of privileges allowed -- and of release."

I have no problem with making work a condition of privileges allowed...or even of the amount of money they have in the commissary...but of release? Yeah, I have a problem with that. You're sentenced to x amount of time. You cannot decide for them, "You were sentenced to five years, but since you didn't work, we're holding you indefinitely." And there are some people in prison who have physical challenges that preclude them from certain activities...how long before they sue for discrimination?

Personally, my vote is for more of this stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnk7lh9M3o

Just wondering, what's a "minor" felony?

Statutory rape is generally a class D felony. So is possession of more than a certain amount of narcotics, including pot. (Like the amount of two plants that you would have just after you harvest.)

Just pointing it out....

"Metalworking? Surely, you're not suggesting we give prison inmates tools used to shape, cut, and melt metal objects, are you?"

They already possess this knowledge in the amounts needed to form shanks. I suggest channeling that to lifting and hauling massive pieces of steel for 8 hours a day. Much like my dog- a tired prisoner can't cause mischief. Oh, and might be able to get a job when released. But I am not married to the specific jobs. Give them (let them earn and learn) skills they can use inside to prison to lower maintanence costs for the prison (without competing in the wider market against noncons) that can also translate to the future.

"Just wondering, what's a "minor" felony?"

Martha Stewart's rampage o' crime, for starters.