Well, color me a hopeful agnostic, but really I think the only way we "live on" is through our works and the memories of our loved ones. I'd love to think I could be reincarnated and do it all again, but yeah, I'm pretty sure dead is dead.
That sucks.
Knowing that, however, WHAT MARK DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ON THE WORLD???
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/06/14/is_there_an_aft.html#comment-2256009">comment from Daghain
Better make it now, because there's no evidence there's a heaven or a hell, although religions get a lot of mileage out of telling you those places exist.
Short of becoming the next mass murdering tyrant, I'm of the opinion that for the bulk of humanity it doesn't matter what mark you make: in a 1,000 years no one will remember you.
I R A Darth Aggie
at June 14, 2011 6:15 AM
Short of becoming the next mass murdering tyrant,
Was I not supposed to aspire to that? Damn.
MonicaP
at June 14, 2011 6:57 AM
I have identical twins. They are genetically identical (okay, 99.9999999999999+ identical, some mutations do arise post-split) and of course have been raised in the exact same environment from conception on (literally, in the same amniotic sac-they're mono-monos), by the exact same people. They are very different little girls. I say it's the soul and of course the soul lives on. SOme say otherwise. Either I'm right or won't know the difference so I don't know why others insist on trying to convince people there is no afterlife. What, like I'd go on a murdering spree if only I didn't have to worry about hell? Not likely. I live how I live and that wouldn't change.
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/06/14/is_there_an_aft.html#comment-2257319">comment from momof4
How cool, momof4, about your twins. My friend Nancy Segal is the premier twins researcher in the world. You might want to read some of her books. She's a fraternal (dizygotic) twin.
Like Dilbert, I am going to eschew cremation and be buried...so I leave at least one lasting impression on the world.
...in 1,000 years no one will remember you.
"The lone and level sands stretch far away."
Yet, 4,000 years later we do remember Ramesses.
Conan the Grammarian
at June 14, 2011 9:08 AM
heh, I wonder if such ideas will be seen quaint in 500 years... especially if the science behind the universe being actually made of information...
"Is the universe actually made of information?
Humans have talked about atoms since the time of the ancients, and ever-smaller fundamental particles of matter followed. But no one even conceived of bits until the middle of the 20th century. The bit is a fundamental particle, too, but of different stuff altogether: information. It is not just tiny, it is abstract - a flip-flop, a yes-or-no. Now that scientists are finally starting to understand information, they wonder whether it’s more fundamental than matter itself. Perhaps the bit is the irreducible kernel of existence; if so, we have entered the information age in more ways than one." - James Gleick
From a great Wired page called what we don't know. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.02/bigquestions.html?pg=3#questions
We don't know what makes up 96% of the universe... so we call it "Dark Matter"
Every question we ask produces a ton more, so who are wqe to believe we have all the answers? If you dun' want to believe in an afterlife... don't... We don't, either of us, know or understand the truth. It is laudable to base everything on evidence, but evidence changes. Our understanding of meaning also changes.
If the universe was to be made of information fundamentally, then your information and thus your existance might last forever, or some other length of time than this physical life. This is beyond our understanding now, but in 500 years? Perhaps it will be quaint. "You guys were in the dark ages then..."
If you live your life based on the evidence, tread lightly. You can't know everything.
SwissArmyD
at June 14, 2011 10:28 AM
but in 500 years? Perhaps it will be quaint. "You guys were in the dark ages then..."
I doubt it, we ridicule the dark ages because thery were burning witches, and blood letting and carving open stomachs to find the little dwarf sprites causing illness. I've yet to hear anyone ridicule Gutenberg for mearly creating a printing press and failing to create a 500Ram 50 Gig word processor with 2000 fonts and an extension pak for Klingon and Tolkien High Elvish
Thank you Amy. I not only watched the teaser you mentioned but sat through the entire hour and a half of the full debate. It was the most enjoyable debate I've ever watched.
Ray
at June 14, 2011 11:54 AM
SwissArmyD, I'm with you.
The more one knows about quantum physics, the less sure one can be about the non-existence of an "afterlife." Energy cannot be destroyed. Patterns of energy define our minds. Patterns which replicate themselves at the subatomic level -- and at a distance. Why not call this indestructible, unique pattern of energy a "soul"?
We only exist due to the presence of multiple hidden dimensions of space-time, and the vibrations of tiny, invisible "strings". Explain that, all you committed atheists, before you prattle on about the ignorance of those who do believe in God and an afterlife, and before you mock the existence of "heaven" -- a place, like those hidden dimensions, that exists, yet cannot be reached due to the limitations of our physical reality.
The absolute belief in the non-existence of an afterlife is dependent on ignorance, not the other way around. Any one who says other than, "I don't know; it's a mystery" is an arrogant fool.
Jay R
at June 14, 2011 12:41 PM
I've never heard a single athiest say they difinitvly know the nature of "ALL THINGS"
The only thing we do say is we know there is no evidence of any god, let alone the constantly shifting charecture most monotheists worahip and claim is perfect and unchanging.
Personally, I'd love for there to be an afterlife assuming I could spend it sitting on the shoreline for centuries as the atlanitc ocean spilled in the valley between Europe and Africa to create the Medditeranian, or watch the gas cloud that became our sun collapse under its own weight and burst into flame.
Unfortunatly there is no quantifiable, objective evidence of any such state of being existing.
And as for energy never dying, while that is true whos to say your "soul's" electrical impusle isnt swallowed up and spin into individual electrons coursing alnog the earth magnetic feild with no retention of your personality?
If heaven is real then it's full of aborted fetii, preachers, suicide bombers, and people who cut off their hands and plucked out their eyes for offending, um, themselves.
If hell is real it's full of people who said "goddammit".
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers
at June 14, 2011 4:56 PM
And as for energy never dying, while that is true who's to say your "soul's" electrical impusle isnt swallowed up and spun into individual electrons coursing along the Earth's magnetic field with no retention of your personality?
Why limit it to Earth's magnetic field?
I long ago read a book that postulated beings (human and otherwise) as simply intelligences that were able in the spinning maelstrom to keep their particles together long enough to create an physical identity and manufacture a physical reality in which to live.
The book was a re-thinking of Milton, so there was Yaweh and angels and Michael, rebellion, and heaven and hell.
Well, color me a hopeful agnostic, but really I think the only way we "live on" is through our works and the memories of our loved ones. I'd love to think I could be reincarnated and do it all again, but yeah, I'm pretty sure dead is dead.
That sucks.
Knowing that, however, WHAT MARK DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ON THE WORLD???
Daghain at June 14, 2011 12:19 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/06/14/is_there_an_aft.html#comment-2256009">comment from DaghainBetter make it now, because there's no evidence there's a heaven or a hell, although religions get a lot of mileage out of telling you those places exist.
Amy Alkon at June 14, 2011 12:20 AM
WHAT MARK DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ON THE WORLD???
Short of becoming the next mass murdering tyrant, I'm of the opinion that for the bulk of humanity it doesn't matter what mark you make: in a 1,000 years no one will remember you.
I R A Darth Aggie at June 14, 2011 6:15 AM
Short of becoming the next mass murdering tyrant,
Was I not supposed to aspire to that? Damn.
MonicaP at June 14, 2011 6:57 AM
I have identical twins. They are genetically identical (okay, 99.9999999999999+ identical, some mutations do arise post-split) and of course have been raised in the exact same environment from conception on (literally, in the same amniotic sac-they're mono-monos), by the exact same people. They are very different little girls. I say it's the soul and of course the soul lives on. SOme say otherwise. Either I'm right or won't know the difference so I don't know why others insist on trying to convince people there is no afterlife. What, like I'd go on a murdering spree if only I didn't have to worry about hell? Not likely. I live how I live and that wouldn't change.
momof4 at June 14, 2011 8:00 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/06/14/is_there_an_aft.html#comment-2257319">comment from momof4How cool, momof4, about your twins. My friend Nancy Segal is the premier twins researcher in the world. You might want to read some of her books. She's a fraternal (dizygotic) twin.
Amy Alkon at June 14, 2011 8:02 AM
Like Dilbert, I am going to eschew cremation and be buried...so I leave at least one lasting impression on the world.
"The lone and level sands stretch far away."
Yet, 4,000 years later we do remember Ramesses.
Conan the Grammarian at June 14, 2011 9:08 AM
heh, I wonder if such ideas will be seen quaint in 500 years... especially if the science behind the universe being actually made of information...
"Is the universe actually made of information?
Humans have talked about atoms since the time of the ancients, and ever-smaller fundamental particles of matter followed. But no one even conceived of bits until the middle of the 20th century. The bit is a fundamental particle, too, but of different stuff altogether: information. It is not just tiny, it is abstract - a flip-flop, a yes-or-no. Now that scientists are finally starting to understand information, they wonder whether it’s more fundamental than matter itself. Perhaps the bit is the irreducible kernel of existence; if so, we have entered the information age in more ways than one." - James Gleick
From a great Wired page called what we don't know.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.02/bigquestions.html?pg=3#questions
We don't know what makes up 96% of the universe... so we call it "Dark Matter"
Every question we ask produces a ton more, so who are wqe to believe we have all the answers? If you dun' want to believe in an afterlife... don't... We don't, either of us, know or understand the truth. It is laudable to base everything on evidence, but evidence changes. Our understanding of meaning also changes.
If the universe was to be made of information fundamentally, then your information and thus your existance might last forever, or some other length of time than this physical life. This is beyond our understanding now, but in 500 years? Perhaps it will be quaint. "You guys were in the dark ages then..."
If you live your life based on the evidence, tread lightly. You can't know everything.
SwissArmyD at June 14, 2011 10:28 AM
but in 500 years? Perhaps it will be quaint. "You guys were in the dark ages then..."
I doubt it, we ridicule the dark ages because thery were burning witches, and blood letting and carving open stomachs to find the little dwarf sprites causing illness. I've yet to hear anyone ridicule Gutenberg for mearly creating a printing press and failing to create a 500Ram 50 Gig word processor with 2000 fonts and an extension pak for Klingon and Tolkien High Elvish
lujlp at June 14, 2011 11:43 AM
Thank you Amy. I not only watched the teaser you mentioned but sat through the entire hour and a half of the full debate. It was the most enjoyable debate I've ever watched.
Ray at June 14, 2011 11:54 AM
SwissArmyD, I'm with you.
The more one knows about quantum physics, the less sure one can be about the non-existence of an "afterlife." Energy cannot be destroyed. Patterns of energy define our minds. Patterns which replicate themselves at the subatomic level -- and at a distance. Why not call this indestructible, unique pattern of energy a "soul"?
We only exist due to the presence of multiple hidden dimensions of space-time, and the vibrations of tiny, invisible "strings". Explain that, all you committed atheists, before you prattle on about the ignorance of those who do believe in God and an afterlife, and before you mock the existence of "heaven" -- a place, like those hidden dimensions, that exists, yet cannot be reached due to the limitations of our physical reality.
The absolute belief in the non-existence of an afterlife is dependent on ignorance, not the other way around. Any one who says other than, "I don't know; it's a mystery" is an arrogant fool.
Jay R at June 14, 2011 12:41 PM
I've never heard a single athiest say they difinitvly know the nature of "ALL THINGS"
The only thing we do say is we know there is no evidence of any god, let alone the constantly shifting charecture most monotheists worahip and claim is perfect and unchanging.
Personally, I'd love for there to be an afterlife assuming I could spend it sitting on the shoreline for centuries as the atlanitc ocean spilled in the valley between Europe and Africa to create the Medditeranian, or watch the gas cloud that became our sun collapse under its own weight and burst into flame.
Unfortunatly there is no quantifiable, objective evidence of any such state of being existing.
And as for energy never dying, while that is true whos to say your "soul's" electrical impusle isnt swallowed up and spin into individual electrons coursing alnog the earth magnetic feild with no retention of your personality?
lujlp at June 14, 2011 1:59 PM
If heaven is real then it's full of aborted fetii, preachers, suicide bombers, and people who cut off their hands and plucked out their eyes for offending, um, themselves.
If hell is real it's full of people who said "goddammit".
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at June 14, 2011 4:56 PM
Why limit it to Earth's magnetic field?
I long ago read a book that postulated beings (human and otherwise) as simply intelligences that were able in the spinning maelstrom to keep their particles together long enough to create an physical identity and manufacture a physical reality in which to live.
The book was a re-thinking of Milton, so there was Yaweh and angels and Michael, rebellion, and heaven and hell.
Conan the Grammarian at June 15, 2011 9:37 AM
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