Why Is This America's Job?
I think it's terrible the way women are treated in Afghanistan and in pretty much all Muslim-majority countries, but it's up to Muslims to reform Islam; Americans in the military shouldn't be getting their legs blown off "to ensure that little girls get to school," as my friend radio host John Phillips put it on his KABC show yesterday.
We cannot afford to be the world's policeman, and we should not be intervening in any other country where the intervention does not stem from our national interests. "No nation building!" as George Bush put it -- before spearheading the invasion of Iraq. Saddam was a bad guy, terrible to the Kurds, but this shouldn't be our problem. Yet so many assume it should be, simply because people are suffering.
On The Daily Beast, Gayle Tzemach Lemmon writes:
Last May, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pledged to female Afghan officials that "we will not abandon you, we will stand with you always."
And then there's this:
Ever since, Afghan women have been speaking out about the risk that the international community's exit could end the progress they have made in the last 10 years, a decade in which women have won seats in parliament, girls have returned to school, and civil society has started to find its footing.
Let the "international community" keep working on this -- after you fix the broken U.N., where countries like Libya are seriously considered in speaking out against human rights violations.
"Ever since, Afghan women have been speaking out about the risk that the international community's exit could end the progress they have made in the last 10 years, ..."
Easy fix - give Afghan women guns and enough ammunition to defend all this progress. If they are unable or uwilling to defend themsleves and their rights, how able will able will or how willing should anyone else be?
""we will not abandon you, we will stand with you always."
"We", Hillary? You have been a kick-ass Secretary of State, and I thank you for that. But you are a woman, and we all know that it is not women who are on those combat patrols that are maintaining whatever security is making these gains possible. So kindly drop this "we" bullshit. Go spend oyur own blood. And what about that daughter of yours?
Jim at June 23, 2011 9:23 AM
Ya know, I think it's wonderful that all these bleeding heart liberals are so caring about everyone, but did any of 'em ever stop to think of the logistics of being the "police of the world"? And what it means to OUR country?
Flynne at June 23, 2011 10:04 AM
So how does that "If women were in charge there would be no war" thing make sense?
More feminist bullshit.
Jay R at June 23, 2011 11:15 AM
There is no "reform of Islam" - the Koran is God's word passed down through Mohammed.
You can fight them there, or you can fight them here, or you can submit.
MarkD at June 23, 2011 11:16 AM
Agreed. It's very sad, and if some NGOs want to work there I would happily donate to them, but it is not the job of the US military to invade other countries and to civilize them. Now granted, if it is a country we are occupying, we are then responsible as the occupiers. So here's the solution... let's not go around occupying countries.
NicoleK at June 23, 2011 11:51 AM
"Let the 'international community' keep working on this -- after you fix the broken U.N., where countries like Libya are seriously considered in speaking out against human rights violations."
Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!! That's good stuff. The international community. Nice. Even if the U.N. had any credibility whatsoever on human rights (or anything else, aside from gang rape and human trafficking - the practice of, not the prevention), any action the U.N. took would basically be financed entirely by the US. Not sure how that's any different.
Jason at June 23, 2011 1:23 PM
Nation building is a slippery slope...I think helping rebuild the infrastructure after 1988 would have helped in Afghanistan. South Korea, Japan, (West) Germany were great examples of development without explicit nation building. Just leaving Afghanistan after 1988 resulted in the Taliban. Leaving Germany after WWII would have resulted in similar, I bet.
biff at June 23, 2011 1:54 PM
Flynne, do you remember the "what have the Romans ever done for us?" scene from Life of Brian?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSELOCMmw4A
The Romans spent a lot of time thinking about the logistics of being the police of the ancient world!
Martin (Ontario) at June 23, 2011 1:54 PM
You can fight them there, or you can fight them here, or you can submit.
Exactly right. We should not be there to build schools, tho we do. We are there to kick the ass of the islamic terrorists that call that country home, and to teach the people that support them that it is a very bad idea to do so. I personally would like to see carpet bombing, but then, I'm a blood thirsty nastybad who thinks if you kill innocent people, you should die for it. Or even if you support those that do.
When War is really a war again, instead of some stupid libtard social experiment, it will be short, cost a tenth of what this crap has, and at the end the bad guys will be dead or crying in the corner like little girls.
I remember 911. I remember a 3 month old baby beheaded in her crib, and a thousand other attrocities that they want to bring here, and I want them dead. period.
Kat at June 23, 2011 3:47 PM
Yeah, Martin, but besides that....
o.O
PS Thanks for the laugh, I had totally forgotten that scene!
Flynne at June 23, 2011 5:20 PM
OK, but how do you carpet bomb the bad guys without yourself beheading 3-month-olds in cribs? And once you've beheaded enough babies, what then?
Not useful.
NicoleK at June 23, 2011 11:53 PM
Worked against the Germans & Japanese NicoleK.
War is hell.
Robert at June 24, 2011 8:40 AM
I know someone in the Red Cross who just finished a tour in Iraq, followed by a visit to the USA. She said that she had to stop telling people she had just been in Iraq.
Why? Because when she told them she had been in Iraq, Americans would break their arms patting themselves on the back. "It must be so much better now!" When she explained that the Red Cross was there precisely because America has turned Iraq into an utter disaster, well, people flat-out refused to accept it. Unpleasantness ensued.
Iraq used to be a secular state. You didn't want to piss off any government officials, but otherwise you could go about your life normally. Thanks to the USA, Iraq is now dominated by Islamists, nothing works, and violence is everywhere. Gee, thanks, America.
Afghanstan is much the same. Going in after Bin Laden's group right after 9/11 made sense. Staying was stupid, and has only made a bad situation worse.
The USA not the world's policeman. More: the USA should stop "helping" other countries by invading them. Afghanistan, Iraq and now Libya. Who's next? Syria? Iran? Somalia? Truly, the road to hell is paved with good intentions...
a_random_guy at June 24, 2011 9:35 AM
When she explained that the Red Cross was there precisely because America has turned Iraq into an utter disaster, well, people flat-out refused to accept it.
That is utter and complete bullshit. Tell that to the people who had to watch their wives and daughters raped in the rape rooms, and they had children tortured by stinging them with scorpions and wasps as their parents watched, too.
You have the "Well, at lease some of it was normal, so let's ignore the truly horrible, awful times that it isn't"
Lame, and naive to say the least. The only reason Iraq was a "secular" country is that Saddam was a big enough asshole and strongman to not need religion to control the people.
There was no infrastructure to speak of, electricity was erratic at best, and clean water was a luxury. Under Saddam, you could be tortured, raped, fed to plastic shredders, and no one would lift a hand to help you because they had the same "At least it's not me" attitude.
The US didn't turn that country into the hellhole it was, Saddam and his cronies did.
So Futue te ipsum, est caballum tuum to anyone who says otherwise. We should not have to fix the fact that an insane dictator supports terrorists and murders his own people, but the rest of the world won't, so who the hell else will? Or should we sit and wait for the nuclear arrmagedon that will make 911 look like a picnic?
Kat at June 24, 2011 10:45 AM
It is odd that the USA spent $3 trillion to create Islamic states in Afghanie and Iraq. Afghanie, in addition, is a narco state, and they hang people who convert to Christianity. US Marines have protected opium fields of warlords loyal to Karzai.
Women have it awful in Islamic states. Their freedoms are violated. It was the same for many people in Commie states.
We could invade about 79 countries if we want to try to ensure human rights globally.
I am sure our efforts in Iraq and Afghanie will be fruitless, and even counterproductive, as well as bankrupting us.
It is not patriotic to assume a foreign-military policy that wrecks the US economy.
BOTU at June 24, 2011 10:46 AM
Bankrupting us? Have you ever seen what Congress wastes in only one day? Social programs are what are bankrupting us.That and greedy "public servants" that retire on full salary at 55. Pretty much everything Congress touches, basically.
Women have it awful in Islamic states. Their freedoms are violated. It was the same for many people in Commie states
Wow, just wow. Way to rationalize. If my "freedoms" were ever violated in the way that theirs are, I would go down fighting myself. Unfortunately, most have been beaten so low, they have to stand on a stepstool to see over the wall of apathy that surrounds you.
If we had done this right, the war would be over and Iraq and Afghanistan would be on their way to becoming decent places, instead we ring our hands about tolerance and let the bad guys run the show because our State Dept wouldn't know a terrorist from a hole in the ground. Our Intelligence community isn't, and the Military is hamstrung by both.
And my take isn't from a patriotic view, it's pure, unadulterated self interest and preservation. I've seen the videos, read what those assholes have done and intend on doing, to us, and I don't think saying "Oh hell no!" to a flat out, roll on your puppy back and piss yourself policy is wrong.
Kat at June 24, 2011 11:01 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/06/23/why_is_this_ame.html#comment-2300652">comment from KatPeople who feel as you do, Kat, can feel free to donate all their money to bring together a mercenary army to fight in Iraq and all the other places around the world where people are suffering.
Amy Alkon at June 24, 2011 11:06 AM
"That is utter and complete bullshit. Tell that to the people who had to watch their wives and daughters raped in the rape rooms, and they had children tortured by stinging them with scorpions and wasps as their parents watched, too. You have the 'Well, at lease some of it was normal, so let's ignore the truly horrible, awful times that it isn't'"
Ah, exactly the reaction she complained of - thank you for supporting my point. Were you in Iraq with Hussein? Have you been there since? She has, most recently just a few weeks ago. I'll believe her over you.
Iraq was not a nice place under Hussein. But, according to my acquaintence, you have it backwards. Before, life was mostly ok as long as you stayed under the radar. Now, most of it is truly horrible.
Anyway, the point of this is simply to add weight to this thread: it is none of America's business. Most people do not want us to fix their country, especially since we almost inevitably just make things worse. What's that dreaded old saying? Ah, yes: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."
a_random_guy at June 24, 2011 11:08 AM
I forgot one point. You say "We should not have to fix the fact that an insane dictator supports terrorists and murders his own people, but the rest of the world won't, so who the hell else will?".
Hussein was secular. He did not support terrorists, indeed, he was pretty isolated in the Arabic world. Even Bush never claimed Hussein supported Al Qaeda.
People happily assumed this, I mean, why else invade? Bush, Cheney & Co. were undoubtedly delighted at this. That doesn't make it true, though.
a_random_guy at June 24, 2011 11:12 AM
A fast acting superflu combined with ebola dropped on Mecca during the Hajj would solve alot of problems
lujlp at June 24, 2011 7:38 PM
lujlp,
you are off the chain!
lol
kg at June 24, 2011 10:38 PM
Goddess Asks:
Why Is This America's Job?
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Because if we don't go over there, they come over here.
Remember?
There are these things called airplanes -
Remember?
Being the world's policeman is the flip side of benefiting from a open, global economy.
Germany and Japan are no longer threats to the US because we spent 40 years rejiggering/demilitarizing their cultures.
Ben David at June 25, 2011 12:56 PM
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