Asshole Of The Day
Grammar nut writes me about my reply to his previous email:
Thank you for your prompt response. I shall not rectify your errors therein.
I wrote him in response to an email he sent me criticizing the use of "on" in a headline over my column in a daily paper. I responded that copyeditors write the headlines in daily papers, and I had nothing to do with it.
Meanwhile, the guy writes in bold red type with black and yellow highlighting -- not exactly easy on the eyes. When I wrote him that although I didn't write the headline, I generally go with what's colloquial over what's perfectly correct.
I quoted Elmore Leonard from his "10 Rules of Writing":
"If proper usage gets in the way, it may have to go."
The guy wrote back (again, in bold, red type with black and yellow highlighting where I've boldfaced bits of words, and with no paragraph separations between sentences in this block of text):
Thank you for your prompt response. I shall not rectify your errors therein; however, Leonard's completely-wrong assertion disproves itself because, of course, contextually, the verb is not, "may", but, "might"! "May" indicates permission; the contextually-requisite, "might", indicates possibility! Consider the comprehensive difference between a judge telling a defendant that, "You may leave the courtroom" -- thereby giving him permission to do so -- and, "You might leave the courtroom" -- indicating that there is a possibility of leaving if the defendant fulfills certain conditions and/or is deemed, "innocent"! Continually-Comprehensively-Correctly, Dr. (NAME REMOVED, along with his embarrassing, self-aggrandizing nickname for himself)
I sense that he's an old guy and I feel a little sorry for anybody who has such an apparent need to be superior that they send out emails like this or even think of correcting somebody's email and sending it back to them.
By the way, my copy editor, Super Dave (my nickname for him) knows every grammar rule there is, but he also knows that I want to be readable. A correction from Super Dave notes what would be right, but often notes that I'll probably want to go with the colloquial...which I usually do.
Again, I write to be read. I'm not 20 and insecure, so I don't need to have perfect grammar -- if imperfect grammar seems to be more readable or have better rhythm. For example, I'll often use "if" when I know "whether" is correct. "If" sometimes just sounds better.
And I'm not going to write you an email in bold red type with weird highlighting, because it's going to be hard on the eye, and I care about whether you're going to find it easy to read.
UPDATE: It gets better! The guy wrote back and corrected the response I dashed off to him. Here's a screenshot of his email:
This was my pre-correction response to him:
You've got to be a lot of fun at a dinner party. And Leonard writes collloquially, to be readable, not to show off his grammar. My copy editor, Super Dave (my nickname for him) knows every grammar rule there is, but he also knows that I want to be readable. You criticized me for something and then when you learned from me that a copy editor wrote the headline, wrote nothing about that in response. No "Sorry, didn't know that," nothing. Your rigidity and smugness in hammering people with grammar rules is similar to how I behaved in my early 20s (because I was insecure). And you continue to write in red, in bold, despite the fact that I mentioned that it is hard to read." I shall not rectify your errors therein;"
A person who copyedits an email...or even thinks of it...is a person who has a desperate need to show superiority over other people, which is a trait that often comes from narcissistic personality disorder.
Sad that you're a grown adult who feels the need to do this.
Everyone needs something to do and it looks like this man's hobby is to proofread published work. He can't be reasoned with. If he got it, he'd have no hobbies.
Kristen at August 20, 2011 7:03 AM
Goddammit, DON'T BE MEAN TO BITTER OLD MEN WHO WRITE ALL PRISSY.
Secondly, if we all agreed right here and right now to never use the word "shall" again, it would like totally lead to a more compassionate and sustainable America.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at August 20, 2011 7:28 AM
if we all agreed right here and right now to never use the word "shall" again, it would like totally lead to a more compassionate and sustainable America.
Word!
Amy Alkon at August 20, 2011 7:35 AM
This absolutely screams "borderline". Hilarious!
Cousin Dave at August 20, 2011 7:47 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2430098">comment from Amy AlkonSad. Guy just wrote back, "If you learn nothing from me..."
First of all, I answer tons of email, and my priority is getting to everyone, not whether I have a dangling something-or-other. Second, I don't care if I have a dangling something-or-other in my column if that sounds best, and if it's how people talk. Third, I was in a bullshit "gifted children" program in school and got sent off to label trees when everyone else was taking grammar, so I have no fucking idea what a dangling participle even is (I think that's what dangles, unless some guy is running around naked). I happen to have an innate sense of grammar from reading, but I get plenty of little things wrong, but Super Dave is there to save me when it counts -- when I'm sending my column out for publication. If I self-publish a book, I will hire him freelance, because he's absolutely amazing on grammar, while understanding that writing is meant to be read, not placed on a pedestal in a grammar museum.
Back to "learning" something from somebody: Teaching goes over best when it isn't dispensed with a hammer and an inferiority complex that leads one to act smugly superior -- especially to this degree.
Amy Alkon at August 20, 2011 7:47 AM
It's almost interesting enough to make me buy an offtopic copy of the LA Times.
(Just kidding! I would never do that.)
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at August 20, 2011 7:49 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2430105">comment from Cousin DaveMy vote would be with narcissistic personality disorder -- grandiosity, lack of empathy, etc.
Amy Alkon at August 20, 2011 7:50 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2430107">comment from Crid [CridComment at gmail]LA Times
Hot.
Amy Alkon at August 20, 2011 7:51 AM
The soloists with our city's symphony never dress like that. :-(
dee nile at August 20, 2011 8:29 AM
I think the second-chair fiddler in photo number three is going to go home and practice some deeply complicated arpeggios... Legato, if you catch my drift.
Notice also in photo one that the second row's lesser talents , sisters all, seem charmed... As if "It's about time...
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at August 20, 2011 8:36 AM
Spergy word pedants don't have the ear for rhythm that would tip them off that many of the "flaws" in a piece of creative writing – tautology, idiosyncratic grammar, split infinitives, etc – are deliberate
Primateus at August 20, 2011 9:00 AM
This photo conveys the effect Tina Turner was reaching for, underneath that wig, all those years ago.
(That chorus is crazy-gorgeous, right? I know! Can't understand why it didn't crack the Top Ten. This was the 80's... She was up against nothing stronger than Lauper & the Durans in the detumescent stages of their fame. Shoulda been a blowout.)
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at August 20, 2011 9:00 AM
I'd go with some authoritarianism too. After all, you broke rules which are necessary to keep order, lest Western Civilization fall.
Star Trek's opener must kill him. "To boldly go" has a much better alliteration than "to go boldly", which falls flat. Come to think of it, the world has been going to hell since '66.
Ariel at August 20, 2011 9:29 AM
Ah yes, Charlotte Moorman, the topless cellist (one NSFW photo at the link). A story about her is that, during a 1966 performance of Satie's "Vexations", Moorman did one of her stints at the piano topless. When asked why, she explained that it was an celebration of nudity, an expression of freedom of the performance in contrast to the strictness of the piece, and besides, John Cage had bet her $100 that she wouldn't do it.
Cousin Dave at August 20, 2011 9:32 AM
> John Cage had bet her $100 that she
> wouldn't do it.
Hah!
And his response, when she came to collect?
Stony silence.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at August 20, 2011 9:36 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2430469">comment from ArielStar Trek's opener must kill him. "To boldly go" has a much better alliteration than "to go boldly", which falls flat.
Absoboldlyfuckinglutely.
Somebody like this isn't a lover of words and sentences but a lover of rules and rigidity.
It's easy enough to memorize grammar rules. I know to use "who" instead of "that" when referring to a person, and I know that hens lay and people lie, and to say "She and I" not "Her and I..." But, I will split infinitives without the slightest concern if they read better split.
By the way, Super Dave knows his shit so well that he knows that what we call a "grocery store" should correctly be called a "groceries store." But, while he's a madman of grammar, he's a secure madman, so I learn a lot of interesting grammar points, but the essential thing is, every week he makes my column better because of his input.
For any professional writers (or near-professional writers like Dorian) out there who are contemplating self-publishing a book, I would recommend hiring Super Dave freelance -- but if you do not pay him on time and treat him well, I will have to come kill you, or at least hide a boom box in your walls that plays Julie Andrews on a loop at high volume.
Amy Alkon at August 20, 2011 9:43 AM
Oh my God. I used to get letters and phone calls from guys (and occasionally women) like this all the time when I was a staff editor. (I'm doing freelance work since I got laid off.)
The only thing worse than a reader like this is a writer like this. I used to have to spend an hour on the phone every week with one writer in particular. His first language was French, and he was very pleased with his grasp of English, but his copy was unreadable. Technically correct, usually, apart from his refusal to understand which/that, but unreadable.
But I have a soft spot in my heart for crazy old men.
MonicaP at August 20, 2011 9:52 AM
Readability is indeed the issue, dear doctor, and your prose is nigh unreadable. Amy, as long as you stay somewhere along the spectrum between texting gibberish (OMG u rite bd!) and hyper-correct grammar, your writing will be both readable and read.
I find that these arguments often occur between adherents to the Strunk and White book of nonsensical rules and those who prefer Joseph Williams' _Style: Toward Clarity and Grace_. The latter is a joy to read that actually helps one learn to write well, not just "correctly".
Josh at August 20, 2011 9:55 AM
Good writin', Merrie Melodies-style.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at August 20, 2011 9:59 AM
Is it clear and does it read smoothly?
Grammar has its place certainly, but there are so very many rules that it is virtually impossible to write clearly and smoothly to the ear, AND use perfect grammar at the same time.
Sometimes the rules have to be broken in order for something we've written, to flow properly.
The people who do not know this are:
Failed writers.
Teachers (Yes I said it, some know this, some do not, some are so fixated on grammatical rules that they'd sooner have a paragraph fall flat than break a rule, and some just do their job in grammar instruction to the letter, and forget that they're teaching kids to write so that those kids will write stuff that people actually read)
Professors that publish works that nobody reads.
This guy must blow a gasket when he reads Huckleberry Finn.
Miss Alkon, if I were you, I'd send him a pdf copy of Tom Sawyer, and invite him to correct the grammar and make the book better. You'll never hear from him again, because his head will explode before the second page ends.
Robert at August 20, 2011 10:39 AM
So, let me get this right. The guy who IS NOT a world famous author with scores of published works and nearly a dozen successful movies and televsion shows based on his work knows more about writting then the guy who is?
He sounds dumber then those mornic hikers
lujlp at August 20, 2011 11:18 AM
Amy Amy Amy. Tsk Tsk. Do you know the rule "Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience"
Or where you bored and just wanted someone to mess with?
John Paulson at August 20, 2011 11:27 AM
Thanks for the kind words about me. This guy gives all grammar nuts a bad name. The biggest problem that hasn't been mentioned yet is the fact that nobody is perfect, so when you start going off on someone for being wrong and you make points that are wrong, you look like a supreme idiot, which is the case with this guy. I feel bad for him.
Super Dave at August 20, 2011 12:28 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2431186">comment from John PaulsonAmy Amy Amy. Tsk Tsk. Do you know the rule "Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience"
Actually, the guy wrote me numerous times, and even instant messaged me (rude!). It's amazingly presumptuous to think you can just command a total stranger's time, and take to them chop-chop just because it's convenient for you. I have Instant Messaging open on my column account in case there's some suicidal teen out there. Period.
And I'm working on the Internet chapter of my next manners book, and pulled this quote from my late friend Cathy Seipp, which probably won't make it into the book. But, for a little treat, Cathy posted this on a blog item in 2006:
Amy Alkon at August 20, 2011 12:29 PM
"Stony silence."
Four minutes and 33 seconds' worth, to be precise.
Cousin Dave at August 20, 2011 12:41 PM
Lovely timing. I just saw this yesterday.
http://www.cracked.com/article_17522_6-new-personality-disorders-caused-by-internet_p2.html
See number 3.
LauraGr at August 20, 2011 1:12 PM
Doesn't he have the margins of library books to scribble in ... I mean, in which to scribble?
Kevin at August 20, 2011 4:16 PM
Hah - love that, Kevin.
Amy Alkon at August 20, 2011 4:22 PM
My mom was an old school English teacher and somewhat of a stickler for proper grammar. One thing that she had told me, and tried to convey in her teaching, is that there have actually been several significant revisions to formal English grammar over the past century or so. The general trend has been away from these sorts of prescriptive grammar and usage rule, and towards a model that emphasizes clarity and structural and referential coherence. Apparently the more prescriptive style is actually relatively new, arising in the early 20th century. It became popular in the public education community because it provided a consistent set of rules for students to follow. But it's not really high grammar. It's closer to a sort of grammar etiquette.
jenna at August 20, 2011 4:28 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2431631">comment from jennajenna, I've heard something akin to what you're talking about -- that, basically, there's a relaxing of rigid conformity to grammar rules to go with how people talk. I'm very relieved that AP style no longer has email as "e-mail." Irritating the old way. "Co-worker" also bugs me. Too much emphasis with it all separate'y like that. Blech.
I have the musical cool of an 8-year-old Martian, in terms of what I like, know, and listen to, but I have a very defined sense of rhythm in my writing. A line has to have the right sound, and hang right in terms of balance of the parts, or I'll hack away at it.
Amy Alkon at August 20, 2011 6:58 PM
Have to disagree on "co-worker"... the reason it isn't written as one word is to avoid a mis-scan when it's read. Google "cow orker".
Cousin Dave at August 20, 2011 9:34 PM
Gmail has an app for "canned response" which you may want to consider if you must answer every email, no matter how stupid.
KateC at August 20, 2011 9:54 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2431839">comment from KateCI sometimes pretend to have an automated response when the person would be super-satisfied by a reply to nastiness.
Amy Alkon at August 20, 2011 11:14 PM
I write ebooks and reports for a living. I also write weekly articles about antiques, collectibles and eBay.
When I first started I threw together simple instruction sets with the goal of teaching people how to do a specific task. I didn't spend much time proofreading the grammar, I was only interested in the steps.
After a few years, I started taking myself more seriously, and paid proofreaders to fix the reports up so they were more "Professional."
When I was trying to take a radio show into syndication I paid a woman 3 cents a word to go over my entire website and point out areas I should fix.
Oddly, my sales went down, and my refunds went up. I reverted the website back to the colloquial usage and my sales went back up.
The lesson here is I write for my audience.
Terry
PS I bought a used copy of one of Elmore Leonard's books a few years ago that some "idiot" had corrected with a pen. Nearly every page had comments and corrections. I assume the "idiot" had fun with the book, but I couldn't even read it.
Terry Gibbs at August 21, 2011 1:29 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2432880">comment from Terry GibbsThe lesson here is I write for my audience. Terry PS I bought a used copy of one of Elmore Leonard's books a few years ago that some "idiot" had corrected with a pen. Nearly every page had comments and corrections.
What an ass, the person who did this. Elmore is a master of dialogue, and writes to be read.
Amy Alkon at August 21, 2011 6:54 AM
Well, don't go on as if there should be no rules. Strunk & White still have a purpose, although the habitually offended will be again that someone would think their golden syllables are junk.
With no rules, you end up with this.
Radwaste at August 21, 2011 7:10 AM
I throw Strunk & White at the MBA idiots who couldn't write a sentence to save their lives. And they still ... don't ... get it.
If your off-the-cuff writing is engaging, many errors will be forgiven.
If your writing is painfully dull and circuitous, difficult to read, obvious, patronizing, or flat-out stupid, grammatical errors will leap off the page and claw at the eyes of your hapless readers.
And we will detest you for that unwarranted assault.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at August 21, 2011 1:38 PM
People like this guy drive me nuts. Email is generally a conversational medium. Do we all use perfect grammar when we speak? No! We get our points across in the quickest, most efficient way possible. So correcting an email is like interrupting people, while they're speaking, to correct them. He may know his grammar -- but he does not understand etiquette (which is a much more important skill set).
Oh, wait, did I say he knows his grammar? If he really had an eagle eye for grammar, he'd have noticed that Amy left out a comma in her response (after "(my nickname for him)"). Not that it matters, because the sentence still reads fine, and she was simply jotting off a response to him. My point is, if you're trying to demonstrate your grammatical superiority and then MISS an error, ur doin it rong!
sofar at August 21, 2011 3:45 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2433352">comment from sofarRight you are, sofar.
(Complementary comma included with price of sentence.)
Amy Alkon at August 21, 2011 3:47 PM
If only he could explain why "you've got to be" is wrong...
(See here; the "got to be" construction is absolutely accepted usage dating back to 1860.
It has proper construction.
It makes sense.
That he dislikes it or prefers another form is not the same as it being "wrong", even by a plausible level of prescriptivism.)
Sigivald at August 22, 2011 4:28 PM
My husband is an English teacher and admittedly a bit of a grammar Nazi, but he isn't rude about it like this guy. Occasionally he'll e-mail companies using incorrect grammar and/or spelling in ads and web sites, and he does it without the superior attitude. It's more along the lines of "Hi. I noticed what looks like a fixable error, and wanted to call it to your attention." If anything he runs the e-mail past me first to make sure his tone isn't too harsh. The rest of the time he just vents at me over advertisers' frequent confusing of "every day" with "everyday."
JonnyT at August 22, 2011 7:20 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/08/20/asshole_of_the_2.html#comment-2434944">comment from JonnyTJonnyT, a woman emailed me in a similar tone about errors in my book, and I spotted a few things that needed cleaning up in a close friend's book, and likewise emailed them to her.
Amy Alkon at August 22, 2011 7:22 PM
Look, when can agree that the darkness in this guy's heart isn't from Amy's grammar. But what do you want out of the world?
Expression?
Ok, here's a bad example. Take a look at the bottom line:
Well, given the subject matter, that's not a surprise. And I can sympathize with any publishing venture, corporate or personal, that doesn't want to have to host titty jokes while selling ads (or doing anything else they want to do). It's a free country. (And it's even a little freer after the FCC dropped the Fairness Doctrine on Monday.) People who want to find tits on the internet will find them, and no one should be compelled to pander.
But even so... Consider that wording: "Comments have veered off course".
Well, call me hypersensitive, but you have a "course" that you expect my participation to take, it's not really "comments" that I'll be bringing to you, is it? More like scripted performances.
Many people still don't understand the internet: Anybody can say pretty much anything they want.
Do you guys really have a problem with that?
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at August 23, 2011 12:12 AM
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