No Evidence He Sexually Harassed Her. He's Still Suspended. And Ostracized.
My friend Kate Coe, always a fantastic source for links, emailed me this one, about a Dartmouth freshman (a guy) accused of sexually harassing another freshman (a woman).
It seems completely clear that she made this up, yet he was still suspended -- for a year.
Beyond what was done to him -- just disgusting, the injustice -- he talks about the sort of people Dartmouth graduates and what it means for the rest of us. Gonzalo Lira writes:
The kind of men and women Dartmouth enrolls and graduates are the bright men and women who find places for themselves in the gears of America society. The men and women on the COS hearing in the fall of 1991 were no different.And they showed me how fundamentally corrupt the American leadership class really is.
There was no question that the allegations against me were lies--blatant lies. Demonstrable lies. The chair of the Committee On Standards, the Dean of the College, Lee Pelton, knew for a fact that this woman's allegations were bullshit: Her lie about the obscene e-mails was too blatant to be explained away, as was her constantly shifting story about what she claims had happened.
Forget a perfect world--in an intermittently just world, what the members of the COS should have done was dismiss the charges against me. And if they'd really tried for a truly just world, they should have suspended or even expelled the first year woman who had accused me, for having made up her lies and her baseless allegations.
"Committee On Standards" indeed--punishment for bearing false witness is a standard. And a crucial standard at that: No society can long survive, if it allows witnesses to openly get away with perjury. The COS should have made it clear that this particular standard would be upheld.
But it wasn't. They didn't. Because of the recent Thomas/Hill hearings, the political vibe on campus was such that, to have expelled or suspended or even admonished the first year woman for lying would have elicited cries of "Punishing the victim!", and so forth.
There would have been hell to pay, politically.
So there was no punishing this young woman for having lied so blatantly: It would have been too hard.
It was easier for the COS to suspend me. My "voice" was not so important as the "voices" of the various campus factions who would have howled in outrage--regardless of the facts.
And if my entire college experience was ruined by ostracism and open contempt? If this episode in my transcripts made it unlikely--not so say impossible--that I would ever be accepted at name graduate-school programs? If indeed, it made applying to my first jobs an iffy proposition?
If this episode ruined all my carefully nurtured hopes and ambitions for the life I had wanted to lead?...
There's much more to read at the above link.







I went through something similar. Unfortunately in my case it was not a silly little student board with a resulting ostracism. It was an actual criminal case that could have sent me to jail for up to a year.
Fortunately for me however, there was no political pressure to convict, I could afford a lawyer, the accuser refused to return to the state unless the prosecutor paid her to do so, and her "witness" was the person she previously accused of the same thing, and had a restraining out against her.
Despite the mountain of evidence that pointed to the charges being utterly without merit, I was still arrested and charged, and had a trial just a few days ago. The judge raised quite an eyebrow when my lawyer pointed out the woman's behavior and satements. And as she failed to appear, the charges were entirely dismissed.
Nonetheless the effect has been dramatic.
It cost me $1200, plus another $500 yet to pay for this entire odious matter to be entirely expunged, my government security clearance was threatened, and my career as a soldier by extension.
And as for my mindset, I will never help a woman in trouble again, unless she is as close as a sister. It was rendering aid that got me into that trouble in the first place.
Robert at September 29, 2011 4:53 AM
While I do sympathize with anyone falsely accused and subjected to punishment, Gonzalo Lira claims he rejected victimhood, his code for pussy, yet his entire piece cries victim, rightfully so. He claims he would not life a finger to help American society. Why? Because all Americans are responsible for the act of one girl? He chose not to pursue and action against her because it was pointless and yet names many other people he felt were responsible for his victimhood that he refuses to claim?
He does come off as smug, arrogant, and condescending. Claiming he doesn't care and saying to suck it off are hardly words that inspire people to take up his cause. He was failed years ago by a group of his peers. Good for him that he decided to make something of himself in spite of that. But the bitter is hard to take and oozes out of his every word.
I survived a sexual assault and an abusive marriage. I don't hold all men or society responsible. I don't hold the entire system because my cries for help went unheeded. I picked myself up and made something out of myself and also made an attempt to help others who found themselves in a similar situation. I don't tell the world to suck it because some bad things happen to me. I chose to fight it. One thing I refused to ever call myself was a victim. Gonzalo Lira is certainly not the first person to face injustice. There is plenty of it to go around and not just at Dartmouth or in America. He has a right to his anger, but maybe he should reconsider not lifting a finger to help with the betterment of American society. If not then isn't he just a bitter and angry man? If that's what he chooses then didn't that women and the COS win?
Kristen at September 29, 2011 5:01 AM
"I survived a sexual assault and an abusive marriage.I don't hold the entire system because my cries for help went unheeded".. you are a woman and you expect us to believe that your cries for help went unheeded? This claim seriously lacks credibility. You cannot hold the entire system responsible simply because the system bends over backwards to accomodate you in USA. If you say the system in USA did not listen to you, then there is a serious credibility issue. This is the US system you are talking about not the Saudi Arabian system.
Redrajesh at September 29, 2011 5:35 AM
Robert, just curious: surely your lawyer has discussed your options? Assuming you have evidence (beyond her behavior) that the charges were bogus, it may be possible to file a civil suit to recover your costs.
If you want to keep it simple, just file for the maximum allowed in small claims court, and do it yourself. If she fails to show up, you will get a default judgement. Collecting, of course, is the next problem...
Since you are military, you may also be able to get some free advice from the local JAG on your base. Probably you are already in contact with them - if not, it might be worth it.
a_random_guy at September 29, 2011 5:59 AM
The article about this guy's adventures at Dartmouth made for an entertaining read.
One wonders about the other side of the story. Why would this woman (nota bene: another insecure freshman) go after him? Few people are anti-social enough to do something like this, especially to a virtual stranger, unless they are very seriously pissed off. He says he refused her sexual advances; perhaps there is just a wee bit more to the story?
Now that he has named her on his blog, perhaps she will hear of this, and offer her side of the story...
a_random_guy at September 29, 2011 6:24 AM
You might want to note that this happened 20 years ago before people go off calling Dartmouth and all.
Astra at September 29, 2011 6:32 AM
Oh, I guess it's right there in the quote. My bad.
Astra at September 29, 2011 6:33 AM
At any rate, the reason I noted the date is because I was in college then and while this crap still happens now, that was the peak (or nadir) for Take Back the Night, No Means No, etc. sensitivity. As a result, I don't think this tells us anything about our elites that we didn't already know: namely, that people will generally take the path of least resistance and true bravery in the face of injustice is rare. I also don't think it's just our elites. Read some of the reader comments. They're all ready to go along with Lira until he criticizes the Iraq invasion and suddenly he's persona non grata a probably a liar to boot. People really do like to move in packs and it doesn't take much to turn packs into mobs.
Astra at September 29, 2011 6:42 AM
.. you are a woman and you expect us to believe that your cries for help went unheeded?
You are welcome to believe whatever you like. Short of showing you court documents proving my claims, I'm not sure what would convince you. You've decided that based on my gender I would automatically get help and therefore my claims are not credible. What I experienced is besides the point. Injustice happens everywhere, every single day. We all have choices to make in how we handle it. I chose to try to make a positive impact based on what I survived rather than be bitter and blame all the men of the world. After all, I have brothers and sons and know all men are not evil just as I don't think every person who has ever attended Dartmouth is at fault for what happened to Gonzalo.
Gonzalo has every right to be upset and angry. But again, he chooses to remain bitter and think his arrogance is justified and that all Americans and all of the alumni of Dartmouth are responsible when they're not. And again, be part of the change then, not part of bitching about what happened to you and how unfair it was and then claim you won't call yourself a victim because that is for pussies.
Kristen at September 29, 2011 6:45 AM
I don't doubt that Gonzalo Lira was railroaded, but I also suspect that his personality had a lot to do with enabling this, and justifying it to the board. He comes off as a complete ass, and total egomaniac. So he probably played right into negative stereotypes about latin men.
I'd gone to school in the 90's and remember the hysteria that pervaded campuses. It was an ugly time and caused me to loose a lot of respect for women. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on the women of my generation (x) to see how this period affected their relationships and perceptions of men. For example, something that I've noticed is that women of my generation can't seem to discuss men in a positive light. It's always negative. If someone says something positive they feel compelled to introduce something negative. It almost seems like a reflexive trait, like something they've been conditioned to.
noam at September 29, 2011 7:10 AM
Kristen, don't mind Redrajesh, his comments are almost always misogynistic. Plenty of the men who comment on this blog manage to point out that some women are harpies, but he generally manages to suggest ALL women are harpies.
Angie at September 29, 2011 7:13 AM
"Her lie about the obscene e-mails was too blatant to be explained away"
I'm confused. Why is he referring to e-mail in 1991?
Marina at September 29, 2011 7:16 AM
Angie, Redrajesh's comment was meant to diminish my experience. I'm a woman therefore not credible because in his view no woman has ever suffered at the hands of a man who has gone unpunished. It's a ridiculous assertion, the same as a woman claiming all men are rapists because she was raped by one. I hate sweeping generalizations for that reason.
Noam makes a good point about Gonzalo's arrogance and how he makes it hard to be sympathetic to his plight, especially to his peers. I did wonder if his ostracism had more to do with his arrogance and egomania more than the fact that anyone thought he was guilty of the accusations. It still doesn't make what the woman did right, but it does make me wonder.
Kristen at September 29, 2011 7:31 AM
Lira's story has some contradictions; enough to convince me that he's not being totally honest about what happened. In the end, I simply don't trust his version of events.
For example, he claims the events simply could not physically have happened, but then admits he was alone in the room with her and suggests he did have sex with her once, but then turned her down.
I suspect that the student counsel didn't believe either one, but did go the politically correct route and railroaded him.
Joe at September 29, 2011 7:58 AM
Noam,
I am a Gen X woman and I can tell you that I've spent most of my life scared of men, and not because I was assaulted or anything dramatic like that. Mostly it was how I was raised - a little too sheltered, and way too much scaremongering about men in general. It's taken me a long time to feel that most men are okay, that they aren't all out to take advantage of me.
My understanding of cultural change is that it tends to move more like a pendulum, rather than along a straight line. We tend to swing to extremes but eventually correct that and find a more reasonable middle ground. I think any fear inculcated in young women in the 80s ultimately helped teach them emotional and financial independence. The challenge now is somehow taking that independent spirit and still somehow successfully forge a loving and respectful partnership. It's a lot more difficult than when the gender roles are not flexible, but ultimately more rewarding - for both parties.
Angel at September 29, 2011 8:07 AM
@Marina: campus email existed in 1991, though I don't remember using it with any regularity until I entered grad school in 1993. Husband says he started using email in 1987.
Astra at September 29, 2011 8:47 AM
"I think any fear inculcated in young women in the 80s ultimately helped teach them emotional and financial independence."
My experience is that they may have indeed been taught those things but they sure as heckfire don't follow teachings. Namely, either some guy needs to sweep in and deal with her baggage for her or nanny government does.
Sio at September 29, 2011 8:51 AM
"I'm confused. Why is he referring to e-mail in 1991?"
How old are you? I had my first email address in 1982. AOL and Compuserve had millions of users in 1991, and most University's had their own email servers for students at that time.
Of course now-a-days they would be talking about text messages or Facebook and Twitter postings.
AllenS at September 29, 2011 8:54 AM
Noam... get better female friends. I also went to school in the 90s (college class of '99) at probably the most uber-feminist school in the country, and yet most of my classmates I'm in touch with are happily married to men and have nothing bad to say about men. The others are wishing they were happily married to men, or happily married to other women.
If the women you hang out with are bashing men all the time, it probably has more to do with bad relationships and bad relationship choices, and less to do with growing up in the 90s.
NicoleK at September 29, 2011 9:03 AM
I'm confused. Why is he referring to e-mail in 1991?
Some of us had email in the mid-1980s. The concept can be found going back into the 1960s, and has been codified and improved along the way.
I R A Darth Aggie at September 29, 2011 9:18 AM
"I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on the women of my generation (x) to see how this period affected their relationships and perceptions of men."
Were your parents Boomers or Silent Generation?
Just a rhetorical question. I always put forward the notion that besides what generation one happens to be, that of one's parents also seems to be a big factor in what kind of adult one becomes.
lsomber at September 29, 2011 9:52 AM
I really wanted to sympathize with this man, but he seems like such a pompous asshole I just want to smack him instead.
What happened to this guy was bad. Bad luck, bad timing, bad judgement on everybody's part, bad karma, whatever. Bad. But it did not end his life.
He says:
"I make no bones about who and what I am: I am of the elite. The best and the brightest? You’re looking at him. Since I was a toddler, and without exception, I’ve always been in the top tenth of the top percentile—but not just brains, I’ve got the balls and the drive to achieve great things. I have already achieved great things—and I will no doubt achieve even greater things, in the future. Fact is, I am working on those great things now. And if that sounds monstrously arrogant—which it does—well . . . suck on it."
Still couldn't keep it in yer pants though, couldja?
"We’d hooked up, of course, during Orientation Week. But once in her dorm-room (on a different night altogether from the night of my alleged assault), I’d given her some fake-noble reasons as to why we shouldn’t sleep together that night."
You mean like, lies?
"I hadn’t liked her. I hadn’t wanted to complicate my life by bedding her."
How'd that work out for you, dude?
The peers who judged him were young idiots, just like he was, but he seems to have expected a lot more of them then he did of himself.
He also says he was taught not to pick at scabs, but he's gotten a lot of mileage from this one!
And what has he taken from all this? America is corrupt, and doesn't deserve anything from him. So there.
(Well, yeah, our government is corrupt. Show me the government that isn't. Please.)
He writes that he had wanted to help America become a better nation, before this incident occurred. But afterward, after getting personal experience in areas where America really could use some help, he has washed his hands of the whole idea and is content to bitch about it from a distance.
Pricklypear at September 29, 2011 10:08 AM
Saying that this guy's punishment was due to his personality/attitude is just as bad as saying a rape victim was asking for it because of her personality.
Saying he earned his punishment by being an asshole is just like saying a woman "asked for it" by being flirtatious.
Saying he should have kept it in his pants is just like saying that, because a woman consented to sex once in the past, she can never fairly accuse someone of rape in the future.
I know we don't know her side of the story. But, if you do believe HIS side, it's inappropriate to say that he shares some of the blame. There's nothing in his story that indicates he did anything wrong. He might very well have ... but all we've got is his account, and I didn't see anything wrong in his behavior as he describes it.
sofar at September 29, 2011 10:48 AM
"I don't hold the entire system because my cries for help went unheeded."
Another poster raised an eyebrow at this, and was maligned for being a bit to impolitic. But the accusation raised my eyerbow a bit too? I found myself wondering which police departments and women's shelters did not return your phone calls or refused to speak with you upon your visit?
Because if you went to professionals with credible allegations, and they did nothing to assist you, it seems to me that you should try and bring that professional failing to responsible people's attention.
Spartee at September 29, 2011 10:55 AM
@Nicole my friends are fine. And I'm not saying that women my age persistently bash men, but that many have a fundamentally negative view of men.
And sorry, but your claims seem improbable - none of the women you know from your uber feminist school have anything bad to say about men. Really? Nothing! That's amazing because every woman probably has something that they don't like about men. I think that you're exaggerating a bit to make your point.
I don't think that I'm so off in my observations because I've spoken to younger women, in their twenties and early thirties who have told me that women my age are notorious for these attitudes. It's something that they are sensitive to because they don't want to end up the same way.
noam at September 29, 2011 11:54 AM
I'm intrigued by the people saying that they went to college around the same time, and noticed the same culture.
I'm a little younger, went to college between 1998-2002, so about 10 years later then this guy. I attended a small state U in the mid-south. As far as I could tell or can remember, relationships between men and women were pretty much great. It's possible it was just the groups I traveled in (I was in a fairly close-knit honors society, so we may have been more responsible than the students at large), but in general, men and women were friends, lovers, helped each other out, and got along great. Of course, there were irresponsible hook-ups, but I never saw anyone make false accusations, make real accusations, make gross generalizations, take back the night, make horrifically sexist statements, harass, etc.
Was it just my school, or did things change? I wonder.
Lyssa at September 29, 2011 12:23 PM
Sexual abuse is one of those accusations where you don't just need a lack of evidence, you need a vindication. You need to have video of the woman plotting with her friend to defraud you, and even THEN some people will surmise it was Photoshopped.
It's a popular mantra nowadays- "Not Guilty does not mean 'Innocent'." If you think person X did thing Y, the acquittal only means they "got away with it".
Vinnie Bartilucci at September 29, 2011 12:37 PM
The problem is, Sofar, I didn't say anything about him deserving any punishment. I said, more or less, that I can't feel sympathy for him.
I read his article and reacted to it. That's my reaction. My sense of moral outrage at what happened to him has been dulled by his own words.
And, by the way, my first sexual encounter was being raped at fourteen. So rape comparisons don't impress me a whole lot. Perspective is everything.
Pricklypear at September 29, 2011 12:53 PM
"But the accusation raised my eyerbow a bit too? I found myself wondering which police departments and women's shelters did not return your phone calls or refused to speak with you upon your visit?"
Well Spartee,first let me say that a women's shelter is not the authorities or part of the justice system. As far as the police precincts and courts go, I went to more than one precinct in Nassau, Suffolk, and Queens as well as family court in Westbury, NY. I would never name names in a forum such as this because maintaining the safety of my children and me is more important than proving to you that what I say happened is true.
I don't blame you for not believing what I say. Does anyone really want to believe that the authorities do not protect us in the face of wrongdoing? I certainly didn't want to believe it and hoped my husband's taunts of the cops not being willing to help me because he was a cop would turn out to be false. Unfortunately he was right and I was wrong and standing in a precinct begging the police to help only to be refused is not something I'd wish on anyone. Unfortunately there are people who are in worse situations that I ever was and they often are ignored or turned away for different reasons. Let's not forget how many times the cops visited OJ's house and left with autographs instead of him in handcuffs. But I'm sure you can explain that away too.
Either way, my point wasn't so much about what happened to me as much as that I don't view all men as evil because of the evil perpetrated by my ex. Gonzalo was wronged and him being an arrogant asshole doesn't excuse it. It just makes it hard to sympathize with him. It also is not the fault of every American and Dartmouth alum.
Kristen at September 29, 2011 1:39 PM
I went to a medium-sized state university in Texas from 1999-2003, and I, too, recall the relationships between the men and women as being pretty normal. It was a party school, but it was NOT liberal... so not liberal, in fact, that the old hippies couldn't even gather enough people to have a decent protest when we were about to invade Afghanistan after 9/11. Oh, and now they've got the student group offering the "white-male only" scholarship.
Now, I DO recall posters stating that "getting her drunk isn't getting her consent," but no Wymyn or Take Back the Night, or any of that crap.
And I have to agree with Pricklypear: The guy didn't deserve to have those awful things happen to him, but with that attitude... Well, it couldn't have happened to a nicer person.
ahw at September 29, 2011 2:15 PM
@Pricklypear
I was in no way trying to diminish what rape victims go through by drawing comparisons. But people pointing out what he could have done differently all those years ago becomes disturbingly close to the "well, she shouldn't have gotten drunk at the party" arguments.
Admittedly, I may have misread your reaction -- to me, it came across in a "too-bad-so-sad" tone. Thanks for explaining -- and, clearly, you have personal experience in what it means to overcome something truly awful and move on.
Likewise, I interpreted HIS tone differently. A lot of people up-thread read it as him being an asshole. I read it as him being angry. Which I would be, too.
Yeah, his essay was a bit tl;dr. But not everyone is a lemons-into-lemonade person.
sofar at September 29, 2011 3:19 PM
I get his anger, sofar. But he's been holding on to it for two decades, even after he had the resources to do something about it. What he's apparently decided to do is settle for bad-mouthing the entire country.
Kind of a "Screw you guys, I'm going home" thing. He did go back to Dartmouth, if I read it right, and he has been a success. He is now holding his anger tightly to him. Maybe he needs it.
I can't help comparing him to our resident Goddess. When someone treats her badly, she does something about it. (I recommend the tale of the car thief to everyone I know.)
He will probably never get an apology from this woman, or from Dartmouth. Or maybe he will, I don't know. I don't even know if he's going after one. He does deserve some recognition of the wrong that was done to him.
That being said, he's still an asshole.
Pricklypear at September 29, 2011 5:05 PM
"Angie, Redrajesh's comment was meant to diminish my experience. I'm a woman therefore not credible because in his view no woman has ever suffered at the hands of a man who has gone unpunished."
You made this up.
In American jurisprudence, there is a bias in favor of women, and there are dozens of agencies "on your side" if you use here, near Augusta, GA as an example - but if you are an adult male, tough luck, there's the door. Amy's blogged about this too.
It's just that absent details, given the large number of agencies today whith charters to help women, it's amazing that you couldn't find one.
And the contrast with the Saudis, while dramatic, is apt. Where in the USA is it taught that men should not value and defend women?
Radwaste at September 29, 2011 6:14 PM
"Gonzalo Lira claims he rejected victimhood, his code for pussy, yet his entire piece cries victim, rightfully so. "
I get where you're coming from, and yes, there are a lot of contradictions in his words concerning his attitude about it today. Basically, he claims to be over it, yet you can feel the anger dripping from the screen.
"He chose not to pursue and action against her because it was pointless and yet names many other people he felt were responsible for his victimhood that he refuses to claim?"
That part confuses me too. If he really believes that this person destroyed his life, then why not name names and let the chips fall where they may? If the girl in question is the type of person that she appears to be from his story, she's probably done the same thing to a lot of other people since then. Otherwise, then maybe the story could be written as a simple cautionary tale, but from the amount of passion in evidence, I don't think that was the intent. On the other hand, the answer to that question may be:
"If that's what he chooses then didn't that women and the COS win?"
Well, that may be because they did win, and at this point there is absolutely nothing he can do that will either fix it or compensate him for what he lost. The people who did this to him are in fact everything that he accuses them of being. Some actions and decisions are both evil and irreversible. A person who is murdered can't be un-murdered no matter what society does to the murderer.
"He has a right to his anger, but maybe he should reconsider not lifting a finger to help with the betterment of American society. If not then isn't he just a bitter and angry man? "
Well yeah, he is, judging from the free-form rant that follows the paragraph where he accuses America's ruling elite of moral cowardice. (He really should have stopped at that point...) But that's okay. He as much as admits that he's too broken to be of any help. Allow him to enjoy his retirement from caring, far away from the rest of us. We'll get on with the future.
Cousin Dave at September 29, 2011 6:44 PM
"You made this up."
Rad, I said that I found an agency that helped me. It was a local Domestic Violence group, not the authorities. I wish I were making it up but the truth is I had proof he was abusing our kids and a judge finally agreed to grant a restraining order but was not going to take away his visitation. I pleaded with the judge and asked him how he was keeping my kids safe if he was still allowing them to go to a home they were being abused in. And just for the record, in that case I was charged with inadequate guardianship for allowing my children to go to an abusive home despite a court order making me send them. Thankfully I ended up getting the order and removing his visitation but that only began an 8 month long court battle. The CPS reports and assessment from the Law Guardian described a sociopath and still, he was eventually allowed visitation again in increments despite never completing the court mandated counseling. His parental rights were constantly held up as being of supreme importance including over the safety of me and my children. I swore that I would run with my kids before ever going through that system again. It sounds completely unbelievable and I could tell you things that would make you shake your head in disgust. What is scary to me is that there are worse cases out there than mine.
Kristen at September 29, 2011 7:01 PM
I find the reader antipathy towards Lira puzzling.
His story is convincing and I see nothing wrong in his self-described romantic behavior.
His anger and bitterness are a rhetorical necessity for this story....he chose to write a piece in this style. Taking exception to this sort of thing is like being angry at Hamlet because "its so sad!"...and similarly suggests a lack of sophistication on the part of the reader.
In any case, often blog posts are overly personal or rambling and one must exert some discipline to extract the facts alone. And on a factual level I find him VERY sympathetic.
TheRealPeter at September 29, 2011 9:16 PM
I went to undergrad in the early nineties and I remember quite vividly the seismic shift in policies and attitudes on campus that accompanied the anita hill/clarence thomas hearings. So I certainly can agree with him there.
Of course I went to the claremont colleges, which culturally and demographically are similar to dartmouth. I easily believe that a large state school might have resisted the whole hill/thomas overreaction somewhat better.
TheRealPeter at September 29, 2011 9:22 PM
I went to college in the Northeast in the late 80s and early 90s. By about 1992, there was mandatory sexual harassment and sexual abuse training for all male freshmen and "awareness" campaigns, and all that good shit.
I got out before the shit hit the fan and the feminazis started with their booths on orientation day listing all the males on campus as potential rapists.
But I'd already had false claims of sexual harassment used against me by dickhead managers and the idiot twats that enabled them.
Somewhere along the line, I think men just decided to say "fuck it" rather than continue to fight the tide.
brian at September 29, 2011 9:38 PM
I went to undergrad in the 90s at a smallish private college in the West. We had a lot of anti-male crap. I think it wanted to be another Antioch (I think it was) with everything only with permission and sex only with a written contract. I have noticed that only a small percentage of people I know from there married a fellow student from there....like 1 or 2%.
I have also found that a lot of women of my generation have the presumption that a man is bad until proven otherwise.
I certainly wondered about Kristen's story until I noticed the accused was a cop.
The Former Banker at September 30, 2011 12:56 AM
I could file a suit random guy, but the problem is two fold:
First, the woman is a leech. She as near as I can tell, never had any money of her own, and probably never will. She mooches off of the good will of others. I cannot get blood from a turnip.
Second: I would have to have her served, and I do not know where she is, and if I found her, I would have to file the suit there.
I tried the JAG route, and they gave me good advice, but I ended up having to acquire a lawyer as they were not permitted to represent me themselves.
-----------------------
And Kristen, while it may be "possible" that your statement is accurate, I hate to say it, but the idea that a woman in America could not get help just doesn't have credibility. There are umpteen thousand different organizations that specialize in that, and have been for a great many years. Moreover, cases like Duke & Hofstra, and my own personal experience with a ludicrous accusation, tell me that if anything the legal system is TOO eager to prosecute.
Then I read that your husband was a cop. That gives credibility a thousand times over.
I've mentioned before, as has Amy, and others too, that the tendency of the legal and law enforcement system is to protect its own. Who watches the watchers sort of thing.
Were it up to me, there would be a separate legal system existing solely to prosecute police, judges, and lawyers and made up of people who were never in that little brotherhood.
Robert at September 30, 2011 1:25 AM
For Robert and those who doubt my story until knowing my ex is a cop.....You all keep saying there are various agencies that will help and there are, but distinguish the difference between going to a police precinct to have the law upheld and going to a woman's shelter or other Domestic Violence group.
Going before a judge asking for a restraining order is a very intimidating process for someone who is trying to escape an abusive controlling relationship. Before you even see a judge you have to do an intake with a court worker who is overwhelmed and depending on his mood will decide whether or not what you tell him is worthy of an appearance. Then there's the part where if you file a violation of something you need to bring 8 copies of the original order or divorce decree as well as 8 copies of the new complaint plus the original, all notarized and if you don't have that, you get sent away. It sounds like small potatoes to many but when you're struggling copying a 50 page document each time there is a problem adds up, and the courthouse has no photocopy machine or notary so if you don't know what you're doing the first time you go, you get sent away. If you make a mistake with something, you get sent away. Filing the orders is extremely frustrating, overwhelming, intimidating, and emotionally draining.
From personal experience I can tell you that there is nothing like leaving an abusive spouse to eat up all of your vacation and sick time at work. Court takes time and bosses love when employees need to go back to court regularly because the other party has a right to constantly adjourn the case, after sitting around a court house all day waiting to see a judge only to decide there is some key evidence or testimony he needs and therefore needs an adjournment.
I was told by a Law Clerk during one court case that my husband's threats to kill me were covered under free speech and that it was just a heated argument. I was told by a Law Guardian that the abuse my children and I suffered was some of the worst he's seen but he had to remain mindful of his parental rights and make sure they remained intact.
The vagueness in providing details is only again to protect my safety, but the details are at times chilling and other times simply a nuisance. But an abuser loves being a nuisance because an abuser is all about being in control and wasting sick days and vacation time can lead to job loss and that is a bonus for an abuser. My ex told me I would never make it on my own and I made a promise to myself that not only would I make it, but that I'd never end up on welfare and my kids would all have a great education. So far, I've kept my promise to myself. I was also very lucky that the man who was my boss was an extremely supportive person who understood the cycle of abuse and did everything he could to help me. He knew my husband was trying very hard to interfere with my ability to get to work on time or even at all.
I'm not sure why people are so quick to discount a story like mine. Maybe people don't want to believe the worst but it surprises me that so many people who want to think the worst about our justice system or government always dispute a story like mine. Feminazi gets thrown around like all women are radical feminists, but if you say a man abused a woman, it must not be true, it must be the feminzazis hard at work again painting all men out to be evil creatures. For the record, I'm not a feminazi nor do I think men are evil creatures.
I know I mentioned the OJ Simpson case and nobody has responded to that. How many times did cops go to that house and leave without making an arrest? The left with autographs. They were responding to a crime and left with the criminal's autograph. In the month between the death of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson and OJ's arrest, OJ was called a hero in the media over 4 million times all because he could run a football. Did anyone here watch the Comedy Central Roast of Charlie Sheen and wonder why a group of comedians and entertainers would think it was hysterical to make jokes about a woman cowering in the corner in fear of Charlie? He held a knife to his wife's throat and left marks. Did he go to jail? He had a violent episode against another woman with two weeks left on his probation. Did he go to jail? Did he even get fired from his job for the violence? No. He got fired for badmouthing his producer. Is OJ in jail for abuse or murder? No. He's in jail for stealing his stuff back. So please explain to me how I lack credibility when you see it in the news regularly. If Charlie Sheen's wife or Nicole Simpson commented on this blog, you'd tell them that they lack credibility.
Kristen at September 30, 2011 4:33 AM
"I wish I were making it up..."
Focus. What was made up was what Redrajesh's comment meant.
Sorry about the ordeal.
Radwaste at September 30, 2011 5:10 AM
noam I recognize what you're describing, but I think that this is a cultural trait more so than generational. The same women who'd chosen to attend the types of institutions that promoted the rape culture hysteria are the ones who still hang on to those attitudes. That's been my experience at least. I don't encounter a noticeably negative attitude towards men among women generally. It's women who are culturally 'Progressive' that tend to think this way, and they can be very chauvinistic.
But I do think that it's interesting that that whole period has been swept under the rug. No one wants to talk about it. Though you can bet that if a movement of culturally conservative women had been marching around campuses with bullhorns threatening men and burning them in effigy in a pagan bonfire, that someone would have done a documentary on it and there'd be pieces on NPR, CNN, etc..
KarlP at September 30, 2011 7:03 AM
I didn't know anything about Thomas until the controversy with Anita Hill. I read about her and the things she said, I listened, and I didn't believe her.
I've felt like some kind of traitor to my sex since the first time I said I didn't want a husband or babies, but I found out that was nothing compared to saying I didn't believe Anita Hill.
No one wanted to ask why I didn't believe her, just expressing it was enough. The reaction was instant and scary, like adding the wrong chemicals together.
I have three sisters. My husband has six! No way I'm ever talking about that topic again. Life's too short as it is.
Pricklypear at September 30, 2011 7:28 AM
Re: "I went to undergrad in the early nineties and I remember quite vividly the seismic shift in policies and attitudes on campus that accompanied the anita hill/clarence thomas hearings. So I certainly can agree with him there."
I concur with RealPeter on the environment at the time. The previous year (1990), when my marriage broke up, was tumultuous for me. I was married with 2 little kids. Domestic violence was something that was in the news, that I heard about but didn't pay a lot of attention to because the kids kept me so preoccupied.
I got fed up with my ex and moved out temporarily one night. 5 days later when I came back to see the kids (a lawyer had told me I still had access to the home and kids), the ex hit with a DV charge; I spent 2 days in the pokey prior to arraignment, and the next month the charge was dropped. I was stunned & embittered by everything that happened.
In the late '80s/early '90s, there's no question that domestic violence and sexual harassment were problems that had been around forever which were starting to be addressed by the law. However, the legal system on these issues, particularly domestic violence, has more holes than Swiss cheese.
I think GL's account is credible, but don't go nearly as far as he does to indict the country's leaders. I'm not surprised that college students age 22 & younger would fail to do anything in his case, given the atmosphere of the times and prevalant groupthink, however, the dean's conduct sounds inexcusable to me.
On personal level, men who harass or sexually assault women make life harder for the majority who don't do those things. And women like the person GL identified who make bogus accusations do a lot to make men wary of women. These actions have a very detrimental effect on relations between the sexes. The real bitches out there make men very wary about committing. Word about the horror stories gets around. In the long run, I think the malicious persons out there get found out and pay a price. But it usually takes a good long while.
mjh at September 30, 2011 9:08 AM
Whether or not you believed Anita Hill, her charges didn't rise to the level of harassment. That's why Thomas wasn't denied the appointment. Even if everything that she said was true, his behavior would have been inappropriate but not harassing or degrading to women. She was just a pawn for the Left.
doppler at September 30, 2011 9:10 AM
Kristen wrote: "I'm not sure why people are so quick to discount a story like mine... Feminazi gets thrown around like all women are radical feminists... I know I mentioned the OJ Simpson case and nobody has responded to that. How many times did cops go to that house and leave without making an arrest?"
Your account sounds very credible to me. You say you ex is a cop, that explains a lot of your problems. Another is that the justice system can be such a bitch for anyone to deal with. A 3rd factor is probably some blowback from the era when cops were hauling in anyone accused of domestic violence, etc. like it was nothing. Probably a lot of prosecutors got tired of losing so many cases and raised the bar.
The women who make these false and inflated allegations are among your worst enemies, and there are lots of them. Available resources (cops, prosecutors) that should be used against the offenders are being strained by those who misuse the system.
mjh at September 30, 2011 6:47 PM
Here's someone who seems to agree with what I'm commenting on, though I think that she's a little heavy handed in her criticism - http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Shrews-Katrina-Fernandez-09-30-2011.html
noam at October 1, 2011 7:33 AM
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