It's not "natural" in the scheme of history, but I don't know many parents who can or want to go to bed at 7 or 8pm. My twins share a room, and protest bedtime just as much as kids with no roommate. I've had several of mine in my bed the last few nights. I'm tired of getting kicked in the face periodically throughout the night.

The milf and I have been co-sleeping with our one year old for over a year, and I couldn’t imagine trying the alternative. Nobody has been kicked yet, but I assume that if and when kicking becomes a problem we can move him to a separate bed in our bedroom.
Peter Gray’s observation that kids protest bedtime because they’re afraid of being alone in the dark seems spot-on and deeply chilling. Although sometimes it’s hard to believe, kids are programmed to stay alive, and being alone in the dark probably isn’t in the play book.
Meanwhile, some our sweetest moments as a family together so far have been in our bed, especially in the morning when he wakes up and happily begins his daily routine of trying to climb the headboard. When he wakes up in the middle of the night, milfy is right there with a warm boob to feed him, and wakes up less than on a trip to the bathroom. If you’re wondering about “us time,” we get plenty of that when he’s fast asleep on the other side of the king bed.
We assume that at some point it will no longer make sense to have him sleep with us. We don’t know when it will happen or what the straw will be – kicking , us time complications, etc. – but whatever it is we do not look forward to that day.
And regarding Amy’s numbers on SIDDS, I have a sad story to tell. I’m a member of the local volunteer fire department, and we got a call one recent morning about a child who was “unresponsive.” Her mom had found her that way in the morning, in her crib, in her room by herself. When we got there it was obvious that she wasn’t just unresponsive, she was cold and stiff. I don’t know what the official cause of death was (SIDDS is just medical-ease for “we have no clue why the baby died in the night”) but I know that if Louie ever stops breathing in the night, the ambulance will be called MUCH sooner.

"n all other cultures, infants and young children sleep in the same room and usually in the same bed with one or more adult caregivers, and bedtime protest is non-existent."

Maybe 75 years ago. I think this research is very dated, as almost all but the most remote and poorest places are "Westernized" to some degree. Maybe learning to face your childhood fears is a way towards self-reliance, self-sufficiency and a a way out of traditional tribal poverty.

I'm on the other side. My son never protests, except for when it's light outside (summertime). He sleeps in his own room, with no siblings or adults. When with others (babysitters or godparents), he puts himself to bed, because we have a ritual that puts him to bed at 8 p.m. So, he rarely has a desire to stay up late. He's exhausted by 9 p.m. Maybe he's a rare child, but my husband and I also rarely protested back when we were children.

I think humans in general are pretty adaptable, and children and adults will sleep well when they feel safe, and warm.

My husband was deployed to Baghdad in early 2008 when things were pretty dicy over there and for the first six months, I hardly slept at all. Worry about him and being alone in the house was enough to make me edgy enough that my body said, "stay awake"
He wasn't sleeping well either but I think the air raid sirens going off during the mortal attacks were the problem there. :)

While it is natural to fear going to bed alone in the dark when you are a child, those fears can be mitigated and overcome. Does anyone else remember night lights? They were ubiquitous when I was a kid.
Pretty much up until the late 20th century it was expensive and a lot of work to provide artificial lighting, especially if it was not also needed for heat.
People went to bed when it was dark, and they rose at dawn, and subsequently slept a lot more in the winter because there was nothing else to do.
So, in a sense, now when we put the kids to bed early so they can get enough sleep before the mandated work and school schedule, dictated by our modern environment,we are attempting to accommodate their natural sleep schedule.

It is the adults that are out of wack, and mostly sleep deprived because they are the ones, who are staying up too late and/or getting up too early.

Kate's scenario seems crazy optimistic about the proud march of human character into a brighter dawn.

With no kids, I have no strong energy about bedtime. I remember my own anger at being sent to sleep mostly as a control thing, much like haircut fussiness a couple years later.

My favorite SIDSy article is one of the grimmest on the hard drive... Happy Thursday, Ever'body!

If you have four kids, should they all sleep with Mom and Dad? Until when? Should Mom and Dad go to bed at 7:30? If not, what difference does it make if they're in Mom and Dad's bed, if Mom and Dad don't join them until hours after they are asleep?

When do Mom and Dad have sex and have alone time? What happens to their marriage if they don't?

What about bad sleepers? I'm one of them. Kids can be hell to sleep with. I've shared a bed with my nieces on a couple of family trips and I didn't catch a wink. The kicking in the face thing Momof4 mentions was a definite issue. Sleep deprived parents who have little sex with their spouses for years on end -- sounds like a recipe for marital strife, extramarital affairs, and divorce.

Many kids go to bed alone without issues. My brother and I sometimes contested our bedtime when we were little, but it wasn't because we were afraid to go to bed -- we just wanted to stay up and have fun. My six year old niece fought like a dragon to have her own room instead of sharing with her little sister. Not one of my small nieces and nephews (all age 8 and under) is afraid to sleep alone. Perhaps we're all evolutionary freaks in my family?

True, it does seem like more kids are having more issues with going to bed these days than they used to. But IMO that's because their parents cave in on every issue until the kids rule the roost.

At what point are the kids supposed to outgrow their evolutionary fear of being alone in the dark? Wouldn't most of us have been tasty snacks back in caveman days when we were helpless and asleep?

My kid sleeps with us. She'll be two next month. She's made it through about half the night in her own bed in her own room a few times, but when she wakes up by herself she's pretty terrified (and there's plenty of light in there.) Of course, to get her to sleep in her own room, we have to lay down with her until she's alseep (which would also explain why it's so scary for her her wake up alone: we've disappeared!) I'm trying to find a good stuffed animal she can cuddle that will help her feel safer and help her transition out of our room. She has a new doll that she's especially fond of that might be "the one." I guess the next step would be moving her and the doll to a pallet on the floor of our room (or some similiar setup.) She's never really protested bedtime, but I guess that's because she gets to sleep with us. I can always get back up once she's alsleep.

I'm ready to have kid-free bed. It's amazing how such a little person can be such a bedhog. She tends to either end up horizontal (like the bar in an H) between us, or gravitate so closely toward me that I end up on the very edge of the bed.

Our friends from China have two little girls- one is about 4, the other is the same age as our daughter. When I was pregnant, and we were casually discussing sleeping arrangements, the husband, without any hesitation, said, "Oh, she sleeps with you." So, I guess for them, it's not a "parenting style" debate- Babies sleep with their parents, and that's the way it is. (Or, more specifically, babies sleep with their mothers, and if Dad's getting kicked, he can take over the guest room/snooze on the couch/whatever.) There are plenty of other rooms (and times) that Husband and I can sneak off to for havin' relations.

Side note: My kid's in full-time childcare, and naptime there isn't a stuggle. For whatever reason, when all the little ones lay down for a nap at the same time, they just go to sleep. Maybe it's because everyone else is doing it; maybe it's because they feel safe in the group; maybe it's because there's daylight coming in. I dunno.

> At what point are the kids supposed to outgrow
> their evolutionary fear of being alone in the
> dark?

Again, no real energy about this, but parents who force other deadlines in growth (dentition, potty training, etc.) aren't usually admired.

_______________


Offtopic.

Children complain about going to bed for one simple reason - they're afraid they're going to miss something.

http://www.psywww.com/intropsych/ch05_conditioning/intermittent_reinforcement.html

"True, it does seem like more kids are having more issues with going to bed these days than they used to. But IMO that's because their parents cave in on every issue until the kids rule the roost."

I agree Gail. I don't think we need to get into too much paleo navel gazing over why kids in America resist going to bed. If you don't have a firm and fast rule as a parent and you reward resistance occasionally, you will get it all the time.

We've got a newborn in the house. She sleeps in our room, in a bassinet, but not in our bed. We sometimes soothe her to sleep on one of us, and we all end up dozing, I can't really relax and sleep if she's in the bed. I worry too much about her getting smothered (AAP does not recommend a child share a bed with her parents for this reason; numerous deaths are attributed to cosleeping each year). We tried the sidecar thing, which seems like a safe solution, but it wasn't compatible with our platform bed, and left a big gap between the sidecar and the bed mattress.

I agree with Vinnie that as kids get older, they worry about missing out on something (that was certainly something I recall from the time I was 4 or 5).

I wonder about other cultures also not pushing kids into bed as early as we do. An Indian friend says that it's common there to just bring the kids with the adults, even for events that go late; if they kids get worn out, they crash there.

I think there was a discussion on here not long ago about not hovering over your kids every single time they fall down, but instead giving them a chance to figure out that hey, the boo boo on their knee won't kill them. (Not, of course, when the kid might actually need medical attention, but with minor every day scrapes and bruises.)

Doesn't the same argument apply to bedtime? If you don't keep bringing the kid into your bed until he's big enough to grow a beard, he's going to figure out from experience that he's not out there exposed to the African jungle. He's warm and safe in his bed, with his parents in the next room. Sure, when it's a tiny baby, you go in and check on him if he's crying. You make sure he's OK, you reassure him that you're still there and haven't abandoned him, and you let him go back to sleep. This method has seemed to work for every parent I know -- as long as they're consistent with it.

I've now watched two generations of my friends and family raise small kids, and I don't see any evidence that the non-co-sleeping children were traumatized by their experience. And the parents seemed a lot happier when their kids went to bed and let them have some grown-up time.

I've always been an insomniac, so I've always hated being told when to go to bed.
But my parents would just say, "Get a book -- get in bed." And so I could read by the time I was three.
In hindsight, trying to read probably made me fall asleep faster.

Nowadays, I say the same thing to the boys: "Get a book -- get in bed."

FWIW, this is one of Dr. John Rosemond's biggest peeves.

From a column:

.....Today’s mother, whether she works or not, has lost sight of the fact that the best thing she can possibly do for her children is be a good wife. Likewise, today’s dads have lost sight of the fact that the noblest thing a man can do in his life is be a good husband. A symptom of the former is moms who sleep with their kids, convinced that this promotes bonding and prevents attachment disorder, which is as overblown as was multiple personality disorder 20 years ago (and about which there is question as to its existence). A symptom of the latter is dads who come home to play with their children.

“Why do you do that?” I recently asked one of these child-obsessed dads. He pointed out that his kids hadn’t seen him all day, to which I pointed out that his wife had not seen him all day either. He told me that had not occurred to him.

Right. Today’s parents have all but completely lost sight of the fact that nothing provides more security to a child than the knowledge his mom and dad are married to each other, not to him. Oh, he may like it that mom acts like her life revolves around his existence and dad is his playmate, but the fact a child likes something does not mean it is in his best interest.

All too many of today’s parents — and I have to say, as politically incorrect as it may sound, that what I’m about to say characterizes moms more than it does dads — act as if they took vows on their wedding day that said, “I take you to be my wife/husband until children do us part.”.....

And, from another 2007 column:

.....Proponents of co-sleeping claim it assists with bonding and attachment and other such nonsense, when no study done by an objective party has found any benefit to it whatsoever. Even the generally limp-wristed American Pediatric Society has come out against it. The fact is that children who co-sleep fail to learn how to put themselves to sleep, just as children who use pacifiers fail to learn how to comfort themselves. Problems of the very sort described by this nursing mother are typical when parents try to move a co-sleeping child into his or her own bed. In other words, having a child in bed with you during infancy and early toddlerhood may “solve” (avoid) the bedtime hassles associated with the age, but co-sleeping often leads to intractable sleep problems just as pacifiers often lead to tantrums, excessive crying, and petulance.

The second, but equally important, issue is boundaries. Discipline is leadership, not punishment-ship or consequence-ship, and effective leadership demands a boundary between the leader and the led. In the case of the parent-child/leader-led equation, the boundary should be permeable, but the parent absolutely must control when and how often the child is allowed through the boundary. The sanctity of the marital bed is the First Boundary, prerequisite to all others. When it does not exist, establishing any other boundaries will be nigh unto impossible, which is why co-sleeping and discipline problems in other areas go hand-in-hand (although co-sleeping parents are often in denial about said discipline problems)......

Ugh. I hate it when people drag out the "it's all genetics" argument when it comes to child rearing issues. So what if 10,000 years ago everyone slept together? 10,000 years ago people also left babies with birth defects outside to die. 10,000 years ago people sacrificed children to volcanoes and cave. 10,000 years ago people had babies when they were 13.
Its called evolving for a reason.
My two kids go to bed every night at 8:30 with no complaints, because those are the rules. I love them both more than anything, but they know our bedroom is off limits. We have a living room with a big couch as our "together" place.

> The sanctity of the marital bed is the
> First Boundary, prerequisite to all others.

Admirable deployment of Culty Caps™ !

Sanctity!

I would actually love to see Crid spend the next several years sharing a bed with small children. I suspect that John Rosemund's ideas would seem a lot less "culty" after that.

Frankly, I think the whole co-sleeping thing is "culty." The people I know who practice it tend to be very liberal hippy types with very permissive parenting styles. They're also big on ideas like you should never say no to your kid lest you scar them for life.

But let's forget the theories for a minute. Can anyone show me even ONE study that co-sleeping children are better adjusted?

Boundaries! Capitalization! Sanctity!

STUDIES!!!! (Science!)

______


Silly bloodless Eurowhite codeword picketfencepainting!

And while we're at it, I'd like to see studies of the effects on the parents' marriage.

I know this much. I could never co-sleep. I'd never sleep well, so I'd be even bitchier than I am already. I'd have less sex with my partner because it would skeeve me out to do it while the kids were in the room, and that would make me bitchier still.

If you enjoy co-sleeping, well, go for it. But if you don't -- I fail to see how grumpy, sex-deprived parents will make for calmer, happier children in the long run.

"I would actually love to see Crid spend the next several years sharing a bed with small children."

I really don't know much about the man, but I bet he's not into that.

(Where are the Jews while all this is going on?... Aren't there any busty, soul-tweaking, carb-indulgent women who're into straightforward emotional manipulation anymore?)

...Silly bloodless Eurowhite codeword picketfencepainting!...

Maybe. Or maybe I just hate to see unsupported assertions based purely on an evolutionary theory someone may have just plucked straight of his ass.

"I really don't know much about the man, but I bet he's not into that."

Not to mention it would suck for the kids.

Theories! Evolution!... Unsupported assertions, re: Children! Hatred! Ass!

I am sure Crid would be quite happy to sleep with my daughter.
Of course, she is blond, blue eyed, extremely attractive, and 27 years old. :-)

This is kind of funny because according to the History of Childhood, one reason for sleeping separately was the regular incidence of "overlaying" and smothering or crushing the child.

I know this much. I could never co-sleep. I'd never sleep well, so I'd be even bitchier than I am already. I'd have less sex with my partner because it would skeeve me out to do it while the kids were in the room, and that would make me bitchier still.

That's exactly what I was going to write. I could never co-sleep, but I get that it works for some families.

I used to be TERRIFIED of the dark and sleeping alone, up until age 12. My parents encouraged me to read as late as I wanted and didn't give me a hard time for sleeping with the lights on. Eventually, I covered my walls with glow-in-the-dark stars to make my room less scary. So I figured out what worked for me and grew out of my fear. And, as a girl who was pretty attached to my parents when I was young, I'm glad they forced me to independent in that way.

One totally anecdotal observation -- in all of the co-sleeping families I know, without exception, the mom was the one driving it. The dad was at best putting up with it because the mom wanted it.

One dad I know kept trying to end the practice after the kids got past being babies, but the kids got all upset and mom insisted this was proof that they had to keep co-sleeping for the well-being of the kids. They co-slept until the couple separated (and ultimately, divorced). Now the kids sleep with mom. I believe the dad is sleeping with someone's 27 year old daughter.

Look at the studies in "Pediatrics" and other journals: co-sleeping children get crushed by parents who are 1.) morbidly obese and 2.) drunk or drugged. Don't be those things. You'll be fine.

My grandparents practiced co sleeping but this was about a hundred years ago, My grandfather was a very quiet sleeper and would sleep on his back with the latest baby on his chest.
They did not allow small children to accumulate in the bed and/or crowd them out.

This kept the babies warm and my grandparents never lost a single child. They were six for six.

However, those houses did not have central heating and keeping the babies warm probably contributed greatly to their survival.

just like most things in parenting, you have to weigh the pros and cons, and decide which is best....

The problem is, a lot of people only wish to be told what is right, and then they do that.

My Q? would be: what's the incidence of SIDS vs. what's the incidence of overlay? Couple that with potential downsides to the marriage, ie. never getting your wife back, what then is the value of this? Is it more valuable than harmful?

The anecdotes about kids and their terrors only go so far... my kids had a rigid bed time, #1son was co-slept, daughter, not, and neither had a problem with sleep. My sister? co-slept, no rigid bed time, and her daughter sleeps with the lights on, IF she will stay in her bedroom [7yr old].

Why is she worried more about wild dogs, than my children? No Clue.

I. I wish you guys would read that link at 11:51am, above, re: SIDS. Feel the Power of the Dark Side of the Force....

II. This shit cracks me up. (The cover article itself is incredibly long and goofy and girly-pretentious. Generations later, people are going to look back at that thing and wonder how the sisters got to be so full of themselves. And long-winded. Twelve thousand words!)

III. More on the lesser parts of feminine nature here in these comments later this evening! Don't miss it!

♥

I must have been an introvert at a very young age, because I never had an issue with sleeping in my own room, in my own bed. One of my earliest memories was the bright blue carpet in my very own room, and I thought it was just the coolest thing ever. I have one memory of waking up in the middle of the night, and it's because I was hungry. I demanded hot milk, and my poor tired mother told me I'd just have to have cold milk, poured some in a bottle, stuck it in my screaming piehole, and went back to bed. I know I was younger than three, and I think it's funny. We still laugh about it. Guess I had to learn the hard way that I didn't have a maid on staff, something which I still wish I had. From Mel Brooks - "Everybody ought to have a maid!"

Also, Amy, I like "G'won" - I'm stealing it. Credit will be given for the first few months. Then I will let my friends think I invented it myself, and I expect you to be okay with that!

:-)

> I never even dreamed of sleeping in my
> parents' bed.

Reminds me of Narcolepsy:

I hold my breath 'til it's
More than I can take
Then I close my eyes
And dream that I'm awake!

Crid's SIDS link above is pretty interesting. I'd hate to think the incidence of homicide masquerading as SIDS is as high as the article suggests, but then again -- a mom killing her kids happens more often than we like to admit. And the reasons are often pretty damn cold-blooded. (Wasn't Susan Smith thinking she'd get her lover back if it weren't for her kids?) I never thought of it as an evolutionary holdover, but it does make scary sense that a mother in paleo times might often be better off in the long term if she offed an inconvenient baby.

Another reason I couldn't co-sleep -- I love my huge cushy pillows and my big fluffy down duvet far too much to give them up. I've even got a big feather bed perched on top of my mattress. You sink into my bed like a cherry into whipped cream, and that's the way I like it. I've heard you should ditch all that stuff if you want to co-sleep with a baby or small child. No way, man! Phooey on mats!

Semi-off-topic: I read about a study back in the late eighties. I don't know if it was ever cross-studied.

They found that a large number of myopic (near-sighted) patients slept in rooms with night lights. The assumption was that the eyes of the children still tried to focus through the eyelids even while the person was sleeping. Then the focus no longer worked the same.

When your child screams at being put to bed alone at night, your child is not trying to test your will! No! Your child is, instead, auditioning to be on The Biggest Screamer, the popular reality show where kids from around the country compete to see who can make all three judges want to yank their eardrums out with their bare hands. The winner gets to scream throughout a State of the Union address, during a Papal Mass, throughout a Chanoyu and on all flights within the continental United States.

Perhaps young children prefer a warm body in their bed for the same reason adults do. It feels cozy and good. Also, smaller children's bodies are less able to regulate temperature effectively. Many just plain old sleep better, longer when snuggled up next to another warm body.

Also, as Vinnie said at 12:33, they don't want to miss anything.

Not being a parent I didn't save it, but there was an article out there years ago that said there are, um, sensitivities within the human organism to prevent you from rolling over on babies and killing them in your sleep. This made sense... It doesn't happen to pets, small spouses or smaller children, not even in some size-proportional frequency. People don't roll off beds very often either.

Worry about it if you want, they're your kids... But it doesn't seem likely (without drinking or drugs) that you're going to drop consciousness and lose awareness that it's a beloved human being beside you and not a throw pillow.

A couple of times in life I've been surprised at young mothers, friends of mine, who've expressed freaky fear that their little boys are too timid or feminine-seeming. And by little boys, I mean four-year-olds.... Tender, fully-dependent human beings who have good reason to worry about wolves and thunderstorms and the boogiemen of a larger world they can't comprehend. The incongruity of their mother's expectations for vibes of thunder-pec'd machismo is tied into the SIDS article in some way that I can't express yet. But these things belie the fantasy of feminine love as an endlessly nurturing and supportive force.

Radio guy Prager once said the most poignant rhyme in the English language is "mother" and "smother". Many more children's lives are choked by the figurative crush of expectations and manipulation than by thoughtless midnight rollovers.

> She is blond, blue eyed, extremely attractive,
> and 27 years old.

By all means, have her check in with my office. Does she have any aunts born '55-'65?

> children get crushed by parents who are
> 1.) morbidly obese and 2.) drunk or drugged.

Ah, CB already covered this.

Pirate Jo: When I was very little, my dad painted Care Bears on my wall. Apparently, I used to talk to them until I fell asleep. There's something to be said for making a small child's room comforting and "their own". It makes them more independent.

Crid said: "But it doesn't seem likely (without drinking or drugs) that you're going to drop consciousness and lose awareness that it's a beloved human being beside you and not a throw pillow."

Eh, give and take on this. All the literature I read when I was pregnant also said that I won't be able to sleep through my baby's crying. And yet, it's a good thing my hubby doesn't travel, because there's been quite a few nights that he's had to get up with the baby cuz I've been dead to the world.

But despite that, when we brought baby home, for those first few weeks we did quite a bit of "accidental co-sleeping". (Meaning we were so desperately tired that we didn't have the energy to start Bassinet Wars 2011). So we'd snooze for the two or three hours he'd sleep with the baby on our chests, or snuggled in our arms. And to my surprise, I was able to both 1) get decent sleep and 2) not crush baby. My hubby had a more difficult time however, it should be noted, but still managed to sleep. And baby was safe, so long as he was on Daddy's chest and not actually on the mattress.

As a rule, I'm with Amy. Bassinet is best. He's nearby, he's learning that he can't be held 24/7, he's got parents near enough to pick up breathing cues, background noise to fall asleep to, and Mom and Dad have a prayer for getting some actual deep sleep.

I do think that daytime versus nighttime sleeping is an interesting and unexplored facet in this discussion. After two months, we didn't put Baby in the bassinet for day naps, we put him in his crib (swaddled). And now, at four months, he sleeps in his crib for about ten hours a night no problems, and we're even teaching him to sleep unswaddled (cuz he'll be rolling over soon). I was a little sorry that we had to move him from his bassinet so soon, but he just outgrew the silly thing by leaps and bounds! My little guy is already 27 inches long!

"One totally anecdotal observation -- in all of the co-sleeping families I know, without exception, the mom was the one driving it. The dad was at best putting up with it because the mom wanted it."

Well, now you can count one for the other side. Our kid sleeps with us because Husband thinks it's "mean" to let her cry or get upset at bedtime. I've gotten her into her own bed several times and it's always Daddy who brings her back to ours. In fact, it's generally Daddy who gives into any type of unreasonable toddler demand she makes. (Two days ago he suggested that we get her a TV for her room. Seriously. A tv for a two-year old. That one came pretty close to starting a fight.) I don't think we would have the same problem if Baby Alice were Baby Andrew instead.

Sounds like sumbitch is in love.

I remember when I was very young I didn't want to go to bed. However, it wasn't because it was dark. I was annoyed that everyone else got to stay up. As the youngest child of four with the closest sibling in my age 6 years older, I was mad to be going to bed so early while my brother and sisters stayed up.

My desire to stay up late never went away. Even now I stay up as long as possible. Responsibility of having to go to work in the morning does kick in to force me to bed, but I trained myself into a routine that allows staying up to at least midnight. On weekends when I don't have to go work in the morning, 2 am or 3 am bedtimes are the norm.

"Perhaps young children prefer a warm body in their bed for the same reason adults do. It feels cozy and good."

I'm probably all alone here, but I actually *don't* particularly like another warm body in bed with me (if we're just talking sleep, at least). It gets sweaty and they're always moving or snoring or something. Maybe it's because I'm a light sleeper. Ideally, I prefer to have sex, cuddle, and then both retire to our own beds where we can stretch out, snore etc., and actually get a good night's sleep. That's why my boyfriend and I don't move in together. Sometimes we do overnights and it's fun, but I never sleep particularly well. Luckily, he shares the same quirk, and equally luckily, we live in the same neighborhood.

Maybe it's because my family didn't co-sleep and I never learned to sleep while another sweaty body was throwing a heavy arm over me and breathing noisily in my ear?

All my girls slept with me for at least a year. I was nursing and it made life easy and I didn't roll over and squish anyone. Although since my ex husband was a larger man, on more than one occasion he was awakened by a baby trying to get some milk. To this day, my bedroom is the gathering place, and my girls are all adults now and they still want to hang out and watch TV in my bed. Even my 4 year old grandson sleeps with me when he stays over, and that started the day he came home from the hospital.

> My desire to stay up late never went away.

Same stories here, then and now. With a short week of long days, I now swing all around the clock several times a month.


> I'm probably all alone here, but

Gail, start reading here.

> in all of the co-sleeping families I know,
> without exception, the mom was the one
> driving it.

Women command, or at least vet, the interpersonal behavior in many households. They want to do it, and some families (men in particular) appreciate the leadership.

Huh. It never occurred to me that there might be a medical/physical reason I find it so intolerably hot to sleep next to someone. I assumed everyone got hot, but liked it that way. I've had more than one boyfriend think I was "standoffish" or didn't really like him because I don't really enjoy sleeping cuddled up to someone. But really, it's just that I get so damn hot I can't sleep! Even on a cool night, I feel like I'm right on top of a radiator. So maybe... some people just feel cozy and nice?

There's essentially zero popular literature.

The genetic marker (eye wrinkle) is here.

The larger constellation of conditions is called atopic dermatitis... Do not Google that unless you can turn off images or deal with saddening pictures of children. Aside from impatience with body heat and perfumes, many people suffer unattractive skin problems.

(Personally, I'm blessed to be just incredibly good-looking... Until someone tries to cuddle up with a fragrant chardonnay.)

Holy crap. I might have this. I have a doctor's appointment coming up, and I'm going to ask about it. I have always had a little line under my eyes. I don't generally have unattractive skin problems -- but then I'm really careful about what I use on it because if I'm not, I'm prone to unpleasant breakouts. Sadly, another person's hot chest against my back all night gives me a hot prickly rash in the morning. And I've stopped dating more than one person over excessive aftershave.

My current dude gets it, but some previous boyfriends didn't. There should be a dating site for people with this condition.

Anyway, thanks. I've always felt a tiny bit defensive about the sleeping thing. So maybe...I really am experiencing this differently from my former cuddle-all-night boyfriends.

It's not a single thing. It crosses a lot of disciplines and diagnoses, which is why there's no book. Don't be panicked by the allergies of others, etc.