It's not that men are jerks for wanting to have sex, it's that men are jerks – period.

I always wonder where these people hang out. My friends and acquaintances come from many walks of life and I very rarely hear the "all men are dogs" comments. I won't say never, but usually the person making the negative comment is not someone who has many opinions I respect and I chalk up the "men are dogs" comment as one of the less intelligent things spouted.

"all men are dogs"

Yet, in between barking and scratching, the larger portion of those loyal, dutiful animals built the world in which morons (and the morons' children) who say this reside in such comfort and safety.

I won't say never, but usually the person making the negative comment is not someone who has many opinions I respect and I chalk up the "men are dogs" comment as one of the less intelligent things spouted.

People who say things like this are children, emotionally if not physically. It's like the thought occurred to them in the shower one day, and it felt really deep, like when teenagers get their first inkling of how unfair life is and act like they're the first ones ever to feel it.

It can't possibly be that they had some bad luck or made some poor choices. It has to be that 50 percent of the population is just That Way. It relieves them of all responsibility for the choices they've made, and they get to claim some special insight into the human condition.

Some men do this, too. "Women are gold diggers. Women are whores." Never mind that throughout human history, women have been creating the world, too.

But most of the men and women I know don't have such a skewed view of people. It's mostly just the people who never managed to put their own painful experiences into perspective.

I recently opted out of a book club meetup based on the choosen material. Can't recall the exact title, but along the lines of 'My Husband is a Beer Guzzling Dumbass Lazy Neanderthal but I Love Him Anyway'. ya, no thanks.
Man-bashing is soooo over. I adore a good man.

Overweight guys living in their mother's basements probably think all women are bitches for the same reason some extreme feminists think all men are dogs. It's because the opposite sex doesn't consider them worthy of attention, so they have to come up with a put down.

I wonder how many of the women that complain about men always wanting sex are actually complaining about personal experience.

I think that this is an adjunct to the concept that good women shouldn't want or like sex. If sex is bad and good women shouldn't want it, then of course men who want sex are animals. It is more about fucked up views of sex than it is misandry.

-Julie

I've noticed that any woman who walks around with "all men are jerks" running around in her head 24/7 is not someone I would want to fuck anyway.

Hey! It's win/win!

I wonder if it might also be an over-inflated view of their own value. If your experience is that all men ever want from you is sex, then maybe that's the only thing you have that appeals. If no one can tell that you're also funny and smart and insightful, maybe you aren't those things.

Where are women who feel this way found? Seven Sisters colleges? Living in the Bay Area, I assume that all the women I know would describe themselves as feminists. And yet none are negative on male sexuality; to the contrary, they seem to enjoy it.

I have never run into the "all men want is sex" crowd. But I also have always been picky that I want smart, sweet, friendly women to make love too.

I wonder how much of this has to to with the lens of the internet...I have heard this sort of thing many times online, but in person, even second hand, not so much.

However. I see it implicitly a lot, especially amongst married friends.

Sometimes it's more instructive to watch what people do, rather than what they say.

I don't think that Williams is commenting on outright male bashing, rather the tendency for many women to be reflexively critical and dismissive of male sexuality. This is very common, in my experience, and not isolated to die hard feminists. I don't think that it's necessarily even a feminist position. A lot of women are uncomfortable with the fact that men want sex more often than they do, and on different terms than what women would typically prefer. Denying that you even know anyone that might think this way is hard to believe. Perhaps you're just so accustomed to it that you don't recognize this behavior when it occurs.

Hey, Dee Nile? Remember back when you said, "All Men Are Jerks?"
I just wanted to tell you how funny that was.
It was so funny back when you said, "All men are jerks."
Man, good times.

From Garrison Keillor: ". . . Guys are not equipped for it anyway. We are lovers and artists and adventurers, meant to be noble, free-ranging and foolish, like dogs, not competing for a stamp of approval, Friend of Womanhood."

One of the many ways men and women are not the same is their level of horniness. Some women, through no real fault of their own, like to think they're just as horny as men and want sex just as much and often, and men are too thickheaded and naive to grasp that and are too contemptibly weak to control their carnal desires.

These ladies like to pat themselves on the back for their noble sexual restraint in compliance with the social pressure on women to conform to standards of sexual moderation. BZZZ, wrong! You do not experience the same level of perpetual debilitating lust as men. We are primed by evolution to drain our testicles. We produce one thousand sperm per heartbeat. We have ten to twenty times as much testosterone as you. Homosexuals squirt loads into each other constantly not because they're oversexed but because they're men. If women had the same sex drive as men, all heterosexual relationships would put the couple at risk of becoming dangerously low in vital bodily fluids.

Women who are injected with testosterone experience rushes of arousal that they've never experienced before. In a documentary I once watched, one woman who had been injected with testosterone as part of a sex change operation admitted that she had thought that she knew what it was like to be a man but really she had no idea; it wasn't until male levels of testosterone were introduced into her bloodstream that she really got it. She became obsessed with fucking. Welcome to the male brain!

By the way, beware any woman who continually spouts "all men are jerks"--you're almost invariably dealing with a emotionally damaged, flighty idiot who is addicted to alpha males and whose vagina has been scoured by googol amounts of penises. Trust me on this one.

;)

I make more sperm that all of the women in the world combined!!

Agree that it is no crime-or personality flaw-that guys want to get laid.
My only complaint is when that need is voiced at very inappropriate times.
Example. Just finishes reading an autobiography of a female transplant surgeon, whom after a particularly difficult surgery with a very successful outcome was told by her fellow surgeon, "You have no idea how bad I want to fuck you right now."
Always being horny is fine. Feeling that you need to share said feelings of horniness at unacceptable times, not fine.

I don't think much of the "Good Men" Project. Keep getting the impression of spineless boys begging for forgiveness for being born male.

That said, any woman who thinks we men are jerks for wanting sex is off her rocker. And frankly, we're tired of the shaming. You want to spew "all men are jerks?" Thanks for the warning; we'll all leave you alone now. I mean *alone* - forever. Hope you like cats.

Hilariously, there's a big discussion raging at HUS - do guys have to act like jerks now if they want a relationship?
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/10/22/relationshipstrategies/guys-acting-like-jerks-to-get-a-relationship/
The overall response? YES!

So many being a jerk is damned if you do/damned if you don't now. If that's the case, I might as well be as much of a jerk as I want. It'll get me more sex!

Politically incorrect observations: If men didn't want sex more than women, it would ruin a lot of entitlements that women enjoy including feminism itself (which I consider to merely be a paradoxical extension of chivalry.)

This is kind of like a cheerleader using her good looks to get lots of fun dates and then griping on them "the men only want one thing!"

That said, they have a point: As the Brits put it, the American male is oversexed, overpaid, and over here. Men with healthy sex drives don't take feminist ideology seriously. Marcus should be prepared for a lifetime of women complaining about men like him because that's what he's there for.

The best men are like dogs -- sweet and loyal.

and with an instinct for the jugular

Wanting sex doesn’t make you a jerk. But your bad attitude might. I cannot speak for all women, only myself. But if a man approaches me with an attitude of simply wanting to satisfy his needs, and makes me feel like a tool, it’s a big turnoff. My response: What a jerk!

But if he approached me in a way that makes me feel attractive, desirable and appreciated, I am more inclined to open myself to him sexually. And it becomes a win-win situation. How do you do this? With genuine and sweet words of appreciation (not flattery for the sake getting laid!), body language that is unthreatening and a concern for my safety and enjoyment. Learn to stroke these virtues and you might get some back in return.

"We are primed by evolution to drain our testicles."

There's a female analog to this issue. Women are primed to have and nurture babies. It's in our plumbing; perhaps you noticed. No, all that stuff is just for you. Not all of it.

But since the 50s it has become trés uncool to admit the desire for a family. Not all women want it, but many do, unless life convinces them that it's just not going to happen.

But much of the craziness you see in modern premenopausal women is due to this struggle to come to grips with a destiny only dimly perceived.

"The best men are like dogs -- sweet and loyal."

Funny you bring this up... I was flipping through stations in the car the other day, and on the country station they were playing a song about a guy who wants his girlfriend to love him like his dog does.
"I want you to love me like my dog does, baby
When I come home, want you to just go crazy
He never looks at me like he might hate me
I want you to love me like my dog"
-Billy Currington, "Like My Dog"
(OK, so that has nothing to do with anything, but it's the first thing that popped into my head when the men/dogs analogy came up.)

For some reason I'm reminded of a line from 'Frasier':
"How can men use sex to get what we want? Sex IS what we want!"

Frankly, I, a straight woman, have had trouble finding a long term male partner whose sex drive is as high as mine, and who doesn't feel threatened by it.

I have been accused by various partners of only wanting sex from a relationship, of being addicted to sex, and of wanting to have sex with every man I meet. Extremely upsetting, untrue accusations, and I don't know what I did to trigger them other than want and enjoy (apparently) lots of sex.

I feel compassion for men who get turned down and put down for wanting sex from their partners, because I've experienced it myself. It's a really lousy feeling.

Now granted, I did choose some massively inappropriate partners in the past. But I also went with one very kind guy for a while. He never said a mean word to me, but he could not keep up either. Misery for both of us.

I am now involved with a FANTASTICALLY compatible, darling man, but some of the other ingredients necessary for a long term partnership are missing. It's more of a pleasant interlude.

I'm not trying to say my experience is typical, but I'm sure I'm not the only one either. I just find it odd that with all the feminist bashing of the male sex drive, women who actually WANT lots of sex sometimes get judged harshly by men.

Are men perhaps programmed to look down on this??

So does anybody else see the parallel between this blog and this week's column?

P.S. Love the Gregg shoe chewing imagery. Hysterical!

Example. Just finishes reading an autobiography of a female transplant surgeon, whom after a particularly difficult surgery with a very successful outcome was told by her fellow surgeon, "You have no idea how bad I want to fuck you right now."
Always being horny is fine. Feeling that you need to share said feelings of horniness at unacceptable times, not fine.

Posted by: UW Girl

Men find competence and power sexy, and I'm betting had she beem in a mood to fuck him she wouldnt have found his comment degrading or unacceptable, she would have found it intreuging and stimulating and the story would have went on to describe how she fucked him in the on call room

if a man approaches me with an attitude of simply wanting to satisfy his needs, and makes me feel like a tool, it’s a big turnoff. My response: What a jerk!

But if he approached me in a way that makes me feel attractive, desirable and appreciated, I am more inclined to open myself to him sexually. Posted by: AW

So what your suggesting is that men lie to women. I wonder why no one ever thought of that before.

Frankly, I, a straight woman, have had trouble finding a long term male partner whose sex drive is as high as mine, and who doesn't feel threatened by it.

So, do you Live in AZ and are you seeing anyone?

but he could not keep up either. Misery for both of us.

And thats way man inventer power tools

I am now involved with a FANTASTICALLY compatible, darling man,

Damn

I'm not trying to say my experience is typical, but I'm sure I'm not the only one either. I just find it odd that with all the feminist bashing of the male sex drive, women who actually WANT lots of sex sometimes get judged harshly by men.
Are men perhaps programmed to look down on this??
Posted by: YTS

Probably something to do with the religous/femisnist sex shame culture we live in

Hmm. And women go to bars because...?

"It isn't a turn-on to feel like a conveniently located hole, but what kind of idiot approaches women and thinks he's going to get laid with that tactic?"

They're called Johns.

My dog is a sweet old lady, but she wakes me up in the morning demanding breakfast.

My boyfriend wakes me up in the morning MAKING breakfast.

I suspect the sex drive difference between the average man and average woman is in part social conditioning. Slut-shaming is a very old tactic for reigning in female sexual desire. A woman likes sex a little too much and she's got a rep forever. A man likes sex a little too much and he's a stud. And you can't flip the switch on that kind of conditioning just because there's a promise forever and ever.

So what your suggesting is that men lie to women.

Or he could just have a dick instead of BEING a dick. Men need to be psychologically attractive if they want play. Saying otherwise is like homely women insisting men should love them for their beautiful souls.

And I agree Monica, but if a guy hits on you in a bar it isnt because he wants to get to know you better so he can decied AFTER a half an hour of converstaion whether or not he wants to have sex with you.

If he can play the game, then no harm done. She's playing it, too, by wearing makeup and her push-up bra. Unless it's drunken, indiscriminate sex, both people are playing a game.

If he's spending a half hour of bar time chatting up a chick, he probably want to have sex with her. Spending that half hour being pleasant can only help him. This is much easier if he actually likes the woman he is trying to have sex with.

Women get offended when unattractive men hit on them because they feel that by hitting on them, the men think they are in their league. If the man is from what the woman considers a low league, its insulting to her.

The sort of woman who gets offended by a man asking her out is certainly in a league of her own. I feel really lucky not to be friends with anyone like this.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a man wanting to get laid - but there's also nothing wrong with a woman, for example, saying she wants kids (interesting post at Sexy Typewriter about how wanting kids doesn't make her hysterical, irrational, or otherwise undateable).

And to clarify, I want the former, but not the latter.

"Women get offended when unattractive men hit on them because they feel that by hitting on them, the men think they are in their league. If the man is from what the woman considers a low league, its insulting to her."

There's the old saying that you should watch how your date treats the waiter because that will be you 20 years down the road.

By the same token, imagine if a guy decided that since an old woman carrying groceries had nothing to offer him sexually, he just slammed the door in her face rather than held it open for her.

The notion of manners in the past was that men and women acted decently in order to "pay it forward." People wanted a society where they treated each other decently and frowned upon those who were opportunistic.

The USA encouraged such opportunistic bad manners partly due to the wild-west mentality in addition to lack of a cohesive culture and ethnic identity. Hmm, this ties in neatly with Amy's book about rudeness. It was exacerbated back in the late 50's and early 60's when "independence" and sexual liberation caught on. When people sought only to care about themselves, why feel guilty about slamming the door in the face of a stranger you'll never see again? Or treating a guy like dirt if he isn't in your league? Anyone who has nothing to give us is nothing. Heck, also litter if you like and nobody is watching. Why not? Me me me me me!

"Wanting sex doesn’t make you a jerk. But your bad attitude might. I cannot speak for all women, only myself. But if a man approaches me with an attitude of simply wanting to satisfy his needs, and makes me feel like a tool, it’s a big turnoff. My response: What a jerk!"

Sounds like the choice for guys in this instance is to either be a "jerk" (wanting to satisfy "his" needs) or a lapdog (begging for sex treats by saying what the woman wants to hear.)

If a woman wants sex as much as a man, or can enjoy it as much as him, then she needs to take more responsibility. She wants a higher quality of men for example in her league? Then stop sitting around waiting to get picked up!

I know guys who are "league hitters" and they live in a special universe that I'm envious of. They don't hit on women or go to any special effort to get nookie. They simply start talking to a woman they find desirable and she proposes what he wants assuming she hasn't gone up to him first. The rest of us men are in the world of being sexual dogs and I don't feel too bad about it since 99% of us men are in that category.

Sounds like the choice for guys in this instance is to either be a "jerk" (wanting to satisfy "his" needs) or a lapdog (begging for sex treats by saying what the woman wants to hear.)

You're not the first man here to boil it down to this choice; however, this flies in the face of everything you said before this. He doesn't have to lie any more than ANY of us has to lie to navigate social situations. I don't need to care deeply for the old lady behind me in order to hold the door open for her. I just need to be aware of my impact on others.

hey simply start talking to a woman they find desirable...

That's pretty much the key. And I'm assuming these guys don't start the conversation with, "I really need to get off, and you looked like a convenient moist hole."

"The last thing I want to do is come home to Gregg on the rug with a guilty look on his face and one of my fabulous vintage Walter Steiger pumps in his mouth."

... Although I understand some people are into that kind of thing. ;-)

"The USA encouraged such opportunistic bad manners partly due to the wild-west mentality in addition to lack of a cohesive culture and ethnic identity."

I often wonder where this euro trash "sociology babble" thinking comes from?

I would like to know what a "wild west" mentality consists of and how do you recognize it?
Why not just use "cowboy" a derisive term applied to Ronald Regan, and later George Bush, by the euro weenie elite?

If you think bad manners is a hallmark of the 19th century western US, you need to read more actual history and watch fewer movies.

In my experience, good manners cross cultural lines and if there is a common denominator among ill mannered people, it tends to be that they weren't taught manners as children, or, they are assholes and have gotten away with being rude and ill mannered.
I have also experienced people who are selectively rude. They are ill mannered with anyone they perceive to be social inferiors, but know better than to pull that kind of shit with anyone they think can do them any damage (their boss for instance)

As to the "superiority" of European manners. I have lived there and just haven't seen it.

"I always wonder where these people hang out. My friends and acquaintances come from many walks of life and I very rarely hear the "all men are dogs" comments."

Ditto, Kristen. Maybe we've just picked the right friends.

"And women go to bars because...?"

Because we like beer?

> I very rarely hear the "all men are dogs"
> comments."

Well, you'd hear them from me. I mean it. Men are dogs... Their motives and enthusiasms confound women in a thousand contexts, and even from THIS side of the fence, I'm appalled at how naive women can be about it.

At the same time... The average nice guy, the loving husband of your friend who SEEMS like a loving husband, IS IN FACT a loving husband. Maybe he's had to learn to handle women's mentality as a second language, and maybe he'll never lose his accent. But there are lot of men out there who, after waking up in the morning and scratching their nuts, turn immediately to the list of expectations written by their wives, and are planning deft execution even before their feet swing from the bed to the floor.

The better wives GET this. They're courageous enough to understand that an effort is made from both sides of the contract. For men, being married is inherently humble.

And for the bachelors?

_________________________________________

Well. Free Practice One from the new Indian Formula One circuit in New Dehli starts in about three hours... But you savages haven't even MENTIONED that, have you?

And you CERTAINLY haven't talked about the Grand Prix that's been scheduled for just across the river from Manhattan. The setting isn't exactly as glamorous as Monaco, but the sheer capitalist animal energy from the Big Apple could make this the most exiting auto race of 2013.

Sometimes I'm embarrassed for you people. Your values are all out of whack.

You guys know what happened to Lewis yesterday, right? That's right, AGAIN.

What, you DON'T???

Hammy. Boyfriend's been getting sent to the principal's office all year.

The last time I heard "All you ever want is sex!", we hadn't had sex in over six months. We were in a motel hot tub 300 miles from home, and I was trying to cuddle on her. After her bad experience with her psycho ex, it seemed like an opportunity to reconnect. I was nearly inclined to drop her off at the Amtrak.

"I was nearly inclined to drop her off at the Amtrak."

You should have. Follow your gut. :-)

You're not the first man here to boil it down to this choice; however, this flies in the face of everything you said before this. He doesn't have to lie any more than ANY of us has to lie to navigate social situations. I don't need to care deeply for the old lady behind me in order to hold the door open for her. I just need to be aware of my impact on others.

I'm reminded of a cute episode of "My Name is Earl" where Earl's dad thinks that all the women at the stores who were friendly with him were flirting and tries to hit on them and they say that they never were interested in him. In other words, the women were "beggars" in that scenario due to their role as clerks.

Of course, what made this funny is that all of us know this to be a plain fact but he lived in a special universe where he believed it to be true. If men are "dogs", namely lapdogs who lie through their teeth to get laid, then women seem to like that behavior.

Of course, there's a difference between that and being vulgar. You don't expect a clerk to be rude to you and order to present your purchases.

I refer to ultra attractive men "hey simply start talking to a woman they find desirable..."

You respond: "That's pretty much the key. And I'm assuming these guys don't start the conversation with, "I really need to get off, and you looked like a convenient moist hole."

Er, that wasn't my point. These men didn't even have any ulterior motive in talking to the women. In the case of normal men, they have to look for attractive women and make a conscious decision to approach them. For attractive men, they are much like women and don't need to initiate conversation to meet them or they truly are asking for directions to the store.

This is perhaps why many women are so frustrated with men: The only men willing to jump through hoops are by definition the unattractive ones and these women think they deserve better.

Regarding social tact, I agree with you. Someone ought to tell women that asking men what job they do on a first date is little different than asking us to produce our W4. In addition, if you want men to behave more politely, stop behaving in a manner that requires men to engage in predator behavior. Behaving like a damsel in distress is a sure way to attract dragons...