Treating Kids Like China Dolls
Lenore Skenazy blogs at Free Range Kids that there was an accident in an elementary school, where a kid fell off his stool in the cafeteria and hit his head, so now children must be immobilized during lunch:
...A whole new array of rules in the cafeteria have been established, including that kids who need a fork, spoon, straw, etc. are now not permitted to get up and get one, but instead they are to raise their hand and ask the lunchroom monitors to get it for them. Kids are also no longer permitted to use the restroom during lunchtime.I am sorry that a child bumped his head, but I do not see the sense in preventing kids from taking care of their own needs helps this. There is not always an institutional solution to every little problem. The kid fell not because someone got up and got a straw. The kid fell because he is a little kid who sat a little goofy on his stool and lost his balance.
This is a perfect example of over-correcting for an unfortunate accident and in the meantime, creating worse problems for kids. I think 4th graders should not expect an adult to take care of all their needs.
Bruce Schneier on the difference between feeling secure and being secure:
This is the same thought that the school is applying.
Humans are incredibly tough, but are easily damaged by any number of factors within and outside their control.
I agree it is tragic that a child may have been hurt, but it is the child's fault, not the collective population of the school.
You learn to mitigate the factors that will hurt you as you grow. If you don't, or are not allowed, to learn that things can hurt you, when you are responsible for your own well-being you will not be able to cope.
Jim P. at November 6, 2011 5:05 AM
I wouldn't even call it tragic. Kids are kids, they'll get hurt, they're not made of glass, fall off a chair, get a bump on the noggin, maybe a few stitches or a bruise, whooptdy doo. No biggie, I rode my bike as a kid straight over an elevated wall trying to jump the thing.
I regularly hopped my neighbors fence barefoot and got those nasty little burrs stuck in my feet.
I played redneck basketball (regular ball with a no blood no foul rule), and did this AT SCHOOL, and nobody ever decided to yank up the poles, even came away with one good looking scar and a cool story to tell.
I skateboarded down the middle of a suburban street with no helmet, and took a header into the road.
I and my friends all went pool hopping around the neighborhood and never once had adult supervision outside watching us while we went from one place to the next.
I had actual LEAD miniatures to play D&D with.
I regularly went walking alone in the woods behind my house when I was 5 & 6 years old with nothing but my dog as a companion, and yes, I even got into a shallow creek alone to catch crawdads without an adult handy to make sure I didn't get pinched or fall down or something.
A kid falling off a chair should not be a mandate to keep kids from getting their own straws, like immobile little china dolls.
Great way to cripple kids sense of independence or ability to care for themselves. Fucking morons. Its like they have no childhood memories of their own at all.
Robert at November 6, 2011 6:05 AM
As long as the parents say nothing, this will grow.
Radwaste at November 6, 2011 6:06 AM
Raise you hand if you hate the TED music; have ALWAYS hated the TED music no matter how they've revised it; and will always hate the TED music... Because, as a shameless, witless derivative of the TV news show themes from the 1960's (buttressed by canned applause), it's a pompous and pathetic signifier of our generation's demand for intrusive reassurance of our modernity and bogus dynamism. (As is the entire product line from Apple.)
(Limbs waggle six-grade style, some augmented with "Ooo! Ooooo!)
Very good. Hands down.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at November 6, 2011 6:08 AM
No offense to the ladies, but I don't think that we'd be seeing nearly so many of these sorts of comically hypercautious proscriptions if school staffs weren't 99.9% female. For all of their good qualities, women do tend to err on the side of over-protectiveness, hypervigilence, rule making, and coercion.
peter at November 6, 2011 6:13 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/06/treating_kids_l.html#comment-2743879">comment from RobertKids are kids, they'll get hurt, they're not made of glass, fall off a chair, get a bump on the noggin, maybe a few stitches or a bruise, whooptdy doo. No biggie, I rode my bike as a kid straight over an elevated wall trying to jump the thing.
I rode my bike into a parked car while reading while riding my bicycle.
Amy Alkon at November 6, 2011 7:11 AM
Oh man...
My kid has broke both his arm (monkey bars- 4th grade) and his finger (basketball- 8th grade) playing at school. He also broke his collar bone (18 months)and leg (2nd grade) at home. He has a creek to play in at home here. He has had stitches, staples and/or steri-strips 4 times in 17 years.
Every other year or so he'd push the envelope and it would push back. My kid *finally* learned to be a bit more careful of himself. Mostly. If I'd kept him swaddled, he'd have killed himself first time off-leash.
And he also loosened his teeth riding his bike into a parked car.
So staples in the scalp this year but otherwise nothing of note since the broken pinky in 8th grade. Four years without a cast or stitches. His record!
If he'd gone to the school in the post, he'd have been suspended for not following the rules. Again.
LauraGr at November 6, 2011 7:26 AM
I actually agree with you. The loss or damage of a single child is a tragedy for the family and friends. If the cause is epidemic, then it should mitigated or prevented.
An example would be 25% of children have an allergic reaction to <item> then you either ban the the <item> or find a way to control exposure. But when you have a 1.3% allergy (peanuts) you teach the individual child, not punish the rest.
This is a case of a careless child injuring him/her self. Instead of looking at the child and the circumstances, the rules were changed.
Another case of equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity.
Jim P. at November 6, 2011 7:40 AM
So... these kids now have adults in the lunchroom, literally waiting on them hand and foot. Yeah, that's going to end well.
Cousin Dave at November 6, 2011 7:41 AM
I don't know Peter. I think it's more a function of bureaucracy than gender. I've seen growth of this sort of hyper cautious mindset in too many places. I've seen it in construction where everyone has to wear a hard hat on site, even when there is zero reason for it, as it satisfies insurance companies who underwrite the general contractor. I don't think it's because of the rare woman on a job site.
And I agree with Crid regarding the music. They should replace it with the Howie Scream. Look it up.
Abersouth at November 6, 2011 7:52 AM
"I rode my bike into a parked car while reading while riding my bicycle."
Did the same thing, but it was a blonde in tight jeans rather than a book that caused my inattention.
Steamer at November 6, 2011 8:03 AM
Protect kids from getting minor bumps and bruises, and they'll be less careful in situations where they could really get hurt.
Trust at November 6, 2011 8:04 AM
> So... these kids now have adults in the
> lunchroom, literally waiting on them
> hand and foot.
Kleybold & Harris were said to have been raised in a broadly-dispersed neighborhood and driven everywhere they went by their mothers... Until they turned 16, and were handed driver's licenses and the keys to a new Beemer.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at November 6, 2011 12:49 PM
An example would be 25% of children have an allergic reaction to then you either ban the the or find a way to control exposure. But when you have a 1.3% allergy (peanuts) you teach the individual child, not punish the rest.
Lousy example, sorry. It's impossible to teach the individual child how to sift the air for peanut dust (and once found, to get the fuck out of the room, while not breathing). Heck, you could teach an adult that, and they couldn't do it. It's invisible, and deadly. And excuse me if I think having a preventable death rate of 1.3% of the children is too high.
Some of my most vivid memories of childhood are about the scrapes and nasty bruises I got as a kid. The teachers barely bothered to even look at me, much less keep the other kids from doing same insanity(insert dangerous practice here). I just had to nurse my scraped knee along until - by magic - it got better! No, I don't think it's necessary to wrap the kinds in bubble wrap and keep them from getting their own utensils in the cafeteria.
But it's one helluva scrape and bruise that can cause as much damage (death) as a tiny bit of peanut dust in the classroom.
It occurs to me, though, that the real reason for this is to keep the kids seated, so they are easier to control at lunchtime. You know, it gives the cafeteria monitors a good excuse for making their jobs easier.
gharkness at November 6, 2011 12:58 PM
I'm a former teacher, and while I am not saying that any of those wonderful little children would EVER do anything specifically to be unpleasant, would you indulge me in a hypothetical jaunt?
Kid: "Teacher, I need a spoon!"
Teacher: "Here's your spoon."
K: "Teacher, I need a fork!"
T: "Here's your fork."
K: "Teacher I need a napkin!"
T: "Here's your napkin."
Repeat ad nauseum.
The Original Kit at November 6, 2011 1:08 PM
When you can show me a death from a peanut allergy that having an EpiPen® still occurred, let me know. When you have to say to 98.7 of the population that they can't have a PB&J because 1.3% is effected by it you are stepping on their rights.
That is the same as saying that because 1% of the population have epilepsy you can't get a drivers license until you prove otherwise.
The point is that, in general, the rights of the majority outweigh the needs of the few. There are some exceptions that the minority has rights. But those are freedoms that are Constitutionally covered, such as the freedom of religion, speech, assembly, arms, etc. Freedom from peanuts is a personal responsibility.
Once you get that you are responsible for yourself and your ilk, and the nanny state doesn't care about you individually, then you will grow.
Jim P. at November 6, 2011 2:17 PM
So 10 years from now, graduation parties/ceremonies will have kids who instead of throwing their caps in the air, getting plastered etc. will all line up to get their own forks and straws. After appropriate testing and licensing of course.
Further proof that public schools are just jails for the youth.
Sio at November 6, 2011 2:44 PM
@gharkness there are very few known incidents of reactions of airborne peanut dust, much less topical contact, and none have been fatal. These have simply resulted in allergic reactions, not anaphylaxis, and involved concentrations not typically found outside of peanut processing facilities.
Your 100% death rate is nonsense.
What has been found to be more prevalent is that people with peanut protein sensitivity become hypervigilent to the presence of peanuts and exhibit a conditioned physiological response (i.e. they're not actually reacting to the peanuts). This is thought to be what motivates the erroneous belief that peanut allergies become more severe with cumulative exposure. Research on peanut odor and topical contact has confirmed that for the great majority of people with peanut allergies, these forms of exposure are harmless. So please don't go around spreading more myths about peanut allergy.
If someone were really so sensitive to the concentrations of peanut dust that might be found in a school cafeteria that they were likely to die, then they shouldn't be in any such setting at all. Schools can't reasonably be expected to offer such sterile conditions.
mrs P at November 7, 2011 5:46 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/06/treating_kids_l.html#comment-2747728">comment from mrs PNobody ever died of a peanut being near them when I was a kid. In fact, I had never really heard of peanut allergies until maybe the late 90s, if not later. Is this because peanut allergies started in the 1990s? Or because Mrs. P is right that the allergy is pretty much an allergy to being sensible about this?
Amy Alkon at November 7, 2011 5:52 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/06/treating_kids_l.html#comment-2747737">comment from Amy AlkonAnd remember "The Boy In The Plastic Bubble"? He lived in the bubble -- they didn't make the rest of the elementary school stop breathing. Are there really people who breathe in a peanut fume and have their heads blow up? I don't know -- I'm askin'.
Amy Alkon at November 7, 2011 5:54 AM
I rode my bike into a parked car while reading while riding my bicycle.
My 12 year old nephew was killed riding his bike without a helmet. He was sideswiped by a truck and hit his head on the curb where a helmet would have protected it. He would be 27 today.
Not all safety rules are nanny-state nonsense.
DrMaturin at November 7, 2011 7:41 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/06/treating_kids_l.html#comment-2748044">comment from DrMaturinSorry to hear that, DrMaturin.
A friend who's an emergency room doc ALWAYS wears a helmet, and I learned from him. (But, I'm 47 and we didn't have helmets except for baseball and football when I was a kid.)
Amy Alkon at November 7, 2011 7:45 AM
Sorry to hear that, DrMaturin.
Thanks, Amy. Yeah, it was pretty awful. Perhaps the worst part is that his mother allowed him to ride without a helmet and blames herself for his death. I realize there's controversy about the effectiveness of bike helmets but if you insist on kids wearing them and something terrible happens at least you don't have guilt on top of the grief.
DrMaturin at November 7, 2011 7:51 AM
A boy in my youth group as a teenager was severely allergic to peanuts, to the point that he couldn't have peanut butter touch his skin without a reaction. He could, however be in the same room as the rest of us eating pb&j, because the peanut "dust" didn't affect him.
Raw peanuts might have more dust, but schools, at least in the US, don't ever seem to have raw anything, let alone peanuts.
Jazzhands at November 7, 2011 8:47 AM
Regarding bike helmets.
About Judy Blume's book "Tiger Eyes":
The book was written in 1981. When Davey refuses to wear her helmet (which her Aunt Bitsy had ordered her to wear), would most adult readers of that time, in your opinion, see her act as ominous
and foolish, or would they follow the young reader's tendency to see Davey as starting to be aware of her relatives' paranoia and controlling behaviors? I myself can't help but wonder whether Blume herself was capable of seeing the act as reckless, given her general tendency towards navel-gazing. (After all, helmets, for bicyclists, were not considered that important back then, I believe, so the fact that Davey's parents had never told her to wear one hardly proves that they were foolish or particularly ignorant.) Of course, Bitsy eventually catches her in the act of biking without it and reads her the riot act, but I had the impression that was mainly to show the reader that Bitsy is observant and responsible, not necessarily smart or a great role model.
lenona at November 7, 2011 10:38 AM
@gharkness there are very few known incidents of reactions of airborne peanut dust, much less topical contact, and none have been fatal. These have simply resulted in allergic reactions, not anaphylaxis, and involved concentrations not typically found outside of peanut processing facilities.
Are you mad?
No the death rate isn't 100%. But anaphylaxis does occur. And I know my grandson can't be the only one, nor is he hypervigilant. He was six, for crying out loud. He didn't even KNOW he was allergic.
I really don't think it's "abuse" to disallow peanuts in a classroom. Unnecessary, perhaps, but "abuse" - laughable.
Research on peanut odor and topical contact has confirmed that for the great majority of people with peanut allergies, these forms of exposure are harmless. So please don't go around spreading more myths about peanut allergy
Please don't YOU!
I only know what I have seen. With my own eyes. So quit telling me about spreading myths. What I thought was that it was no big deal, because epinephrine would take care of it, and it does....for about 15 minutes and then it comes right back again. Repeatedly.
I guess I am supposed to be embarrassed because he didn't die?
Amy, when you were a kid, my niece was too. She, and her father, and her uncle, and several others in my family, all had peanut allergies (yes severe, but apparently, it's bad manners to say so here). I'm not being over-dramatic. Heck, I didn't even know about it until I grew up. Maybe it's just that with everything being in the news these days, the word gets around more, and the hype is extended.
gharkness at November 7, 2011 11:49 AM
@gharkness
You should take your nephew to an allergist then, because they'll be very interested in examining him.
Do you know what systemic anaphylaxis is? Can you differentiate this from a simple allergic reaction?
And what exactly occurred?
mrs P at November 7, 2011 1:17 PM
Wait a minute: So they're going to make these kids pee themselves if they happen to need to use the restroom during lunch? Assholes.
MonicaP at November 7, 2011 7:51 PM
Where did anyone use the word "abuse"?
My point is that I want the government out of my life, your life and the life of everyone else. You even mention how you damaged yourself as kid.
I'm saying that if 25%, or any significant number of people, children or adults, are repeatedly harmed by something while it is being used as intended, then maybe a public or government action may be needed. Some examples of overreaction in the past few years:
Can you see any trend in the list? They are trying to control every aspect of a person's life. The equality of outcome is not what I desire. The equality of opportunity is the point. I might be hurt along the way. So may your children or grandchildren. I don't want them to be hurt. But it happens. Wrapping them in swaddling cloth and not letting them learn is not the answer.
Jim P. at November 7, 2011 8:25 PM
The time to be outraged about this passed long ago - when schools became conveyor belts designed to churn out drones instead of thinkers.
Remember when you hated the boring prison of school and your teachers and parents told you to shut up and sit down and accept your fate?
That was the training for which you were enrolled.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at November 8, 2011 10:03 AM
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