I don't do the whole Black Friday thing, but it's kinda cranky to harsh on people for extreme holiday gestures.

Maybe they provide the kid with lots of love and support and guidance, but they also want him to have a nice TV. I still remember the year my mother went through a stupid amount of trouble to buy me a doll I wanted. It's a sweet memory.

Wrong answer, Amy. China's dead man walking. They just don't know it yet.

Agreed about China. They're sitting on top of a real estate bubble that will make ours look like soap suds.

Anyway, I'd rather stick a fork in my ear than stand in one of those lines and deal with the Black Friday crowds.

(Hi, Ariel! It's something called a conscience, babe!)

(☺)

My 17 year old son must be terribly deprived. I got him new windshield wipers. And some tools. And I did not go out to brave Black Friday. Nuh uh. No way.

What I don't get is, if the economy's so bad, how can customers DO something like this, even if prices ARE down a bit?

Anyway, I can't understand why so many parents (who may be educated, but are clearly not smart) think they're doing their kids any long-term favors by allowing them ANY visual electronics for their bedrooms. You wouldn't let them eat candy every day, I hope, so what's the difference?

(Some idiot once said he was sick of hearing about how too much TV is bad for kids' academic skills - and said he wanted to see a study that focuses on kids whose skills BENEFITED from lots of TV. Um, maybe the old studies simply covered kids across the board and concluded that most kids just don't benefit, so there's no point in gambling on your kids' futures?)

Not to mention that even time spent on reading is time spent sitting down, so any extra leisure time kids have clearly needs to be spent on more exercise - not more screen time!

Camping out in line starting on Wednesday morning? Good Lord.

When I was a kid I needed Raquel Welch and my parents wouldn't have waited in line five minutes for her.

What a 17 year old really needs is not a TV or any other thing that makes the parental home overly comfortable. Why make it so they have everything they want? They'll never leave!

My son is in his last year of high school. I told him I don't care what he does upon graduation as long as he is productive. Get a job? Sure! I'll make sure the old truck is roadworthy. Volunteer full-time to build houses for Habitat for Humanity? Go for it! Join the military? I'll help get him prepared for the ASVAB and look into various job titles available. Go to tech school or college? Outstanding! Backpack around Europe? Figure out a way to pay for it and I'll help him get his passport. Sit around in his underwear playing xbox and eating Cheetos? Ain't happening.

Ah. I'm on the Best Buy mailing list. That TV, which appears for ~$200 on the COVER PAGE, appears for $499.99 INSIDE the link.

Oopsy.

Good on her if they honor it.

And, by the way, "the economy" is still told "go to hell, I can have what I want" by those still with a good credit card. The disease of mistaking credit for wealth is still with us.

I found something else that makes me wonder what we're growing as a people. From a CNN article, "Violence Mars Black Friday":

"Violence marred Black Friday shopping in at least seven states, including California, where police say a woman doused fellow shoppers with pepper spray in a bid to snag a discounted video game console.

The incident happened Thursday night at a Walmart in the Porter Ranch area of Los Angeles, said Officer Robert Chavira, a police spokesman.

About 15 people were exposed to the spray. Los Angeles firefighters treated them at the scene and no one required hospitalization, Chavira said.

The woman was trying to get an Xbox video game console, CNN affiliate KABC reported, citing police. She was able to pay for her purchases and leave the store before police arrived, Chavira said."

Two things: you're not getting away with doing that to me; you really ought to think about what the police can do for you in more serious cases.

Looks like Amy's got a new "fan"! Jermaine Purkey, Earl Forester, Andrew Kiger. One liner snarks with unresolved links. A little mellow for either BOTU or Chuck(le). Someone new?

I had to brave it this morning sadly. Thankfully it wasn't busy at all by 10am at the local office depot. Got a new printer for my sister as her old one is slowly dying and wont copy/scan. Merry Christmas 1 month early. Spent an hour last night getting her wireless secured.

SOmetimes I do black friday, some years I don't. When I do, it's for fun. There's really no difference in these shoppers and people who wait in insane lines for the superbowl or concert tickets.

This year the stores had their stuff online, so that's what i did. Easy.

What kids need is wisdom about handling money.

A couple months ago I froze my credit... Because Amy told us to. She told us to do it two years ago... But damn it, she's not the boss of me, unnerstand? I'll do it whenever I damn well get around to it, capiche?

It's a good thing to do. I feel safer. And my credit rating was described by one lender as "Snow White with Apple Cheeks, Pearl Teeth and Firm Breasts in a Cocktail Dress"... An asset worth protecting.

Know why? Because shopping is no fun. I can't understand why people would want to get out of bed early to do it on the busiest day of the year, as if that meant doing it well.


So again, kids should be taught to do it well.

This may be one of the best blog posts of the year, especially for a magazine outlet.

But did the seventeen year old kid pull out his pepper spray and knuckledusters and FIGHT for that television, paying the price of true ownership on the field of battle??!! He won't appreciate the property unless he takes it by conquest, as MEN Once Did.
(Really really looking forward to getting Skyrim.)

You'd never catch me at one of those Black Friday sales but I know a few people who love them. The ones I know who love it are shoppers who have the money to shop and love feeling like they're getting a bargain so I leave the judgment out. For the most part they have good kids who do normal kid stuff so if they want to buy their kid a tv, what do I care? Its their time they're wasting, not mine.

I don't have a tv in my bedroom. My daughter does and I don't think she's turned it on once since I bought it for her 2 years ago. My sons have one in their room but not to watch tv. They have an XBox and it doesn't really keep them from living productive lives. I guess its a problem for some, but not in my house. Still, as much as I am not made of money, I will still never camp out for a baragain.

Pinsky says shopping can be thrill-seeking behavior... Like drugs or weird sex or extreme sports. A transaction is a risk, and that goes for any organism. Hence the stereotype of the over-rewarded Beverly Hills housewife who goes out on a sunny afternoon and spends crazy sums of money on bullshit merchandise from Rodeo Drive... She's wasting her life and she knows it, but she's trying to tickle her animal soul and get it jump-started again... Without actually getting a job.

I'm more of a scuba, or cabernet, or weird sex guy, m'self. Black Friday is for retail's alcoholics, and these are not my people.

I bought naught.

I took my 17 year old out for a drive so he can improve on driving the old manual truck. Then we parked and walked our puppy on the wetland trail for an hour and watched the trumpeter swans.

Life is good.

I was always the 17 year old kid with all the material wealth I could ask for. My gift at 16? A bunch of Chanel stuff.

Anyways all I ever really wanted was someone to teach me the ropes and provide some kind of guidance, and rules.

Having all the material items you can ask for is not at all that great, trust me. Then again, I DO look good in Chanel.

When I was seventeen, my parents bought me a guitar. It was the most influential gift I ever received.

> It was the most influential gift I ever received.

Influencing you how?

To love music? Respect musicians?

To pursue a career in music?

To pursue a career in financial services?

Paraphrase.

My daughter, who is 17, told me yesterday that all she wants for Christmas is a record player and a few dresses.

But, actually, she already has a TV.

I have no idea where to find a good record player. It's so funny that they're back in style.

I loathe shopping, hate it with a passion. Several years ago I started ordering as much as I could online. There are still a few things that I pick up for my daughters and grandsons at the brick and mortar stores. But for the most part, my daughters' holiday gift is cash so they can buy what they want/need in the style they want (they stopped wearing what I bought, so I quit shopping for them). They learned early how to stretch a dollar so they get a lot of bang for their buck and they actually enjoy shopping. Still not sure why the shopping gene missed me, but I'm ok with that.

@LS, last year I picked up a record player for my daughter at Costco for right at $100. It has a CD player and an iPod jack. The sound is pretty good considering it doesn't have external speakers (although you can hook some up).

I prefer shopping at rummage and yard sales - for books and humble but useful gifts for kids, such as a box of dominoes or craft supplies. Nothing like the thrill of stumbling over something nice, cheap and UNEXPECTED instead of ordering it or getting it from some big chain store. (Even WalMart - I'm guessing - can't beat yard sale prices.)

My father knows how to get decent electronics at yard sales too - it saves him plenty on necessities.

"My 17 year old son must be terribly deprived. I got him new windshield wipers. And some tools. "

My dad gave me a fully stocked toolbox from Sears when I was 16. It was one of the best presents I ever received. I still have the toolbox and some of the tools.

Some reports I've seeing suggest that this year's Black Friday contained a lot of lookie-lus and very few buyers. The local HH Gregg here apparently did not sell out of the flat-screens that they had on special. I'm starting to wonder if Black Friday has jumped the shark.

Kristen: Still, as much as I am not made of money, I will still never camp out for a baragain.

Why? The drinks weren't strong enough the first time?

My dad gave me a fully stocked toolbox from Sears when I was 16. It was one of the best presents I ever received. I still have the toolbox and some of the tools.

My son is in a diesel technology tech high school program. If he continues in either the industry or on to a tech college program he will need his own tools. 3-5K worth (we have a list).

We have been buying the tools on the list for almost a year. New, used and a rollaround tool chest too. He's about 2/3 of the way there.

I want him to have the goods when he is out job-shopping. He's already had a couple of offers so he is on the right track.

@LauraGr

Depending on what part of the country you're in: Go check the out the commercial flea markets in you're area. The individual outside sellers (not the ones inside) sometimes have fantastic deals on tools.

A lot of times they don't realize what they have.

Good quality tools are a great gift for a teenager, even just for hobby/home maintenance stuff, not necessarily trades track. Show me the TV you'll still be watching in 15 years. Most of my power tools and basic wrenches, etc, go back that far and they're fine. I have three pieces of furniture in my house built with them. In true engineering style, the finish is shoddy but they're sturdy and built to last.

No, my dear, he really doesn't need that TV.

> (we have a list)

You are turning into my favorite blogcomment-mom

For goodness sakes. Of course no one "needs" a TV, but most of us have one and enjoy using it. And if you're in the market for one and have the opportunity to save several hundred dollars, then why not? It's actually a very practical gift for the average 17 year old about to go to college--he can take it with him to his dorm and use it for years, whereas a set of power tools are more likely to sit in mom and dad's garage until he moves into his own place.

And I've never been Black Friday shopping, but I know a lot of people who seem to enjoy it as a tradition with family and friends. I imagine that for most of them it's probably not so much about the savings as it is the experience, energy, and camaraderie. These are probably the same type of people who like camping out for concert tickets, basketball seats, or movie premieres. Sounds that's like the case with the woman in the article.

Shannon, we're trying to cluck over here... Don't ruin it for us by being sensible.

For goodness sakes. Of course no one "needs" a TV, but most of us have one and enjoy using it. And if you're in the market for one and have the opportunity to save several hundred dollars, then why not? It's actually a very practical gift for the average 17 year old about to go to college--he can take it with him to his dorm and use it for years,
_______________________

Kids need to avoid certain things even more than adults do, no matter how upsetting that may be. Junk food is one example. Not to mention the desire most parents have to see a return on their investment - such as a college kid who actually prefers studying to watching TV and getting mediocre grades, or even a preteen who prefers useful hobbies to passive, useless ones.

As the Frugal Zealot (Amy Dacyczyn) once wrote, a lot of adults who were out of work in the 1990s wouldn't be in such dire straits if they had spent their 20s and 30s building up their marketable skills in their spare time instead of wasting it on mindless fun. She said (not verbatim): "Useful hobbies can be fun or boring, just as useless hobbies can be fun or boring. When so many of us have such tight schedules, why not choose the hobbies that are both fun and useful?"

The point is, this type of old-fashioned habit has to start at a young age. Too many parents don't grasp that a child's work ethic can be shaky if they're surrounded by adults who live for mindless activities on weekends and never express any enjoyment in their work, paid or unpaid.

And while even yard-saling can be profitable if you know how to buy and sell and then DO it, it's not necessarily a marketable skill the way carpentry is. Or learning to fix computers better than even your friends can.