My thinking is what the airline did is unsafe and illegal and he should press charges.

"If you don't like touching other people, then pay for first class."

This guy is just in denial. Lots of seriously overweight people are, thinking that others are responsible for their problem and effects.

Don't know that I actually agree with 'beanathome' boy, but I can say this:

I'm 6'6", 300 lbs, and I can fit within the armrests. No, it isn't the most comfortable (it wasn't all that comfortable when I was more fit, either), but I don't spill out onto the other seats.

Of course, even 20+ years ago, when I was fit, I still weighed 260, so a lot of it, in my case, is just a large frame and a few extra muscles.

I will say, if you can't lower the armrests, and buckle the belt without a bungee cord, you should be buying two seats (or a large box in cargo).

And, contrary to beano boy, if a relatively normal sized person can't sit down and relax in a seat without the 'arm of ham' hanging out in their space, then, perhaps, hambeast should have gotten an extra seat.

♫ "They call it Blubber,
Blubber the Problem of Wonder.
For no one, you see,
is fatter than he..." ♫

;-)

Take up the space beyond the armrests bordering your seat? Buy the space beyond the armrests.

I'd take it a step further. Yes I DO have a right not to be touched by a stranger, and no, it's not about being prejudice against people, "of size". It's about not rubbing thighs (which I find very personal) or arms with a complete stranger for seven hours. If your arms, blubbery or otherwise, invade my space, much like Amy, I'll say something about it. You get the armrest. If you go past that, you are stealing part of the seat that I paid for.

And beanathome is naive if they believe the only reason the airline isn't "doing something," is because no wrong was committed.

But if the person is--OMG--"spilling over into your seat" just like someone might on a bus . . . seriously. It's the cheap seats.

Did you know that seats are now actually wider than they were in public places (like theaters and such) back in the 1940's?

Sure, it's the cheap seats - and if you don't fit in one, you are the one who needs to pay for business class.

"People of size" - such PC bullshit. Fat is the word.

Airlines need to install a sizing device at check-in, like they do for carry-on luggage.

Good fences make good neighbors.

In that spirit I don't want anyone's blubber oozing over my fence.

Expanding on the above point by Jazzhands,
Yes I DO have a right not to be touched by a stranger, and no, it's not just about aircraft seats. If the same Person of Corpulence walked across the lobby of the bank or the mall and plopped his ample abdominal extensions onto me that would be simple assault. If a person does not care to note the difference between brushing against someone in the hallway and a full body blubber compress then that person is too wrapped up in their victim status to be reasonable.

(Simple assault can be distinguished without the intent of injury upon another person. wikipedia rocks.)

What struck me most about this is how the airline suggested that the thin person buy two seats to ensure enough space. How can anyone know in advance whether they'll be crowded next to a person "of size"? Only the person "of size" knows (or should know) whether they'll be spilling over the armrests, and therefore, the burden of purchasing an additional seat should be theirs.

New business idea-Grande Airlines. Double-wide seats at a double-wide price. They'd make a killing! They could even double-size their lavatory.

The person who cannot fit in their seat should have to buy 2 seats, not the person being inconvenienced. US Airways has just made the growing list of lines I will NEVER fly. So far, Southwest gets all my love and money.

I'm with you, Amy, no more US Airways. If I bought a seat on a flight, it's my seat and I should be the only one in it. Can you imagine having to shove you arm under somebody else's backside to get to your seatbelt? ridiculous!

"There is no reason whatsoever to believe this man's story that he could not possibly sit in his own seat. I am a "person of size," and I've dealt with these people who react the moment that they see me. I fit in the seat just fine--thank you."

Right, so because you fit into an airline seat, clearly every single "person of size" (gag) must be able to as well. Nevermind the fact that you've never even seen the obese man in question, and he very well could be 100 or 200 pounds heavier than you or carry his weight completely differently.

This attitude seems pretty common among the "health at every size crowd." You'll get someone saying "I'm a size 16 and I run marathons, so clearly you can be healthy at any size" and it's like, no one is saying that a size 16 can't be healthy; we're talking about a size 32 who can't walk up a flight of stairs, let alone run a marathon.

I kept having to re-read that to make sure that US Airways spokesturd was talking about the displaced man rather than the man of remarkable displacement.
The next seat he procures may well be hers.

Also, on the buying two seats thing: wouldn't you actually need to buy 3 seats, since you're spilling equally into the seats on either side? Or would you just sit on the crack in the middle? It seems like it would make more sense just to upgrade to first class where the whole seat is larger. I can also see where someone might be annoyed at buying that extra seat when the airplane isn't even full, but maybe airlines could offer a refund in that case.

> what the airline did is unsafe

NicoleK again leads from the front.

Shannon, I think Southwest has exactly that procedure - if you need two seats, you buy two, and if there's empty seats on the plane you get your money back for one of them.

That said: I don't necessarily believe Berkowitz's story in its entirety. IF he couldn't fasten his seatbelt for takeoff, there would have been no takeoff, and I haven't encountered a flight attendant in the last 10 years who would let a passenger stand in the galley longer than it took to be in line for the bathroom. I don't doubt that he was seated next to a large man, but the details here seem fishy and I wonder if the reporter pressed Berkowitz on exactly how all these airline (and federal) rules were broken.

"I fit in the seat just fine--thank you... (and, no, I don't "touch" others--I can sit with the arm rest down--though my blubbery arms might "invade your space")."

If your "blubbery arms" (your words- you would know, I guess) invade other peoples' space, then no- you don't fit in the seat just fine.

"There is no reason whatsoever to believe this man's story that he could not possibly sit in his own seat. I am a "person of size," and I've dealt with these people who react the moment that they see me."

"These people"? You mean people who are asking for nothing more than to be able to sit in the seat they paid for without being squeezed into the asile or against the window?

Based on the linked blog:

"They would not permit me to sit in their jump seats, and fully acknowledged the mistake by their gate agent, in allowing this individual on plane without requiring him to purchase and occupy two seats,” he said."

it looks like the airline did admit to making an error in allowing the fat passenger to purchase just one seat, but they seem to expect their customers to suck it up (in more ways than one) rather than actually dealing with the problem themselves.

Shannon, I'm even going to disagree with regarding the size 16. The ability to run a marathon doesn't mean you have a healthy body composition.

Only in exceptional cases (e.g., VERY tall) will a woman who is a size 16 have a healthy body fat percentage.

Kevin is completely right. Nothing about this story rings true.

Every time southwest gets some bad press for forcing carb addicts to buy 2 seats I immediately send them an email that I will continue to fly Southwest because of that policy. I am sending US air an e-mail that I will not fly them because they don't defend their paying customers.

beanathome, a question: What the heck do you do when three gravitationally gifted humans share the same row?

(Once upon a time I was stuck in the middle seat between two women whose combined gravitational gifts occupied about a third of my seat. Yucktastic.)

If I was the god of airlines, my policy would be simple. If you need a seat belt extender, you can have one.

For the price of the neighboring seat.

> Nothing about this story rings true.

Here's what rings true: The resentment the rest of us feel when overweight strangers invade personal space. We resent having to be patient with other people's poorly-managed BODIES.

Y'know, I'm a middle-aged, 5'7" white guy. And over these little decades of mine, I've seen Americans get ever-more skittish about physical contact, and hygiene, and the passing company of strangers in intimate spaces. In the popular stereotype, old white guys are worst of all, because we control society through a secret committee with special hand signals on the street and a wink at the bank. And of course, this skittishness is almost always sexual: Old white guys are all sexual perverts! Did you hear about Penn State?!??

(Sometimes, I'm partly cool with that last part: I don't particularly enjoy the company of children, so it's OK with me if society wants to promise a little extra distance from them... Especially since the least-rational, most-obnoxious parents are more likely to suffer this paranoia. Sure, screechy lady— Keep your little seat-kicking snot-bucket away from me. Not a problem.)

But I fit comfortably in a coach seat. More to the point, I'm polite. I don't ask other people to be patient with me. I show up on time, move briskly and attentively through tight spaces, and don't bother others with the gases, liquids and solids required to sustain me... Not even the Cabernet.

So I resent it when a stranger, having forced me into physical contact for several hours, plays eye games as if to suggest that I share his frustration with the airline.

I do not.

I resent rhetoric that suggest the intrusion is not as personal as it could be without taking my clothes off.

It is.

I resent the idea that for reasons never fully explained, this is an intrusion which, doggone it, we're all just going to have to get used to.

No.

(This might be worth tracking.)

So the devil is obviously in the details in this story... just how big was the guy? We don't know. I have seen people who were nowhere close to fitting in a coach seat. On the last flight I was on, there was a guy who was at least 400 lbs. He had an aisle seat; they raised the armrest between the seat and the aisle for him, and he sat with one butt cheek taking up the seat and the other one hanging out into the aisle.

You don't need to be 400 lbs. to have difficulty with a coach seat, though. I'm 6', 220 lbs; my ass fits in the seat fine, but my shoulders, just barely. I've had the experience before of being in the middle seat between two other not-overweight-but-broad-shouldered gents, and I had to sit at an angle the whole flight because there was just no way to wedge all of our shoulders in. One reason I usually get window seats is because there's a couple of extra inches of shoulder room between the seat and the wall. And I've learned ways to fold myself into a pretty small space when necessary.

And this: "What struck me most about this is how the airline suggested that the thin person buy two seats to ensure enough space." This is typical customer service for US Airways. I avoid that airline at all costs.

Kevin is completely right. Nothing about this story rings true.

While I don't really disagree, I would like to point out that it's trivial to avoid fastening your seatbelt during takeoff. (stupid, but trivial). The attendants don't really look, and you can fake it if you really want to.

Also, it's entirely possible to put both arm rests down, and still spill out below the armrests. Except in the front row of some aircraft, the armrests do NOT go all the way down to make a full divider between the seats.

Folks, if you are going to fly, it's necessary to learn to get along with people in close quarters, which includes not taking up more space than you paid for. Sometimes this involves extremely uncomfortable flights for the obese person (or buying an extra seat) but it's just not right to expect anyone else to suffer for the obese person's condition. (Notice I am not assigning blame to fat people...read Gary Taubes before you start pointing fingers.)

I don't doubt he had to sit next to a fat person, but the seven-hour standing thing just doesn't ring true on any flight I've been on in 10 years.

Berkowitz obviously contacted this consumer blog with his story (which has now been retold on CNN and ABC News; CNN seemed less credulous about the tale, too).

In that seven hours of standing, did he think to take a cellphone picture? Seems to me if you were planning to make a case to get a ticket refund, you'd want some visual proof.

He asked for a refund and got a $200 voucher. If he's still unhappy, I'd suggest he take it to small claims court; my parents took an airline to small claims once and got everything they asked for. But they had documentation to prove their case.

I've noticed over the years that flying inside the tin can shoved in with lotsa others either brings out the most accommodating people in the world, or the most bloody minded. You know the kind "are you breathin' my air?!?"

As with Cousin Dave, I'm a good 2 feet across the shoulders [25"] and I take great pains to not impose on others... but I got stuck in a row with 2 other burly men, and one guy was just a BASTARD, so we accommodated him, but it was just never enough, and he complained the whole flight. He was in the middle, and both of us offered to switch with him, but he refused. What? somebody is going to give you a window to make you happy and you refuse? He gave the young mother and kid a row ahead a hard time... to which I played games with the kid and had him giggling in 5min. {I have 2 snot buckets myself, so I know how to make that work}

There are a ton of ways to look at this, but some people just won't make it work... Cridster is entirely right though, about imposing on other people, so we may always try to find a way out of this if we are polite. In this case it may have just been 2 bloody minded people who couldn't figure it out.

It is going to get worse, since airlines are definitely maximizing their loads more, full flights are much more likely than they used to be.

To which I say... yeah, Unless I'm flying across country or the world, I'm no longer likely to fly, it really isn't worth my time. But then at work we have a travel moritorium anyway, it's amazing what you can do with a telecon, and sharing software.

I am another one who easily fits between the arm rests with shoulders in the neighbors. I just did a little web searching and found an interesting claim - that in the UK some some research group found that 2/3 of men's shoulders were wider than the seats. The claimed a study but I was not able to find it.

I think the root of the problem is sitting space cannot be sold in a fine enough increment. You need inch? Have to buy another seat.

What happens if two obese people are next to each other?

Cousin Dave - you took the words right out of my mouth. It is not just fat people who cause problems. The economy class seats are meant for short skinny people. Anyone who is over 5'8'' has a problem with economy class seats. Put 3 6' fit men(or women) on the adjacent seats and all 3 of them will be adjusting to accomodate each other in the space available(like the middle guy leaning forward while the other 2 are leaning back or the other way round or each guy sitting at an uncomfortable angle)

Maybe airlines should start a fee schedule according to weight and girth. It would also be necessary to compare known seat width available with ass width of any particular boarding. Ultimately the TSA perverts could measure passenger asses while they were feeling them up. I envision a large caliper calibrated in axe handles. The axe handle scale is a known measure for defining female rear ends.

Maybe airlines should start a fee schedule according to weight and girth. It would also be necessary to compare known seat width available with ass width of any particular boarding. Ultimately the TSA perverts could measure passenger asses while they were feeling them up. I envision a large caliper calibrated in axe handles. The axe handle scale is a known measure for defining female rear ends.

"The axe handle scale is a known measure for defining female rear ends." Roger.

dude, and axe handle is 36" you sure yuou want to talk hips that wide?

Why not? 36-24-36 used to be considered the sexiest measurements. Maybe you're thinking 46?

Those are the measurements around, not width.

The axe handle scale measures width… as in she’s 2 axe handles, etc.

I disagree with fatty, and agree with Amy. Fatty is rationalizing. Unlike the bus, people expect that when they've paid for an airline seat, the space between the armrests is 'theirs'.

"I am a "person of size," and I've dealt with these people who react the moment that they see me."

If you REGULARLY (as is the case) get comments from people that you're 'spilling into their space' (and your blubber is regularly touching them) then YOU are the problem.

There are significant differences between a bus ride and an airline, e.g. a bus-ride is usually short, it's usually much much cheaper than an airline ticket, you don't eat a meal with someone's fat arms hanging over onto your plate.

If I had my druthers, I'd rather deal with spillover bulk than a seatmate with body odor or halitosis.