Just Say Neigh?
Why shouldn't you be allowed to eat horse meat? Justin Juozapavicius writes for the AP that horse meat could soon be offered for sale in the US.
If you're against eating horse meat, is it because they're cuter than cows? Because you just aren't used to the idea? Or is there some other reason?
UPDATE: Via @NorCalCazadora, this NYT piece, "Slaughter of Horses Goes On, Just Not in U.S."
I tend to think of horses as being a lot like dogs, personality-wise. I wouldn't eat a dog or a horse.
ahw at November 30, 2011 11:10 AM
Do you think others should be prohibited from eating it?
Amy Alkon at November 30, 2011 11:13 AM
I'm against eating horses or cows. But who cares. There's more important stuff to worry about now, like this:
http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/national-defense-authorization-act-indefinite-detention-citizens/5365/
NicoleK at November 30, 2011 11:31 AM
Of course not. Let market participants decide what should be sold.
People make sentimental buying decisions all the time, refusing to buy horse meat because it'a a noble beast is really no different than refusing to buy non-organic.
Tyler at November 30, 2011 11:31 AM
I don't think it shouldn't be allowed, but I would personally not eat horse meat because I've had horses as pets, and it just doesn't appeal to me.
Of course, I think cows are adorable, and I feel kind of like a turd for eating them (or any animal really). I was a vegetarian for 10 years, but began eating meat again because I read the science and decided it was the best/healthiest choice for me.
What I do wish would be outlawed is the inhumane factory farms. I don't think eating meat is bad or morally wrong, but I struggle with animals suffering for it.
Angie at November 30, 2011 11:52 AM
The French sell horsemeat for human consumption, don't they, Amy?
When I was a kid my mom brought home some ground horsemeat for our dog, I thought it was hamburger meat and made a burger out of it. Couldn't taste any real difference.
Robert at November 30, 2011 11:55 AM
Whether or not I am okay with chowing down on Mr. Ed shouldn't be an issue. Legalize horsemeat, and let the individual decide whether or not to eat it. I can't imagine why anything should be illegal if it isn't hurting anyone else.
Patrick at November 30, 2011 11:57 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/30/just_say_neigh.html#comment-2819072">comment from RobertMy friend M. once secretly fed us horsemeat in France. It was a long time ago, but I think it tasted like salami. And I think cows are super-cute, but not so cute that I won't eat them!
Amy Alkon at November 30, 2011 11:59 AM
I love horses and dogs, and would never eat either. Then again I don't eat pork or veal.
But I am pretty sure we export live horses to be slaughtered elsewhere, so if that is the case, I would prefer to see them humanely slaughtered here.
Eric at November 30, 2011 12:08 PM
I think it should be legal. I wouldn't eat the two I own - and I would have to think a long time about eating one on purpose.
You don't name something you are going to eat. My friends that raise a cow each year for food either don't name or name it food or dinner. They don't recommend I do it since they know I am a wimp and make a pet out of every animal I get near.
I was talking to farmer when I was buying horse supplies at Fleet Farm. I asked him if he had horses. He said no, I don't feed what I don't eat.
Dave B at November 30, 2011 12:14 PM
Animal -- Food Name
cow -- Beef
pig -- Pork
deer -- venison
horse -- (any suggestions?)
dog -- (ugh!)
cat -- (ugh!)
oppossum - (?)
chicken -- Chicken
turkey -- Turkey
duck -- Duck
salmon -- Salmon
shrimp -- Shrimp
I seems that birds and fish are sufficiently alien that we will eat them without renaming them.
Large mammals are somewhat cute and interesting, so we need another name.
Dogs and cats are our friends, we aren't hungry enough. I hear that the Chinese are hungry enough. I hear that oppossum are eaten in the Southeast.
Andrew_M_Garland at November 30, 2011 12:19 PM
I know that a lot of people believe that there are parasites in horse that make it unfit for human consumption. I don't know how true that is, or where it ranks in relation to possible parasites in other animals. I think it should absolutely be legal to purchase and eat, because the Fed doesn't have the right to tell people what they can and can't eat.
Regulation to ensure safe food handling and processing is good. Regulation based on sentiment or prejudice is NOT.
The Original Kit at November 30, 2011 12:36 PM
I hear that oppossum are eaten in the Southeast.
So are gators and turtles. So what? I won't eat horse either, because I used to own a couple, but if someone else wants to, who am I to tell them they can't? People who like deer don't tell me I can't eat venison. I wouldn't listen anyway.
Flynne at November 30, 2011 12:36 PM
Andrew writes:
cow -- Beef
pig -- Pork
deer -- venison
horse -- (any suggestions?)
dog -- (ugh!)
cat -- (ugh!)
oppossum - (?)
Horse is "horsemeat." It's always been that way. It doesn't need a name; it has one. If that's too unpalatable, you could try doing something with the Latin word for horse: Equus.
Dogmeat and catmeat also have names already. In the U.S., it's known as "Chinese Take Out."
Opossum? The rednecks call it "Chicken of the Trees."
Patrick at November 30, 2011 12:45 PM
I've never had venison before. Is it any good?
Patrick at November 30, 2011 12:46 PM
Anyone for whale?
I wouldn't eat horse meat, but I draw the line at using the power of the state to tell others what they can or cannot eat. (OK, except for cannibalism. I do have limits.)
MarkD at November 30, 2011 12:47 PM
Patrick,
Venison is OK, but consider that wild animals usually don't tend to be fat, and fat gives the meat its flavor. It can be good, if not overcooked, and sufficient spices are used. It's a poor substitute for beef in my opinion, but it does make good jerky.
(I'm not a hunter, but I work with some.)
MarkD at November 30, 2011 12:50 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/30/just_say_neigh.html#comment-2819183">comment from PatrickOpossum? The rednecks call it "Chicken of the Trees."
Made me laugh again today, Patrick.
Amy Alkon at November 30, 2011 12:54 PM
Marcus Licinius Crassus: Do you eat oysters?
Antoninus: When I have them, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: Do you eat snails?
Antoninus: No, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: Do you consider the eating of oysters to be moral and the eating of snails to be immoral?
Antoninus: No, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: Of course not. It is all a matter of taste, isn't it?
Antoninus: Yes, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: And taste is not the same as appetite, and therefore not a question of morals.
Antoninus: It could be argued so, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: My robe, Antoninus. My taste includes both snails and oysters.
Antoninus at November 30, 2011 1:03 PM
Horses go right with dogs and cats and fish eggs in the "only if I'm starving" category. I owned a horse, love them, they are highly intelligent and self-aware. I've not spent time around cows, they may be too and if I did know them better I might not eat them either. Legal? Why not, I suppose. Why isn't dog legal? I despise factory farms, and so don't support them with my money. If you've ever driven through Dumass, Texas, the feed-lot stench is enough to turn you vegan.
momof4 at November 30, 2011 1:05 PM
What? You laughed at that, Amy, but you didn't like "Chinese Take Out"? I guess that one is too factual to be funny.
Oh, and my bad about using the term "Redneck." The P.C. term is "Appalachian American." Although according to "Family Guy," it's "Country Music Star."
Mark, thanks for the information. I do love jerky. It's a good, healthy and PORTABLE snack that doesn't need refrigeration!
Patrick at November 30, 2011 1:05 PM
Anyone for whale?
I've seen it sold at street markets in Norway. Very, very red, and no blubber in evidence. Not sure about the status of "endangered species." This was back in 1999, so perhaps it wasn't as politically incorrect back then as it is now.
I have also eaten horsemeat in Paris. Very lean, a bit tough, but there's no reason I can think of it shouldn't be legal, as long as it's clean, and I would really rather see a clean death than the living death cattle suffer at CAFO's.
I agree about never naming your food. We had our pet rabbits, and then we had the nameless ones.
All this talk...that reminds me to get the venison out of the freezer and ready it for the sous vide. That should make it nice and tender, and the sous vide will keep it from being overcooked.
gharkness at November 30, 2011 1:12 PM
Clearly there aren't enough Game of Thrones fans here... I fully expected comments about the Dothraki.
I have no issues with the concept of horsemeat. I do have pets, though, so I can't swallow - ha - the concept of catmeat or dogmeat.
momof4 -- Feedlots don't smell nearly as bad a pig farms. (And it's spelled Dumas.)
Jill at November 30, 2011 1:15 PM
No, I don't think it should be illegal- I just wouldn't eat them. Too pet-like. (I don't want other people telling me what I can and can't eat.)
ahw at November 30, 2011 1:18 PM
Selling and eating horsemeat? Oh, hell, why not? I don't think I'm disagreeing with the general theme here.
As far as eating something you've named -- Boring Anecdote Time! Both my parents grew up on farms in the 40s and 50s. My mom told me that kids in 4H clubs would spend an entire year raising animals, steers and such, from infancy, to be judged in the next county fair. After that, the animals would be sold at market, to be turned into steaks and wallets and such. Mom said it was pretty hard on the kids, who'd grown attached to the creatures. And as for Dad -- there was a tame pig that was allowed to wander their farmyard. They named it Elmer. Dad said it was an intelligent animal, and as they later found out, quite tasty.
Old RPM Daddy at November 30, 2011 1:34 PM
A horse walks into a bar. The bartender says "Why the long face?"
clinky at November 30, 2011 1:37 PM
If God hadn't wanted us to eat meat, then why did he/she make it so damned tasty?
But seriously, I don't think I would have any problem trying horse meat. I've eaten rabbit, and they're way more adorable than horses, in my opinion. I won't eat veal on principle because of the horrible way the calves are kept, but that's more an issue of humane treatment than anything else. The rest comes down to what we're accustomed to.
The Den Mother at November 30, 2011 1:46 PM
"Clearly there aren't enough Game of Thrones fans here... I fully expected comments about the Dothraki."
Well, last year I had a probably-illegal horsemeat dinner in NYC and in attendance was a woman who had grown up as a Kazakh pastoralist. I'm pretty sure the Dothraki are based on such Eastern horse pastoralist. Like them, her culture relies on the horse for everything. Horse meat isn't an everyday thing, as horses are valuable for transportation and milk as well. But her culture clearly venerates horses in every way. I don't think many Westerners can conceive of the idea that people could love horses as much as they do and still eat them, but that's the way they do things. She had tears in her eyes as she ate the horse, as it brought back so many memories of home.
The horse we had was from Quebec and I thought it was quite delicious, but it was prepared by fancy chefs who definitely know how to bring out the best in meat. I had some horse in Sweden too and thought it was too tough.
Melissa at November 30, 2011 1:48 PM
Horse is pretty far down on my list of preferred food. Pretty much a tie with snails and liver. They are all in the "not unless I am starving" category.
LauraGr at November 30, 2011 2:03 PM
My mother's second husband wanted to get us a whole bunch of horsemeat. Mom pitched a fit because supposedly it fucks with the effectiveness of antibiotics.
I have no idea whether or not that's true, but if it isn't I'm game for trying it. I'm also curious about goat, having had a Jamaican client who was forever giving me goat receipes.
deathbysnoosnoo at November 30, 2011 2:14 PM
Oh, and my bad about using the term "Redneck." The P.C. term is "Appalachian American."
And that's wrong, too.
"Appalachian American" is a hillbilly.
"Redneck" is any white man who works manual labor outdoors and acquires a sunburned neck in the south.
"Cracker" is similar to redneck, and is more specific to Florida and Georgia.
"Coonass" is a Cajun from Lousianna.
The hillbilly most likely doesn't care what you call him so long as you leave him alone. Almost all of the rest will proudly wear the moniker.
And invite you in for a little Brunswick stew.
I R A Darth Aggie at November 30, 2011 2:27 PM
Buffalo is yummy- I've had it as burgers and sausages.
Worst thing I've ever eaten: Haggis. And it was in a setting where I had to eat it all and ask for seconds.
Eric at November 30, 2011 2:35 PM
Amy, that linked article is not about preventing people from eating horsemeat. Even when it was legal to slaughter horses in the US there was no demand for the meat domestically except in pet food. Most horsemeat was exported.
I hope they get the slaughterhouses up and running soon. Humanely operated, of course. There needs to be an outlet for old, lame, mean and unsalable horses. Currently there is nothing except a several hundred dollar veterinarian bill plus an additional fee to a rendering company for haulaway. It costs well over three hundred dollars per horse around here.
LauraGr at November 30, 2011 2:39 PM
"I tend to think of horses as being a lot like dogs, personality-wise. I wouldn't eat a dog or a horse."
So a dog is a horse is a man?
"I asked him if he had horses. He said no, I don't feed what I don't eat."
His children must be very thin.
Ahh, nothing like the partially-carbonized flesh of a fellow mammal!
I wonder about someone who balks at this or that mammal - but eats oysters. You DO know what the oyster eats, right? (Hint: collecting them, and clams, is banned where the coliform count is too high.)
Radwaste at November 30, 2011 2:41 PM
Blame William the Conqueror.
Beef and pork got their names from the old French of the Normans.
The conquered Saxons raised cattle, but the ruling Normans ate boef.
According to the OED, "venison" was generally applied to any wild animal hunted for food (deer, rabbit, etc.), but has come to be applied exclusively to deer.
Conan the Grammarian at November 30, 2011 3:30 PM
My hunter friend corrected me when I assumed deer meat = venison. He said venison is the correct word for the meat of any of the deer-like animals that drop their antlers. There is another word for the meat of those that retain their antlers year to year.
LauraGr at November 30, 2011 3:45 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/30/just_say_neigh.html#comment-2819632">comment from LauraGrBuffalo burgers from Trader Joe's taste like homeless men's feet.
Amy Alkon at November 30, 2011 4:44 PM
Not having eaten homeless men's feet, I'll defer to you on that one.
Ground beef from the grocery stores has lost all flavor lately, so homeless men's feet might be a step up flavor-wise.
Conan the Grammarian at November 30, 2011 4:49 PM
"(And it's spelled Dumas.)"
Sorry, we always just referred to it as dumbass as we drove through to go skiiing, with our noses covered.
I just started A Feast for Crows. The first 3 rocked.
momof4 at November 30, 2011 5:19 PM
True to my libertarian roots, I don't think there should be a law against it. Would I think a person who does eat horse is icky? You bet. Would I have anything to do with them? No way. But it's an easy choice for me as I don't eat any other mammals either. I'd eat a person before I'd eat a horse.
Catherine at November 30, 2011 5:36 PM
I don't like the idea of eating horse. The only reason I see for making it illegal would be sneaky companies slipping it in as fillers. I can see it now: Our tacos contain 6oz of Meat! (2oz of beef, 4oz of horse).
Growing up, my neighbors occasionally had horse meat (or so he said)...all the kids though it was weird.
I thought venison came from a particular part of he deer-like animal...like bacon vs pork.
Bison is quite tasty.
The Former Banker at November 30, 2011 5:42 PM
Yep any animal should be available for meat, as long as it is abundant enough and humanly killed. The humanly killed one is the only reason I have yet to try boshingtong (dog soup).
Also I think people forget that animals can be pests. Try in Australia with kangaroo's. Kangaroos make some nice sausages and steaks. Horses can be pests and problematic too - brumbies. I think a few wild horses are problems in some areas of the US. SO why not work with what you have.
John Paulson at November 30, 2011 6:36 PM
I have no problem with horse meat being legal.
Basically the split in meat really is based on the kinds of food they eat in general.
Generally cows, rabbits, horse, chickens, deer, etc. are herbivores and don't eat meat unless they are starving. But when talk about cats (big or small), dogs, bears (depending on season), rats, etc. they are primarily carnivores with an ability to eat some vegetation.
When they talk about eating dogs, primarily, they are puppies raised for it.
Jim P. at November 30, 2011 6:55 PM
Horsemeat is such a delicacy in Japan that they charter airplanes to bring in live horses (payload is 28, IIRC) from Calgary.
The horses are frequently American; they are trucked to Calgary to get around moronic US law.
---
The ban on slaughtering horses in the US has led to many animals being abandoned to starve to death.
But that is a small price to pay so that animal lovers can feel wonderful about themselves.
Jeff Guinn at November 30, 2011 7:19 PM
The only way to settle this for certain is to find one person who eats a lot of horsemeat, and another who doesn't, and see who is prettier.
clinky at November 30, 2011 8:33 PM
"The only way to settle this for certain is to find one person who eats a lot of horsemeat, and another who doesn't, and see who is prettier"
Probably the person who is privy to the accessibility of all that horsemeat.
ValiantBlue at November 30, 2011 10:39 PM
Horse - yum! Not at all uncommon here in Europe; you'll find it on the menu at many good restaurants. Perhaps it's less so in the States because of all the Wild West movies that feature horses? My mother, visiting from the States, was never willing to try it...
As for Haggis: like any kind of sausage - it all depends on the ingredients. Haggis isn't mass-produced to a single recipe, but made by individual butchers, so there is a huge variation in quality. Bad haggis can be really awful, but a good one - again, yum!
bradley13 at November 30, 2011 11:51 PM
Eating any meat is cruel (and yes I do eat meat). Can't wait till we can just "clone* the meat without creating the animal. Would vegetarians then eat the meat?
Purplepen at November 30, 2011 11:54 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/30/just_say_neigh.html#comment-2820567">comment from PurplepenI think, in some, there's also some squishy feeling of superiority for not eating what everyone does underlying some vegetarianism.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2011 12:41 AM
"The only reason I see for making it illegal would be sneaky companies slipping it in as fillers. I can see it now: Our tacos contain 6oz of Meat! (2oz of beef, 4oz of horse)"
I can't even see why that should be illegal, as long as they don't lie about what's in it, i.e. as long as the ingredient list mentions it. If you don't like the taste of SneakyInc's tacos, or are psychologically allergic to eating horse-meat, you just won't buy them, just like people with peanut allergies don't buy products that might contain peanuts (we don't ban peanuts). If using horse-meat as filler makes the food cheaper, why would that be bad in a day and age when so many people are poor/unemployed? Should poor people not be allowed cheaper food?
"Eating any meat is cruel (and yes I do eat meat). Can't wait till we can just "clone* the meat without creating the animal"
Yay, then we'll only have to slaughter all the beef cattle, and stop raising them. And once we invent artificial dairy, cattle will cease to exist. Rendering them entirely extinct is much less cruel than allowing them to have long peaceful lives (with abrupt ends) like they do now.
Lobster at December 1, 2011 12:45 AM
"The only reason I see for making it illegal would be sneaky companies slipping it in as fillers. I can see it now: Our tacos contain 6oz of Meat! (2oz of beef, 4oz of horse)"
My wife's cousin in the Philippines told me he thought a lot of the canned corned beef for sale there could have been saddled and ridden at one point...
Old RPM Daddy at December 1, 2011 4:22 AM
That's because no can of Spam makes it past Hawaii.
MarkD at December 1, 2011 4:40 AM
@Amy: I don't prefer buffalo because it's so lean, it tastes like cardboard (unless you add a ton of butter or oil...which I do).
Pigs are as intelligent and social as dogs, but I think the squeamishness is just that we don't want to think about eating something we're used to thinking of as a pet. If we kept pigs as pets and raised dogs as meat, then the situation would probably be reversed.
@Game of Thrones fans on this thread...what, no mention of the dog-eating Ghiscari??
I have no problem eating horsemeat, and if I were living where dog meat was commonly available I'd probably end up eating that too. That being said, I would prefer to be eating an animal that met a pain-free, humane death.
I may be mistaken, but I had thought that one of the reasons horse meat wasn't sold in the US was that it is so hard to tell the difference between horse and beef.
Choika at December 1, 2011 6:37 AM
Never had horsemeat, but it sounds interesting. I'd like to try it. Meat is meat!
Yes, from a moral standpoint meat should be cleanly and humanely prepared. And I know there have been and continue to be many issues in the meat industry. But once it's cooked and on a plate in front of me, I admit I don't think of that--I just enjoy the meat.
I do think horses are beautiful and endearing, but I've never really been around them much. I also never had dogs or cats of my own, though I've bonded with those of others. I wouldn't be against trying dog or cat meat prepared by a knowledgeable cook. Probably couldn't stomach it from the actual animal I had bonded with, though.
Now that I think about it, I've enjoyed lots of less common or objectionable animal foods. Foie gras and veal, oysters and caviar, venison and rabbit, blood sausage and various organ meats, ostrich on a trip to Kenya and mountain lion on a trip to South Dakota (tough as hell! but the sauce was good). I don't specifically seek out weird meat, but I guess I never turn down the chance to try it either.
The only time I had the trace of a mental block against eating an animal was when I had snails. In my opinion, snails and their cousins slugs are the most disgusting creatures on earth. I had to firmly shut out the image of the creatures in life before I could enjoy the (DELICIOUS) escargots.
On that note, I would probably pass on the chance to try insects or worms or the like. But no problems chowing down on meat from fuzzy, fluffy or noble creatures.
YTS at December 1, 2011 6:57 AM
There NO ban on horse meat and never was. The ban failed in 2006 when animal rights activists tried a different route. The went on to defund inspection for horse meat. So now money we don't have has been allocated to fund inspection for meat most people don't want or won't eat. I won't eat anything I've kept as a pet.
Now that I have a quick kill rifle, a freezer and a hunting permit I won't be eating beef, chicken or pork (not sure if wild hog is pork or not). One deer or elk can feed a family of 4 for months. Cruelty free, environmentally friendly and gets you out of the house.
vlad at December 1, 2011 7:11 AM
And let's not forget - God made the armadillo so Texans could have "'possum on the half shell."
Or, to alter the Campbell's jingle a bit: Marsupial is good food.
BloDog at December 1, 2011 7:28 AM
Hell, I would eat any one of you if I were trapped in a snowstorm and hungry enough. I'd probably eat horse, too.
MonicaP at December 1, 2011 1:42 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/11/30/just_say_neigh.html#comment-2821591">comment from MonicaPI hope you like dark meat.
Amy Alkon at December 1, 2011 1:43 PM
Are you talking about killing off the Texas speedbumps?
Jim P. at December 1, 2011 1:46 PM
1. Horses are no more 'self aware' then any other animal species - self aware is a prerequisite for movement
2. If horses are so fucking intellegient why do they eat conaminated food and die?
I dont have a problem with horse meat, never had it to my recollection
As far as buffao goes, eat steaks - it has very little fat so makes for shity burgers. Cook it in something that doesnt allow for the loss of moisture and not past medium rare
lujlp at December 1, 2011 3:35 PM
"If horses are so fucking intellegient why do they eat conaminated food and die?"
Why do people?
momof4 at December 1, 2011 5:55 PM
I have no problem with horse slaughter. I'm sure horses can be pests, too, in large numbers. Some people like to eat Trigger, it's their thing. It's bad enough that killing and eating Flipper is outlawed.
I do have a visceral problem with doing the same to cats and dogs, however, but the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has no constitutional business banning that one, either.
mpetrie98 at December 1, 2011 11:14 PM
Why do people?
Because they arent intellegent either
lujlp at December 2, 2011 8:44 AM
Leave a comment