It's "Date-Rapey"?
Wait -- "Baby It's Cold Outside" is known as the Christmas date-rape song?! (Is there no imaginary insanity to which a certain cadre of feminists will not stoop?) Via Althouse, a Metafilter link:
"Baby It's Cold Outside" is known as the Christmas Date Rape Song. Bitch Magazine wonders: does She & Him's gender-reversed version make it less creepy and less rape-y? Meanwhile, Persephone Magazine's "Listening While Feminist" has an alternative take on the holiday classic.
Helpfully, a Metafilter commenter, Bunny Ultramod, clears things up for the seeing rape everywhere morons (as does Persephone, but not as neatly and briefly as Bunny):
Oh Lord. Here are the lyrics. The only line that could possibly be construed as "date rapey" is "Say, what's in this drink?", which comes off badly now, in a time of rohypnol, but can be interpreted entirely innocently.It's a seduction song, written at a time when social conventions involved women playing hard to get. It was written by Frank Loesser as a duet to be performed with his wife, and was never intended for mass consumption (she was furious with him when he sold it). It was a party song that he sang often with his wife, back when parties typically included skits and entertainment from guests. And the lyrics never specify whether it is supposed to be a male singing the "wolf" part or not
In some instances, I think the criticism that this is sort of date rapey reflects changing attitudes, and is understandable, but in others I think the critics are being sort of ironic and comical about the subject, and, honestly, I think that minimizes the actual experience of rape. The last lines of this song are clearly expressions of consent.
"Baby It's Cold Outside" is known as the Christmas Date Rape Song.
Love that it's just a statement of fact, as if it requires no context or explanation of by whom exactly it's known that way. Totally agree with Bunny here. "Say, what's in this drink?" means "Wow, I'm getting a little tipsy and may need to stay here a bit, wink wink" not "Is that GHB or vermouth?" Although anyone who'd call it the Christmas Date Rape Song likely wouldn't approve of her staying inside with the guy when she's confessed to being a little buzzed since he clearly is waiting for her to pass out so he can do unspeakable things. Like Amy says, some people expend lots of energy seeing rape everywhere, which trivializes the experience of actual rape victims. For shame.
I'm not that into Christmas songs, but I adore every version I've heard of "Baby, It's Cold Outside." This one is my favorite illustration of the cute back-and-forth of the song (while nicely subverting those nasty gender stereotypes).
NumberSix at December 8, 2011 11:23 PM
The "say, what's in this drink" line is creepy.
NicoleK at December 9, 2011 1:39 AM
Leave Dean Martin alone!! (That's the version I think of, showing my age)
I can think of several hundred other songs to get more upset about, if you really feel the need.
DrCos at December 9, 2011 3:06 AM
The Police "Every Breath You Take" to start with. It's a nice tempo and tune so it gets used in ads a lot - usually instrumental - but I have to wonder at the person who thought a song about stalking was a good fit for health insurance.
Ltw at December 9, 2011 3:43 AM
Anybody who has watched old movies from that era (The Thin Man series comes to mind) could tell you that "What's in this drink?" and similar expressions were commonly used to refer to the strength of the alcohol which people often expected to be in the drink in the first place.
To my young (at the time) brain watching those movies (reruns on TV in the 1980s), it was simply a way of saying "Hey, I'm getting a buzz already. This stuff is good!"
Tom Accuosti at December 9, 2011 4:12 AM
I love that song. So persuasion is rape, now? Damn, DH is in for some serious prison time then! I took the "what's in this drink" line for it being alcohol. Seems pretty obvious. Idiots.
The Dean Martin version shall forever reign supreme to me.
momof4 at December 9, 2011 5:11 AM
There is a segment of women hell bent on making women's sufferage look like it was the worst idea of the 20th century.
We would all do well to ignore them.
Robert at December 9, 2011 5:37 AM
You don't get it, Amy. You're a victim. You have no ability whatsoever to think or vote the "right way", much less keep your legs crossed. Women are beautiful, innocent invalids who must be protected against everything.
And someone is ready to help you. Aren't they wonderful?
This nation is sick. Can you imagine the furor if "I Dream of Jeannie" was revived?
Radwaste at December 9, 2011 5:44 AM
I hasten to add the in the first film this song was used, it's sung by two pairs of people. Once by Esther Williams and Ricardo Montalban, with Ricardo in the...oh, let's call it "Active" role.
THEN it's sung by Red Skelton and Betty Garrett, and the roles are EXACTLY REVERSED.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHYqKEAehPU
Vinnie Bartilucci at December 9, 2011 7:28 AM
Reason #487 to ignore anything and everything the professional feminist movement has to say.
JDThompson at December 9, 2011 7:47 AM
You don't get it, Amy. You're a victim. You have no ability whatsoever to think or vote the "right way", much less keep your legs crossed. Women are beautiful, innocent invalids who must be protected against everything.
Then we need to put women in burkas and convert! Alluh akbar!
I'll miss bacon and pork products, tho. Ok, scratch the whole conversion idea...
I R A Darth Aggie at December 9, 2011 7:55 AM
I have three versions on the ipod right now: Dean Martin, Tom Jones, and Neil Diamond. The Dean Martin version is my favorite. (I am not the one who purchased the Neil Diamond album, so stop making fun of me.) Anyway, I love that song. I think it's cute. (And as ltw points out, there are WAY creepier Sting/Police songs...plus U2's "With or Without You," and most of what the Toadies sing- we could go on and on.)
ahw at December 9, 2011 8:02 AM
This nation is sick. Can you imagine the furor if "I Dream of Jeannie" was revived?
Posted by: Radwaste at December 9, 2011 5:44 AM
There's almost no such thing as "high camp" anymore, so it couldn't be done tastefully today, anyway.
But I tend to think of the old series (definitely high camp) as saying "don't wish for a bimbo girlfriend or you might get one." After all, Tony's life was nothing but trouble with her around!
lenona at December 9, 2011 8:07 AM
but in others I think the critics are being sort of ironic and comical about the subject
No. The critics resent men and regard any interaction with them as inherently 'rapey'. They're not being 'ironic' or comical, they honestly think that all men are latent rapists. They've been saying this for years.
If I were to go around claiming that all women are whores and parasites, most sensible people would have the sense to recognize that I was a bigot and shouldn't be taken seriously. But with Feminists there's always an attempt to excuse and explain away their behavior. Why?
jerr at December 9, 2011 8:17 AM
Next they'll be going after John Lennon....
Well I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or I won't know where I am
You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl
Well you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line.
Eric at December 9, 2011 8:20 AM
Lennon told an interviewer that he always hated that song, but I can't remember why.
lenona at December 9, 2011 8:45 AM
What about Sting's "Don't Stand So Close To Me"? There's a child predator song! Surprised it's even allowed on the radio now.
I'll admit, even though I love Dean Martin, I've always found that song a little creepy. Not because I thought he was intending to rape her though, just that he's trying too hard to persuade her to stay with him. Have some dignity, man! Let her grab her coat and go.
But there are far weirder songs. YMCA is hilarious when you realize it's basically a gay anthem, yet little old ladies are out there making the "Y-M-C-A", having no idea. That always cracks me up. Few people pay much attention to lyrics (besides feminists, apparently).
Last night, my daughter and I were decorating the tree, and some Neil Diamond Christmas song was playing, and he's yelling, "Holy Holly Ho" or something like that. We both burst out laughing.
LS at December 9, 2011 8:47 AM
"Baby, It's Cold Outside" = not creepy
"Young Girl" by Gary Puckett = creepy
Young girl, get out of my mind
My love for you is way out of line
Better run, girl, you're much too young, girl
With all the charms of a woman
You've kept the secret of your youth
You led me to believe you're old enough to give me love
And now it hurts to know the truth, oh
Young girl, get out of my mind ....
In the last verse, he actually sings: Get out of here before I have the time to change my mind. YECCH.
Kevin at December 9, 2011 8:48 AM
Well, if we're going to be posting lyrics . . .
My baby took a polecat, swung it around her head
Threw it off in the wood said “I smell like you now, so let's go to bed.
My baby took a polecat she swung it around her head
She threw it off in the woods she said “I smell like you now so let's go to bed
She said I don't want no champagne, I don't want no gin
That thing that you do, I want you to do that again
She said “I don't want no champagne” she said “I don't want no gin
That thing that you do, I want you to do that again”
After I done what she wanted
She rolled a cigarette with one hand
She struck a match on my bottom
And said “Now don't run off I might want to do this again”
After I done what she wanted, she rolled a cigarette
She struck a match on my bottom
And said “Now don't run off I might want to do this again”
Go on out there and fetch me another pole cat
-- Ray Wylie Hubbard
Steve Daniels at December 9, 2011 9:04 AM
What about Sting's "Don't Stand So Close To Me"? There's a child predator song!
The character in that song is desperately trying to avoid submitting to temptation. The child is the predator LS. Ok, that's all in Sting's pretty fevered imagination, but still.
Ltw at December 9, 2011 9:38 AM
Of course, if you want a truly disturbing mashup, there's always The Tubes "Don't Touch Me There" with bonus TSA photos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zee4VQjMmlQ&feature=related
Ltw at December 9, 2011 9:52 AM
Wait...
"Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" is about bullying and sends the message that only if what makes you a freak is useful to someone else will they ever stop bullying you.
"Baby, It's Cold Outside" is about date rape.
"Frosty the Snowman" sanctions theft.
I had no idea Christmas was so violent.
Conan the Grammarian at December 9, 2011 10:08 AM
A blast from the past..... mmmmm delicious!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFqZhadwvG0
People are so fucking uptight now days.
PS- How many feminists does it take to change a lightbuld?
Feminists don't change anything.
Eric at December 9, 2011 10:30 AM
> Feminists don't change anything.
Stealing that.
(I'm only going to tell people it was yours if they've heard of the internet.)
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 9, 2011 11:22 AM
FWIW, I remember Sting being very clear with people about that song in 80's... That the creepitude of his lyrics had been pushed out of their memory by the poochiness of his lips in the black-&-white video.
In a National Lampoon joke, one of his solo albums was named "Please Take Notes". He's tried hard to be humble, and failed.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 9, 2011 11:27 AM
Ok, here's a better one:
She's really upset with me again,
I didn't give her what she likes.
I don't know what to tell her,
Don't know what to say.
Everything got funky last night.
She was really bombed,
And I was really blown away,
Until I asked her what she wanted,
And this is what she had to say:
A pearl necklace.
She wanna pearl necklace.
She wanna pearl necklace.
She gets a charge out of bein' so weird,
Digs gettin' downright strange.
But I can keep a handle on anything,
Just this side of deranged.
She was gettin' bombed,
And I was gettin' blown away,
And she held it in her hand
And this is what she had to say:
A pearl necklace.
She wanna pearl necklace.
She wanna pearl necklace.
She's so cold, as pure as the driven slush.
And that's not jewelry she's talkin'about,
It really don't cost that much.
She was gettin' bombed,
And I was gettin' blown away,
And she took it in her hand,
And this is what she had to say:
A pearl necklace.
She wanna pearl necklace.
She wanna pearl necklace.
-- ZZ Top
Steve Daniels at December 9, 2011 12:48 PM
>> Feminists don't change anything.
> Stealing that.
Another version I read somewhere:
How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?
THAT'S NOT FUNNY!
-----------------
USAF Version: How many fighter pilots does it take to change a lightbulb?
Only one -- he holds the bulb up there, and the whole world turns around him...
Old RPM Daddy at December 9, 2011 12:57 PM
My friend jumped up in the middle of our AP Biology class, and started bellowing out "Pearl Necklace," while dancing and making gestures. The teacher tried to have him suspended. That was in 1999, and I still remeber it like it was yesterday. Hee, hee. I love ZZ Top.
ahw at December 9, 2011 12:59 PM
Trivia: there's also a version of B,ICO by Dino Martin and Martina McBride. Very well done.
Rudolph? Have you heard of Randolph, The Brown-Nosed Reindeer? Just as strong, just as fast as Rudolph, but he don't stop so good!
Radwaste at December 9, 2011 1:39 PM
I'll admit I make jokes about it being the Christmas Date Rape song but I didn't think anyone actually believed it really sanctioned date rape. Just one of those things we look at with modern cynicism, like ads depicting which cigarettes doctors recommend most.
Crom's beard, people are dumbasses.
Elle at December 9, 2011 1:39 PM
Brian Setzer and Anne Margret's version is my fave, though I have other versions...
I think I've gotten to the point that I dun care about such screechings, because they help me identify people I should avoid...
Thanks for the link Vinnie, I fell over laughing when she kept putting on his coat with her inside... It would certainly be hard to say no to a beautiful girl like that.
SwissArmyD at December 9, 2011 2:16 PM
"The say, what's in this drink' line is creepy."
The Advice Goddess Kangaroo Court hereby finds you guilty of imposing current language standards and usage upon another era. "What's in this drink?" was a coy flirtation, a permission granted to go a little further, back in the day when ripping off one's clothes and screaming "FUCK ME NOW!" was still considered a bit forward. In fact, there need not have been anything in the drink at all beyond orange juice or Coca-Cola.
The Court sentences you to listen to "Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer" fifty times in a row.
Cousin Dave at December 9, 2011 3:17 PM
"Every Breath You Take"
Some time ago, I heard Andy Summers in an interview talk about that song. He stated that it's actually a song about the desire/lust of Big Brother for the citizen, cast into the form of a creepy love song. This may be a retcon, but it totally works.
Cousin Dave at December 9, 2011 3:20 PM
Haters gotta hate.
Anyone always looking for something negative will find it.
Life is either far too short or far too long to make yourself miserable.
LauraGr at December 9, 2011 3:59 PM
Eric posed the question, "How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb".
The correct answer is, "Two. One to change the lightbulb and the other one to suck my cock."
whistleDick at December 9, 2011 8:47 PM
comedy version of "Baby Its Cold Outside" http://youtu.be/ClE2p1TAy-c
gcotharn at December 9, 2011 9:03 PM
Okay, you wanna talk about forward sexual advances in this song, I don't think you can beat the Miss Piggy version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARUM0-jtjIg
((Fun Fact: Supposedly it was Rudolph Nureyev's appearance on the show that inspired a lot of actors/actresses to volunteer to be guests on the Muppet Show. And I think you can see why: He looks like he's having a blast!))
cornerdemon at December 10, 2011 6:24 AM
Fifty times!
Actually to be honest I hate the song because it reminds me of a bad situation I was in. I also hate it when people say "baby" sleazily. Eeewww.
NicoleK at December 10, 2011 12:55 PM
Have these feminist bitches ever listened to a 2 Live Crew song???
Actual lyric: "My dick is 15 inches long and 8 inches wide."
mpetrie98 at December 10, 2011 10:28 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2011/12/09/its_date-rapey.html#comment-2847877">comment from mpetrie98"My dick is 15 inches long and 8 inches wide."
"...And I store coffee beans in it when I'm not using it."
Amy Alkon at December 10, 2011 10:53 PM
Which 2 Live Crew possibly stole from a classic gay graffiti (not verbatim):
"I am 15 inches long and 8 inches wide."
"Great, how big is your cock?"
lenona at December 11, 2011 10:22 AM
Oh, and I found out why John Lennon didn't like "Run For Your Life" - he considered it "phony."
lenona at December 11, 2011 10:23 AM
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