Architecture, at least, can be an asset during a building boom... assuming you go to a tech school and do the engineering work, rather than just the liberal arts route.

That's assuming that you can actually get a job after the fact. Usually you can't and you're stuck with a shitload of debt.

Even in good economic times, the laws of supply and demand apply to the labor market. E.g., more people want to be architects than there is demand for architects, hence on average architecture is one of the lower paid professions. The same applies to artists (defined broadly, including visual artists, actors, musicians, etc.), hence the proverbial "starving artist."

So high unemployment rates exist for these qualifications? Shocking indeed.

This is why I recommend not sending your kid to college unless they, a) take a lot of honors courses in science and math and have passed Pre-Calc or Calculus I with an A or B their senior year, and B) go into something that leads to a real professional job, like science, engineering, or medicine.

Otherwise they will be far better off going to a Community College and becoming a hairdresser, tooth cleaner, carpenter, plumber, or auto mechanic. It will only take 2 years and if they live at home, Mom & Dad can pay for it without giving up a comfortable retirement. They could be well employed, have their own place, and be driving their own car by age 21 on this life path.

"Yeah, I know: Shocking."

No no. Unexpectedly!

I think the following quote I read earlier today may be somewhat apropos.

"The complaint of Occupiers is that they can't live a CEO lifestyle with a degree in philosophy and a 20 hour work week."

Education would be down there too, if it wasn't the reciever of so much "Shovel ready Stimulous" money" Can't allow a teacher to be laid off, no matter what.

"This is why I recommend not sending your kid to college unless they, a) take a lot of honors courses in science and math and have passed Pre-Calc or Calculus I with an A or B their senior year, and B) go into something that leads to a real professional job, like science, engineering, or medicine.

You seem to be setting the bar a little high. I wouldn't have met those criteria as a high school senior. Yet I went on to get a degree in finance and applied economics, from a respected school, with a top 15 finance program, and graduate with a 3.4 gpa. I’m now employed as an accountant, which I would consider a “professional job”.

I agree that a community college is a good stepping stone though. The problem with using a student’s performance in high school to predict their college performance is that high school teachers suck; while college professors don’t. At least that’s been my experience.

Also I don’t know what this STEM obsession is about. Does someone with a bachelor’s degree in pure math really have a much more significant chance of landing a well paying job when compared against someone with a degree in psychology? I doubt it. Neither degree provides readily transferrable skills unless the student goes on to obtain their masters degree at the very least. Now if someone were to get a four year degree in Statistics then that’s a different matter entirely. Rather then fetishizing the STEM fields a better approach would be to look at the data and career outlook readily available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and make a practical decision using that.

@Mike Hunter:

Correct, I should have included Accounting as a viable career. But it is one of the degrees few outside of STEM that leads to professional work.

You are also correct that within science, there are many useless degrees, and math is a dubious career choice, but one few students are likely to choose and the course work will filter out the unworthy quickly.

I have a friend who has a MS in Geology and he has never had much of a career. Studying the mating habits of obscure creatures or the life cycle of prehistoric ferns and similar interesting hobby degrees is about as useful as Egyptology. If you are going to spend a few years and a lot of money on a science degree, it should be in something industry needs.

I work in "STEM" and I don't think that's the key to good job prospects, in-and-of-itself. Flexibility, adaptability, etc, is more important. A chemistry major without business classes nowadays may be as likely to run the barista career route as someone who majored in gender symbolism in food. In contrast, a French Lit major with, yes, some solid STEM under the belt (not just geology for poets and musicians) may have a shot at doing at something like technical writing support which could open up other opportunities (not to mention demonstrate how the future can hold more than what's explicitly written on that expensive sheepskin). Having a diverse and solid portfolio matched with a desire to think beyond the traditional your-diploma-is-your--career, may be a better career formula.

Mike Hunter:"Does someone with a bachelor’s degree in pure math really have a much more significant chance of landing a well paying job when compared against someone with a degree in psychology? I doubt it. "

Avg starting salary Applied Math :$52,600, one of the lowest in STEMs.
Avg starting salary in psychology: $40,089.
So 30% less initially, I consider a 30% pay reduction to be significant.

"I have a friend who has a MS in Geology and he has never had much of a career. "

That's a bit odd actually. I have a relative who has a degree in geology and he does quite well; he tells me that oil companies are always looking for good geologists. It's hard work -- you spend a lot of time out in the desert setting shot holes -- but it pays well.

I dropped my old career and went to horseshoeing school. It was a nine week program. It takes a couple or three years to mature at this trade but I know plenty of guys making $100k+ at it.
My last ex is a professional architect-- unemployed for the most part. She went through a five year program for that.

Even a lot of the STEM courses don't really need a college degree. I've done desktop support, network admin, programming, DBA, and other computer stuff and still don't have a college degree. Most of my co-workers, and many other techs I have met at this level also don't have a college degree.

That's a bit odd actually. I have a relative who has a degree in geology and he does quite well; he tells me that oil companies are always looking for good geologists.

That might be it. He is a major Environmentalist. I am sure he is too pure to work for evil oil companies. I met him the year the kid joined kindergarten. He is the dad of her best friend in grade school. At the time he had a company with a few friends that did environmental impact studies for companies. It was in failure mode. He now has a part time job writing environmental policy statements for the state DOT. His wife leads the local nut group trying to ban lawn chemicals.

First, all you people responding to Mike Hunter, please say Mike Hunter fast 5x.

Recently had my niece and her best friend stay with us for a long weekend. Both had started college as elementary education majors. Both figured out in year three that kids are horrible human beings and they'd rather starve than tame them. Both decided to get "real jobs" majors.

They switched to Liberal Studies and Sustainability. With minors in Women's Studies.

I know this sound like a joke, but it's not. I was listening to this shit while buying them dinner and not saying anything because my wife had her hand on my thigh promising rewards for buying dinner and me not saying anything.

They're cute girls. I wouldn't hire them.

Joe J:

Avg starting salary Applied Math :$52,600, one of the lowest in STEMs.
Avg starting salary in psychology: $40,089.
So 30% less initially, I consider a 30% pay reduction to be significant.

That's why I specifically said pure math; not applied math or statistics. Which as I said earlier would be a whole different ball game.

Also where did you get those stats? I'm not saying they're wrong, but; an average starting salary of $40,089 for a bachelors degree in psychology seems a little high. Are you sure you didn't pull the stats for the average starting salary in that field? As opposed to the average starting salary for someone with a bachelors degree in those subjects? It was my impression that in order to get a decent job in either of those fields you needed at least a masters degree.

Mrs Snake is a Psychologist. I can say with confidence that making any real money there requires an advanced degree.

Also, color me surprised at the architect thing. I always lord those guys in with engineers as a "practical" job. Go figure.

One thing we need to remember about pure science research vs applied stuff, is that it is important in the long run. Case in point: number theory. For years it was considered a fluff field, lots of schools considered not teaching it, it was considered all fun and games. Now it is the basis of internet encryption, every time you buy something online, number theory forms the basis of that transaction.

Applied stuff pays off immediately, but research pays off in the long-term. As an individual, applied stuff will probably be more lucrative, but as a society, we need long-term researchers to do stuff that may not pay off in our lifetime.

My husband, who is a pure mathematician, says if our daughter shows an inclination for math he will encourage her to go applied, particularly into finance, as its more lucrative. And from an individual perspective it makes more sense. However, having finance be the basis of your industry and economy is probably not so hot in the long term. At some point you need to be making actual stuff to back up your stocks.

Former engineer here. I have a BS in mechanical engineering from CU and passed the eight-hour Fundamentals of Engineering exam given by the state of Colorado. Then I tried to make a living at engineering and found it involved a lot of bouncing around the job market and going months or longer between those short-term jobs. That's great for employers (I guess), but I need a real job.

I'd encourage a bright young person who's good with numbers to go into accounting. Compared to engineering, there's a *lot* more work available, the course work is easier (I'm told), there's less liability, career development seems to be the rule, skills are transferable, and it's a better business model.

Mike it's called google, it would take you less time getting the answers, than it does for you to post that you have doubts or questions about them.

I love nicolek's last post

My nephew just graduated with a degree in landscape architecture. He found a job in Chicago within about 2 or 3 months of graduating. I don't know what kind of money that pays... There is a lot more involved in that that I had ever thought about though. It seems interesting to me.

yeah, golf courses tend to have a high turnover rate though

Ms. Postrel: As unfunded liabilities soar beyond one hundred trillion dollars, it's difficult to regard aspirations to "public relations for a nonprofit" as an enthusiasm we need to encourage. Perhaps such wordy, perception-manipulating positions are individually fulfilling; that doesn't mean they're going to create the wealth we need for the generations ahead. Almost by definition, nonprofits are a drain on shared resources. It's a dicey (and perhaps corrupt) kind of dynamism that promises personal gratification for a lifetime of that work.

And as costs of education (administration especially) have exploded in recent decades, academe seems to be clogging its labs with its own rodentia.

Steyn wants to scare us, and succeeds (paraphrase): No other nation even uses the word "trillion".