That's a hard and fast rule.

Third date? With Internet dating, I could have gotten laid on the first or second date half of the time. But I later decided that it can't be that easy. I have had plenty of heat with a girl on a first date but if I was truly interested then I would wait.

You really have no idea how easy it gets when you have some brains and a little game in your 30's. It's like fish in a barrel.

In short, the third date rule is a waste.

I was always the one who waited too long. It was a bad case of niceguyitis. One girlfriend invited me over with the huge hint that I should buy condoms on the way. My wife wondered if there was something wrong with me.

I had sex on my third date. Of course I was 28 at the time and realized that I should have started dating much earlier....

Strike while the iron's hot. I met a girl online last year. She strung me out for two weeks before she would even go on date one. Lost my attention.

How old is your LW? I think it matters. the Dirty 30's don't seem to see any reason to play games.

BP, tips?

I'll give my $.02 from two angles....

Rules like that are moot when it isn't even a date. What if it starts as a hookup then you really get to liking each other enough to start dating/living together/making future plans (my personal situation)?

As far as conventional dating, well, I suppose it depends on how much communication there is (and the quality/frequency of it) and the amount of time that goes by between dates. That, in turn, depends on how much you are into each other. If I met someone whom I was so into (and she was equally into me) then the sex would probably just happen when it happened and it wouldn't really matter. Maybe it shouldn't be such a rigid policy. I wouldn't bail for a while if it didn't happen, and I wouldn't base the timing around the number of dates. It would have to go by how well we get along.

To BP, you are more right than I want to admit (about dating in your 30's)....I'm a fairly bright cat with a good head on my shoulders, but really just an average dude....after being divorced at 31, I had to beat them off with a stick. I don't have self-esteem issues, in fact I am a pretty confident guy, yet I still asked myself, "am I really that good? Or are good guys really that hard to find?"

Tips? Seriously?

None other than be yourself and don't stress. Be confident and be willing to be picky.

And if you are looking to only get laid, you won't.

Never stuck by any rules. Had intended one night stands that turned into relationships.

All I can say is I'm glad I'm not single now. Wouldn't want to be one of the gals BP is talking about.

Joe-
I'm not a small guy (6'3" 280) and yet I do fine. I agree that I had the same internal questions that you did. In the end, I gave it real time if I was really interested. Did you?

There are a lot of idiots out there that we competed with.

BP

Yeah, seriously, after all, I am going home to dump my girlfriend. Sorry for the cross thread joke.

A third date rule seems creepy to me. "It's our third date so you have to have sex with me" is in the same territory as "I bought you dinner so you owe me a blowjob". Not having sex on the FIRST date seems a good rule of thumb, for the most part -- though rules are of course made to be broken. Other than that, I'd say the pace is best dictated by the chemistry between the daters, not by some rulebook that can lead only to stress, insecurity and false expectations.

Rigid policy, nice one Joe.

BP-

Well, I was kind of in a different boat. I hooked up with a girl and became great friends with her three months before going to Iraq. No commitment on her part other than to keep in touch. She messed around while I was gone but we stayed in touch and got really close. I stuck it out instead of lashing out when I came home and I have the girl of my dreams now.

Before that, though, it was out of control. I had so many "possibilities", I had a hard time picking. And I realized that the answer to both of my questions was "yes". When you do simple things for a girl like, oh, listen to her when she talkes to you, and be even remotely funny, have a job and some realistic goals, then you already have half the field beat. Funny how uncomplicated it actually is.

-Joe

All I do is stare at their mouths and wrinkle my nose, and I turn out to be a sweetheart.

That line from Vince Vaughn taught me lots. It's not looks, it's game. It took me a while to learn to move on past game but now I'm happier.

In answer to the original question, there is no 3rd date rule. If you have one, then you are either a prude that needs rules or you are a wild child that needs someone slowing you down.

Be who you are. No more and no less.

Unless she's really hot, or; we really have some good chemistry she better be banging by the 3rd date otherwise she's outta there!

I always did it when I wanted to-which may have always been before the 3rd date, or never. Can't remember exactly. Never had a problem with men committing, either. In fact current hubby and long term college guy were both pre first date, third longest relationship other than those 2 was first date. Hmm. Guess I'm slutty! But it's worked for me.

I think if you feel sex is all you have to offer, buys pick up on that. if you feel it's one facet of you and all facets are worthy, then sex is no biggie.

Yeah, that's guys, not buys..

And I think my attitude is NOT one for teen girls! Too many things can go wrong that young that you have no ability to deal with. I wasn't slutty til about 21.

More often than not, I encounter either of two philosophies from women:

1) Those who figure every guy wants to hook up ASAP, to they avoid any possible confrontation by not going out with me at all

or

2) Those who will go out with me for months, or more, with no intention of a sexual relationship, ever.

Some of my best "dating" (as opposed to "romantic") relationships have been with gay or married women (with the permission of their husbands, who are frequently out of town on business). Those women (I'm speaking of the individuals in question, rather than the type) are excellent company, and I don't take it personally that I'm not getting laid.

I think of me as their straight "gay best friend." Unconventional, but it all works out pretty well. And it helps that I look at sex as a manifestation of intimacy, rather than conquest.

I sleep with guys on the first date typically, unless it is a friendship that turns into more. I figure if I'm attracted to a guy, it makes sense to sleep with him. Sex is fun! No need to wait. I can sleep with a guy and not develop intense feelings just because he made me orgasm. I have a high sex drive and I'm not really looking for a relationship, just a fun time. If i find someone I click with on an emotional level as well as the physical level, I might consider it. I'm a late 20s female.

I kind of have a one month rule. But yeah, better to find out fairly early on if you're sexually compatible or not. But I kind of like Casey's idea too. :D

Is three dates really the norm? I'm still in college and haven't done much conventional dating--in high school you tend to start the relationship before you do anything that would be characterized as a date, and in college usually the hook-up comes first and maybe dating results from that. So I don't have much experience here, but that just seems crazy to me. I mean, Amy is always saying that the first date should be something short like coffee, maybe the second date is a restaurant and the third is some kind of activity--then after that you're expected to have sex? What about if you want to hookup first to test the waters--does that have to happen by date 2 then? And three dates might happen over the span of a week, so that means letting someone into your house/going to their house that you barely know--seems risky.

I don't know, I like sex and would definitely want to sleep with someone before getting exclusive, but every 3 dates seems like you'd rack up a LOT of notches on your belt and pretty quickly. You also put yourself at risk for getting emotionally invested in someone who's out of there after date 3--much more so than a one night stand, where everyone knows what the deal is. It's also ironic because it seems like men prefer virgins or at least women who are somewhat discriminating--no wonder you can't find any when you're screening them out after date 3!

Three date rule... Egad! What a stupid waste of time. I want to know if a guy is at least decent in bed before I get emotionally connected. I would hate to fall for a guy who was bad in bed.

//One guy did get weeded out for not being crazy enough in the sack.

These "rules" are stupid, depends on the people involved.

I do think, though that three dates or so, if they happen in a reasonable time span, (ie not 6 months apart) is enough time to know whether or not you want to keep dating the person or not.

Wow - I grew up in a whole different world than most of you, I guess. I would expect to date someone for 3-6 months and get to know them a bit before sleeping with them. That is, unless I was picking them up at a bar or something JUST for a hookup and no more. For those who say that you should find out if you're compatible in bed first - you can always learn what each other likes, and mostly can adapt, but if you get emotionally bonded through sex, you could easily find yourself stuck with a crazy person who is very hard to scrape off.

Rules...we don't need no stinking rules!

Wow! I am with Wayne and must also be a total dinosaur. I can't imagine giving it up to some guy I just met bc I need to know if we have some random sexual potential. Umm, seems to me that just the fact that you don't know him well puts some juice into that first encounter. You can really only assess your sexual compatibility with long term study and not a quickie in a bar.

You know, its funny because we were just discussing whose responsibility parenthood is on the other thread. What if the worst case scenario happened and that guy you took for a "test drive" and had no intention of seeing again scored a hole in one and got you pregnant? Do any of you think of that? It is a legitimate risk. This is what I was saying over there. Every time you have sex, no matter how careful you are, you take a risk that you might end up pregnant. Then the men would sit around and cry about how they were duped and the women would cry about how the guy is a deadbeat.

We are way to free with ourselves these days. I am very old school in my thinking. Sex is emotionally dangerous stuff. When you start hooking up with people you know less than nothing about, don't be surprised when it bites you in the ass...hard. And please don't come out here bitching about it because you were warned.

I've generally had sex whenever I wanted it, which was often on or even before the first date. It never seemed to stand in the way of men wanting commitment. Most of my relationships resulted from hookups with guys I already knew through social or work connections.

I have a theory that it's not "sex too soon" that repels men; it's "desperate sex." It's the equivalent of the Nice Guy who is obsequiously nice because he hopes it will pay off, unconsciously trying to coerce the other person into giving him what he wants. Men can tell the difference.

Once I went out with a guy with whom I had fantastic chemistry, and we decided to change our usual script and date for an entire month before we slept together. I think we both dug the challenge of making the other person want it as much as possible while resisting it ourselves. Of course, this became a game of prolonged sexual denial, and therefore a sex game. We'd go out a few times a week, flirt outrageously and very pointedly /not/ have sex. We both thought we were falling in love.

When the time was up, we had sex, and it was great, but soon after we realized we weren't that into each other. Sexual tension and anticipation had been carrying us along the whole time, and had helped us to ignore everything we disagreed on.

Feeling OLD after reading most of these comments.

I too also feel that getting to know someone is more important than simply having sex.

I much preferred a nice three day weekend having fun than a simple one-night encounter.

Having fun together was a much better indicator of compatibility than simply how many times I got her off in a few hours.

Yup, I think the winning idea is that it depends on age, more than anything...

A lot of my younger 20's-30's friends don't really date in a way I'd understand... there's nothing formal. They decide to go to a hockey game together, whoop hey "I woke up in his bed, :grin:"
:shrug:

Before I'm swapping body fluids with someone, I want to know them pretty well, ESPECIALLY since there are some nasty and increasingly drug resistant diseases out there, that people often conveniently fail to mention when you are starting at their belly button and heading south...

But then, I also prolly wait too long to make "The Move"... I want to get closer and closer until the move is unambiguous, and I can tell I'm being accepted, rather than forcing her into it.

Even the original Gregg's famous move on Amy... was fairly ambitious.

3rd date depends on so much, and sometimes it seems you are on the same page when you are just hormonal.

It's survival of the species kids... it's isn't much dependent only on our madskillz, rather it's chemistry.

What sheepmommy, WayneB, and Bob in Texas said.

I was always amused by the "put out or I'm outta here" types. Umm, there's the door and I don't mind if it hits you on the ass. I was always just grateful to have dodged a bullet with those characters. I'd much rather be alone than with a creep.

My own personal philosophy is that I waited to have sex until I thought I knew the person fairly well.

Recreational sex can turn into procreational sex despite precautions and I am not a believer in abortions for myself.

Therefore no nookie until I thought the man might be an acceptably sane specimen that would be responsible if pregnancy occurred despite precautions.

That was always more than 3 dates.

But then I am fairly conservative in most ways.

Lots of people regret that hasty jump in the sack when there are repercussions.

Mistakes in Early Dating:
(RH = Reported as really happened)

 OK: Selecting from the buffet.
Bad: Building a "skyscraper" plate.
Ugh: Taking "all you can eat" literally.

 OK: Ordering for yourself, then asking for her choice.
Bad: Ordering for her.
Ugh: Ordering the least expensive dish for her.

 OK: Sniffing the wine cork.
Bad: Touching it to your nose
Ugh: Tasting the cork.
XXX: Licking the cork.

 OK: Ask “How do you like the wine?”
Bad: “How do you like me?”
Ugh: “Do you like sex?”
XXX: Say “Later” while smiling.

 OK: Describe your vacation.
Bad: Describe girls seen on vacation.
Ugh: Discuss the girls at the next table.
XXX: Talk to the girls at the next table.

 OK: Eating oysters.
Bad: Demonstrate the "one gulp" method.
Ugh: Make a face after swallowing each one.
XXX: "What do you think these look like?"
XXX: “How many do I need to eat for later" (smile)

 OK: Blow your nose at the table, head turned.
Bad: Into the napkin.
Ugh: Into the tablecloth.
Ugh: Sniff it back, loudly.
XXX: Freehand

 OK: Move a bad bite from mouth to plate with a fork.
Bad: Spit it onto the plate.
Ugh: Spit it onto the floor.
XXX: Into a pocket.

 OK: Tuck in your tie.
Bad: Loosen your tie.
Ugh: Loosen your belt.
XXX: Open a shirt button.

 OK: Excuse yourself to the bathroom
Bad: Can't find the bathroom.
Ugh: Can't find your way back to the table.
XXX: 15 minutes in the bathroom.

 OK: A 15% tip.
Bad: No tip.
Ugh: Ask your date to leave the tip.
XXX: Wrap your chewing gum in the tip.

 OK: Sugar or Sweet n Low.
Bad: 5 Sugars or 'Lows.
Ugh: Empty a packet into your mouth.
XXX: Take the packets with you as you leave.

 OK: Tighten the top on the salt shaker.
Bad: Remove the top and pour the salt.
Ugh: Loosen the top for the next guy.
Ugh: Throw salt over your shoulder.
XXX: Throw the entire shaker over your shoulder.

 OK: Comment on how nice the meal is.
Bad: On how clean the tableware is.
Ugh: On how tasty the ketchup is.
XXX: On how clean she is.

 OK: Pass gas, with apology.
Bad: Fart proudly.
Ugh: Shout "Watch it, fella" at the next table.
XXX: Explain the details of Irritable Bowel Syndrome.
XXX: Show how to light it.

 OK: A bit dizzy when driven home.
Bad: Stopping to throw-up at the curb.
Ugh: Saying "I feel better now".
XXX: Barfing on the driver's legs (RH).

 OK: Ask what he does for fun.
Bad: What model car he drives.
Ugh: How much he makes.
XXX: Why is he different from all of the other men? (RH)

 OK: Post a vacation picture of yourself
Bad: Mowing the lawn.
Ugh: Your baby picture. (RH)
XXX: Of a handsome bartender.

 OK: My posted photos are recent.
Bad: My photos are fairly recent.
Ugh: Walking my dog in the winter.
XXX: I'm learning how to work the camera.

 OK: Let’s see a movie. I’ll pick you up Friday at 7:00.
Bad: I’ll meet you at the movie.
Ugh: Let’s hang out.
XXX: Bring your friend.
XXX: I might call you tonight after the bar scene.

Agree with sheepmommy, WayneB, Bob in Texas, and rm.

Also, do you really need to have actual intercourse with a person to know whether or not you are sexually compatable? I mean, I've never had a fantastic make-out session or third base run, only to find out that the intercourse itself was unacceptable. That makes no sense to me.

I've been divorced for 10 years. For the first couple of years after the divorce, I was actually amazed if I made it to the second date before sleeping with her (if we slept together at all, naturally). It was a big deal, back then, to wait 'til date three. I was kind

But as I got past the "Rebound" stage of things, I found that the emotional connection you got through nothing more than sex was a pretty brittle one. Which wasn't to say it wasn't fun. I had my last one night stand four months ago, and I loved it.

But I started dating someone about a month ago. Eight dates, and lots of really awesome making out, and we're talking about it - but nothing yet. And that's just fine, because the relationship rocks so far, I'd hate to screw that up just to get laid...

"Even the original Gregg's famous move on Amy... was fairly ambitious."

Take the lesson.

The lady in this case was a professional advisor who was/is:

* Happy by herself - and thus, is self-warned about investing more than is really possible in confirmation bias.

* Health aware.

* Able to spot desirable and undesirable traits in others from a distance.

* Working on a relationship established in broad daylight where some element of commonality was apparent. There was no furtive concealment of warts or sores, no night-time lurking in a bar's dim corner.

* Reminded constantly by readers what not to do.

This apparently worked really well. The girl's not shy about what happened (I blush).

While it is possible for someone in Our Lady of The Flaming White-Out's position to make a mistake, it is much less likely than when others determine "good odds" means "she's drunk enough, time to move in".

Last year, I met a guy at a park and we really hit it off. He wanted me to go home with him after we'd known each other for two or three hours. For all the common-sense reasons (and more) that others have mentioned, I don't have any regrets about not doing so. A pregnancy is absolutely, positively the last thing I need, followed by an infection I can't get rid of and a nut job I can't get rid of. You can take precautions, but I have no idea whether he would have been careful or not. And if he were interested in more than sex, he'd have asked me to more than beer and a movie at his place.

I'm one of tose people that treats dating like courting. I was looking for someone wo loved me for me, and I wasn't really interested in sex.
I dumped my first boyfriend after two months, because I realized I would never want to marry him. We were both 18 and still virgins.
I fell hard for my second boyfriend. We had sex after three months together. Now, after four years, we're engaged!
I suppose some men might call me prudish for waiting so long, but I'm very happy with the way things devloped. I was pretty naive about sex, and genuinely not interested. (I wasn't denying access as some kind of power play.) Now that I've done it, I'm Very interested! :P

"Also, do you really need to have actual intercourse with a person to know whether or not you are sexually compatable? I mean, I've never had a fantastic make-out session or third base run, only to find out that the intercourse itself was unacceptable. That makes no sense to me."

This. I certainly understand the desire to find out about sexual compatibility before wasting a lot of time, because I had, when I was dating, some very awkward moments after some very awkward sex. If you've had a lot of dates beforehand and things seemed to be going well until the point of having sex, it becomes pretty obvious why you're ending things, even when you make other excuses.

But I also discovered that guys are rarely bad in bed if they can kiss well and passionately. And heavy petting can usually tell you a lot about how your bodies are likely to fit together. So, though I never had a hard and fast rule about it, my typical trajectory was making out 1st/2nd date, heavy petting 2nd/3rd date, then sex if I felt good about the previous dates.

Also, it may be a generational thing, but I tended to wait longer if I really thought the relationship had long-term potential. If I suspected the guy could end up being my husband someday, I was more interested in appearing ladylike and selective. Totally different than just being horny.

I wish the word "rule" wasn't being used, even in quotes. It's creepy, and too many people can't grasp that it SHOULDN'T be a rule, even if 99% of people were to agree with it.

When I was in my teens (in the 1980s) I couldn't even grasp the idea of a "summer romance" (meaning, getting emotionally involved with someone you knew you wouldn't get to see again). To me, that sounded about as appealing as stuffing yourself with candy after starving for three days. In the same vein, no one should have to say out loud: "I wouldn't marry anyone after just three dates; don't ask me to sleep with you after three dates."

As Miss Manners wrote: "A lady does not give reasons for not being accessible to a particular gentleman. She doesn`t explain why she won`t go out with him, she doesn`t explain why she won`t marry him and she doesn`t explain why she won`t do anything in between.

"The very notion that every lady would yield, if she didn`t have a compelling reason not to, is insulting. However, the rule against explaining is not made for the convenience of ladies so much as it is for the protection of gentlemen. They may think they want to hear why a particular lady is turning them down, but they are mighty unhappy when they do."

(Granted, MM wasn't talking about women who wanted to hold on to men who misread the women's modesty as rejection. If she were, she might have said something about stating one's values indirectly, in advance, such as: "Isn't it sad, nowadays, how so many couples who could have had happy marriages have sex after just three dates and break up instead?")

Of course, unfortunately, sometimes money is a nasty issue. If you're the type of old-fashioned woman who thinks the man should do most of the inviting and paying, you have to be prepared to make it clear that you'll make it up to him after marriage, as a submissive wife. Or something like that. Otherwise, for goodness' sake, take turns playing host; buy only dinners you can afford; and if you don't like dates that usually involve spending money, don't expect him to like them either.
______________________

Once I went out with a guy with whom I had fantastic chemistry, and we decided to change our usual script and date for an entire month before we slept together. I think we both dug the challenge of making the other person want it as much as possible while resisting it ourselves. Of course, this became a game of prolonged sexual denial, and therefore a sex game. We'd go out a few times a week, flirt outrageously and very pointedly /not/ have sex. We both thought we were falling in love.

When the time was up, we had sex, and it was great, but soon after we realized we weren't that into each other. Sexual tension and anticipation had been carrying us along the whole time, and had helped us to ignore everything we disagreed on.

Posted by: Insufficient Poison at March 9, 2012 7:22 AM
_________________________

The trouble with both sex and abstinence is that either one can make you delusional (especially as a teen). That is, either one can make you think you're in love when you're not. Which is why you can't use the agony of abstinence as an excuse to get married at, say, 18 or even 20.

And finally, sex muddles the brain and makes you emotionally vulnerable to someone who may not have your best interests in mind. As psychiatrist Miriam Grossman wrote in her book "Unprotected" (2006, quoting a college student): "Why do they tell you how to protect your body...but they don't tell you what it does to your heart?" (That is, young women often find themselves with men whom they've grown to love but who don't want to spend time with them outside of bed. Very painful. Not to mention how awkward things will be when they stop having sex.)

I suspect Laura Sessions Stepp's 2007 book "Unhooked: How Young Women Pursue Sex, Delay Love and Lose at Both" is similar. Doesn't have as many reviews, however.

Forgot to mention Tom Carey's two very funny books: "The Modern Guide to Sexual Etiquette for Proper Gentlemen and Ladies" (1987) and "The Modern Guide to Sex Etiquette, Too!"(1995).

In the first, he says on page 58 (he's clearly joking, given how strong the AIDS scare was at the time):
"Not sleeping with someone after a date nowadays is like saying, 'I have gotten to know you a little bit, and I doubt if you are capable of providing me with a decent orgasm.' It is very rude. Unless, of course, he drives an unacceptable car. Then it is polite to refuse to have sex."

And, from the second book, page 78:
"I'm afraid I have to stress here, ladies, that should you be afraid of catching a bunch of nasty diseases from your partner, you don't know him well enough to be having sex with him. Actually, you don't know him well enough to be in the same room with him."

I think it was PJ O'Rourke who said that the automobile you drive would, in California, signal which of the six or so opposite sexes you were.

And Robert Heinlein made it very clear in stories about the Howard Families and in Stranger In A Strange Land that a religious ban against premarital sex leads to most of the unhappiness and cheating that follows, today.

3rd date rule is a total must. Most women know fromn the first time they see you with in 5 minuites if you are their type and would consider having sex with ypu. 3rd date rule is really keeps guys out of the friendzone...If make the man put his intentions out there and if the woman is not feeling you or wasting time and you are spending money on dinners and dates....the 3rd date rule puts a measuring stick on it. I don't mean you have to have sex but you need to have a romantic exchange that includes atleast passionate kissing....if not guys and gals move on.....