I know a couple of people in this situation. I even know one couple where it's more of a mail-order husband.

The thing is to be realistic about what's going on. It's a business deal, and both parties should be clear about this:

- The man wants to skip all the dating stuff, and land a woman who is - physically - out of his league. For this, he is willing to sacrifice educational, cultural and even language compatibility. He expects the woman to play a particular role: to be a submissive, stay-at-home wife who likes to have sex.

- The woman wants to move to a country with a much higher standard of living. She may also expect a certain amount of money that she can send back to her family. For this, she is willing to play the role mentioned above.

As long as both parties understand the arrangement, and the personal chemistry works, why not? It's nothing more or less than a years-long escort arrangement.

Oh, the guy probably shouldn't forget is that the deal has an expiry date. Once the woman is integrated into society: once she speaks reasonable English and has acquired permanent residency or citizenship, she may well leave.

They have a manual they pass around in the Asian countries, they just don't look at sex and marriage the way we do.
Not that long ago here in the US when the west was being opened many bride and grooms met through correspondence.
I have a brother who is married to a Japanese woman and quite honestly her family has more wealth than ours.
Not everyone is seeking the same things from marriage, one is to be open and honest about what you are seeking from the marriage.
I also want to say that when we marry here in the US "for better for worse" does not mean that every crappy mood or past familial hurt needs to be played out in our marriage. It's not an open forum to be take advantage someone's presence.
I love being married and I like the boring stuff, the day in and out routine but I kid you not I am not to be taken for granted.

> As long as both parties understand the
> arrangement, and the personal chemistry
> works, why not?

Because both parties usually DON'T understand the arrangement. The neediness on both side of the contract is too great.

There's nothing morally wrong with it (in my opinion), but it's impossible to look at their wedding picture and not know at once that it's a transaction. You don't have to marry a foreigner for that to be true, though.

It would bother me a lot to believe that my spouse was with me because of my money. I don't think my ego could take it. Some people, and this includes rich and famous women who marry younger men, must not mind.

What does bother me is a person of 60 having a kid. That seems too old to be an active parent.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/housewife-charged-in-sexforsecurity-scam,1773/

What does bother me is a person of 60 having a kid. That seems too old to be an active parent.

It depends on the parent. My father was 60 when my parents adopted me. He was financially secure and retired when I was very young, so he had plenty of time for me. He drove me to school and made my lunches and helped me practice for softball games. What he lacked in the energy he might have had at 30 he made up for in sheet quantity of time.

"he is willing to sacrifice educational, cultural and even language compatibility"

Actually the only one I know is pretty much the opposite. He is 1st gen American from india, came here when he was a kid. Although it is part arranged marriage part mail order. it is because of cultural compatability, higher eduation and language compatibility than with any American women. Her family was far from poor.

I am married to a Russian woman who is 16 years my junior. I met her when I was living in Moscow 8 years ago. I have many ex-pat friends who are married to Russian women. Almost all met their wives living in Russia. Not one of those marriages ended because the wife initiated divorce. I know a few American men were this is the case.

In my informed opinion, Russian women are looking for security. In Russia, there are a few wealthy to upper middle class men for every 3 women. When those men marry they usually cheat. So if you are faithful and provide a middle class existence then you are a star in a Russian woman's eyes. I have had a rough 5 years. My business went under, I put on 60 pounds, I became depressed but my wife did not leave me. She even went to school and now has a thriving career. She did tell me to stop feeling sorry for myself and get my butt off the couch.

When you have grown up in a communist country, lived through Russian winters in poorly constructed Soviet housing without indoor toilets then losing your job in the US even with 9% unemployment is not a tragedy. All Americans are spoiled compared to those from 3rd world countries. Adversity breaks some people but it makes other people stronger and you want those strong people on your side when the going gets tough.

And one more thing. Game is extremely important for Russian women. Feminine women respond to alpha males.

I expect "marriage as transaction" to become less frowned upon in the coming decades. Kind of like it was many decades ago.

I'm more horrified by his neighbor who called the cops. She needs to mind her own business.

Joe J's and Bill C's stories don't sound like mail-order bride stories to me. It sounds like Joe's friend had an arranged marriage like a lot of Indians still do, and Bill C just fell in love with a Russian chick while in Russia.

Documentary coming out about Chinese Mail Order brides.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/03/12/seeking-asian-female-explores-sex-and-race/

Because both parties usually DON'T understand the arrangement. The neediness on both side of the contract is too great.

Posted by: Crid at March 27, 2012 8:16 AM

Yeah, as if that isn't like most "regular" American marriages these days.

...Bill C just fell in love with a Russian chick while in Russia.

I agree in part. I met my wife in March and we were engaged by June, married in September. Very fast but it wouldn't have been much different with a mail order bride. A woman who arrives to the U.S. on a K-1 visa can stay in the here for 6 months before they get married. Plenty of time to see if there is basic attraction/compatibility. I would argue that it is better to marry outside of the U.S. because the laws are much more favorable. No VAWA in Russia. In fact, a fellow expat told me that if your wife calls the police to complain that you hit her they would tell her to stop bothering you.

I learned to like the Russian police. Always fairly pleasant, they were much more friendly than most American cops. Probably because they knew you were their source of income/bribes.

Off topic: Rachel Lucas is back actually blogging again, with long posts and plenty of her photos.

Lovely stuff.

Bill,

It's a good thing that a battered wife can't get help from the police? That cops are easy to bribe and friendly if they think you can afford it?

You're painting a picture wherein Russian men/life are so bad for women, they'll latch on to an American man who--if the societies were equal--would have a much lower market value than her.

I couldn't know that about my partner and still feel happy with him. I would feel like I'd cheated the system, and that I might lose him if my fortunes changed.

When I was in Greece a few years ago, I experienced this the other way: Men throwing themselves at me, pulling over their bikes to call out to me, babbling compliments, praising my looks, begging me to have dinner. I'm used to attention from men, but nothing like this. I think I was a walking green card in their eyes.

I would not have wanted relationships with any of them for that reason. It wasn't about /me/.

We also have a friend who met his Russian wife while he was working in Moscow. They're a pretty solid couple, just had their second child, and have been married at least 10 years. It's not a mail-order, trophy wife situation, though. I don't think he was looking for a wife when he went to work there. I've been told that American men are a pretty hot commodity over there.
*BUT*
When I was cocktailing in a "Gentlemen's Club" years ago, we had Russian strippers come through occasionally. They were always super-hot but plastic, alpha-strippers. They always made tons of money, could do all the crazy pole acrobatics, and never stuck around for more than a week. They were also ALWAYS former mail-order brides who had left their American husbands.

I see the myth of the submissive Asian woman is being bandied about again. It's like the unicorn, a legend that does not exist. You see good manners, the public face, and the conclusion you reach is understandable, but wrong.

That stereotype about wanting to come to a rich country like the US - Wanda said it. The Japanese are the wealthy ones, not us. It's not that one place is better than the other, they are different (sometimes Earth and Mars different.) A lot of people can't adjust to that. Most people don't want to deal with it. For a few of us, it's fascinating.

If you are sacrificing language and cultural compatibility, you're doing it wrong. Nobody needs to lose anything, we get both languages, both cultures, two kinds of food and twice as many holidays.

You're painting a picture wherein Russian men/life are so bad for women, they'll latch on to an American man who--if the societies were equal--would have a much lower market value than her.

I couldn't know that about my partner and still feel happy with him. I would feel like I'd cheated the system, and that I might lose him if my fortunes changed.

Yes. Life in Russia sucks for women and that is why they value a stable, beta provider husband more than American women. American women have the option of having a career so they do. Then they find out that a career is no replacement for a good man. It's about priorities and Russian women put family before their personal happiness. (The Moscow and St. Pete girls are getting pretty corrupted however. I recommend men look at the provincial towns.

We also have a friend who met his Russian wife while he was working in Moscow. They're a pretty solid couple, just had their second child, and have been married at least 10 years. It's not a mail-order, trophy wife situation, though. I don't think he was looking for a wife when he went to work there. I've been told that American men are a pretty hot commodity over there.

We have been married for 7 years and are working on our second child. I think living over there is a good idea because you get a chance to understand the culture, pick up some of the language, meet her friends and family. A American man will date 1.5 to 2 degrees higher in Russia than the U.S. Ideally, men will do what I did and live there for a couple of years and get married in that time. You need some time to get to know their character.

Get established in a career then take a sabbatical. Don't be constrained by western standards. A lot of 19-24 year old women want to date 33-40 year old men. It is fairly common there. Read Chateau Heartiste and learn game concepts and be the Alpha American. My wife is a rock when it comes to character and she was like that at 20 when I met her. Her mother was my biggest advocate and we made sure to get her a green card asap. Life is good, I highly recommend considering Eastern Europe for marriage material but men should be realistic. If you hardly ever dated in the U.S. you will not get a super model, at least the super model will not stick around. Met the girls family and judge her by them and her friends. Character is taught.

Finally, ignore the haters. There are a lot of men who have succeeded at this and we are more than willing to share our experiences to smooth your trip.

So this Haldane sounds like a piece of work. He did what we sometimes accuse women of wanting to do: "trade up" his spouse for a newer, sexier model. Her being a mail-order bride is beside the point.

MarkD, I don't think of Asian women as characteristically submissive, but I do think that the "mail-order" scenario places anyone in a submissive position. Temporarily at least.

Mail-order brides are women from undeveloped or developing locations who advertise themselves to American men through an international matchmaking agency or a web site. (They also advertise to the U.K., Canada, and other first-world countries known for better standards of living.) They're looking to get married so they can emigrate and be financially supported. Men can review a catalog of available women and choose which ones they want to contact.

I don't think a woman who comes from a wealthy family would seek to meet men this way. Not all foreigners married to Americans are "mail ordered." India's arranged marriages aren't mail-order situations either.

Here is Megan Fox as a Russian mail-order bride on SNL: http://www.hulu.com/watch/98327/saturday-night-live-russian-brides

(It's a comedy sketch. I do not believe that it really works this way.)

I met a paleo low carb woman who practices intermittent fasting.
We are in love.
Not sure these facts are germaine to this topic.
Carry on.

I met a woman who follows a low carb paleo diet and does intermittent fasting.
We love each other.
Not sure that fact is germaine to the thread.
Carry on.

Very fast but it wouldn't have been much different with a mail order bride. A woman who arrives to the U.S. on a K-1 visa can stay in the here for 6 months before they get married. Plenty of time to see if there is basic attraction/compatibility. -- Bill C at March 27, 2012 10:45 AM

IIRC, they changed the laws a few years back that stopped the "mail-order" bride on a K-1 visa, without the American first traveling to the country in question.

I've heard a lot of anecdotes about men who get a hot young mail order bride as a second wife, who don't allow them to leave the house and learn English, and the ladies have no idea what their rights are or how to function in society. Then, the man dies, and leaves everything to his first family, his "real" family.

But assuming that NOT to be the case, then who cares really, let people marry who they want.

In fact, a fellow expat told me that if your wife calls the police to complain that you hit her they would tell her to stop bothering you.

I learned to like the Russian police. Always fairly pleasant, they were much more friendly than most American cops.

***

Depends on your perspective... sounds like the OPPOSITE of friendly and pleasant to me!

Look, the only opinions that matter here are those men who have actually done it and married a women from Eastern Europe . All other opinions are useless, so for those of you who are giving your opinions, especially female Americans
Save the space for those who have the actual experience.
I'm on here looking for advise from men who have actually
Married others from Eastern Europe. Not to hear about a Greek story knowing that the Greek culture is one of the laziest and corrupt cultures in the world.

NEW DOCUMENTARY GOES INSIDE MAIL ORDER BRIDES

Post in forums and blogs about international dating, foreign women, dating , singles, documentaries

What happens when six everyday average Joe's travel to Ukraine to find wives? That's right, the same Ukraine that is now under partial occupation by Russian forces.


From Jonathan Narducci's Los Angeles-based Powershot Productions comes the latest expose into the fascinating world of international romance tours. “Love Me - The Documentary,” collaboration between Powershot and the oft-scrutinized Phoenix, Arizona-based A Foreign Affair, (whose website, loveme.com, inspired the name of the film) will debut this month at the Toronto Film Festival. A true labor of love constructed after three years of exhaustive filming, interviewing, editing, and research, “Love Me” parallel’s the experiences of six mostly middle-aged foreign bride finders as they travel to Ukraine in search of a wife.

The controversial subject of mail order brides has been hardly inconspicuous. Over the past ten years as thousands of men have paid top dollar to meet fantasy wives around the world. ABC's Nightline, The Oprah Winfrey Network, and National Geographic have all embedded on AFA's Ukrainian love tours to put a spin on why so many men are willing to go half way around the world to get a date. What makes Powershot's hour and a half film uniquely engaging? There's no spin. Six lonely men go to Ukraine to find wives. Five fall in love. Two ultimately get married and one is already a dad. We're introduced to two cuddly blondes, Inna and Vitalina, and their Ukrainian families as the girls go from first date to fiancee visa to standing at the alter in America.

Yet all is not as easy for the rest of the group. Bobby from Virginia is surprised his marriage proposal on the spot is turned down. Travis is not sure what to make of the village girl who says she loves him but asks him for too much money. Michael, a gregarious Aussie not touring with the group is clearly more in love than his fiancée appears to be. Narducci explores why some couples succeed. There's timing, chemistry, and lots of support from families. And, as Inna says, “Big Love!” More poignantly, the film asks why some mail order bride relationships fail, leaving the men disappointed and confused.

In the end, Love Me - The Documentary will ask more questions than it answers. (Narducci catches nearly everyone off guard with the simplest question of all: "What is love?") But a good number of guys, frustrated with their local dating prospects, will definitely take notice.

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDSTKy7-p1Q

Do mail order bride really exist?

The answer is Yes, and No, it really depends on your definition of mail order brides.

The historical roots of the mail-order bride industry that emerged in the 1800s in the American frontier: European American men found financial success in the migration West, but the one thing that was missing was the company of a wife. Very few women lived there at this time, so it was hard for these men to settle down and start a family. They attempted to attract women living back East; the men wrote letters to churches and published personal advertisements in magazines and newspapers. In return, the women would write to the men and send them photographs of themselves. Courtship was conducted by letter, until a woman agreed to marry a man she had never met.[9] Many women wanted to escape their present way of living, gain financial security and see what life on the frontier could offer them. Most of these women were single, but some were widows, divorcees or runaways.

During most of the 20 century, the mail order bride continued with the main method of women putting themselves in catalogs. Then men would view the women's profile, then for a fee order the women address. These became the main order bride companies business method in the 20 the century, with the fall of the Soviet union and cheap airfares, these companies spread from Asian to Eastern Europe, mainly now the Ukraine

Today most women do not leave their countries to escape poverty but to seek a man they believe will be a good husband and provider, that is family orientated and that looks at women with more respect than in many countries around the world.

With the advent of the intent, the mail order bride industry boomed into a billion dollar industry, Now with a few pictures and website, anyone could be in the mail order bride business. With hundreds of ma and pop shops opening over the last two decade, Most who were clients of one of the three original mail order bride companies, A Foreign Affair (AFA), Anastasia and EC, The owner of ForeignLadies.com met his wife while working on a tour from loveme.com, A Foreign affair still today in the largest in the industry, each week they offer tours to one of a dozen countries China to Peru and everywhere in between. The industry grew so fast in 1998, Senator Cantwell of Washington state introduces legislation to regulate the mail order bride industry. and a new law Called: "International Marriage Brokers Act" or IMBRA was born. With stiff regulations, many companies like Anastasia moved from Bride business to Fantasy Chat.

Although the industry strongly objects to the term mail order brides, saying there is no difference if man in New York courting a woman from California through match.com, then courting a woman from Russia. Critics like the Terra Justice Center has a different out look, saying these men take advantage of women oversea. But studies have contradicted these statement and show abuse is actually lower in these marriages. See "International Marriages - A Report to Congress"

So why do thousands of women join these site: Elena Kosalova of the Ukraine says, "Men here are not serious about family, they expect women to stay home while they go out each night with their friends and drink. I want a man who s serious, mature and who wants to be with his wife and family. I have met Americans in the past and they seem more reliable and mature." Elena rejects the idea she is a "Mail Order Bride"

Why do men seek a mail order bride: James Goodwin, 43 of South Carolina says, " I meet women here all the time, but I just can not find the values I am looking for.. I have dated here for more than 20 years, After three days in Kiev, I was shock at how many beautiful women I met that I would consider marrying, now I am just trying to reduce my options and pick the right one. It truly is the fastest way to find a beautiful sincere women.

So what is the cost, the cost can range greatly from site to site and from type of service, AFA or loveme.com offers everything from letter writing, tours and executive services for the rich and famous. As little as $12 to as much as $25,000. The owner John Adams say's the best way is just go over and meet then women, avoid letters and never waste money on expensive chat. You can meet up to 1000 beautiful women in just 10 days, it will be the greatest vacation of your life. Joe Nail of ForeignLadies.com, has stayed with the traditional Letter Writing, Each letter is $7.50 and but say they do plan on offer some limited chat option.

Many sites like,foreignwomen.com, PhilippineSinges.com, and UkraineSsingles.com, that offer simple unlimited membership for $29 per month. These type of site also target pacific regions, like Asia, Latin America or Eastern Europe.

There is also a site for mail order grooms; SingleMenOnline.com, that caters to men publishing their photos in hopes to meet an American Bride.

James Dunn, who is a ghost writer for review sites says "You get what you pay for. Membership sites to do not screen the members at all. so you never know who you really are writing, The big boys require the women to apply in person in one of their local offices. The companies that offer group tours will introduce you to hundreds of beautiful women, for the cost of $1000 to $3000 depending on location, about the same you would pay for any vacation. Several companies also do individual tours these can range from $750 to $1500, But only arrange one to one introductions, Always make sure they are biased in the USA or EU, Most of the complaints come from small agencies that are desperate and need to make as much as they can from you. Just a note, if the company is based in an a foreign country you will have no recourse if they do not follow through.

So do mail order brides exist, If you belive a if a woman is a mail order bride if she lives in another county then Yes, But if you believe it just another dating option like any on-line dating site, matchmaker or dating service, than No. . It really seems like a doubled standard in the world, If a women meets a man in Italy or France, then oh that is so romantic, but if a man meets a women in Philippines, than ....

Is Trump's Wife a Mail Order Bride?
Melanija Knavs, was born in 1970 in Yugoslavia, now know as Slovenia. Knavs studied design and architecture at the University of Ljubljana in Slovenia. She then worked as a model for fashion houses in Milan and Paris before relocating to New York City in 1996.

After moving to New York City , Knavs supposedly met Donald Trump at a Fashion Week party in New York City in September 1998. Their relationship gained attention after a 1999 interview on The Howard Stern Show, and additional publicity after the 2004 launch of Trump's successful business-oriented reality television show, The Apprentice. Donald Trump described their long courtship in 2005: "We literally have never had an argument, forget about the word 'fight' . We just are very compatible. We get along."
After becoming engaged in 2004, Donald Trump and Melania Knavs were married on January 22, 2005, at The Episcopal Church of Bethesda-by-the-Sea in Palm Beach, Florida, followed by a reception in the 17,000-sq.-ft ballroom at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate.

Trump has always stated he met his wife Melanija at a fashion week party in 1998. But Anna Novak a matchmaker who operated an office in Slovenia for several "Mail Order Bride" companies, including a company called A Foreign Affair, says she received a call sometime around 1995 from the head office to help arrange a call between a female member Melanija, and A VIP client she only knew as Donald. Shortly after the call, Melanija asked to be removed as a member and to have her profile completely removed from the websites.

If this was truly "The Donald" and the "Melanija" then why the secrecy? Trump was married at the time, even when they met each at the Fashion Week party. It is not a secret that Trump has had a long history of infidelity, When married to his first wife, Czech model Ivana Zelní Ková, he had an affair with actress Marla Maples, In 1992 Ivana's and Donald's divorce was finalized, shortly thereafter Donald sued Ivana for $25 million, alleging she was not honoring a gag clause in their divorce agreement by disclosing facts about him. Maples and Donald were married the following year after his first divorce on December 20, 1993. The couple's divorce finalized in June 1999, nearly one year after the Fashion Week party where supposedly Donald met Melanija for the first time.

A spoke's person for A Foreign Affair' in Phoenix AZ, says. "We have a strict confidentiality policy so we can not make any comments about any member or client." They did admit they do help many rich and or famous clients find love overseas.