Welcome
Have Fun and Enjoy Your Beaches*

*Although we'll treat you like eighth graders the entire time you're here.

On the other hand, I'd imagine managing a crowded, busy beach must be pretty chaotic. Are all these rules in response to problems the Santa Monica Community and Cultural Services Department has been asked to control?

Oh. So you define "Not being rude to your fellow beach goers and/or trashing the environment"as no fun. I see.

Very interesting for a woman who writes etiquette books.

You saw the no dog rule and got mad, didn't you?

And don't bother coming up here to Washington state, as we are apparently huge sticks in the mud for treating our beaches as sanctuaries.

DBSS, while I don't presume to speak for our gracious hostess, I think the post was meant humorously -- the juxtaposition of "Have Fun" with a list of restrictions which, if written in stone, would have given Moses a hernia.

Now there's a project for the Occupy crowd! Drums, 'loitering' (i.e. fucking) under piers, camping...

If they want to regain the rights of the 99%, looks like a good place to start.

DBSS, please interpret "No dressing or undressing on the beach" for me. So I can't wear a t-shirt and take it off to swim? If I turn up naked, presumably I'm not allowed to put cloths on I brought with me? It's stupid, pure and simple.

@DBSS:

- No dogs (screw that family outing)

- No ball playing (screw the kids having fun)

- Don't change clothes (Huh? I have to drive here in my swimsuit?)

- No sleeping (WTF?).

- No alcohol (Why should anyone care if I drink a beer or a glass of wine?).

- No drums (But you can play music? WTF?)

I don't think it's humorous at all - this is classic "nanny state". Just say "be polite". Well-behaved dogs, ball-players, musicians, nappers, clothes-changers and drinkers are all no problem. Misbehavior can be anything.

Trying to enumerate all the ways people can be idiots is fruitless, and needlessly restrictive for the vast majority of well-behaved people.

No drums or percussion instruments. Bring on the sax, trumpet and the rest of the band!

> No ball playing (screw the kids having fun)

Actually, you can play ball, but only in designated areas

> Don't change clothes (Huh? I have to drive here
> in my swimsuit?)

Actually, no dressing or undressing on the beach. Go to the change rooms to do that.

"Trying to enumerate all the ways people can be idiots is fruitless, and needlessly restrictive for the vast majority of well-behaved people."

Fruitless and needlessly restrictive, yes. But I suspect "be polite" probably won't cut it either, since people's concept of what's polite and acceptable varies a lot.

I have no idea how crowded that beach gets, but as I suggested earlier, the rules on the sign, with their almost comical specificity, are possibly in response to specific complaints or issues the Santa Monica government is trying to control. I don't envy them.

An aside: I've never been to that part of California. Is it a nice beach? Does it get very crowded? Do a lot of families go there?

> The way that sign is written basically makes
> it illegal to…

Only basically. Presumably if you were jogging with an Ipod with nobody within six hundred yards, the cops wouldn't bother to detain you unless you were carrying a bong or a still or and opium extraction unit of some kind.

Santa Monica is world-famous for that beach. It's the shimmering quintessence of one of the finest tax bases in the history of municipal settlement.

They want to take care of it.

You can listen to audio devices with headphones:

http://www.qcode.us/codes/santamonica/index.php?topic=4-4_12-4_12_100

And here's the rule on changing on the beach:

http://www.qcode.us/codes/santamonica/index.php?topic=4-4_08-4_08_070

You just can't change in/out of your actual suit ON the beach. They don't want you stripping naked in public or stripping your kids behind a towel. There are changing rooms for that. And I think most people go to the beach wearing their suit under their clothes, under a cover-up, or as their shorts.

I know this is a comically long list, but I think most of the rules are reasonable. It's easier to enforce polite behavior if you have something to point to.

Do we really need a law to not trash the environment, and do you think it would actually stop people who would trash the environment from littering?

Sadly, a lot of people really do need specific rules.

I don't think this would stop people from doing these things if they intended to, but it gives authorities the ability to eject people who are being awful for breaking a specific rule. It's easier than saying, "You need to leave for being an asshole" and having the beach-goer try to force a definition of "being an asshole."

I really think common sense covers that one. "Don't make noise early in the morning or late at night." Maybe a lot of beach goers don't realize how far their music carries, or how many residences are within earshot. If it said "unless you have earphones" (duh) or "don't get totally naked," would you be any less displeased? Didn't you already say the sign was too specific?

If you're seriously unsure about your iPod with headphones, then yes, you could look it up. But I don't believe that's confounding anyone in real life.

This does seem to be a rather ridiculous litany of rules. On the other hand, I can see a number of points on the list that I'd be happy to see enforced. Why? Too many rude people with no sense of other people's comfort.

I think that's the bottom line here - in a society with increasing self centeredness and oblivion to others' comfort, more rules are needed. Which in turn, generates its own issues. A circular problem. The answer isn't more rules but a deeper, society-wide respect and sensitivity for other people's comfort and willingness to compromise and adjust as needed.

...in a society with increasing self-centeredness and oblivion to others' comfort, more rules are needed.

Totally agree, and how sad is that?

The answer isn't more rules but a deeper, society-wide respect and sensitivity for other people's comfort and willingness to compromise and adjust as needed.

Also agreed, but how is this to be achieved? There are SO many people who just don't get it, and they spawn, and their kids don't get it, and on and on. Unless kids are taught about being considerate of others from a young age, the whole idea of being mindful of others is a moot point.

Flynn wrote: "Also agreed, but how is this to be achieved?"

True. Easy to say what "should" be done. Much harder to implement it.

First step is awareness. People speaking out, like Amy has done. Concerned, angry, courageous people spoke out in the last decades about sexual molestation by Catholic priests and gay/lesbian rights. As a result, society wide attitudes about these issues HAVE changed, esp. among young people coming along now.

Granted, these shifts in consciousness don't happen overnight. The road to social transformation is usually long and messy. But it will happen and the results will be more noticeable in the next generation.

Agreed, the list is ridiculous, in form if not in content.

But I live in Santa Monica and basically NONE of these thing gets enforced unless someone is being obnoxious and there are complaints.

So they are a fall-back for the cops. Here's the converse of Amy's logic that there's no need to have an anti-litter law because only scofflaws litter: there's no harm in having a lot of (mostly unenforceable) rules, because people can figure out how much leeway they have to bend or break them.

Hey, it's about the only area of critical thinking left in American public life.

The "no sleeping" rule is the best one. Is someone going to go around kicking all of the sunbathers to make sure they don't doze off?

Und now ees ze time on Zprockets when ve... stand on the beach quivietly!

Yea, the list is long; but, unfortunately, it is needed as there are way too many folks who don't have consideration for others. Hence the reason for this long list.

And, the list is most likely posted because way too many of those inconsiderate folks claim "I didn't know." Well, now you do!

This does seem to be a rather ridiculous litany of rules. On the other hand, I can see a number of points on the list that I'd be happy to see enforced. Why? Too many rude people with no sense of other people's comfort.

Posted by: RationalReader

You know why there are so many rude inconsiderate people? Becuase pansys like you would rather rely on governemnt rules for polite behavior rather than checking your nuts, getting off you fat ass walking half a dozen feet and telling some one to knock it the hell off before you put your foot up their ass

It's amazing how much better your spelling gets when you are spewing venom out of your asshole. Yeah, you are the absolute embodiment of polite behavior.

"Becuase pansys like you would rather rely on governemnt rules for polite behavior rather than checking your nuts, getting off you fat ass walking half a dozen feet and telling some one to knock it the hell off before you put your foot up their ass"

Who are you speaking to, dude? I have no problem telling someone to cut out rude behavior. Or to use a damn spell checker.

I'm sorry caustic, but before we go any further you mind pointing out where/when I ever said any sort of "embodiment of polite behavior" let alone the absolute one?

Hey, looks like the beach signs were put up for somebody on here!

Meanwhile...

"Do you really think the assholes at the beach are reading the signs?"

No, I don't think they are reading the signs; but with a posted sign they (and especially their lawyers) cannot claim ignorance. That was my point.

Yea, it would be nice if folks were considerate of others; but, too many folks are not. I live on the Jersey shore and the number of "assholes" who come to the shore is the reason with have similar signs. I can't speak for California; but for too many folks here "But, we're at the shore" seems to be their justification for being a jerk. And oftentimes it is misbehaviour that they would never do in their own town; being "at the beach" makes them stupid - So, I support the signs.

About the only one I can agree with, as written, is the no glass containers.

And my question as far as animals -- what do they do about stray cats using the beach as a large sandbox?

And since you now can be strip searched for any of these violations -- are they still reasonable?