Further news here.

And before one laughs, one might realize that this is a Java exploit, that can get PCs too.

Vaccination works!

But Amy!... How can this be?

Macs don't GET viruses!

We know this, because we've heard it so often over the years! Macs don't get viruses because their owners are a higher caliber of human being! They demand a greater level of performance from everything that touches their lives! Because they're better people!

So, therefore, Macs don't GET viruses!

(Har!)

Hahah!

Ahhh, Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha........

So, Crid...

That makes it about 150 thousand... to one.

Laugh yourself silly. Oop. Already there.

Never been a problem for me, and I've enjoyed having extra money for scuba. Now, for video, Macs have had their purposes. But still:

I hate Macs. I have always hated Macs. I hate people who use Macs. I even hate people who don't use Macs but sometimes wish they did. Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work; computers for people who earnestly believe in feng shui.

"Intuitive"? Merely fashionably arcane, which is not the same thing. (Option-backspace to delete a file? Two hands on the keyboard? really? Ah well, the Appple Computer Corporation is gone, anyway...)

Gee, I don't get it. You get a Mac, you can run Windows and Linux and Unix™ and all sorts of things on it. At the same time. Memory, hard disks, optical drives, attachments from PCs all fit.

And I've had one hard disk failure, at all, in the last 20 years - in a Powerbook 100. Bought secondhand. Yes, I have a G4, 12 years old, noisily blowing air around on the desk next to me. I also have a pretty impressive homebuilt PC on the desk, that I don't use. Why should I? The screen looks grainy no matter what I do. No, it's not the monitor. Wanna try to tell me about drivers and make my case for me?

Don't mistake fiddling with your computer for getting things done - or a hundred different manufacturers doing the same thing as 100% good. There's the "broken window" meme if there ever was one: the idea that external support should be a feature. You're lying to yourself, not me, when you do that.

The market is taking care of things. I'm happy that you can get what you want.

I object to basic architecture of the OS changing at Apple more frequently than with the PC. I admire Windows for its ability to boot from an LP record. And I go through more hoops to get ordinary things done at work, where I use a PC about 8 of the 10 hours a day I spend there, and where decisions are not made by ROI. The PC still hasn't figured out how to cut and paste across programs without third-party stuff like SnagIt. Engineering - and this should amaze you - still hasn't figured out how to embed Excel tables in Word documents (they don't scale in XP). There are serious productivity issues set aside by the need to show that we are employing people. Those employed do not have the same goals I do.

Whatever.

Still I can comment...

Just makes me think of supply/demand and economic forces. Beware MAC people, now that there is a enough of a DEMAND aka Mac owners, the SUPPLY providers aka the virus/malware makers will rush to cover this new market.

I mean if the market of Apple user was 5 percent of the total years ago. It was not worth the effort to go after. Same with any Linux systems. Not worth it as too few people use and most Linux users will very likely be capable computer users and not easier to dupe. The ironic part is Apple users are the complete opposite, less capable, and likely easier to dupe.

So as more people use Apple products, more malware makers will set their sights on it. As above with the following news.

Thinking more of this, I see more IPhone and IPad viruses coming. Since Apple tries to keep it system closed and regimented, which irks customers. So people when told then can not do something want to modify or use an non Apple app proceed to jailbreak or root said devices. People do not understanding that which allows you to break the rules/system will be used to by others to break the system.

Me, I am fine with with my PC/Windows laptop. It has been running about 3 years now on the same install. Even worse it is Windows Vista. I could go with 7, but things are working fine so have no need.

I have had no viruses (some scares) and me I have been a dirty dirty boy around the Internet. Just learned some simple rules to keeping SAFE.

As to people who say everything is fine. Apple is still good, it is JAVA fault are deluding themselves. A system is only a good as ALL its parts. Do not try to put the blame on JAVA or any other program. It could be a PDF with an exploit tailored to APPLE next.

Passing the blame is just as bad as being a TSA representative and saying whoops sorry this guy got on a plane with a gun, it is not our fault. Something else interfered with the system. Trust us the system still works, but by the way now we have to now start strip searches....

> Don't mistake fiddling with your computer
> for getting things done

And don't mistake muscular marketing for elegant design. Macs are at best every bit as arcane, unreliable, and cumbersome as any other platform, and quite often worse... They just appeal to a sort of person for whom taking an extra seven seconds for a keystroke's worth of routine operation is not a problem, i.e., "I usually just use the mouse."

> now that there is a enough of a DEMAND aka Mac
> owners, the SUPPLY providers aka the
> virus/malware makers will rush to cover
> this new market.

'Zactly.

Crid, you can say all the things you want about macs, but there are 2 places I see a LOT of growth in mac usage:

1. IT people, both windows and unix admins (I'm a unix admin myself). Many of us got tired of dealing with windows issues and despite using linux during my day, I still prefer to not tinker with it all the time just to use a computer at home. The fact that OSX is based on unix makes it mix with the unix/linux systems I admin at work that much easier.

2. Friends and family of pretty much everyone I know, most of whom were long time windows users. They found moving to a mac quite simple and have had FAR less issues with their computers. Even my father, who's a complete idiot with computers (despite working on telephone systems his entire life and being a genius on those), has been far happier with a mac. Though I'm still keeping an eye out on him with things like this popping up.

Ah well, the Appple Computer Corporation is gone, anyway...
and has the highest market cap right now. I wish I could fail the way Apple apparently is in so many eyes. iPhone 4S.. disappointing failure.. huge profits. Latest iPad... disappointment... huge profits.

> I have yet to need directions for my Mac.

This speaks more to the simplicity of your needs than to the coherence of the design. How many times have you needed fresh software? For how many OS overhauls have you been asked to chuck it all and start over? My 64-bit Wintel machine can run precisely the same word processor I was running in Reagan's first term... The same exact executables. Protecting his customers from obsolescence while sustaining the growth of processing power is what made Bill Gates the richest man in the world.

> They found moving to a mac quite simple and have
> had FAR less issues with their computers. Even
> my father, who's a complete idiot with computers

"Fisher-Price". I haven't owned an automatic transmission since the divorce. Again, if you don't mind going through all the ritual of operating a Mac, with it's precious, plodding, devotional Mass, knock yourself out.

Essentially, EVERY item on a Windows menu set is a keyboard macro. It's more than ironic that Jobs, who gave us the conventional layout of drop-downs, couldn't follow through on this interface. Details like that, with observance of global standards throughout the system, and for a much lower price, is what made Windows the operating system worth vandalizing.

> and has the highest market cap right now. I
> wish I could fail the way Apple apparently is
> in so many eyes.

They've failed me; No one can doubt that they've been good to themselves.

But I'll never understand how people can take pride in being on the other side of that wealth transfer.

"It could be a PDF with an exploit tailored to APPLE next."

Irony.

Since Apple uses Display Postscript to write to the screen, its app, "Preview" handles .pdf content. Preview has no internal coding which calls out of the system.

There is no security issue on which you can ding a Mac that isn't a thousand times worse on the PC, and that should be obvious to anyone. What remains is the individual decision as to how involved one wants to be with the computer itself.

Gee, Crid, have fun with your stick-shift!

> There is no security issue on which you can ding
> a Mac that isn't a thousand times worse on the PC

Again, the popularity/strength of the platforms historically explains this.

> the individual decision as to how involved one
> wants to be with the computer itself.

Serious data processing will always require advanced understanding and often training. Knocking out an RTF, which you will store on your desktop or a USB, not as much... Hence the response to Amy.

> have fun with your stick-shift!

Technique, not tools.

Well Radwaste - irony back at ya.

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/08/03/210205/iphone-jailbreak-uses-a-pdf-display-vulnerability

Once again a system is only good as its parts. Software, hardware, and wetware. A PDF may be exploitable not just through Adobe, it can be from any program that uses PDF. Adobe has those vulnerabilities and constantt updates because they are the most common program that uses it. And more people who test it out.

Apple and Macs are just programs programmed by flawed humans. Bugs, exploits and vulnerabilities are everywhere. Research scientists have hacked cars via the radio! Why because the wanted to see if it could be done. SO the effort was put in. The US government has paid a company to find vulnerabilities in Video game consoles like the X-Box or Playstation. Why because maybe some foreign target children plays the X-box and with some ingenuity maybe it can be turned in a bug or send info back. The demand is there it will be done.

Apple for the longest time relied upon security through market share. Nobody will go after us we are too small. Better and bigger targets to go after. Heck I will agree easier.

Things have changed, they grew and got more customers. The world of crackers, viruses, and the net changed too. It is an industry now and sorry in business you leave nothing to chance.

Now Apple is trying to provide Security though Rules. Sorry you can not have the program because we say so. You will go our way. But if you follow out rules we will make things all easier for you. Hmm Mac Users are like children in a way.

Got to stop ranting.

As a side note. I really do not care for the whole Mac/Windows debate. Use whatever you want, people and how ever you want to use it. For some people MAC do what they need done. If it satisfies you - great.

Just do not be all smug about it. Good for you your drive a Prius. Yes you care about the environment and ride a bike. Wow, that cheese is from France. Wow SOFA is by a famous designer. Ad naseum.

Me I am fine with my McD burger sans bun. Fine drinking a blended scotch, and using my Sony Laptop with Windows Vista. Just stop thinking you are better then me because of my machine. That is beyond silly.

Technique, not tools all the way.

> I really do not care for the whole Mac/Windows
> debate.

I love it. I love it so... I love its expositions of character in big business, consumer and industrial markets, international relations, government regulation, and individual fulfillment.

It makes the USA's old railroad gauge fights look like a teenage sweetheart's spat.

Option-backspace to delete a file? Two hands on the keyboard? really?

I don't know which keyboard you are using, but it isn't a two handed move on mine. So that would be not really.

I'll bet there is some human factors design at work here. Since the consequences of a inadvertently deleted file are much higher than for individual items within a file, requiring two keys instead of one to delete a file makes sense.

[BTW, I have an MS in Computer Science, and have worked in electrical and software engineering. Until System 7, winboxes -- IMHO -- were inferior in every way except price, and even that advantage was eroded by costs of ownership. And the only reason winboxes weren't worse is because of Apple.]

My bet is that Apples aren't as vulnerable to viruses and malware as Windows machines. The 16% market share figure bandied about as the incentive threshold is probably way high. After all, unlike the fans of the BSOD, Mac users as a group have no protection beyond the OS itself.

So, if the OS is no help, then Mac users should be an extremely vulnerable target, which would make them well worth exploiting even at low market share.

"Apple for the longest time relied upon security through market share. Nobody will go after us we are too small. Better and bigger targets to go after. Heck I will agree easier."

For over 25 years now, I have heard about how market share is important (those damn Porsches and Lexuses are really crummy, that's why there are so few of them) and how Apple is broke (they've had more cash in hand through most of their history than MS, and yes I know that's only part of it).

But this market share vs. vulnerability is complete nonsense. Early on, the performing arts took to Apple in droves, packing billions of dollars in original intellectual property onto the platform. It sure was an advantage that early Macs had no "console" function or remotability, but if you don't think that this material's apparent security was a function of the platform, and not low numbers, then I suggest you just don't know what was on it out there.

At the end: OS X is a front end on BSD Unix (that ought to suggest something to you right there). The only piece you really have to buy from Apple is the motherboard - all PC architecture connects to them. The failure rate is consistently among the lowest in the industry.
So. Buy a Cobalt SS. It's a very good car. Or buy a Kompressor. Same deal. Take your pick. But don't think the Kompressor is harder to steal because there are fewer of them.

By the way, don't mistake me for being totally happy with Apple. I really wish I could use modern apps on OS9, because it is no-shit faster.

But don't think the Kompressor is harder to steal because there are fewer of them.

Hacking software and stealing cars are not comparable. It's sniper vs shotgun.

A stolen car results in a stolen asset being in the hands of an individual user. Each individual car is chosen based on its value to the thief. The sniper.

A computer virus is released into a large population in the hopes that a sufficient number of returns will provide the instigator with enough usable information (bank accounts, credit card numbers) - or sometimes just to mess with people and gain notoriety. Either way, the shotgun.

In a shotgun attack, you shoot for the denser areas of the flock in hopes of hitting more targets.

So, yes, market share was a defense for Apple and a vulnerability for Microsoft.

> I don't know which keyboard you are using

Dude, I DON'T EITHER. Because STEVE WOULDN'T STOP CHANGING THE KEYBOARD.

He used it for a professional typing purpose every seventh months, and he "improved" it each time.

Many of his innovations were useful. But now that he's left us, some things will go better, as well.

I've never seen a keyboard where it can be done with one hand, but I don't doubt that he eventually built one. Yet even then, it's a chord-keystroke.

Let's say you've selected a file on your Wintel machine that you want to delete.

You press the "Delete" key.

That key is placed so that you can find it without looking. Essentially ALL desktop operations can be done from the keyboard, a boon to international users and the disabled.

Mr. Jobs was not so generous. (Fisher-Price.)

There are plenty of things you can delete in OS X with just the delete key: selected text, a photo, or a track in iTunes for just two examples.

IMHO, it is a defendable design decision to prevent the inadvertant deletion of an entire file, which would be very easy allowing just the delete key, and nearly impossible when combined with the command key.

What is gripe worthy, though, is Apple's NIH problem. My favorite thing about Windows is being able to open drop-downs with the alt key and appropriate letter. But since Apple didn't think of it first ...

BTW, here is a list of reasons why to hate Windows:

dailyduck.blogspot.com/2008/01/my-next-it-purchase-12-gauge-shotgun.html#comments

As for the Fisher-Pricing, I don't get it. I can, and have, changed my computer's behavior via Unix, and probably have more flexibility open to me via that route than is available to Winboxes.

One more BTW: I hope McLaren runs away with the 2012 championship, solely by virtue of not being ugly with intent to frighten horses, women, and children.

"Hacking software and stealing cars are not comparable."

Wrong.

Again: Early on, the performing arts took to Apple in droves, packing billions of dollars in original intellectual property onto the platform.

Car thieves do NOT just go after any car they can get. They go after what is valuable.

Now, consider the TWO basic values to loading malware: one is to steal content. You have seen the same thing I have - adoption of the Mac by performing artists. The other value is to use a captured PC as a tool for other nefarious work. THAT is the reward for attacking the PC. Josephine Blow, who bought on price and has no idea how a computer works, saved money by not buying security software. Didn't you see she bought cheap?

-----

I've heard about a platform-independent threat that doesn't even depend on connection to the network. Social engineering is used to get you to reveal your most intimate details for wanting to get on an airplane or to get a doctor's care. It's delivered by the agent in such a way that a lot of people believe they are actually safer while being violated. Now, that's some awesome malware!