Disgusting. This should never happen to anyone. Sounds like Skeptichick was in Barnes and Noble that day.

This kind of stuff is really sad. I remember when, years ago--before digital photos got big--a woman made headlines when she had pictures of her kids developed and the employees at the place called child protective services on her. Why? Because there was a picture of her kid in the bathtub. There was nothing "dirty" about the photo.

There's the phrase "expect the worst and hope for the best" but the mainstream media and society only remember the first part.

I was at a Barnes & Noble last night (no surprise; I live down the block and am there 4 or 5 times a week) and was browsing in the teen SF section (1 of four godkids had a birthday two days ago, another has one coming up).

As I was there I suddenly had the thought "is anyone looking at me, wondering what a 40 yo guy is doing in the teens section?"

I immediately dismissed the thought: "no, our society hasn't gotten THAT paranoid yet".

Clearly I was wrong.

> Sounds like Skeptichick was in Barnes and Noble that day.

LOL!

"It is not our policy to ask customers to leave any section of our stores without justification."

They did have justification: A woman complained.

TJIC,

If, in your shoes, anybody had approached me, I would have said, "Can't men enjoy 'Twilight' too?"

That said, I sometimes get odd looks in the SF&F section of stores. Apparently, those are only for GUYS.

People have expectations. When they are not met, it causes some sort of problem (cognitive dissonance or something). They get agitated and upset to varying degrees. I just assume they are less evolved than me because I NEVER (sarcasm) make such erroneous conclusions.

I was at the pool the other day and two women and a guy (all the same age) came in with a toddler. I honestly couldn't gauge the relationship dynamic, so I decided they were a new-age family or well-behaving ex's. Turns out it was mom + aunt & uncle.

The only way to stop this madness is for the company and the individual to pay. He should sue the woman for defamation - after all she all but accused him of being a child molester.

And sue B&N for caving in to her like the cowards they are.

This is the world you wanted, gender feminists. You like it?

> I was at the pool the other day and two women and a guy (all the same age) came in with a toddler. I honestly couldn't gauge the relationship dynamic, so I decided they were a new-age family

I've got two male friends. Each have kids. One is a single dad. One is married.

In both cases, the scenario "self+male-friend+kid out at dinner" occurs.

Especially in gay-friendly Boston, I assume that this reads as "Oh, look - that gay couple adopted!"

This showed up on Bratfree:

http://www.refugees.bratfree.com/read.php?2,212343

Clearly the Oldfather was too nice... I would have demanded the manager immediately, and gone up to the district manger if necessary... I've gotten a lot of quizzical looks too, when I buy Manga and previously when my kids were younger buying other books, but I don't let it bother me.

the easiest way to diffuse the situation is to ask for assistance from the store personnel, tell them who you are buying for, get rec's and such... but yes there is a ton of paranoia, some of it not all that unwarranted. There is a Target I frequesnt that had a guy pull a child into the bathroom a few years back.

I explained the situation to my children, and told them I'd be waiting outside the bathroom.

Honestly, were I to discover such a thing in progress, I'd prolly bust the person up fist and call the police later...

Over at Powerline blog, they did a writeup of "Reality: no match for television" which i found quite interesting, because it pointed up just such curiosities about the number of incidents of a given thing on television, and how that skew your perceptions. Killings are fairly uncommon for most people, unless they live in very specific places, but people still mispercieve how often it happens an if they should be afraid.

OTOH what people DO percieve correctly is how they will be affected themselves if something bad befalls them. for the person that the bad thing happened to, the odds were 1:1 and the horror is compelling. I think that's why humans react as they do to low probability events.

Because if they happen to you, they are terrible.

Oops, forgot the link:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/06/reality-no-match-for-television.php

The B&N employee was way stupid. If you get a complaint like that from a customer (which has never happened at my library in the 8 years I've been working). But you say "Okay, I'll keep an eye on him, ma'am." And then you go up and say "Hey, did you find everything you need?" And nine times out of ten if it's a dude in the children's room, he'll look at you in confusion and say "My grandkid needs a book on planets?" or something.

Here's the thing. You can usually tell the creepos. They skulk. They don't look at the books at all. They gravitate towards the edges of the room. We had a creepo about a year ago who was hitting up all our 21 libraries and flashing his junk at the kids. We were on the alert and we shooed him out of ours before he had the chance (using the "Did you find everything tactic?"). No muss, no fuss, and no one's offended.

"People have expectations. When they are not met, it causes some sort of problem (cognitive dissonance or something). "

Shannon, that's definitely true... and yes, a woman in the SF section might get some double takes because it's an unusual event in most areas. However, if I go up the B&N management and tell them that you shouldn't be allowed in the SF section, they won't throw you out -- they'll throw me out.

This is the world you wanted, gender feminists. You like it?

Nope. It's the world parents have made. Them, and them only.

Voris said other bookstores had encountered problems with child molesters.

I call bullshit on that. It's a throw away line you say to excuse your own abhorrent behavior.

"Nope. It's the world parents have made. Them, and them only." Kevin

I 'dun think so Kevin, this is too simple a view.

There are any number of people who will get annoyed or worried or upset On someone else's behalf.

Particularly in this respect, playing with your kids in a park can bring the ire of completely unrelated, childless women, wanting to know who you are and what you are doing. As if a father never plays with his kids.

Three years ago, when I was pregnant with our daughter, my husband and I took a "babymoon" to the Mall of America in Minneapolis. They have an amusement park in there, but since it's indoors, it's pretty small and geared toward kids. My husband wanted to go on this free-fall ride, and I don't do those. So he went on it by himself, and the whole time I was thinking I'd better make it really clear that he's with me so that nobody thinks a grown man is by himself at a children's amusement park. Really sad.

Blaming feminism is cheap and unhelpful. This isn't a result of feminism. This is an American's Most Wanted mentality, where kids are being snatched by predators ALL THE TIME, and you can prevent horrific things from happening to people by pointing a finger at anyone who looks suspicious. Suspect everyone! We've made ourselves terrified of everyone around us.

SwissArmyD, if I were a man playing with my kids in the park, I would refuse to answer any strange woman who asked me personal questions about me and my kids. Flip it around on her. "Why do you want to know about me and my kids? Are you watching them? You're being creepy. Do I need to call the police?"

And will they be firing the employees who so violated Barnes & Nobles corporate values and policies? Where is the punishment?

Oh, good lord.

The gentleman in question was not looking at the books. He was sitting on the floor making a phone call.

Considering there are chairs and couches all over the place at a b and n, this is skeevy behavior.

Blaming feminism is cheap and unhelpful.

Not really, the biggest danger a male poses to children in generally as the mothers new boyfreind.

But somehow the 'stranger' man and fathers are viewed as the greatest threat to kids - the notion didnt evolve out of nothing and men didnt push it

The guy is 73 and didnt want to sit on dwarf furniture

The gentleman in question was not looking at the books. He was sitting on the floor making a phone call.

Considering there are chairs and couches all over the place at a b and n, this is skeevy behavior. -- deathbysnoosnoo at June 5, 2012 6:22 PM

Synopsis: He had received a call on the way into the store. He went into the children's segregated area to eventually look for children's books, once he concluded his phone call. Usually the furniture in the kid's area is going to be kid sized. So he found a spot on a floor that was convenient.

There was no indication he was disturbing or trying to watch anyone.

As seen on the link that lenona provided to bratfree, I bet that if a B&N employee had walked up to him and said "Can we help you find anything?" the whole thing would have been different, even with the customer complaint.

Someone out to commit a crime would probably leave, meaning he's been noticed and knows it.

Someone just doing a call would probably try to wrap it up or somehow try to be semi-polite to the sales person.

Walking up to a customer, being accusatory and probably confrontational, is not the way to handle anything in a customer service environment.

Yes, there are rude customers, but there are rude customer service representatives that don't realize a slight touch of honey works 98% of the time. I.e. Kill them with kindness.

DBSS, your view does nothing to help, and hurts everyone.

Not really, the biggest danger a male poses to children in generally as the mothers new boyfreind.

This is related to the illusion of control. "My boyfriend would never do that to my child, but I don't know anything about that strange guy over there." We're tribal. We trust people we know over people we don't, even when that trust is unwarranted.

It's the same impulse that leads parents to ignore that more kids die in traffic accidents than are kidnapped by creepers, and drive their kids to school rather than let them walk three blocks to "keep them safe."

"I would refuse to answer any strange woman who asked me personal questions about me and my kids." - MonicaP
It's a nice sentiment... but it's not so simple. The woman could easily call the police, and they would certainly stop me as imminent danger to children... you certainly have to pick your battles.

It's a nice sentiment... but it's not so simple. The woman could easily call the police, and they would certainly stop me as imminent danger to children... you certainly have to pick your battles. -- SwissArmyD at June 6, 2012 9:42 AM

Unless B&N is wanting to trespass you for sitting on the floor and talking on your cell, you don't even have to give the police your name.

If the B&N employee is saying "I'm calling the cops because you are sitting on the floor and talking on your cell", tell them "Fine, are you going to have me cited for sitting on the floor and talking on my cell?" I bet you the answer would be "No".

I know this sounds petty, but these are your rights. Continually stand up for them or you will lose them.

Barnes and Noble is a private establishment. If you are asked to leave and refuse, you can be arrested. Conversely, we have a right to not purchase anything from them. (Howe B&N even stays in business is a mystery to me. I haven't been in one in ages, but even back then I rarely saw anyone purchase anything.)

Gadfly psychologist Bernard Chapin from Chicago did a video on this story (I haven't watched it yet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Furw5Xt8CH0

I did, however, notice that you can't see him in the video, which is very unusual. (He's in his 40s, but looks like a shaved Marine in his 20s - a pretty hostile Marine at that.) In fact, I'm guessing that all you get is his voice, and I don't understand why he chose what you DO see.