LA City Council Morons Strike Again: Time To Kill Pet Stores!
Yes, now the LA City Council has come up with a "kill policy" for pet stores, voting 12-2 to approve an ordinance to make Los Angeles the first city in America to ban pet stores from selling non-rescue animals -- in other words, dogs, cats, and rabbits obtained from commercial breeders. From the LAT:
The ordinance, which the City Council voted 12-2 to approve, targets puppy mills and is designed to cut down on the tens of thousands of animals euthanized each year in city shelters.Under the law, individuals will still be allowed to buy directly from breeders, and pet stores will be allowed to sell animals that come from shelters, humane societies and registered rescue groups. Stores found to be selling animals from breeders may face misdemeanor charges and a first-time penalty of $250.
Animal rights activists hailed L.A.'s approval of the ban as a signal to other large cities to follow suit. Irvine, Hermosa Beach and West Hollywood are among the more than 30 cities across the United States and Canada that have passed similar measures in recent years, according to Elizabeth Oreck, who has been leading the legislative effort on behalf of Best Friends Animal Society.
L.A.'s ban also sends a message, she said, to breeders who frequently cut corners to keep costs low at the expense of the animals.
"They're inbred, they're overbred, they're irresponsibly bred," Oreck said.
But pet shop owners complained the ordinance is misguided and unfair.
"It's just making us suffer," said Candice Ro, whose family has been selling small dogs, including Yorkshire Terriers and English Bulldogs, at its Koreatown pet shop for 11 years.
...The ban was championed by Councilman Paul Koretz, a longtime supporter of animal rights who said lawmakers have a duty to stick up for animals who "cannot speak for themselves."
Lawmakers have gotten in the habit of sticking their greasy fingers into our lives every orifice and it's time they got back to what their job should be -- keeping the peace, filling the potholes, and seeing that our civil liberties aren't violated.
And in the comments, let's talk about all the ways this ridiculous ordinance will backfire.
Let's see. They city council is telling a small business what products they can carry regardless of the economic impact on the business?
Then they'll be surprised when the small business goes out of business.
Jim P. at October 25, 2012 6:16 AM
"L.A.'s ban also sends a message, she said, to breeders who frequently cut corners to keep costs low at the expense of the animals."
But, individuals can buy directly from breeders; they'll just be without the expertise of somebody who knows something about pets. This is a good thing?
I sometimes buy Lucy's food at small pet stores near me. The people who own them are not animal haters determined to sell you a sick dog, cat, etc.
Amy Alkon at October 25, 2012 6:27 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/10/25/la_city_council_1.html#comment-3403339">comment from Jim P.Then they'll be surprised when the small business goes out of business.
I'm not sure who they think will pay the taxes that fund the ridiculous things they vote in, like the $100K they gave for the Gritto (Grito?) festival -- some Mexican thing in LA. I mean, you can only raise our already outrageous street cleaning tickets so much higher...until they match what people pay in car payments.
Amy Alkon at October 25, 2012 6:29 AM
"keeping the peace, filling the potholes, and seeing that our civil liberties aren't violated."
What? Actually do the job they were hired to do? Amy, you ask for too much!
Seriously, one way this might "backfire" is that pet stores might just become midddlemen, or brokers, in that they will not be "selling" the animals.
I'm not quite sure how this will work (or if it will work at all), but, let's say that rather than buying the animals myself. As a pet store owner, I "broker" a deal between the customer and the animal breeder. My store is simply used as a "display" area. Of course, I charge a fee for my broker services. And since this isn't a sale on my part, there isn't any sales tax on my broker's fee. (Take that city council - you just lost the sales tax - pffft!) Lawyers and others can chime in with how this might not work - but, it is worth a shot.
In the very least, this ordinance will cause legitimate stores to close up shop, move out of town or cause some pet sellers to move underground where they will be unregulated and untaxed. Yep, let's have "back-alley" pet sales!
Charles at October 25, 2012 6:36 AM
Wouldn't it just be easier to cut them off at the source, and ban puppy mills?
NicoleK at October 25, 2012 6:45 AM
The difference between a professional breeder and a "puppy mill" is entirely based on whether the owner of the company has a family or financial relationship with someone on the LA City Council. I could ban any restaurant if i labeled it a "vermin-infested slop house," so try to remember that the desire to ban all pet ownership (animal slavery) existed before the slanderous label of "puppy mill" came to be.
(Yes, of course you can find a terrible example of anything, somewhere. The cat's in the freezer in (name redacted) doesn't mean all asian slop houses are little diners of horror. Just that one in Woodland Park.)
Meanwhile, a few thousand dollars transferred from the League of Responsible Pet Shops to the campaign funds of a few Councilmen should take care of this problem.
Storm Saxon's Gall Bladder at October 25, 2012 7:12 AM
I suspect that LA pet stores are licensed, with the license displayed by law. This tells the consumer to be less careful about the quality of the animals for sale. The city is supposedly looking out for the consumer.
But, the license is meaningless. Its effect is to lower the effective standards for the animals. The next idea by the concerned councilmen is to attempt to force the buyer to visit the breeder, to do an inspection along the way.
Another example of government licensing decreasing quality, raising costs, and misleading the consumer.
Andrew_M_Garland at October 25, 2012 7:44 AM
Personally, it thrills me to see any shop that works with a mass breeder go out of business. Many pet stores do work with mass breeders (aka mills), although I'm sure there are some that have done their homework to find reputable breeders.
...that said, I can agree with the majority here that the way to go is not legislation. It's advocacy. Educate any friends and family who will listen to you, and encourage them to rescue a dog rather than plunk $900 down on a dog that's likely the product of a mill. Or,if they want a specific breed, explain to them how to find a reputable breeder (they're out there). Volunteer with rescue groups to make rescue dogs just as "trendy" as expensive designer ones. Peacefully protest pet stores that sell live dogs if you think it's wrong, or don't buy anything from them.
sofar at October 25, 2012 8:21 AM
This post turned into a tome; I apologize. But there's a lot of untested assumptions I'm seeing in the comments. Also, I know far more about dog breeding and puppy mills
***************
Honestly? I have a hard time disagreeing with this. Dogs and cats should not be purchased from pet stores. Period. Dot. (Personally, I wouldn't even purchase a pet rat from a pet store. I'd find a breeder.) The only "good" reasons are immediate gratification and a cheaper animal.
But the pet store obtained that animal at wholesale and wants to turn a profit. The mill that cranked the animal out wants to turn a profit. The broker between the the two wants a profit. The animal is where the corners are cut. And as far as immediate gratification goes, what do you think happens to the pups that get too old to sell, even after a discount? If they're lucky they get dumped at a rescue. Otherwise it's the big sleep or back to the mill to be used as breeding stock.
If a purebred animal is important, seek out a good breeder. Good breeders don't breed for profit, they breed for the health and temperament of the animal. If getting a cheap dog right now is important, then go to a rescue. If you want a cheap, purebred dog right now, every breed has it's own rescue organization. They generally aren't puppies anymore, and some arrived there after they got too sick for a puppy mill to keep breeding them (it's cheaper to "blackmail" a rescue organization than it is to put down a dog).
It's not hard to tell a puppy mill from a good breeder. Are the dogs kept in cages 24/7? Are the bitches bred every heat cycle? Are the bitches bred more than 4 times over their life? Do they have more than 20 dogs on the property? Do they breed several different breeds? Will they ship a dog without meeting you? Do they not let you meet the dog's dam? Do they not screen for genetic disorders? Do they not have any show titles for their animals? Do they have puppies on hand for sale the day you inquire? Are they USDA certified? If the answer to these is "yes" (especially the last one) then it's a puppy mill. Actually, the USDA certification makes it pretty cut and dried. Puppy mills need them, breeders don't.
"Another example of government licensing decreasing quality..."
The quality of the animals is already very low.
"The difference between a professional breeder and a "puppy mill"..."
There isn't one. If someone is making enough money at selling puppies for that to be their sole income, then they are a commercial breeder (since you find the term "puppy mill" inflammatory.) USDA licensing is required if there are more than three breeding females at any one time. Even if you bred them every heat (which is extremely bad for the health of the mother and the pups), and figure six live puppies per litter - that's 36 puppies a year. And you have to feed them, vaccinate them, and sell them cheap.
"In the very least, this ordinance will cause legitimate stores to close up shop,"
A pet store will see maybe a $75 profit on every $700 dog they sell. (Less once you factor in food). As the dog ages they have to discount the price to get it to sell and that margin drops. I'm sure the profit margins on kitty litter and dog food are higher.
"pet stores might just become midddlemen, or brokers, in that they will not be "selling" the animals."
Petsmart and Petco both act as middlemen to help animal rescues adopt out their animals.
"Yep, let's have "back-alley" pet sales!"
The classifieds and internet is already full of them. Puppy mills already sell directly to the customer. No responsible, good breeder will be selling via craigslist or the classifieds. It's all commercial and backyard breeders. Even the ads that say they have AKC paperwork. (This just means both parents are on the AKC books as being purebreds. It means nothing more than that.)
"But, individuals can buy directly from breeders; they'll just be without the expertise of somebody who knows something about pets"
You are being very generous to the knowledge level of average pet store employees. I would not trust them to know if a Miniature Schnauzer is good with children (not really, it's got a low tolerance for rough housing) or what the breed specific health problems of a pug are (flat faces mean it's very hard for them to regulate their temperature). I certainly wouldn't expect them to know if that puppy is alpha or the other one is a fraidy cat. A good breeder will patiently answer any and all questions you have. They want their puppies to go to a good home as much as you want a good dog. They want to make sure that you get the dog you want.
Elle at October 25, 2012 8:55 AM
Elle wrote: It's not hard to tell a puppy mill from a good breeder. Are the dogs kept in cages 24/7? Are the bitches bred every heat cycle? Are the bitches bred more than 4 times over their life? Do they have more than 20 dogs on the property? Do they breed several different breeds? Will they ship a dog without meeting you? Do they not let you meet the dog's dam?
THIS THIS THIS. I volunteer with homeless dogs, so I always push rescue. But. If someone wants to get a specific breed, I'm not so extreme that I'd say never to use a breeder. There are a lot of great ones out there.
I'd add one requirement to your list.
Will the breeder take back a dog if it doesn't work out? Reputable breeders will. If the breeder has a "no returns!" policy, they are sketchy. In fact, my family got a dog from a breeder, and there were several adult dogs running around the farm. Those, the breeder explained, were the ones that didn't work out for those who bought them. That's why she bred so rarely -- if she didn't have the space or resources to take back EVERY dog in a litter if necessary, she wouldn't breed.
And I'll second Elle's point that pet store employees don't necessarily offer good guidance or expertise on the dogs they sell. On a lark, I went into a pet store and asked about an Aussie pup they had. "I work full-time," I said. "How many walks would this dog need per day?" "OOOOOH," said the pet shop owner. "This dog is very calm. Very easy. Will sleep all day!" Yeah, OK. One of the most hyperactive breeds to walk the earth doesn't need walks. Right.
sofar at October 25, 2012 9:15 AM
Does this ordinance apply to grocery stores? The one in my neighborhood sells lots of animals (and animal parts), all from breeders and farms. (They just aren't living anymore...)
clinky at October 25, 2012 9:37 AM
"Wouldn't it just be easier to cut them off at the source, and ban puppy mills?" NicoleK
Odds are good that the mills are not within their jurisdictions, or they would...
Overall, this just shows that there are plenty of things that council people would think about that are personal causes, rather than Amy's aforementioned jobs that need to be done.
Since I'm in a bad mood, I think all animals should be banned because there are groups of citizens that obviously don't take care of them, which is why they end up in shelters.
There. Done. Entire bureaucracies disappear, cities save money, and there is no inhumanity to animals because no-one has them.
"...this is why we can never have nice things..."
now we can crusade about humans and their problems, yeah?
/rant
SwissArmyD at October 25, 2012 10:00 AM
From what I know, responsible breeders (like the ones who breed show or working dogs) don't utilize pet stores. From my limited experience with them, they generally don't like pet stores because they often support puppy mills. They tend to prefer breed-based rescue groups.
That said, most pet stores that I encounter these days "sell" rescue animals. Or rather, they allow rescue groups to use their space. This isn't true for the birds, rodents, fish, etc (but those aren't exactly problematic).
I'm pretty much against the whole puppy mill-pet store thing, but I'm sort of wondering how great things must be if that's what the politicians have time for...
Shannon M. Howell at October 25, 2012 11:21 AM
"crusade about humans and their problems"
I know I volunteer at an animal rescue because the animals actually behave as if they are grateful for the help and a rescued animal generally ends up being a good animal citizen.
I haven't seen the same appreciation and life turnarounds when I used to volunteer at the homeless shelter. I know...issues are much more complicated, but spend enough time helping humans and its easy to burnout and lose faith that you're doing any good.
Niki at October 25, 2012 12:16 PM
"spend enough time helping humans and its easy to burnout and lose faith that you're doing any good"
It can be tough. I've volunteered for a few organizations, and I understand where you're coming from. For example, you can help a person through their struggles, but you can't stop them from making the same mistakes over and over again.
I volunteered for Hospice for several years. Finally stopped, because it was emotionally and physically draining to be around pending death so frequently without a break. The clients (patients and family) were always amazing. Not that they needed to be. But they were.
Meloni at October 25, 2012 2:03 PM
I got my last dog as a puppy wandering down the street
lujlp at October 25, 2012 3:09 PM
The horror of the treatment of dogs in LA needs to be addressed. No one in society wants to do anything about it. The local government should not be an enabler.
I have a story that I can email to anyone interested. If you live in L.A. it will horrify you.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at October 25, 2012 10:39 PM
"Also, I know far more about dog breeding and puppy mills "
Wow, just realized how bitchy and pompous that sounded. I apologize. It was an unfinished clause. I meant to say "I know far more about dog breeding and puppy mills *than I do about cat breeding.*"
Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Elle at October 26, 2012 8:24 AM
This could be a windfall for every local eatery engaged in dubious meatsourcing.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at October 26, 2012 2:07 PM
I'm not sure why -- you taught me a heck of a lot more than I knew.
(We bought a Golden Retriever from a breeder seven years ago. Everything you said about what differentiates a mill from a breeder was completely true.)
The pet shops around where I live (Anchorage, AK) showcase shelter animals for adoption. They don't, SFAIK, get cats or dogs from any other source.
Jeff Guinn at October 26, 2012 8:05 PM
"I'm not sure why ..."
Because this missing clause was probably more likely to be interpreted as "than any of you" than it was "than about cats."
"...you taught me a heck of a lot more than I knew."
Thanks :)
Elle at October 26, 2012 8:33 PM
Please, please listen to Elle and sofar. They know what they're talking about.
My own experience is in rescuing dogs from puppy mills closed down by the authorities (and you wouldn't believe how long the authorities can ignore the most revolting operations), rehabilitating and placing them. The conditions those dogs lived under are enough to give any decent person nightmares. The dogs were not merely neglected, they were actively, horribly, sadistically abused. The puppy mill owners I encountered were not merely misguided folks wanting to make an easy buck. They were the Michael Vicks of dog breeders.
I will not buy so much as a dog toy from any pet store that sells animals. They know damn well where those animals come from.
rm at October 28, 2012 2:20 PM
How long will it be before the LA SWAT team invades a pet store and shoots all the puppies?
I talked to someone at the coffee shop who was thinking about getting a min pin like mine. I paid $100 from the neighbor. He said they were $1600 at the pet store in the mall.
Terry Gibbs at October 29, 2012 1:29 AM
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