Let's hope that our generation, having trained the younger generation to believe that losing a foot-race is unfair, can train the kiddies, when they reach adulthood, to believe inheriting our $222 trillion unfunded liability is perfectly fair.  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-08/blink-u-s-debt-just-grew-by-11-trillion.html

I think everyone should watch a comedy special von Christopher Titus called "Neverlution". He talks about this and quite a few other theme like it. It was extremely funny but also very thought provoking.

I was shanghiaed into coaching U-8 girls soccer this fall in a league where they "don't keep score."

We kept score, tracked our wins and our losses, ran laps in practice, and even played hurt.

The girls were taught to be goods sports when we won and that while it's no fun to lose, maybe some more practice would make us better.

Not suprisingly, the girls absolutely loved it.

Reassuringly, the parents loved it too.

Ominously, they're trying to draft me back for next year.

I have no problems with giving a ribbon for finishing because that is important (to me, anyway). Even if you don't win, still finish because that's how you get better.

As a parent, I will reward trying to do something w/o accomplishment, if it is an honest effort. Heck, my kids try a new food (vegi, cookie, whatever), it gets a small reward. That's because I value trying new things.

But... we still have winners. Even when we play Candy Land, some one gets there first (and yes, every one else still has to finish in our house!).

I wish they'd just take one step back and say, "this ribbon is for everyone who finishes the race, but THIS ribbon is for the person who finishes first." Wouldn't that teach a bunch of really good lessons?

I *do* think we tend to value winning a bit too much in some places (many little league ball fields now have signs reminding parents that screaming at the kids is not appropriate & that this isn't a major league recruiting event). So, I appreciate trying to refocus, but how can kids even take pride in the accomplishment of FINISHING if "everyone wins the same?"

Am I the only one who sees a middle ground?

Yes, in life the best candidate gets the job offer, but it might be the 3rd in line who ends up in the position, so finishing that job application is still important!

We should be teaching kids pride in doing their personal best, finishing what they start, AND winning.

I'll never be a world-class musician, but I practiced a lot and got good enough to be in the top groups in school. That's an accomplishment, even if I wasn't first chair.

Unfortunately, some people are so obsessed with winning ONLY (and others only with showing up), that many people have, in effect, been taught not to see their accomplishments or value them appropriately; they've been taught that everything is equally awesome, except when winning's everything... and it's arbitrary which is which. That's what I grew up with, and it really sucks. I'm still re-learning what is worth being proud of - what really IS a big deal.

My goals: My kids will value a good effort. They will value winning. They will value personal improvement. They will value finishing. They will loose with grace.

"The focus on equality of outcome may produce a generation that is burdened with an indignant sense of entitlement."

May produce? MAY?

Nope, that entitlement is here now. When employed I do new hire training. It is amazing to me how so many new hires think that everyone, regardless of position hired for, educational and experience background, should all be paid the same amount.

I had one guy who was hired to do office "gofer" work such as stuffing envelopes just couldn't understand why he wasn't paid as much as the woman who was hired to be a Director's Executive Assistant. He just didn't get it - "but, we both came through the same agencey" he said.

Seriously, the guy stuffing envelopes should be paid the same as the woman dealing with phone calls and executive demands all day?! The real irony of this is that he was a part-time student working on his Ph.D. Ha! How's THAT higher ed working out for him?

Yes,
That story is a microcosm of the Obama admin in action....we should all get stuff,,,,just for.... showing up....again, works great, until someone gets pissed off enough,, or you run out of ribbons (er, money)

It starts with songs out straight out of the Little Red Songbook, like This Land is Your Land. Who didn't sing that, growing up attending public schools? Maybe not everyone had the full version in their music books, but my teacher made sure we did, on staped-together copy paper:

There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me/Sign was painted, said private property/But on the back side it didn't say nothing/This land was made for you and me.

Next, there are no more winners and losers on track and field day, or at the science fair. Everyone gets a participation trophy.

Then, there are no more grades. A kid either shows up, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, he won't get a job, and will instead collect government benefits while a bus comes 'round to collect him for the polls every four years.

Those who do work will be taxed to a greater and greater extent until they are forced to admit that they would have more if they took what the government gave them rather than trying to earn it on their own.

Anyone who doesn't think we're well on the road to socialism in this country should consider how far down this list we've gotten.

I regularly won the "most improved" award on my summer league swim team. I joked even then that it was because I always had the most room for improvement.

Astra,

Well, you might have had the most room for improvement, but you improved. So, you were better than you had been. That's noteworthy. Not exactly trophy worthy, but clearly you weren't just joking around.

I, on the other hand, can doggie-paddle for about 10 seconds. No certificate for me!

I don't understand how anybody lives like this. I would be bored to tears. I don't have a problem with participation or completion ribbons, but this "everybody is a winner" is just weird. If there is no incentive, what's the point of bettering yourself?

My daughter's reaction was "They say everyone wins but we scored more goals."

During our soccer games, the referees keep track of the score but it is only used for seeding to make future games more competitive. But the kids and the parents generally know the score.

Astra,

Well, you might have had the most room for improvement, but you improved. So, you were better than you had been.

Yes, I took this for granted until I did triathlons and discovered how many people can barely swim. The award didn't mean much but the effort did.

Still, as a kid I did wonder where my "smart as hell" award was. Nothing really until graduation, at which point they call them "scholarships."

Well, here's NOT FAIR for ya, my Rob Gronkowski is out for at least the next 4 weeks, with a busted forearm! And New England plays the Jets on Thanksgiving!! Wah! WAH! Not FAIR!!!

o.O

(yeah, I'm a big baby when it comes to the Patriots. Best. Damn. Team. EVAH.)

Astra,

You're right, the awards are scholarship - which all too often have nothing to do with being scholarly anyway.

But... around here they have advanced programs. It's not a "winning" thing, but I know my son is proud that he gets to go to the special math class (for advanced kids). I have to think this is why spelling bees were invented (I can't spell, but was a great student otherwise). Now there's a bunch of more academic stuff for competitions (best recollection of the names, they might be wrong):

quiz bowl
math Olympiad
Odyssey of the Mind
geography bee

So, there's SOME hope for those of us who have the coordination of an overly-excited puppy on roller skates.

"Well, here's NOT FAIR for ya, my Rob Gronkowski is out for at least the next 4 weeks, with a busted forearm! And New England plays the Jets on Thanksgiving!! Wah! WAH! Not FAIR!!!"

Hey Flynne, after the neck-wringing your guys gave Indy yesterday, you have a lot of nerve!

And I'm a Redskins fan*, so if you want sympathy, I'll tell you where to look it up!

*The only way I'd have less sympathy is if I were an Eagles fan...

LOL Old RPM Daddy!! I know, they really romped all over the Colts, gods bless 'em! But if Gronk is out for 4 to 6 weeks, and Deion Branch is out, and Wes Welker comes up questionable again, well, the chances of the Jets actually winning this game are...no, no, it just doesn't bear even thinking about....

I'll just make sure I've got enough Pinot Grigio on hand, to drown my sorrows if they lose. Or celebrate if they win. Or something...

o.O

PS - Sorry about your 'skins. Ya know, they used to be a good team....

"PS - Sorry about your 'skins. Ya know, they used to be a good team...."

Well, the did put the spankola on Philly, and they have a chance to beat Dallas on Thursday. And don't worry. The Jets blow.

Our Hostess is going, "Sports blog? Am I running a damn sports blog?" Back to the topic --

Shannon M., I agree that the academic competitions are a pretty good thing. Middle daughter won the county spelling bee a few years back and learned some good lessons. Then she came in second the next couple of years and learned even better lessons. What she's doing now is similar enough to what you mentioned in your post that it makes me wonder if your kids and mine have met.

What's even worse, if your child does excel at anything, the "We are all winners" Types will tried to beat it out of them.

My No 1 daughter was born in January. She's an incredibly bright young lady, so I asked what it would take for her to skip Kindergarten and go straight to 1st grade. I took her to a psychiatrist for "social maturity" tests, IQ tests, the whole mess, and they deemed her worthy of 1st grade. Even said she would be bored spitless in Kindergarten because the daycare I had had her in was at the local college. They actually taught the kids, rather than sitting on their duffs eating cheetos while the herd ran wild.

She was so excited the first day of school. I had told her about all the wonderful things she would learn. Unfortunately, I didn't count on the teacher being an asshat. She called out No 1 the first day, told her she shouldn't be there, and she should go to kindergarten.

I breathed a lot of fire that year, between that bitch and the bullies of the class being allowed by her to pick on my kid. Thankfully, they did not kill No 1's love of learning.

Old RPM,

I doubt they have met. My kids haven't done all that, but it's stuff that's available. My eldest is 6, so we haven't exactly aged into lots of these yet.

When I was in Kindergarten and 1st grade I got to do advanced work by myself in the corner at my own pace. At the end of 1st grade I had completed the 5th grade math book and all the 8th grade spelling and reading assignments. I don't recall for science and history type stuff, but those were up there too. However, when I got to 2nd grade the teacher said I had to sit there and do what everyone else did. The school refused to skip me ahead any grades despite testing at 6th grade level on state testing. They said it would be unfair to challenge me that much and that my classmates would pick on me for being younger. Apparently it was completely fine to be bullied and ostracized by my age appropriate peers. That pretty much killed my love of school and respect for teachers. They didn't actually want me to learn anything, just sit there and fill a seat. I'm planning to send my children to the private school I attended for high school where they are not tied to state rules in many areas and did actually move children to classes that better suited their ability. I recall there being a 5th grade boy in my high school pre-calculus class one year because he was very advanced.

I also find the "everybody wins" approach to sports demeaning. I was a competitive gymnast for years and years and you can bet there were winners and losers and you were pushed hard to be the winner. I've heard people recently say that it's bad for self-esteem and self worth to push winning and high achievement if kids fail along the way. I do not agree at all. You earn those things through trying, working, and achieving!

Both Obama and Romney worked really hard on their campaigns. Shouldn't they both be president?

Both Obama and Romney worked really hard on their campaigns. Shouldn't they both be president? -- Sosij at November 19, 2012 4:48 PM

With all humor intended:

I still want Ron Paul to win. ;-)

But... but... why can't we all be President?

Oh, and Flynne: go Falcons! (Hopefully better than they did yesterday...)

No. No, Romney and Paul should not be President. Because some animals are more equal than others. I have a Nobel Prize that says so.

"Both Obama and Romney worked really hard on their campaigns. Shouldn't they both be president?"

YES! And here's the solution that will make everyone happy:

Obama and Michelle get to keep "playing" President and first lady. That is Obama gets to play all the golf and shoot hoops that he wants and can give press conferences about how the police acted stupidly. Michelle can continue to call us all fat while growing weeds in her garden, take outlandish vacations, and frequent trips to McDonalds.

Romney and Ryan, on the other hand, get to BE President and Vice President. You know, do the actual work that Obama can't or won't do.

The only question is what to do with good ol' Joe? Oh hell, stick him in the looney bin and tell him it is congress - he'll never know that difference.

I have been thinking about something similar and then this since I read this yesterday.

The trouble I am thinking is that the competitions are the samething over and over or rigged in away. If you get an award at work you get assignments were you can easily get more...mean while the others who didn't cover your ordinary work so it is very hard to get an award.

Thinking through my childhood all the awards went to a few people. Through elementary school it was the 100 yard dash. In all 6 years I think there was only 3 unique winners. At the end of junior high they gave a bunch of academic awards. Something like this. Natural Science: Me Math: Sam History, Geography, English, Social studies, State History, Biology, Spelling Bee: Steve In all I think they had about 50 awards and maybe 10 students (out of 250 or so) got an award.

Very few people were winners.

"Everybody wins" isn't a necessarily a bad philosophy, especially when you're dealing with kids, but there's a right way and a wrong way to apply it. For example, when I played rec-league soccer and basketball in elementary school, every player got a trophy, and coaches would give out awards like "Best Goal Scorer" "Best Attitude" "Fastest Runner" "Most Improved" etc. This is a great way to acknowledge everyone's effort and hard work while still recognizing individual strengths and abilities. However it requires a coach who knows their players well and is willing to put in some thought and consideration into the categories and awards.

Just handing everyone a ribbon, on the other hand, requires absolutely no thought or effort. It's lazy teaching, coaching, parenting. Of course it may still make sense in situations where everyone has worked hard and earned the recognition and acknowledgement. But rewarding activities that require little to no training, preparation, time, or effort (like, yknow, a footrace) not only cheapens the meaning of winning: it cheapens the act of participation itself. If everyone earns a ribbon then sure give everyone a ribbon, but there's no satisfaction in a reward you didn't earn!

I don't know if it's still the case, but the Air Force once issued a ribbon for completing boot camp. That's kinda silly. The uniform should be the clue.