Judge Judy Versus The Economy Of Free
We enable the freeloaders like the defendant -- and, it turns out, the plaintiff -- in her courtroom. "Send in this tape to Congress," Judge Judy says.
The male freeloader talks about taking our tax dollars given to him to subsidize his rent and instead spending it "on me," in his words...and being proud of it:
If I hear this guy say "ya know what I'm sayin'" one more time, I will implode.
On the other hand, I LOVE JUDGE JUDY. Grade A bitch-slapper and sharp-tongued justice dispenser of the "don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining" school.
We need more just like her.
via @Instapundit
Too bad Judge Judy can't for real bitch slap that freeloader.
Charles at November 20, 2012 6:09 AM
I've invented a new phrase, and you all can thank me for it later: "Galt barrier". A Galt barrier is anything that the government does that creates a disincentive to be successful beyond a certain level. I thought of it last week when I went to a company presentation where they are trying to clean up the huge hit they have taken in recruting and retention due to the new health insurance plan. One mitigation they are putting in place is that there will be extra compensation (in effect, extra pay) to help cover the very high deductable on the new plan -- but only employees below a certain salary level are eligible.
Of course, my own salary is just on the other side of the cutoff. Between the higher premiums, the extra money I will now have to put into a health savings account, and the tax increases set to kick in at the beginning of the year, my take-home pay will be going down. I could give up my raise from last year, get on the other side of the insurance cutoff, and my take-home pay would actually be nearly the same.
Cousin Dave at November 20, 2012 6:42 AM
This punk should be put on a work farm until he generates the amount of money that was wasted on him.
lujlp at November 20, 2012 7:11 AM
If the money was for rent, why did the government not give it directly to the person who was supposed to receive the rent instead of giving it into the hands of this guy and hoping that he would pay it? This is just like child support where money is supposed to be spent on the kid, but the 'mom' gets the money and there is no control on how it is spent and the 'mom' spends it on herself.
If giving money to the 'mom' is okay and she spending it on herself is okay, then I guess this guy spending the money on himself is also okay.
Redrajesh at November 20, 2012 7:37 AM
Ooooo, Redrajesh, you just pushed one of my buttons. Listen up:
I get a whopping $69 a week in child support, for 2 children. My meager wages are spent on rent, utilities, food, clothing, and gas to get to my job. When I get the child support check, which doesn't even begin to cover even one week's worth of groceries, if I decide to buy myself a pair of panty hose out of that check, and then get my nails done (a $15 manicure), who the hell is to say that I can't?? Take your snot-nosed, no-nothing opinion, and shove it. Do you have children? Are you divorced? Do you pay child support? NO? Then STFU.
Thank you.
I am so SICK of guys who have this attitude. You don't want to give the mom the child support check? THEN TAKE YOUR KIDS BACK AND SUPPORT THEM YOURSELF. Give the mom a break, she probably needs it more than you could ever know.
Now, as for the idiot with the over-inflated sense of entitlement in the video, I agree with lujy that he needs to be put on a work farm. People like him make me ill.
Flynne at November 20, 2012 7:56 AM
"I get a whopping $69 a week in child support, for 2 children"
So how much is left for the poor guy after he gives you $69? I am guessing probably $10 or $20. If you think that this is so insufficient, why don't you give him the kids and give him $69 a week? Maybe he would manage pretty well with it anyway since he seems to be alive on $10 or $20 a week after giving you $69 every week.
The guy was having a sense of entitlement, but at the end Judge Judy dismissed the case without any payment for the woman because she also did not pay any rent between October to Jan. Now why is that woman not someone who has a sense of entitlement?
Redrajesh at November 20, 2012 8:26 AM
"I get a whopping $69 a week in child support, for 2 children. "
Flynne, I have to admit I am surprised at this. The going rate for middle-class divorces around here seems to be about $800 per month, per child.
Cousin Dave at November 20, 2012 8:43 AM
Redrajesh, you're an asshole. How much do you think he has left? Much more than $20! You are astoundingly stupid if you think he only makes $89 a week. My ex is anything BUT a "poor guy".
Cousin Dave, when we got divorced, I had already moved out of where we were living, but he was not obligated to pay for housing for us, because at the time, I was making more money that he was. This was quite some time ago, mind you. And he has since gotten a nice settlement because of some injuries. Don't cry for him! Don't cry for me either, because in spite of it all, I'm doing, well, not well, but I'm doing okay. Getting by, as it were.
Flynne at November 20, 2012 9:01 AM
Flynne, there seems to be this middle-class man angst regarding child support, like women are just across-the-board living large on child support checks. The fact that single moms are the groups most at risk for living in poverty says otherwise. I don't know anyone getting a ton of money from their exes. Several are lucky to get anything at all, and others have given up. The court ordered the exes to give a certain amount, but it isn't worth the legal fight to actually try to collect.
A lot of men seem enraged that they have to pay anything at all.
MonicaP at November 20, 2012 9:20 AM
Hey, I can play the guitar. Where's my twenty-two grand?
Steve Daniels at November 20, 2012 9:25 AM
First off, men usually wind up poorer after divorce. Yes everyone has anecdotes which say otherwise.
As to the reason men feel pissed, might have sonething to do with the fact that women inniate most divorces, women generally get custody regradless of who would acctully be a better parent, and that while the governemnt cracks down on child support orders(even when men cant legitamatly pay) they dont do shit about mothers bolcking visitation
lujlp at November 20, 2012 9:27 AM
Wow, Flynne. That's really low! My husband and I looked at the state guidelines for child support out of curiosity after an acquaintance said she got $3500 a month for her son. I'd get $700 a month for two kids were we to separate and I had custody, but he'd get $1300 from me if he had custody. We can't really figure that one out considering I make roughly $50K a year and he makes $70K. You'd think I'd get more considering his income is greater, but that's not what the calculator said.
Redrajesh, you sound like a complete asshole! Yes, evil woman collecting money from the poor man so she can raise their children. I guess the father should just be able to get away with contributing nothing whatsoever to their upkeep? In most instances the custodial parent doesn't get enough to pay for groceries to feed the children let alone cover anything else. You act like Flynne is really cashing in while her ex is forced to live in a cardboard box eating scraps out of a dumpster.
BunnyGirl at November 20, 2012 9:46 AM
"I am so SICK of guys who have this attitude. You don't want to give the mom the child support check? THEN TAKE YOUR KIDS BACK AND SUPPORT THEM YOURSELF. Give the mom a break, she probably needs it more than you could ever know."
Sorry to hear of your problems, Flynn, but we are all tired of hearing something. I'm tired of hearing what you are saying as well.
My ex played the "kids should be with their mother" card when I tried to have them live with me, since I was the one making the dough.
So the court steps in and says 'sounds good, and oh yeah, you have to pay for it all, boya.'
So don't tell me after a Ch7 and paying close to 50+% of my takehome PLUS medical, PLUS private school... PLUS she gets to take one as deduction and head of household on taxes, while I get bentover... that your point of view is the only possible one.
Divorce sucks, and it's often a lose/lose for someone, and for every woman who has had their ex jackrabbit and never pay anything, there's a guy who pays the mortgage on a house that his ex and her new boyfriend are now living in.
SwissArmyD at November 20, 2012 10:15 AM
Egads, I hate this debate. I used to have it with my ex on a regular basis. He swore up and down that I was getting rich off of the child support I received. Child support is for the support of the children - to assist in providing housing, food, clothing and the basic life necessities. The $1200 a month I received for 3 children was only a drop in the bucket of what it cost...the remainder of the money for those basic necessities came from the wages I earned. But for some reason, some men seem to think that child support money they pay magically pays for everything. I'll give an example from my own life, this is from when my kids were all under 18 and living at home. Keep in mind, I live in Orange County, CA.
House Payment $1600.00/mo
Groceries: $600/mo conservatively (those girls can eat!)
Car Payment/Insurance: $450/mo (gotta get to my own job to pay the bills)
Utilities: $$200/mo
After School Care: $200/mo
Gas Money: $150/at least
Those are just the basics, if I provided nothing extra - school registration fees, school pictures, school clothes, school supplies, oh and they wanted to participate in school activities - those aren't free. Oh and their BFF is having a birthday party and they want to go - gotta buy a gift. Then they wanted to take AP classes, and apply to college, so they had to take the SAT tests, and the AP tests, and all the college application fees. As you can see, I was getting rich, living high on the hog.
I'm not saying that he didn't suffer financially, but what I am saying is this: If we had remained married, it would have cost his a whole lot more than $1200 to provide for the entire family. And of course, it would have been more financially beneficial to me to stay married. I'm just not sure it would have been all that great for my health and physical well-being.
sara at November 20, 2012 10:16 AM
As to the reason men feel pissed, might have sonething to do with the fact that women inniate most divorces, women generally get custody regradless of who would acctully be a better parent, and that while the governemnt cracks down on child support orders(even when men cant legitamatly pay) they dont do shit about mothers bolcking visitation...
That about sums it up!
wetcat at November 20, 2012 10:17 AM
I'm not divorced, but I know plenty of people who are, and was friends with plenty of split-home kids growing up.
This is another case where I can say certain cases really are unfair, some just suck all around, some people use child support issues to "get back" at an ex, the list just goes on.
What I don't like is when people come out with platitudes, be it "all men are scrimping on support" or "women live high off support" or whatever. I'm sure examples about of all cases.
My neighbors are divorced - 2 kids. They get along for the kids' sake. I actually didn't know they were divorced until I'd lived here for 2 years because they lived in the same house & got along well enough (in public at least). When she remarried, she got a house just on the other side of the bus stop, so the kids can easily go from one house to the other. I know it still makes things harder for the kids, but it could be much worse.
My point in describing this is that ALL divorces are hard on families with kids - even the most amicable. Some couples are able to keep it nice for the kids, and others aren't (for a variety of reasons).
Instead of flinging mud, angst, and anger around - even the justifiable anger - perhaps we should all just try to do right by our own kids and do as much for other kids in our community as we can. Wouldn't that be a much more productive use of our energy, since all the screaming and yelling won't make a deadbeat do the right thing? We can still raise the next generation to be better than our own - and that includes not making sweeping blanket statements about whole groups of people, right?
Now, that being said... this is the second peacey/dovey comment I've made in 48 hours... so either all the "holiday" commercials are getting to me or I need a pregnancy test. Where did my snarkiness go?
Shannon M. Howell at November 20, 2012 11:38 AM
Re: Child Support
Both men and women end up poorer after divorce. Divorce is the number one cause of bankruptcy. If nothing else, splitting a single household into two means the same income between the 2 parents has to pay both the old mortgage/rent and mortgage/rent on a new place for one of the parents. Oh, and both parents ran up big legal bills in the divorce. And they often now hate each other and (for the payor) deeply resent the fact of having to pay money to the custodial parent, or (for the payee) think the payor is being an asshole for not paying timely or complaining about supporting the kids.
Divorces suck for both sides, and for the kids. Just because you're worse off financially does not mean your ex is better off, it's most likely that you're both getting screwed, and there's nothing short of winning the lottery or doubling your income you can do to fix it.
Peter H at November 20, 2012 1:44 PM
Everyone loses in divorce, the kids most of all. Who initiates the divorce says nothing about what happened in the marriage. Maybe she was an evil whore who just wanted his money. Maybe he was beating the crap out of her with a baseball bat. Chances are they're both playing the victim card, so how is a judge supposed to peer into their souls and find the truth?
The courts can't possibly know who will be a better parent. That's beyond the scope of the legal system to sort out. All they can do is try to maintain the kids' lifestyle. That usually means the mother remains the primary caregiver and lives with the children wherever they happened to be living before. There's no reason to think that if the mother has been working as a part time receptionist for 10 years and doing most of the child care while the husband worked full time, that it's going to be better for the children to assume that the mother can just go find a job that pays three times as much while dad slips seamlessly into the role of primary caregiver.
It sucks for everyone. Everyone usually ends up poorer financially, and frequently bitter as hell.
MonicaP at November 20, 2012 1:52 PM
But for some reason, some men seem to think that child support money they pay magically pays for everything.
And some women seem to think that as the guy could afford to support the family before the divorce he should be able to afterwords as well.
lujlp at November 20, 2012 2:03 PM
A lot of the problems of support after a divorce can be attributed to two things. Most people are very weak at applied math skills and honestly don't think how difficult it is going to be pay for two of everything that they only needed one of, when there was a single household.
Many people who get used to a certain standard of living, have never learned how to seperate luxuries for necessities.
You would be amazed at the number of people who do so little financial planning, that their first indication of a financial problem is a rejected credit card charge or a bank overdraft.
In general, I am agast at the number of people who are willing to deprive their children of the other parent, for selfish and petty reasons, including using visitation as a means to get back at the non custodial parent.
Isab at November 20, 2012 2:47 PM
"Many people who get used to a certain standard of living, have never learned how to seperate luxuries for necessities."
Like sara in Orange County (you just have to live in one of the most expensive areas in the country?) Though I suppose if your job is there, I don't know. Still, a $1600 monthly house payment, quick back-of-the-envelope calculation says the loan amount is probably, I'm guessing, $300K, so that's probably about the baseline home value (possibly more depending on other factors not mentioned) ... meanwhile, the national median single-family home price is around $180K. So your home value seems to be possibly nearly double what the typical American family gets by in. If you shop around you can find a 3 bedroom condo for under $200K even in OC, maybe reasonably decent 2-bedroom for $150K or so. My family were not well off growing up, so apologies if I am not taht sympathetic to hear about how difficult it is to keep up with the Joneses in OC, and to apparently have no control over how the girls eat. When money is really just not there then somehow you make do. When I was growing up we ate what was on the table, end of story, we didn't even think of complaining or there'd be hell to pay, my mom really worked hard to stretch the limited grocery budget. We were four kids, had two bedrooms, shared the bedrooms, having our own bedrooms wasn't even something to think about. When there was no money for things like birthday presents then that was that, 'end of story, don't complain'.
I have one daughter now and while we live a better quality of life than I had growing up, financially we feel we can't afford a second. (Fortunately, not divorced, and my wife is now able to do the stay at home thing.)
"And some women seem to think that as the guy could afford to support the family before the divorce he should be able to afterwords as well"
When you're still a unified family then you only have to pay for one house, divorce also means splitting up, so now between the two of you a couple is often paying for two houses instead of one. When you're still a family you can take turns with things like dinner, when wife cooks dinner you can get some work done and vice versa. When both are single then you can't do that. A single mother has to worry more about earning money and making ends meet and then still take care of the kids. So everything becomes more stressful, not only is it all costing more, there is less time available to work at earning money, less time to rest and relax, so people get more stressed and more bitter and it gets more acrimonious. Kids are generally unhappier so more time required to smooth things over with the kids when they're unhappy, rather than spend quality time with them. Etc. etc., there are lots of things like this. That's one reason people form marriage partnerships in the first place, it's easier for two members of a partnership to accomplish a family-raising objective.
I'm still together with my wife but I am only just-just making ends meet now to pay for it all. Thanks to the fact that we live together we get a bit of extra income by renting out her condo, if we got divorced we would lose that. If I even think about an *amicable* divorce right now, financially, I honestly think I'd crack.
Lobster at November 20, 2012 4:20 PM
My parents seperated before I was five. It was best for all, and as civil as they were to each other when me and my sister were present the tension was palpable.
My childhood was pretty damn good for a child of divorce in comparision to even the mildest of bad situations let alone some of the fucked up horror stories we run across.
That being said, even as a fairly rational, emotionally stable 33 year old this song reduces me to tears everytime I hear it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUfgAbFY4CA
lujlp at November 20, 2012 4:31 PM
"And some women seem to think that as the guy could afford to support the family before the divorce he should be able to afterwords as well"
Just one small example, my stay-at-home wife currently mostly cooks and buys groceries etc. ... I have a small software consultancy. So not having to worry about just these, gives me probably between 20 to 40 extra hours a month I can contract out, at approx $60/hr to $100/hr, usually in practice roughly $1500 billable a month, maybe $2000 to $3000 in a good month (though it seldom works out that way, as there always seem to be other things that eat my time, like plumbing problems etc.). So if we got divorced and I'm suddenly cooking for myself etc. then automatically I'm able to earn less. But after paying lawyers (that I wouldn't be able to afford), a judge would presmably say I must still pay as if I was earning the same, and that's before even factoring in other new costs and lost revenue e.g. she'd probably move back into her own place. I think I'd go from 'just making ends meet' to 'losing it'.
Lobster at November 20, 2012 4:35 PM
" I'm guessing, $300K"
Hmm, to be fair, if you bought in the bubble are in negative equity, then OK, you could have a problem.
Lobster at November 20, 2012 4:43 PM
Lobster, I paid $265k for my house in 1998 - it's in a nice area, the area they grew up in, close to their father, with good schools, with nothing more than a first mortgage. Things that were important to me for my children's sake. Sure, I could have lived in the Inland Empire and bought or rented a house that would cost me maybe $1000 a month, and I could have made the 80 miles one way commute. Or I could, as I chose to do, live within a 10 miles radius of where I worked so that I could be close by in case something happened and maintain as normal of a life as possible for 3 kids. I went without plenty, so their needs were met. As for my astronomical grocery bill - my kids have always eaten what is before them. I am not a short order cook, nor do I cater to picky eating habits. That $600 a month was every meal my children and I ate - breakfast, lunch (I packed our lunches) and dinner. Once in awhile I could afford to splurge on a $5 pizza. I had to learn to live on a shoestring budget and to this day still maintain a strict budget.
Thanks for perpetuating the myth that divorced parents who collect child support are living high on the hog.
sara at November 20, 2012 5:05 PM
Lujlp,
"That being said, even as a fairly rational, emotionally stable 33 year old this song reduces me to tears everytime I hear it"
This is for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4kiP4aWUII
chang at November 20, 2012 5:19 PM
@Flynne, $69/week seems quite low, have you actually asked for more, and he refuses?
Just for interest, since everyone seems a bit emotional on the topic, here are some actual facts and figures and stats on child support:
http://singleparents.about.com/od/statebystateresources/p/child_support_statistics.htm
The average monthly child support received by custodial parents is $300/month.
(The average awarded or 'agreed to' seems to be just under $500/month).
Awards to females vs males appears to be skewed at a ratio of 55 : 30. That's high, but not as high as I expected.
Lobster at November 20, 2012 6:32 PM
"Awards to females vs males appears to be skewed at a ratio of 55 : 30"
Sorry, I made a mistake here - actually, the article doesn't give the ratio, it just says:
"54.9% of custodial single mothers were awarded child support in 2010.
30.4% of custodial single fathers were awarded child support during the same year."
You can't infer anything at all about the custody ratio from that, but you can infer that courts do in fact discriminate very heavily against single fathers as compared to single mothers.
Lobster at November 20, 2012 6:35 PM
"I am not a short order cook, nor do I cater to picky eating habits. That $600 a month was every meal my children and I ate - breakfast, lunch (I packed our lunches) and dinner"
My god woman teach me. I just blew 172 on Thanksgiving dinner for 3.
Purple pen at November 20, 2012 10:33 PM
Purple, I spent $137 at the grocery store on Saturday - that covered the entire Thanksgiving dinner for 15 plus whatever groceries I needed for the week for myself and my middle daughter. AND I got a 20 pound Butterball in that.
sara at November 21, 2012 5:14 AM
Lobster, I've asked for more, I've asked for the medical insurance and co-pays that he was supposed to cover, and so far, nothing. I'm not going to put him in jail, I have NEVER refused his visitation, I've even asked him to take the overnight on occasion, he just doesn't seem to be capable of upholding his end. He has money that his parents have given him, but I can't get any of that because it's not recorded income. He hasn't worked in years, he got his settlement, now he gets disability, and I'm TSOL.
Ppen, I, too, like sara, have a limited amount of money I spend on groceries, in the area of $400/month or so. Last week, I had a little extra and splurged on extra food for tomorrow's dinner, because we're having company. But thanks to our local grocery store and because I spent a little more than $300 in between Oct 20 and Nov 20, I got a free 20-lb turkey! So we're living large this weekend. I also bought a lot apples (for apple pie), pumpkin (for pumpkin pies and pumpkin bread), and 2 lbs of shrimp for shrimp cocktail. After the big meal, boil down the turkey carcass and make soup that I freeze, for later on. Plus, BF just got a huge doe that he's butchering, so we'll have venison and I won't have to buy any more meat until around April. Which helps immensely.
Flynne at November 21, 2012 5:57 AM
"...take the GIRLS overnight..." I should have posted.
Flynne at November 21, 2012 5:58 AM
Flynne, the favorite part of the Tales of My Ex stories is this. When our youngest daughter was 17, she decided she couldn't live by my rules anymore and it would be best if she went to live with her dad. Her older sister tried to warn her what would happen (she went to live with him for less than a year when she was 16 and things didn't end well), but the youngest was convinced she was daddy's favorite and everything would be ok. We went to court to modify the custody/support orders and I paid him $600+ a month for child support. She's now 18, my child support obligation has ended, although I do drop money into her account when she needs something, and now he's trying to figure out how to get rid of her. He called me 2 weeks ago asking for "help" because he thinks she would be better off with me. He's even gone to great lengths to make her miserable in hopes that she'll give up and move home, he's resorted to some pretty despicable behavior. He's really not a nice person, I chose a really lousy father for my kids, and I own that. His mantra is that she's 18 and he shouldn't have to do anything else for her. Meanwhile, he's 46 and his daddy bought him a house two years ago.
sara at November 21, 2012 7:19 AM
Oh and she knows she can come home whenever she wants. But she has a job and a boyfriend where her dad lives now - he moved 75 miles away.
sara at November 21, 2012 7:24 AM
House Payment: $1600.00/mo
Groceries: $600/mo conservatively (those girls can eat!)
Car Payment/Insurance: $450/mo (gotta get to my own job to pay the bills)
Utilities: $$200/mo
After School Care: $200/mo
Gas Money: $150/at least
money that your husband should pay for each of the above
All expenses on kids have to be 50% from you and 50% from your husband. Going by that
1200/2 = 600 (3/4 of 1600 - since 4 of you are sharing the house, payment for 3 is 1200 and half of that from your husband and half from you)
450/2 = 225
your expense - he pays his own car insurance
150/2 = 75
100
your expense - he also pays gas money for his travel
1000 is what your husband should pay assuming his household rent is just $400 for himself and he pays car insurance of $450/mo and utilities of 50 and gas money of 150. 200 is for the fact that you are doing the child care supposedly. If that was not fair, you could have just given the kids to your husband and stayed in a $400 acco and consumed utilities of $50. And you should have given $1200 to your husband
Alternately, if you want to save 200$, then keep your kids for 15 days a month and your husband keeps them 15 days a month and each of you spend $1000 on the kids every month. So there was nothing unfair about the child support order. If you spent $1000 over what your husband gave every month for the kids, it is but a fair deal.
Redrajesh at November 21, 2012 9:09 AM
Red, I never said what I received was unfair. What I said was that I'm tired of men thinking the mothers of their children are getting rich off of child support.
sara at November 21, 2012 9:40 AM
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