"Laissez tomber le croissant sur le sol. Lâche ça. Lâche ça maintenant! Lâche ça ...".
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers
at December 6, 2012 1:05 AM
But, but...you might die of dog poisoning.
We often take one or both of our dogs along to a restaurant. They lie quietly under or behind the table until we're done. Not necessarily a lot of fun for the dogs, but they prefer it to being left at home.
That said, restaurants in Europe are generally a lot quieter than in the US. Restaurants in the US try to push through 2 or 3 seatings at every meal - it's hectic, and probably only suited for getting your dog's tail stepped on. Here, each table generally gets used only once for lunch and once for dinner. A more relaxed pace, and a well-behaved dog is no problem at all. The disadvantage, of course, is that fewer seatings means that eating out is more expensive, and not something you do every day.
bradley13
at December 6, 2012 5:16 AM
P.s. for those who are surprised that dogs lie quietly and don't beg, it's really quite simple: you never, never feed them anything while in the restaurant. That means that restaurants are boring places, so it's best just to take a nap.
bradley13
at December 6, 2012 5:18 AM
When we travel to Europe and see all the well-behaved dogs off leash, my husband and I always get into an extended debate about whether US dog owners are lazier about training or whether it's the breeds we tend to have (energetic hunting and working dogs) compared to the ones the Euros have (companion animals). Probably a bit of both but that doesn't make for a fun argument.
Astra
at December 6, 2012 5:51 AM
Lucy has NEVER been allowed people food, and thus has no idea she can have it, unless something falls on the floor and she's quick enough to get it. I give her a tiny morsel of chicken or cooked hamburger -- and I mean TINY -- about once every six months.
She is also perfectly trained. I don't think it's good for dogs to be off-leash because something can happen -- they can be scared by a loud bang and run into the street. And Lucy is an old lady now and doesn't go for walks; she just goes out in my tiny yard. But, when she was able to, I had her trained to stay right by me with the command "With me!"
She also obeys "no noise!" "Lie down!" (She has a little trouble discerning between "sit" and "lie down," but that's just because she's beautiful and a little dumb.) Also, when she was younger, she'd get into the car herself with "Hop in!" Understanding her tiny brain, I used that for getting up on any high surface, like the couch.
I also trained her to use a litterbox in case I'm out for an extended period. It really isn't hard to train a dog: Consistency and instant reward or punishment. When she is bad, she goes instantly to doggie jail (the bathtub), which she hates.
@Astra: I'm afraid the answer is easy: lazy dog owners and lousy training.
Working breeds are just as popular here as anywhere. One of ours is a Kelpie (the Australian equivalent of a Border Collie), the other is an...accident...that happened between two working farm dogs that lived on neighboring farms. Both are basicall well-behaved: perfectly so in places like restaurants (where it really counts), tolerably so on walks (where they know they're allowed some leeway).
The problem is the typical US dog owner. I visited my family last Spring, and they are pretty average middle-class/working-class folk. Lots of them have dogs, and their attitude is clear: dogs are a funny sort of stuffed animals. You buy one because "the kids". You play with it when you want, but mostly you ignore it. When it misbehaves, you yell at it. That's pretty much it.
Actually working with the dog? For, like, an hour? Every single day? That's not a concept anywhere in this galaxy...
bradley13
at December 6, 2012 8:01 AM
I don't think it's good for dogs to be off-leash because something can happen -- they can be scared by a loud bang and run into the street.
Oh, I meant seeing dogs off-leash in large city park. In Europe, those dogs tend to keep to themselves and don't run up to strangers or other dogs like they do here.
@Astra: I'm afraid the answer is easy: lazy dog owners and lousy training.
That was my argument, actually, so I agree 100%!
Astra
at December 6, 2012 9:01 AM
I love dogs but don't want them in restaurants.
Person A will say, "Oh, he's the nicest dog in the world," and Person B will say the same thing about their dog, but you cannot guarantee how they will react with each other. Hearing two dogs snarling at each other inside a restaurant is just wrong.
And now some bars have "dog friendly" patios, but I just see feces that never gets cleaned up.
Hearing two dogs snarling at each other inside a restaurant is just wrong.
Not saying it never happens, but in all the times I've been in European restaurants (fewer times than Anthony Bourdain but more times than Honey Boo Boo) I've never encountered a snarling, or otherwise misbehaving, dog.
My two favorite memories: the huge white sheepdog hanging out in the front of La Gueuze in Paris and an adorable little dachshund that wandered over to our table in a restaurant on Campo Santa Magherita.
JD
at December 6, 2012 7:15 PM
Eh, I'm fine with dogs on a patio or ice house or the like. Inside, not as big a fan. Really-what waiter wants to add poop-scooper to their list of duties, even if it's just a possibility? Plus, dogs shed. I don't want dog hair in my food. Yeah, people shed too, but they don't generally scratch or shake and toss it all about. Less likely with a tiny dog, perhaps, but are you just going to let tiny dogs in? That's size-ist!
My hulking bohemith isn't inside when we eat. He can get food off the counter without stretching, and I don't care who you are-chances are good that if a dog can see and reach and smell the food, it's going to try to at some point.
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/06/there_is_hope.html#comment-3506010">comment from JD
Hearing two dogs snarling at each other inside a restaurant is just wrong.
I have yet to see someone bring an ill-socialized or snarly dog to a restaurant. Mostly, they're pampered pooches like Lucy, who is, right now, sleeping on my lap on a down pillow. Snoring lightly, as a matter of fact, while wearing a tiny Ralph Lauren-like sweater and a jeweled clip in her hair.
I have yet to see someone bring an ill-socialized or snarly dog to a restaurant.
I think that's it. Self-selection at work. If someone has an ill-behaved dog, they are smart enough to leave it at home - at least, I have never seen an ill-behaved dog in a restaurant.
Ours aren't lapdogs, at 45 and 80 pounds respectively. It has happened that they growled at another dog, when the other dog passed very close to our table. Otherwise, they sleep, because restaurants are really boring places...
Just to be clear: it's not something we do regularly, but sometimes it just makes sense. For example, you have visitors in the house and don't want to leave the dogs alone with the visitors. Or you are on a family outing, including the dogs, and want to have lunch or a snack. It's convenient.
@momof4: No well-trained dog is going to poop inside, or even outside on a patio! Not really a worry. The only trouble I have seen is in restaurants where space is tight, and the tables are constructed so that the dogs can't get under them (big central pillar with spreading feet).
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/06/there_is_hope.html#comment-3506572">comment from bradley13
Dogs are just grateful out of their little furry skins to be with you, in my experience. Lucy will just nap in my lap anywhere I take her. She did it when she was young and now that she's old, she naps all the time. She just wants to be where the action is, and when she's confident that she is, well, if they aren't handing out paté to tiny dogs, and nobody's cooing over her at every single moment, who really cares?
People are made uncomfortable by dogs, with good reason, even if any particular animal is just a furry lil' snookums. It's arrogant to take one into a realm like that and expect everyone to be nice about it. Many people have had profoundly terrifying — even maiming — experiences with dogs. Sensible owners don't prove themselves to be compassionate-for-all-of-God's-carbon-creatures by demanding others suffer that discomfort in places like restaurants and cafes, poisoning respites which are for many financially indulgent pleasures anyway. People don't come there for you; they don't come there for your dog.
See also: Mothers who casually put their baby's fart-laced PamperBuns on the Starbucks countertop, as if her squealing little rodent Hermione couldn't possible be shedding objectionable bacteria. Or noises. Or vibes.
Crid [CridComment at gmail]
at December 7, 2012 6:17 PM
"Laissez tomber le croissant sur le sol. Lâche ça. Lâche ça maintenant! Lâche ça ...".
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at December 6, 2012 1:05 AM
But, but...you might die of dog poisoning.
We often take one or both of our dogs along to a restaurant. They lie quietly under or behind the table until we're done. Not necessarily a lot of fun for the dogs, but they prefer it to being left at home.
That said, restaurants in Europe are generally a lot quieter than in the US. Restaurants in the US try to push through 2 or 3 seatings at every meal - it's hectic, and probably only suited for getting your dog's tail stepped on. Here, each table generally gets used only once for lunch and once for dinner. A more relaxed pace, and a well-behaved dog is no problem at all. The disadvantage, of course, is that fewer seatings means that eating out is more expensive, and not something you do every day.
bradley13 at December 6, 2012 5:16 AM
P.s. for those who are surprised that dogs lie quietly and don't beg, it's really quite simple: you never, never feed them anything while in the restaurant. That means that restaurants are boring places, so it's best just to take a nap.
bradley13 at December 6, 2012 5:18 AM
When we travel to Europe and see all the well-behaved dogs off leash, my husband and I always get into an extended debate about whether US dog owners are lazier about training or whether it's the breeds we tend to have (energetic hunting and working dogs) compared to the ones the Euros have (companion animals). Probably a bit of both but that doesn't make for a fun argument.
Astra at December 6, 2012 5:51 AM
Lucy has NEVER been allowed people food, and thus has no idea she can have it, unless something falls on the floor and she's quick enough to get it. I give her a tiny morsel of chicken or cooked hamburger -- and I mean TINY -- about once every six months.
She is also perfectly trained. I don't think it's good for dogs to be off-leash because something can happen -- they can be scared by a loud bang and run into the street. And Lucy is an old lady now and doesn't go for walks; she just goes out in my tiny yard. But, when she was able to, I had her trained to stay right by me with the command "With me!"
She also obeys "no noise!" "Lie down!" (She has a little trouble discerning between "sit" and "lie down," but that's just because she's beautiful and a little dumb.) Also, when she was younger, she'd get into the car herself with "Hop in!" Understanding her tiny brain, I used that for getting up on any high surface, like the couch.
I also trained her to use a litterbox in case I'm out for an extended period. It really isn't hard to train a dog: Consistency and instant reward or punishment. When she is bad, she goes instantly to doggie jail (the bathtub), which she hates.
Amy Alkon at December 6, 2012 6:11 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/06/there_is_hope.html#comment-3505172">comment from Amy AlkonOh, and in a Paris cafe, she lies in my lap or, if invited, will fraternize with other patrons.
My favorites are the older couple who eat lunch upstairs in Flore who have two Yorkies.
Amy Alkon
at December 6, 2012 6:12 AM
@Astra: I'm afraid the answer is easy: lazy dog owners and lousy training.
Working breeds are just as popular here as anywhere. One of ours is a Kelpie (the Australian equivalent of a Border Collie), the other is an...accident...that happened between two working farm dogs that lived on neighboring farms. Both are basicall well-behaved: perfectly so in places like restaurants (where it really counts), tolerably so on walks (where they know they're allowed some leeway).
The problem is the typical US dog owner. I visited my family last Spring, and they are pretty average middle-class/working-class folk. Lots of them have dogs, and their attitude is clear: dogs are a funny sort of stuffed animals. You buy one because "the kids". You play with it when you want, but mostly you ignore it. When it misbehaves, you yell at it. That's pretty much it.
Actually working with the dog? For, like, an hour? Every single day? That's not a concept anywhere in this galaxy...
bradley13 at December 6, 2012 8:01 AM
I don't think it's good for dogs to be off-leash because something can happen -- they can be scared by a loud bang and run into the street.
Oh, I meant seeing dogs off-leash in large city park. In Europe, those dogs tend to keep to themselves and don't run up to strangers or other dogs like they do here.
@Astra: I'm afraid the answer is easy: lazy dog owners and lousy training.
That was my argument, actually, so I agree 100%!
Astra at December 6, 2012 9:01 AM
I love dogs but don't want them in restaurants.
Person A will say, "Oh, he's the nicest dog in the world," and Person B will say the same thing about their dog, but you cannot guarantee how they will react with each other. Hearing two dogs snarling at each other inside a restaurant is just wrong.
And now some bars have "dog friendly" patios, but I just see feces that never gets cleaned up.
lsomber at December 6, 2012 11:07 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/06/there_is_hope.html#comment-3505508">comment from lsomberJust like with people, dogs should be thrown out on the basis of bad behavior. All dogs shouldn't be assumed to be ill-behaved.
Amy Alkon
at December 6, 2012 11:19 AM
Hearing two dogs snarling at each other inside a restaurant is just wrong.
Not saying it never happens, but in all the times I've been in European restaurants (fewer times than Anthony Bourdain but more times than Honey Boo Boo) I've never encountered a snarling, or otherwise misbehaving, dog.
My two favorite memories: the huge white sheepdog hanging out in the front of La Gueuze in Paris and an adorable little dachshund that wandered over to our table in a restaurant on Campo Santa Magherita.
JD at December 6, 2012 7:15 PM
Eh, I'm fine with dogs on a patio or ice house or the like. Inside, not as big a fan. Really-what waiter wants to add poop-scooper to their list of duties, even if it's just a possibility? Plus, dogs shed. I don't want dog hair in my food. Yeah, people shed too, but they don't generally scratch or shake and toss it all about. Less likely with a tiny dog, perhaps, but are you just going to let tiny dogs in? That's size-ist!
My hulking bohemith isn't inside when we eat. He can get food off the counter without stretching, and I don't care who you are-chances are good that if a dog can see and reach and smell the food, it's going to try to at some point.
momof4 at December 6, 2012 7:17 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/06/there_is_hope.html#comment-3506010">comment from JDHearing two dogs snarling at each other inside a restaurant is just wrong.
I have yet to see someone bring an ill-socialized or snarly dog to a restaurant. Mostly, they're pampered pooches like Lucy, who is, right now, sleeping on my lap on a down pillow. Snoring lightly, as a matter of fact, while wearing a tiny Ralph Lauren-like sweater and a jeweled clip in her hair.
Amy Alkon
at December 6, 2012 8:13 PM
I have yet to see someone bring an ill-socialized or snarly dog to a restaurant.
I think that's it. Self-selection at work. If someone has an ill-behaved dog, they are smart enough to leave it at home - at least, I have never seen an ill-behaved dog in a restaurant.
Ours aren't lapdogs, at 45 and 80 pounds respectively. It has happened that they growled at another dog, when the other dog passed very close to our table. Otherwise, they sleep, because restaurants are really boring places...
Just to be clear: it's not something we do regularly, but sometimes it just makes sense. For example, you have visitors in the house and don't want to leave the dogs alone with the visitors. Or you are on a family outing, including the dogs, and want to have lunch or a snack. It's convenient.
@momof4: No well-trained dog is going to poop inside, or even outside on a patio! Not really a worry. The only trouble I have seen is in restaurants where space is tight, and the tables are constructed so that the dogs can't get under them (big central pillar with spreading feet).
bradley13 at December 7, 2012 3:50 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/06/there_is_hope.html#comment-3506572">comment from bradley13Dogs are just grateful out of their little furry skins to be with you, in my experience. Lucy will just nap in my lap anywhere I take her. She did it when she was young and now that she's old, she naps all the time. She just wants to be where the action is, and when she's confident that she is, well, if they aren't handing out paté to tiny dogs, and nobody's cooing over her at every single moment, who really cares?
Amy Alkon
at December 7, 2012 6:19 AM
People are made uncomfortable by dogs, with good reason, even if any particular animal is just a furry lil' snookums. It's arrogant to take one into a realm like that and expect everyone to be nice about it. Many people have had profoundly terrifying — even maiming — experiences with dogs. Sensible owners don't prove themselves to be compassionate-for-all-of-God's-carbon-creatures by demanding others suffer that discomfort in places like restaurants and cafes, poisoning respites which are for many financially indulgent pleasures anyway. People don't come there for you; they don't come there for your dog.
See also: Mothers who casually put their baby's fart-laced PamperBuns on the Starbucks countertop, as if her squealing little rodent Hermione couldn't possible be shedding objectionable bacteria. Or noises. Or vibes.
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 7, 2012 6:17 PM
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