Companies Should Be Allowed To Bid On Visas For Foreign Workers
Derek Satya Khanna, at NRO, tells the story of his grandfather, Satya Paul Khanna, who, at Bell Labs, helped develop the original equipment for the mobile telephone. He almost didn't get to remain in this country, because he couldn't get a green card after earning his Ph.D. and getting offered the job at Bell. He and his family packed their bags and he went to close his bank account:
The teller asked why he was closing his account. Paul explained his situation, and the teller told him to expect a call from a congressman. And just like that, a private bill providing immigration for his family was introduced by Representative Wendell Wyatt (D., Ore.) and enacted....Most such stories don't end so happily. In fact, this series of events would be nearly impossible today, as Congress rarely considers private bills (although occasionally a member will try to introduce one). The legal way to address these needs is now primarily through the H-1B visa system, which allows non-citizens to work in the U.S. in particular skilled fields, mostly technical, where the need is great.
For decades, politicians have been calling for an expansion of the H-1B visa system. There is a massive disparity between the supply and the demand for these visas. Companies try to get their applications in as quickly as they can for some share of the 85,000 H-1B visas that are allotted each year on a first-come, first-served basis. In 2008, the cap was reached in a single day. In 2012, all slots, which became available on April 1, were filled by June 12.
He has a proposal:
In the current H-1B visa system, the price of the visas does not rise or fall in response to market conditions. The entirely predictable consequence is that companies scramble for visas and often fail to get enough of them. A company whose need for the visas is strong receives the same treatment as do companies whose need for them is weak. It's a failed market model.We should greatly increase the number of H-1B visas and put them up for competitive bidding. There are many models for this. One is the spectrum auction, whereby telecommunications companies bid on government licenses to transmit signals over specific bands of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Competitive bidding would enable the companies that value visas the most to pay for them. And it would help small and medium-sized businesses, which often have the most difficulty filing their paperwork on time and often lose out to big businesses in the competition for the few available visas. Competitive bidding for visas would mean a rational market governed by supply and demand. If as a society we want to "protect" Americans from foreign workers competing for jobs, then perhaps the best way to do that is to put a price-tag differential on the foreign workers.
For example, let's say we double the number of H-1B visa allotments. If competitive bidding for 170,000 H-1B visas resulted in an average bid of $60,000 per worker, that surcharge would amount to $10.2 billion in government revenue. I would suggest that those funds be used toward deficit reduction...
via @veroderugy
I work with a bunch of Indian H1-B engineers. They're competent, very competent, but none of us are super genius level.
I'm competing with them for my job in a global market for engineering talent. I get that. They'll be doing these jobs, one way or another; if not here, the jobs will move to them. I get that too. Nobody owes me a first-world living.
I would support a modification of H1-B that was more focused on their rights, and more on bringing them here as permanents than on sending them home again. In the current system abuses and exploitation of these highly skilled indentured servants are the prevailing reality. I honor them for their moxie, far from home.
Just once though I'd like to hear a supporter of the H1-B program say "We don't want to pay the going rate for Americans" instead of blathering about irrelevant issues. Super genius is handled on a different visa, one off. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. H1-B isn't about top talent.
phunctor at December 14, 2012 2:25 AM
Sorry, but fuck that shit, and fuck that dude.
The plain fact is there is almost no need for H1B visas. It's a scam run to keep salaries down.
No companies should be allowed H1B visa employees at any site that does not have:
A) Onsite HR department
B) Ability for any candidate to walk in, submit a resume, and be seen by hiring managers
C) A program of local advertising for local jobs.
This resume by computer by HR department 2000 miles away is bullshit, and so are any claims that Americans are not available to take engineering jobs.
That guy can go fuck himself.
jerry at December 14, 2012 2:42 AM
Diito what phunctor and jerry just said - there is no need for the H1B visa system.
It is just a way to "off-shore" while keeping the work onshore.
Charles at December 14, 2012 3:15 AM
The H1-B visa has also been one of those touchy areas for computer people. Yes the system is abused and could be improved like mentioned above.
Yet, I smirk a little (well this Non-American, who does no work in USA) how some people can in one way be supporting of free markets or even a bit anti-union. But when it comes to some people and their jobs/livelihood a reversal comes. Bit hypocritical. Probably more to the issue that I do not know.
The problem (and sometimes a good benefit)is this... Government moves slowly. So fucking slowly. Some program does not work, it takes months and meetings and acts of congress to stop or even change it. So the system continues to suck until that process of coming to a decision is reached. Then back it goes for another round.
Businesses if problem usually can fix it much quicker, maybe not smarter, but they can get it done. From letting go of workers to selling a different product.
H-1B stated with good promise, but then all the loopholes where looked for and they got used. The grand idea got morphed and abused. Which happens. So ya think fix the problem, close the loopholes, make it fair. But this is government which moves slowwwwwlllllllyyyyyyyy......... So the program sticks around and starts to rot. Nothing happens. Even worse is some people like it the way it his so they lobby to keep things the way they are.
So the above seems like a possible solution, but do not hold your breath.
Just my opinion.
John Paulson at December 14, 2012 5:02 AM
I look at it that if you get a Ph.D. from an American college, a green card should be attached to the diploma. We should be taking all of them that we can get. If you think a Ph.D. will be a drag on the economy, you're not in reality.
As far as the H1-Bs -- auctioning them off would make them worthless because of the additional cost wouldn't make it profitable. The extra cost would offset the amount saved. Or companies would do like mine does. We have two different H1-Bs in the office for two different software products. They are programmers, but their primary job is to control the communication and production by the team in India.
Jim P. at December 14, 2012 6:01 AM
There are two conflated situations here.
First, there is a huge disconnect between skills and abilities required to do the job and the wish list of skills posted by HR for the ideal candidate. HR screens the resumes, and tosses those of perfectly capable candidates who don't check all the boxes. You don't need H1-Bs for these positions, which is why I dislike the system as it is today. It's abused, and we end up with an unemployed American worker to support. The H1-B program ought to minimally cover that cost before we allow it.
This isn't theory. I've hired and worked with dozens of people in technical positions over my career. One of my best hires lacked the technical skills we were looking for, but had other qualities tha more than made up for that lack. She's going to be a star.
Second, there are those true talents and highly educated visonaries who are worth retaining. Those people are going to create the jobs and inventions the rest of us depend on. Not only would I give every STEM PHD graduate a green card, I'd pay them a bonus to stay and give them a fast track to citizenship. China requires a lot of their students to go back for two years after having their US education paid for. We'd be smart if we offered them green cards and a plane ticket to come back.
In all honesty, the best are easily worth ten times what the good are. Most of us are good. Few are great. We need a lot of good workers, and all the great ones we can find.
MarkD at December 14, 2012 6:52 AM
Re: PhD getting you a green card:
I support adopting the Canadian model with regard to education and immigration (read: copying it wholesale by just crossing out "Canada" and scribbling in "United States")
The way it works is that if you graduate with a bachelors, masters, or PhD from a Canadian university, then you can get a work permit for as long as your study permit was for up to 3 years. After working in Canada for one year, you can then apply for permanent residence (i.e. green card) and from there, you can apply for citizenship after a few more years. I figure if you go to an American college, then work in America (proving by a market test that your degree was worth enough to get you employed) and don't in that time avail yourself of the social safety net programs, then yeah, you're a keeper and we should let you stay permanently.
Peter H at December 14, 2012 6:59 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/14/companies_shoul.html#comment-3517429">comment from Peter HThis sounds like a good system, Peter H. What I'm mindful of is how Milton Friedman said we can't have open borders in a welfare state. If you show you are a self-supporting addition to our society, and will benefit us, we should not make it impossible for you to come and work here.
Amy Alkon
at December 14, 2012 7:03 AM
UC California was created by California taxpayers and paid for by California taxpayers to pay for California taxpayers educations.
It used to policy/law that you get a B average in California High Schools, you get guaranteed California admission to the California University system, paid for by California taxpayers.
This is no longer the case as California's University System preferentially admits foreign residents, US and non-US, because they pay larger tuitions than the instate tuitions of California taxpayers that pay taxes to fund the California University system to teach California taxpayers.
Fuck that dude, fuck the administrators, fuck the professors, fuck the lawmakers.
Stop fucking the taxpayers.
jerry at December 14, 2012 8:29 AM
The plain fact is there is almost no need for H1B visas. It's a scam run to keep salaries down.
I won't speak for industry but they are very important in academia. In astrophysics, we have reached the point where the U.S. can't afford to build the next generation of cutting-edge telescopes alone. We have always been an international field and it's even more important now. H1B visas allow foreign postdocs to work in the U.S. Some stay long term but many go back home. I collaborate with people in the U.K., Brazil, Canada, India, etc. H1B visas enable this type of international research community.
Astra at December 14, 2012 8:59 AM
H1B visas are a scam to keep salaries down, and to avoid hiring qualified Americans.
Here is a clip "Law Firm teaches how to avoid hiring Americans"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx--jNQYNgA
also:
http://it.slashdot.org/story/12/06/12/0149237/2013-h-1b-visa-supply-nearly-exhausted
Steve at December 14, 2012 10:12 AM
What right does the government have over me if I find someone is able to do the job for less, even if he comes from a different place? Where does the government get its authority to intervene in a private, voluntary exchange between 2 people?
Trying to limit H1B visas is simply trying to provide special protection for special interests. Using that logic, why not simply force universities to graduate fewer IT students - we can't have new people competing for our jobs, right?
Snoopy at December 14, 2012 10:26 AM
From mises.org:
"Immigration is not different from other kinds of licensing even though it has been awarded a special name. Licensing has the same result regardless of what is licensed: licensing of physicians causes poor health care at higher cost just as licensing taxi businesses causes poor and untimely service at high cost — licensing on movement means restricted freedom and higher taxes for people (whether "citizens" or "foreigners"). From a libertarian point of view it should be clear that all licensing needs to be done away with, including immigration."
Snoopy at December 14, 2012 10:29 AM
> H1B visas are a scam to keep salaries down
Perhaps, but so what?
So is legislation reducing union powers.
The goal of government shouldn't be to force employers to pay higher wages than they would otherwise, nor is that beneficial for the nation as a whole.
Snoopy at December 14, 2012 10:31 AM
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