Where Was Dad In All Of This? The Question Not Being Asked In Newtown Mass Murder
Even if there was mental illness as the root of this -- as I think there must have been -- an intact family, a father in the home, may have made a big difference. Imagine being a single mother handling a troubled, mentally ill son all by yourself. No backup. Nobody to be the bad guy -- the guy who puts his foot down.
Ned Holstein emailed from Fathers And Families about the question not really being asked (save for a few places here and there, I'd add):
We don't hear about the effects of fatherlessness, especially on young men. We don't hear that the most reliable predictor of crime is neither poverty nor race but growing up fatherless. We don't hear that a large majority of violent criminals were fatherless. We don't even hear that young male elephants go on violent rampages unless they are kept in line by the old bulls.We know that Adam's parents separated around 2006 and divorced around 2008. We know that his father, Peter Lanza, moved to Stamford, CT, re-married, and is believed to earn about $1 million per year as a General Electric executive -- enough that Adam's mother and he have lived in a big home and that she has not worked.
The Daily Mail reports quotes several of Adam's former classmates to the effect that his problems got much worse after the separation. "He was always weird but the divorce affected him. He was arguing with his mother. He was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode."
Several news organizations have combed through the divorce records for tidbits, but none of them have reported obvious issues of importance. Was Mom stable and capable of helping and of overseeing Adam (apparently not)? Was she careful about keeping her guns out of Adam's hands (apparently not)? Did Dad try and fail to get custody? Has he remained active in Adam's life (probably not: he chose to move 40 miles away, and we have heard almost nothing from him since the tragedy.)? Was he more capable of keeping Adam in line than Mom, or of seeing that he got help? Was Adam's distress after the divorce about losing the love and guidance of his Dad, or what?
The fatherhood narrative is absent from our society and from this terrible story.
It was also absent from the awful stories of mass shooters Jared Loughner, James Holmes, Seung-Hui Cho and Jacob Tyler Roberts. Of this group, only Roberts was without a father, but we still need to understand what it is about fathers that inhibits violence in young men.
In fairness, most rare and awful events are the result of numerous influences acting together. The accident happened because the driver was intoxicated and the brakes were worn and the pedestrian was careless and the road was slippery and the lighting was poor. No one factor explains all. If just one of these factors had been different, there would have been no accident.
But fatherhood is not even on society's list. This is especially sad because a simple change in divorce laws towards shared parenting would take a big chunk out of this factor at no cost. This is a much cheaper fix than a bureaucracy to enforce new gun laws or more mental health services, not that these might not be good ideas.
...The dominant narratives of the age close the door on other truths. They are not remarked upon, analyzed, or investigated.
Our job as a movement is to put the fatherhood narrative front and center. That is my job and your job. It may be one of the most powerful ways to help troubled kids -- and prevent mass murder.
It is possible that with reformed family courts and more fathering, Adam Lanza and his victims would be alive today. We just don't know, and we never will know.
As usual, there is no lack of groups trying to use this event to promote discussion...I mean their cause. I am glad that the author points out that there may be other factors.
I no longer practice family law, though I used to do it exclusively. I also worked as a child and family therapist prior to going to law school. IMO, divorce is devastating to many children. Ideally, people should stay married if they can. Absent that, they should make the process as conflict free as possible and they should stay in close geographic proximity.
In most states, the law favors shared custody. Absent getting rid of some biased judges, I am unsure as to how the law can be made any more fair.
Steve S at December 20, 2012 6:39 AM
It was also absent from the awful stories of mass shooters Jared Loughner, James Holmes, Seung-Hui Cho and Jacob Tyler Roberts. Of this group, only Roberts was without a father, but we still need to understand what it is about fathers that inhibits violence in young men.
Well, that was rather painful. Sounds like someone else who is trying to stretch a narrative to encompass his own special issue. We seem to get a lot of that when these tragedies come up.
I agree that the importance of fatherhood is poorly discussed in our society, but this reads more like the people who have tied this event to abortion, violent video games, the absence of God in everyday life, etc.
Astra at December 20, 2012 6:47 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/20/where_was_dad_i.html#comment-3524607">comment from Steve SAs usual, there is no lack of groups trying to use this event to promote discussion..
Discussion is a good thing.
Amy Alkon at December 20, 2012 6:47 AM
I think you cannot stop crazy and / or evil people from doing crazy and evil things.
I would like to know why many gun owners (and I am one) seem to be so blase about access. Why are kids and crazies getting access to the guns? Why aren't they locked up tight? There are fast access (thumbprint style ) safes if one is worried about getting up and spinning a dial on a big gun safe while the intruders are coming thru your window.
I surely don't know all the answers. Or even all the questions.
LauraGr at December 20, 2012 7:04 AM
I've seen one report that stated that neither the father nor the older brother were on speaking terms with the mother. But I don't know if that's reliable, or what it means if it is. Verifiable information is pretty scarce on the ground right now.
"In most states, the law favors shared custody. Absent getting rid of some biased judges, I am unsure as to how the law can be made any more fair. "
In a lot of states, family court seems to be a dumping ground for incompetent lawywers and judges. They play awfully loosey-goosey with the laws and the facts, and it seems that justice is miscarried more often than not.
"I would like to know why many gun owners (and I am one) seem to be so blase about access. Why are kids and crazies getting access to the guns? "
I've been wondering about that too. Did she not keep her guns locked up? Or did the kid get the combination by shoulder surfing?
Cousin Dave at December 20, 2012 7:26 AM
I think you cannot stop crazy and / or evil people from doing crazy and evil things.
It's worth our time to try and figure out why and how crazy/evil happens. It's not supernatural. Maybe some people are born wrong, and maybe some people are born a little wrong and life events make them very wrong.
"I would like to know why many gun owners (and I am one) seem to be so blase about access. Why are kids and crazies getting access to the guns? "
There are plenty of responsible gun owners, but this seems to be a common story. A friend of mine, a cop, had his new neighbor come over one day with an assault rifle she found under the bed. The guy she was renting from moved out and forgot it was there. If you can't keep track of your guns, you shouldn't have them. (Not you personally. People in general.)
MonicaP at December 20, 2012 7:43 AM
> We know that his father, Peter Lanza, moved to
> Stamford, CT, re-married, and is believed to earn
> about $1 million per year as a General Electric
> executive
No matter how old or masculine you get to be, you will always feel the burn.
Crid [Cridcomment at Gmail] at December 20, 2012 8:33 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/20/where_was_dad_i.html#comment-3524669">comment from LauraGrRe: safes -- a friend with kids has one, and it seems the only responsible way to keep guns.
Amy Alkon at December 20, 2012 8:36 AM
We have a safe for our guns as well. When you have kids, it's absolutely essential. Even when they get older, if they don't ask, you don't just give them the combination. They don't need to know where the key is (you need both to open our safe.) unless and until you tell them.
Flynne at December 20, 2012 9:07 AM
It is interesting to me that the preferred demonization is guns and not the surviving parent... but the narrative is better.
Also? Honestly, the guys lawyers prolly told him to keep quiet. Lotsa hearsay on this one, none of it good.
SwissArmyD at December 20, 2012 9:39 AM
"I've seen one report that stated that neither the father nor the older brother were on speaking terms with the mother. But I don't know if that's reliable, or what it means if it is. Verifiable information is pretty scarce on the ground right now."
Yeah. Well, I heard reports (early ones) that he lived in Hoboken with (and without) his older son, and I saw reports that he had been killed too.
I've come be believe exactly nothing of what was reported that day. Nothing. I suggest a large dose of scepticism for everyone else, too.
Joe at December 20, 2012 9:51 AM
"The fatherhood narrative...was also absent from the awful stories of mass shooters Jared Loughner, James Holmes, Seung-Hui Cho..."
100% horseshit. Loughner lived with his parents (both of them, no divorce) and his dad loved & doted on him by all accounts. James Holmes was raised by his mom, a registered nurse, and his dad, a mathematician (no divorce). Seung-Hui Cho was raised by both parents in an intact family of Korean immigrants. Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold were both from intact two-parent families. Lanza's parents were divorced, but he was raised in a two-parent household till the age of 16 or so. When it comes to mass shooters, broken families and single motherhood are not part of the profile, with rare exceptions.
I agree entirely with the urgent need for reformed family courts and more fathering, but the evidence that acts of insane evil would be prevented that way is just not there.
Martin at December 20, 2012 10:26 AM
@Martin: You can't fact check - that's simply "not done" on the Internet. You're supposed to make up the facts to suit your narrative. Didn't you know?
I hope you'll post your comment on the original article as well...
a_random_guy at December 20, 2012 10:35 AM
http://todaynews.today.com/_news/2012/12/18/15994672-source-adam-lanza-had-cut-off-ties-with-his-father?lite
We've heard a lot about Adam Lanza and his mother, but now we have new information about his relationship with his father, Peter. A source close to the family told NBC News that Adam had cut off communication with his father, refusing to see him.
Maybe it's time to cut Dad a break.
Steve Daniels at December 20, 2012 11:06 AM
I know. It must have been caused by divorce and all the single mothers in the world. Let's not look at our mental health system, socially isolated loners who live in gaming communities, parents both divorced and together who ignore their kids, and just blame the fact that this was a product of divorce. Because, you know, this father who paid almost $300,000 in alimony and moved over 40 miles away obviously didn't have the means to see his son if he so chose so it must be the single mother. I'd wring her neck except, oops, she's dead.
This is almost as good as the argument that this wouldn't have happened if we didn't force God out schools.
Kristen at December 20, 2012 12:37 PM
I agree that there is nothing wrong with a discussion, but I am cautious to say there is a connection between dad and killer at this point.
The basic rule for firearms storage is that unauthorized people should not have access. I grew up in a house where guns were kept on an unlocked gun rack. I know the plural of anecdote is not data, but my parents likely felt that there was no danger.
We are different. Our guns are locked up, partly to prevent theft, but also because our kids are young.
Steve S at December 20, 2012 12:48 PM
"I've come be believe exactly nothing of what was reported that day. Nothing. I suggest a large dose of scepticism for everyone else, too."
Peace. I'm grasping at straws just like everyone else. Thing is, there aren't even any straws. I agree with you that basically none of what's been reported, other than the names of the perp and the victims, is reliable at this point.
Cousin Dave at December 20, 2012 1:06 PM
I know you people are going to marvel that I am actually alive to tell you this, but there were rifles stacked in many corners of the house I grew up in.
Of course they weren't loaded, and the ammo was secured.
My father was a gun dealer and smith in a VERY small town.
I have a safe now of course, and use it when I go out of town. I would also use it if there were small children around, or anyone else that I did not know well.
Isab at December 20, 2012 2:28 PM
But to get back to Adam's father. Why do I suspect that the dad knew that the kid was probably getting dangerous, and probably could not reason with the mother, who was always defending him?
Realizing there was nothing he could legally do to stop the train wreck, he retired from the field of battle, and moved on with his life.
I doubt if he had any idea that the end result would be this tragic, but you can only battle with your spouse over an ill child before it poisons your entire life.
Isab at December 20, 2012 2:38 PM
If that selfish father had simply forced his way in to the house every hour of the day and night to make sure his ex-wife's guns were locked up, this wouldn't have happened.
I'm not that well-read on the current state of feminist dogma but certainly SOMEONE can enlighten us on how the father's penis is at fault here?
Anyone?
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at December 20, 2012 2:44 PM
LauraGr:
Why aren't they locked up tight?
Google search for "Teen with gun stops intruder". There've been numerous cases in the last year alone.
By the time they're old enough to handle a gun, they should know how, if they're going to be around them.
There are fast access (thumbprint style ) safes if one is worried about getting up and spinning a dial on a big gun safe while the intruders are coming thru your window.
And in this case, the shooter was 20. He was going to know the combination to get into the safe anyway.
It's a tradeoff, and a decision. There is no surefire one way to do things. Personally, I prefer empty chamber, full magazine, and you have to operate the action. By the time the kids are old enough to know how, they're old enough to know better. Or should be. If there's a reason to protect further, then I'd consider other options.
Safes don't always work. I had one of the quick-access ones freeze up, had to use a crowbar to break it loose.
I had a .22 in my room from about 11-12 on. I was given a 12-gauge shotgun when I was 13, and a .30-30 deer rifle when I was 14. They stayed in my room, with the ammunition. As well as a lot of Dad's guns, since I was delegated to cleaning them.
My dad had a .22 when he was 8. And by 12 was out hunting by himself, by comparison of changes.
Unix-Jedi at December 20, 2012 2:53 PM
Unix- I would trust my own son with the guns. And I do. But they are still locked up because he has friends that come over. I don't trust other people's children. Nor do I wish to be culpable or negligent if they get injured or worse.
LauraGr at December 20, 2012 3:04 PM
My daughter is 10 and she handles a firearm safely enough that I will likely trust her with access to some firearms under some circumstances some time in the nest few years. If she had some kind of impulse-control issues or other significant behavioral problems, then no.
Agreed on the quick access safes. I had a gun vault freeze up.
Steve S at December 20, 2012 3:14 PM
She wasn't a single mother--she was divorced, getting alimony, and the kid could see Dad anytime he wanted. But he was in the basement, alone, and freaking out.
Kip Kinkel comes the closest to Adam Lanza.
KateC at December 20, 2012 10:04 PM
I don't think all of these school shootings are a problem... I think they're a symptom of a deeper problem. I also think fatherlessness (if that's not a word it is now) is a contributor to the root problem causing all of these shootings--namely a culture that lacks the will power for proper self-governance.
The Father in my home always kept me in line... and for that I'm most certainly grateful. I have to wonder what kind of effect the lack of a father would have had in my own turbulent childhood.
Chaz at December 21, 2012 8:30 PM
"Well, that was rather painful."
I misread it at first, as I think you did, but I don't think Amy was trying to establish that the father was absent, but rather, saying that the narrative of the father-- some idea of where he fit in-- was absent from all these stories, regardless of where he turned out to be.
It's the fact that the question doesn't get asked at all that she's noticing.
Mike G at December 21, 2012 8:45 PM
If we're looking for "but for..." solutions, why do we herd kids into these mass institutions anymore anyway? Keep them in smaller group environments, with web-based instruction. Probably a better education and a safer environment. Most schools are a race to the lowest common denominator anyway as discipline is impossible. It's why everyone is constantly on the move for "the good schools."
holmes at December 21, 2012 8:51 PM
We should never ask questions, look for solutions to problems or evaluate any decisions as being unacceptable. Fatherlessness has been fantastic for the United States. The social science has shown that fatherless families are more stable, have better educational outcomes, and have lower incarceration rates among their children. Well, none of those things are true, but at least we can pretend to be non-judgmental about fatherlessness, and try to avoid asking all questions about this horrible situation, and shutdown any type of discussion to investigate all of the problems that led to this mass murder.
Steve at December 21, 2012 9:10 PM
The fact that the father happens to be VP at Ge, which is led by Immelt who is a close crony of Obama seems to have skipped the minds of the media. Coincidence? Nah.
Catlover at December 21, 2012 9:16 PM
One of the first local investigative journalist's reports about Jared Loughner's family situation revealed that neighbors of the Loughner family were terrified of Jared and frustrated (and acted impotently) with the lack of his parent's response to his weirdness because they were also terrified of his father who apparently has a few screws loose himself. This was apparently not an avenue for further professional journalist investigation and quickly squashed because we in the "progressive" now are relentlessly taught not to "snitch" or to "judge" people and concern our neighbors about imminent pathological mental health issues that may be matters of life and death.
I live in Tucson, and when I encounter a snake (something that happens > 25 times/year), I JUDGE it as a potentially lethal pit viper and take precautions for myself, my companions, and my dogs until I prove otherwise. Why should I do anything different when I encounter a two-legged snake?
Capitalist Running Dog at December 21, 2012 9:32 PM
I think Isab called it. The father was getting as far away as he could from a messed-up kid in an emotionally incestuous relationship with a strange mother.
Given the viciously anti-father prejudice in the legal system, there just isn't that much you can do if mom is screwed up. You just have to save yourself, and any other kids you can. Sounds like dad did OK with the older brother.
Had to laugh at this:
In most states, the law favors shared custody.
Good joke! Oh wait...you're not joking, are you? And...hmm, since you're a lawyer, you can't be one of those naifs who think "the law" is what's written in the code, as opposed to what actually happens in the courtroom. So...maybe this is just one of those pious bullshit delusions you repeat to yourself when you're in the business so you can go to work every day, like the repo men and snipers.
Carl Pham at December 21, 2012 9:35 PM
My parents divorced when I was 12. I am now 60 and have yet to commit mass murder. Just sayin.....
Dave at December 21, 2012 9:36 PM
Father may have "Asperger's Syndrom"
geTaylor at December 21, 2012 9:44 PM
The thing that occurred to me is that there has been established a plurality of incidents where the lack of male parental influence upon the male perpetrator was NOT the underlying cause. In the 2 cases that came to mind, physical issues in the brain itself was the root cause: Tumors. IIRC, both the UT clocktower shooter as well as the Killeen, Tx (Luby's) shooter were suffering brain tumors that physically induced psychoses. Nothing will stop them, they will always be with us. The adherent. There's no predicting them, they will always occur in a certain percentage of the population. No amount of psychoanalysis will catch them. They will seem completely normal, and then -- BAM! You can't screen for them. They, at random, and then they happen. The best mechanism for dealing with them (as well as run of the mill sociopaths) is to be vigilant and armed.
Even then, you do have to feel sorry for them. They didn't choose this. They were good people, their brains just went haywire because of the malignant growth. I've seen this in person, albeit non-homicidally in the case of the Glioblastoma multiforme* that my late mother-in-law eventually passed away from.
*Glioblastoma multiforme was, btw, what Sen. Ted Kenedy was also fatally afflicted with. It is almost uniformly fatal. I wouldn't wish that on an enemy (even Sen. Kennedy).
gb_in_tx at December 21, 2012 9:56 PM
To hell with "shared custody". Society must hold one parent responsible for a child's moral education, and that parent is the father. Give custody to the father every time whether he wants it or not. Unless Dad's dead or in an institution, every child will have a father, and most will also have a mother, as the incentives for divorce have disappeared.
This is why children take the father's family name -- so that when Peter Lanza or Lionel Dahmer introduces himself, people will say, "I heard that name somewhere..."
Dave at December 21, 2012 10:02 PM
There was a "family lawyer" on That One Network today who tried to hang the mother from the highest tree for taking her boy shooting when she knew he had "problems."
I don't trust a single fact in this case, so allow me to speak in generalities. You know, like a lawyer. For names of symptoms trumped up into mental illnesses for purposes of bragging and billing -- ADHD, Asperger's, hyperactivity, the usual crimes of being a male child -- shooting is one of the best therapies. It proves the value of patience, focus, and self-control. Study habits improve. This is usually undertaken with a smallbore rifle.
Young women benefit from the strictures of the sport under the tutelage of Dad, Mom, or a good coach. With young men, the most striking influence is acculturation. It doesn't have to be Dad coaching: being in the company of other men, applying themselves to a difficult pursuit in a sportsmanlike fashion, provides a strong role model. Bad social habits intrude, then melt away.
This cannot be achieved by shooting by oneself. This boy lived 30 miles from the Blue Trail Range. Shooting there might have helped him.
comatus at December 21, 2012 10:47 PM
What I read today was that Lanza's father tried repeatedly to get in touch with his son, but that the boy refused to have anything to do with his father after the divorce. The boy also cut himself off from his older brother.
Blaming the father here doesn't make a lot of sense.
Read the Bridge of San Luis Rey. Searching for meaning and someone to blame, it's only human in the face of a monumental tragedy, but sometimes it just doesn't make sense.
Douglas6 at December 21, 2012 11:48 PM
The marxist/liberal/progressive goal is absolute control of the State over its subjects. In societies where there are strong family structures and communities of faith, people do not need the State. Therefore liberals must destroy these. The liberal/media narrative promotes single parent families (for example "The Life of Julia") while either disregarding or degrading the role of the father.
jetty at December 22, 2012 5:30 AM
"Where was Dad in all of this" you ask? Surely by now, a Leftist, Obama-voter like yourself should know that the Leftist-Feminist-Liberal-Socialist media does not approve of facts, data or questions that do not support "the narrative." Unable to see the forest through the trees, eh?
FrancisChalk at December 22, 2012 5:33 AM
Amy, you ask in the comments why gun owners appear so blase about limiting access. They aren't.
You need to consider this in the context of how rarely it happens that a gun is taken and used in this type of crime. The vast majority of gun violence in the country is done at the hands of people who already had the gun. Very few, particularly relative to the number of guns, occur when a child or similar gain access to a parents gun as did last week.
The vast majority of gun owners secure their firearms. The unfortunate reality is that it is next to impossible to secure against a determined higher-thinking person. Large gun safes help, but many cannot afford them.
That frankly may be own of the best governmental actions that could be taken.....tax credit for gun-safety equipment such as safes, trigger locks, and handgun lock-boxes.
Mike P at December 22, 2012 5:35 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/20/where_was_dad_i.html#comment-3527095">comment from Mike PAmy, you ask in the comments why gun owners appear so blase about limiting access.
I did? Perhaps you're thinking of someone else?
Please quote the remark.
Amy Alkon at December 22, 2012 5:44 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/20/where_was_dad_i.html#comment-3527097">comment from Mike PIf you can't afford to securely store your guns, you can't afford guns.
Gun safes are not prohibitively expensive new -- and I'm sure you can buy them used as well.
Amy Alkon at December 22, 2012 5:46 AM
Two other questions: It appears this was an un-churched family? Is that correct. Second, why did it take 20 minutes for the police to respond?
Ralph Roberts at December 22, 2012 6:38 AM
How do we know that Nancy Lanza didn't use a gun safe or other secure storage? Isn't it possible that her son killed her to get the key?
DRJ at December 22, 2012 6:40 AM
The Dad, like so many others, had been reduced to a paycheck. I bet mommy just loved raking in the alimony, right?
Kelj at December 22, 2012 7:11 AM
Just to correct one of the antecedent commenters. Jared Loughner came from an intact family and his mother has a good reputation among co-workers, but the neighbors and one-time friends of the son were fairly consistent in their description of Randy Loughner as sour, reclusive and weirdly confrontational. It appears he quit working ca. 1995 and ceased around that time to have any congenial interactions with the people around him.
Note the consistent elements: Holmes and Loughner were insane without a doubt and Lanza and Cho certainly very peculiar (in the case of Cho, much to the consternation of his family, his roommates, and certain faculty at Virginia Tech). It is a reasonable wager that some sort of institutional care would have been required. Fatherlessness is a source of common-and-garden social pathology, not these sort of black swan events.
Art Deco at December 22, 2012 7:25 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2012/12/20/where_was_dad_i.html#comment-3527180">comment from DRJHow do we know that Nancy Lanza didn't use a gun safe or other secure storage? Isn't it possible that her son killed her to get the key?
Whatever method she used, it was obviously inadequate.
And I have only a little experience with gun safes, but unless you're living 100 years ago in a dusty Western town, I believe there are combination locks.
Amy Alkon at December 22, 2012 7:29 AM
Have you considered it is entirely possible for a mother to get so wrapped up in the care of one child that the rest of the family suffers from neglect and ends up throwing in the towel? That the elder brother appears to have been deeply estranged makes me wonder if that may not be the case here.
I have watched a friend's family with concern for the last five years. At some point their physically handicapped youngest child will have to be institutionalized unless there is dramatic improvement. Their eldest son has already emotionally detached himself from the situation. The daughter appears to be in the process of doing so. The father can work a lot from home, which helps a lot. The concern is the mother is perhaps too heavily invested in the hope that something will bring about a miraculous improvement.
NC Mountain Girl at December 22, 2012 7:35 AM
I have only my experiences to go by. My parents were polar opposites, he calm and gentle, and her, fiery and stern. Together they raised a large productive family with no violence or criminality. It wasn't until well into my own child rearing that I realized just how much I was emulating him, particularly in the area of controlling my temper, inherited from my mother.
My career would separate from my family for extended periods. During my absence the children would tend to drift, like a ship with a single mooring. My return always signaled a time of turmoil, their mother was and still is easier to manipulate. Maybe, it was my stern inheritance from my mother, or my training.
After the children went on their own only one remained close. She told me that when I was there she could see and accept the wisdom I presented. When I was away she was more easily pulled off course. The others, well, their mother was their North Star, that seemed appropriate.
Recently, from the daughter that remained I close heard that, the child most difficult to manage, lectured the other siblings on my virtues. The message was of steadiness, patience, justice and some humility, using my mistakes as learning tools, while admitting when I was wrong and trying to make amens. I wish I could have been able to thank my parents for their endowment, but they were gone before the dawning. All of the children have children and one has a grandchild.
For Duglas6 I do not see the blog as attempting to apportion blame, as much asking if Adam's dad had been a greater part of his life could things have been different? Also, they are stating that fathers are an important part of the final direction of their child's life and not just a donor of DNA.
Robert in fly over at December 22, 2012 8:02 AM
Maybe Dad left because the kid needed to be committed, and mom wouldn't hear of it? I suspect she refuse to see the truth about her son, and was complicit in her death, and those of nearly 30 others.
Bobby Tables at December 22, 2012 8:48 AM
Missing from this fact-fest: who initiated the divorce?
Did Daddy ask for an end to the marriage?
Or did Mommie lawyer-up and in effect kick Daddy out of the house?
JamesG at December 22, 2012 9:16 AM
Amy,
Good gun safes are considerbly more expensive. Every one on the first few pages could be quite easily opened with a prybar or sledge hammer.
Anything large enough for a rifle that can keep a determined teen out for more than an hour or so is going to cost well over $1000.
Safes generally have a rating that typifies how long it takes a determine attacker to get in. The top of the line safes sold for gun storage are 30 minute safes...that is it will take a burglar a minimum of 30 minutes to remove the contents, IIRC.
The stuff on amazon is at best B2 or B3.
Of course a lot of gun owners actually opt for safes that are easier to open, because it just a few thousand dollars of contents, and there are a number of stories about burglars just pulling the safe out of the house buy wrapping a chain around it, and giving it a yank with a truck, thereby destroying a floor, and at least one exterior wall.
http://www.thesafesource.com/safe_ratings.htm
Owen at December 22, 2012 9:50 AM
My parents divorced when I was 12. I am now 60 and have yet to commit mass murder. Just sayin.....
It's not too late!
Steve Daniels at December 22, 2012 10:31 AM
"Fatherhood" is a forgotten factor in all of this because about 7,000 black young men are murdered by other young black men every year and what they almost all have in common is "no father I the home", in the dysfunctional black community culture.
Jgreene at December 22, 2012 12:37 PM
From today's Wall Street Journal:
Looks to me like dad was making an effort and the kid cut him out of his life as soon as he turned 18.
Brother J at December 22, 2012 3:09 PM
"I live in Tucson, and when I encounter a snake (something that happens > 25 times/year), I JUDGE it as a potentially lethal pit viper and take precautions for myself, my companions, and my dogs until I prove otherwise. Why should I do anything different when I encounter a two-legged snake?"
I live in Tucson and I've been BITTEN by a rattlesnake! In my own yard. Four days in the ICU. Shoot on sight!
Bottom line for me is -- we have a legal regime where a person can be committed for treatment only *after* they are provably a danger to self or others. I suspect (I don't know CN law) that his mother was trying to be made conservator of his person, so she could (acting as if she were in his shoes) "voluntarily" commit him. She had probably been advised that there was no ground for involuntary commitment, he wasn't yet provably dangerous to others.
Dave Hardy at December 22, 2012 7:14 PM
> As usual, there is no lack of groups trying
> to use this event to promote discussion...
> I mean their cause.
You shouldn't do faux-friendly — as if we're to forgive a friend for a slip of the tongue — unless we are in fact friends. Most everyone in my life, friend/foe, has a "cause," and I usually denote their F/F category on the excellence of that selection.
If there were a reason to hate lawyers, this blog comment would be it: Our Redheaded Amy, after years of pummeling on topics much like this, has cooked the issues down to a quintessential, irreducible paste: Where, in the larger and smaller senses, were the most intimate, contingent people in this socially-maladjusted young man's life when he prepared for his distinctly murderous rampage?
The lawyer is the man who responds as follows a brief and unenriching preamble:
> I am unsure as to how the law can
> be made any more fair.
Who asked? I can't help but think that the reason you're "unsure" is that the question Amy raises is not about law, but about decency. In a responsibly free society, "fairness" is a child's fascination; grown men and women, the kind who should be inviting new members to human life, understand that nature Herself takes no interest in what's "fair." Amy's response is handsomely feminine and appropriate: What went wrong in human hearts to let this happen? Amy's right: Fatherhood may well have failed this murderer; but that failure well exceeds law and policy... It may have come down to a guy, if not a couple. Lawyers make money by selling trivial (or retrograde) slices of "fairness" to people, but it's regrettable that the first voice in this stack suggests (without summoning or echo) that law is relevant or blameless in this instance.
I have lawyers in my family, and love them deeply... But they're not tone-deaf and careerist in hours like this. Similarly, my favorite plumbers don't feign expertise when fifth cousins are arrested for drunk driving.
> It's worth our time to try and figure out why
> and how crazy/evil happens. It's not supernatural.
> Maybe some people are born wrong, and maybe
> some people are born a little wrong and life
> events make them very wrong.
I want to disagree with Monica, at least in some trivial way, because she's mistaken about other things.
Oh well.
> We have a safe for our guns as well.
> When you have kids, it's absolutely
> essential.
Flynne. Flynne. Lookit'er. Love that woman.
> Seung-Hui Cho was raised by both parents
> in an intact family of Korean immigrants.
I've read that Cho's immigrant family was a textbook case of colliding cultural forces: His older sister was readily growing into an American life of feminine freedom and opportunity, while his own birthright presumptions of masculine entitlement were mocked in our endlessly competitive culture.
In such a case, I'll always back the Sisters: I loves the modernity. More to the point, calling such a family "intact" elides meaningful appraisal. Assimilation to American excellence is tough, but it's the best way to live... It's why his family came here.
>> A source close to the family told NBC News
>> that Adam had cut off communication with
>> his father, refusing to see him.
> Maybe it's time to cut Dad a break.
Why? Why should a father expect love, or even contact, from a family he's deserted?
> Let's not look at our mental health system
Watch the sarcasm, OK?
(You should use it every chance you get, just don't waste it on perspectives like this one.)
There's no reason to think "our mental health system" failed. I don't want a society where those people are poking around in every home, telling us who's naughty and nice. Building a "mental health system" to accommodate our propensity for irresponsibility and divorce would be fascist.
> you can only battle with your spouse
> over an ill child before it poisons
> your entire life.
I just can't find the virtue in this comment. 26 families have now been "poisoned," and millions of others weirdly terrified. If someone had to take the hemlock — to live a life of despair — maybe Dad should have been the one; I'd as readily assume so as not.
Not a joke (from me, the blogbastard): I realize that bickering can be corrosive. But the strongest souls respond not by leaving but by resisting the impulse to bicker.
> SOMEONE can enlighten us on how the
> father's penis is at fault here?
If the father's penis (and immortal soul and emotional presence and social resources) were withdrawn irresponsibly, wouldn't you find fault? (I don't know the details of this family, and am only working with the top-level speed-reading gossip-texture review of information in the comments here. In vernacular— IJS: Right?)
> I do. But they are still locked up because
> he has friends that come over.
LauraGr, too, as with Flynne: Excella-mentay-mundo-licious.
> she was divorced, getting alimony, and
> the kid could see Dad anytime he wanted.
Not as "Dad": Don't be glib. He could "see" the man who'd left his household and departed the bloodline with (if I understand correctly) a new job, a new income stream, a new professional station, a new residence at considerable distance, and a new collection of intimates to call "family".
> Coincidence? Nah.
I appreciate your cynicism (sincerely) but have no doubt that Republican corruptions are as much at fault.
> Lanza's father tried repeatedly to get in
> touch with his son, but that the boy refused
> to have anything to do with his father after
> the divorce[…] Blaming the father here
> doesn't make a lot of sense.
I don't get this, even at the gossipy level of our discussion. The guy was out. How did you feel about this guy?
> Fatherlessness is a source of common-and
> -garden social pathology, not these sort
> of black swan events.
We need not discount its contribution to them; Many killed by drunk drivers were walking at night on slippery sidewalks. So what?
> Missing from this fact-fest: who
> initiated the divorce?
Again... The responsibility will not be too singularly nor to broadly applied. I think Amy's correct to give some weight to our broad patience with family dissolution.
> Looks to me like dad was making
> an effort
"An effort." I've dated a dozen women, probably more, whose hearts were maimed by fathers who'd "made an effort."
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 22, 2012 9:54 PM
Laws can be made more fair. Current bias penalizes the father just for being dad.
Start at 50/50 custody and support then move from there based on the evidence. Women use kids to extort $$$. A damn shame for the man who cares about his kids.
He has to choose between poverty and time w his kids or indentured servitude and no time with kids.
regular Joe at December 23, 2012 9:56 PM
The killer was a nut case but that was kept secret because of the ACLU who would have been at the throat of anyone saying he was a nut case. Amazing how after the fact the people interviewed told what he was really like and the behavior of the mother too. Teachers are forbidden to chastise, search desks, use a letter grading system, use red pens or pencils, or punish in anyway shape or form. This killer, while a student wore the same clothes everyday, hardly spoke at all, kept to himself and many other tell tale behaviors that signaled , somethings wrong here but due to the laws of the land, ignored but noticed and bound by the laws. We have too many parents who think they have perfect children and should be required to attend classes that they are a problem student for a week, no chairs provided. How long do you think this perfect child is going to be a problem with Dad missing a week at work.
mixplix at December 24, 2012 3:19 AM
There is more than one way to be 'fatherless' besides death and divorce. A father's absence, apathy (emotional unavailability and distance), abandonment, addiction and mental illness, adultery, aggression, violence and abuse (sexual, emotional, verbal and physical) both experienced and witnessed can be just as damaging with just as devastating consequences as the Sandy Hook killings.
Hitler, Stalin, Ted Bundy, Obama and many other negative political, historical and crime figures are/were victims of such variations of fatherlessness.
Georgia at December 24, 2012 6:16 AM
According to news reports, it was Adam himself who cut off the relationship with his Father a couple of years ago. As a divorced Dad whose children were taken out of state, I can vouch for how difficult it is to remain a Presence -- albeit distantly -- in kids' lives. A few suggestions on how to prevent another Sandy Hook: 1) Vigorously enforce the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act, 2) STOP the War On Boys: from the time they're old enough to understand sentences, boys (and girls) hear an endless litany of the supposed failings of Men, invariably via epithets such as "Neanderthal" "Pig" and so on. It's the most common form of Bigotry in America, not to mention the most Socially-Acceptable. Knock it off. 3) Gender Equality in the Family Law/Court system: STOP offering incentives to women for kicking husbands and fathers out of their own families, and insist of shared custody in all but the most extreme cases.
Matt at December 24, 2012 8:26 AM
Fatherlessness isn't just an issue in mass killings. An experiment: check your local news whenever a local youth is killed in the act of committing a crime. Make a note of who is interviewed or mentioned. Treat yourself to a fancy steak dinner whenever his father appears in the story.
At the end of a year both your budget and your diet will be intact.
Delayna at December 24, 2012 8:42 AM
The main reason that divorce (and custody) is so difficult is due to the insane economic penalties that too many states inflict on the fathers. The mandated "child support" is seldom spent to benefit the child, but rather to support the mother's lifestyle. In my case, my payroll-deducted payment went straight to pay the mom's new husband's child support. MY kid got screwed.
Give the fathers some control over payments and expenditures and divorce is a whole different game
Snipelee at December 24, 2012 5:30 PM
Crid, you do not know what you are talking about. Unless the man initiated divorce proceedings or declined contact with his son, the son was not 'deserted'. The vast majority of divorces in couples with children are initiated by mothers and what has been published about the mechanics of their divorce make nothing clear as to who was the initiating party or why the dynamics of the relationship were what they were. The bolder rother had neither seen nor spoken to his younger brother in two and a half years. Care to assess responsibility for that?
And you are just wrong on causality. There are too few of these events to reliably isolate and weight causal factors and their importance and even making any sort of assessments requires time-consuming and uncertain personal observation.
Art Deco at December 25, 2012 9:58 AM
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