I have heard of this happening in a number of cases with heterosexual couples.

The hospital was in a difficult position here. They don't have time to read through all the documents and decide legally who was in the right so they call security and throw out whom ever is pitching the biggest fit, which sounds like .........Roger.

If it wasn't, then Roger should have a really good case for false arrest, and this will all end happily.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2013/04/13/watch-hospitalized-missouri-mans-arrested-husband-straight-brother-speak-out

This article seems a bit more balanced.

My Aunt was recently in the emergency room, while she was there there was a rucus. A very pregnant woman was brought in and while waiting for admission 2 guys came in fighting over her. My Aunt wasn't sure if the fight was they both were claiming to be the Father or both were claiming not to be. Both were 'escorted' out, while the Mom was yelling about it. Now was the hospital discriminating against men or Fathers? nope, just throwing out disruptive people. What if they let one stay?

Now in this case, does "ignited the fire in my father that had been swelling up inside of him." mean "disruptive and belligerent"? it sounds that way to me.

Do you toss out the one who started shouting first? Which going by her account sounds to me like her Father.

Or do you throw out both? since as she claims both were acting crazy. "Lee was being more crazy than my dad".

It sounds more to me like a longstanding and recurring family fued that happened in a place it shouldn't. In front of a person who wasn't having any of it.

So the question comes to mind if the hospital had tossed both out wold it then be discriminatory or not?
Was the reason the nurse tossed him "I know who you two are. You need to leave." that he was gay or that he had been and was being a disruptive influence.
I don't know, but going by the daughters account, it could be.

But Amy! You said that...

Aw, fuggit.

Or is the theme here that some of us are just getting tired of the everything's racist way of thinking just as other's are really starting to enjoy saying that everyone (else) is a homophobe?

Because, that's, y'know, what it feels like.

Got news for ya-hospitals can and do kick people out all the time, sexual orientation notwithstanding. They kick out parents of sick kids, spouses, kids of sick parents...if there's a scene or argument, you're probably gone. It's not good for your sick family member, the other sick people, or the nurses who don't have the time to play referee.

I believe that everyone should get the heck out of the hospital room unless the can calm down and focus on the needs of the patient.

When I was in labor, my husband was an ass and I might have been better off alone.

A patient doesn't need a screaming or unsupportive spouse.

I think both needed to be thrown out of the room, and possibly the hospital for a period of time.

The arrest and restraining order was wrong, especially if it was only applied to one person.

>>Which of you is going to let the hospital throw you out of the room of your spouse because their family member wants you to leave?

Well, instead of making a scene, I would calmly tell the nurse I have power of attorney and the right to be there. I would ignore the brother's proclamations, as they had no merit.

Undefining marriage into the buddy system would not have changed this situation. The hospital personnel will throw out a disruptive person. If both were disruptive then they should both be out. I suspect the indignation of having the brother try to take the lead caused Larry to get upset and tossed out.

So someone needs to explain how this kind of thing 'strengthens' marriage, since, as we've been told, same-sex marriage weakens it.

Anyone?

If I held POW and was told to leave, I imagine I would make a fuss, too. And my next stop would be a lawyer. And part of my settlement would be that nurse's termination. Not "let go." But fired.

I think I`d go with the "more balanced" account noted in a previous comment. All three men were naturallt upset, and as happens in families words - and volume - escalated, eventually leading to the two non-patients being asked to leave [the room]. The brother did, the husband resisted violently.

The genders do not seem to have mattered. And yes, this is a scene that occurs almost daily with families in hospitals. While the husband of the patient should be, and was, allowed to accompany the patient, being disruptive and somewhat violent is still reason to be removed. Calm down in the waiting area, then ask to be let back in. The other patients also must be considered.

Incredulous Goddess:

you have power of attorney over your de facto spouse and others are going around you and trying to take over?

Husbands are removed from wives and while their families take over their medical decision-making?

When was the last time you attended a large family gathering?

/eyeroll

Situations like hospital visits call forth all kinds of not-so-passive-aggressive family pecking-order arguments.

You have no idea what the backstory is.

As I mentioned in a previous post, my fiance was in the hospital in a coma after a heart attack. I have POA over his medical decisions. His father was able to have me kicked out of the hospital because I wasn't immediate family/next of kin. I wasn't stripped of my medical decision making power, just my visiting rights temporarily until my fiance was awake and was able to state he wanted me there (he had to answer a few basic competency questions as well such as name, current president, etc). Per hospital policy, if the patient wants somebody to be there, that is their decision and not the hospital's (unless there is another reason for them being prevented from being in the hospital). During the interim I was contacted repeatedly on care decisions and updates on his condition and came in to sign various consent forms for procedures they were going to do on him.

Something smells fishy with this story. A family member can't just have someone kicked out and not allowed to see the patient if the patient states they want them there. And I agree it sounds like they were kicked out initially for being disruptive.

>>We've discussed this on my radio show, how people think they'll behave really excellently under pressure and judge others harshly when they don't.

I'm not judging harshly, but I'm pretty sure I could have avoided getting arrested were I in his situation.

So all I need is a POA and I can be a big distruptive ass, throw tantrums, and not be asked to leave. Sounds stupid to me.
Sorry but this sounds like it had nothing to do with power of atourney or anything to do with being gay, but someone being tossed out for being disruptive.

Amy, people can choose who to do business with...

It sounds like the hospital violated the law. But the law covers the situation. So as long as the law is enforced, everything should turn out OK, right?

I can't stand this trend in punditry that assumes that we need new laws because people don't follow the old ones. The police don't enforce restrictions on felons owning guns...we need more background checks that won't be enforced! A few financial frauds broke already existing insider trading laws...we must need new, stricter laws that do even more to restrict business activities, even ones that should be legal! The TSA can't do their job and catch people with knives and guns going on planes--we need to give them more power to restrict even more items and rights of airplane passengers!

The fact that a hospital screwed up in handling a civil union doesn't imply that we have to call it marriage; it implies that the hospital needs to be better trained to understand the legal rights of people in a civil union.

So, your wife is in the hospital and this happens to you - relatives try to take over decisions about her care - and you just go along? -- Amy Alkon at April 14, 2013 1:53 PM

My lady was in the hospital when I came to visit one day. She was drugged out of her mind and was delusional. She thought I was her cheating ex-husband. The nurses asked me to not visit her that day.

This case is that the staff had every right to kick the disruptive parties out of the room, POA or not. Once they were out of the room sorting it out could be done. But the husband's refusal to leave make it into a bad situation.

The security guards pulling the husband out of the room may have been overstepping. But had the brother already left the room? If he hadn't then the husband was in the right. If not then that changes the story.

BunnyGirl: "Something smells fishy with this story."

It sure does. Some significant elements are being left out. This story has about as much to do with homophobia as this other story has to do with racism:

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/04/14/racism_or_polic_1.html#comments

Sorry but, under the circumstances, Roger's Power of Attorney did not give him any right or authority to manage or direct Allen's treatment. In fact, an official, government-licensed marriage wouldn't give him any such authority either.

Everybody should be glad about that.

In any case, a POA, marriage license, parental authority, brotherly love, self-righteous indignation or any form of politically correct victim status would not make loud, disruptive behavior acceptable at a patient's bedside.

A few bits of information from two articles in The Advocate:

- Allen has a long history of serious major depression, including several hospitalizations.
- On the day of the events at issue, according to the linked article, Allen was "fading in and out of consciousness." Now, what do you think might have been causing that?
- Allen's brother Lee was unable to contact him and, knowing Allen's history, apparently realized what was happening. He called 911, and police and paramedics went to Allen's house to check on him.
- Based on what paramedics found when they got there, Allen was taken involuntarily to the emergency room.

Based on years of experience that includes working with EMS (fire department), in a hospital ER, and in mental health, I would be willing to bet that one of the elements being left out of the accounts of this unfortunately all-too-common scenario is "OD", as in "suicide attempt".

If that's the case, then beginning at the time Lee called EMS it was unlikely that even Allen had any control over his treatment. The paramedics and police were in charge until they arrived at the ER; and then the doctor was in charge of his treatment, and the nurse was in charge of the milieu - POA notwithstanding.

Often in a life threatening emergency, a patient's loved ones - brother, husband, step-daughter - suffer emotional injuries that are just as severe as the patient's injuries, especially if it's an attempted suicide. Under the circumstances irrational, emotional, disruptive behavior may be understandable and forgivable, but it's still not acceptable. At a patient's bedside, especially in an ER, is no place to engage in a loud argument.

Also, the hospital denied obtaining a restraining order against Roger, and the reporter who investigated the story could not find any record of one. Roger was free to visit Allen in the hospital at his leisure.

Also, as far as I can tell from reading two accounts on The Advocate, the only one alleging homophobia is Roger's daughter. Roger's complaint seems to be that the nurse didn't acknowledge his POA and relationship with Allen. I couldn't find any mention of Allen's point of view.

And which of you, of those people, if any, thinks documents substitute for marriage for gays and lesbians?

Posted by: Amy Alkon Author Profile Page at April 14, 2013 6:25 AM

What confers marriage these days anyway? Documents. Civil documents handed out by the state. All marriages are ultimately civil unions.

I'll take Ken's interpretation for the moment as the likely accurate one.