Snowden's Dad Echoes What I Keep Saying About The Ridiculous And Abusive TSA "Security"
Nick Sorrentino blogs at Against Crony Capitalism:
I totally agree with Snowden's dad. If we have to give up our liberty to the state the terrorists have won. If we stop being the land of the free and home of the brave because we fear a bunch of guys might set off an attack at some future date, what makes us special anymore? We're just another country.We lived under the very real threat of total nuclear alienation during the Cold War, and though there were significant abuses, the Constitution remained more or less intact. But now we are supposed to cower and live like children because of the chance that a terrorist strike, which even at the most horrific level is likely to be limited, and certainly not worth abandoning living like human beings with dignity over, will disrupt the economy? America doesn't die with a terrorist act. It dies when it stops standing for liberty and the dignity of the average citizen.
There are no fly lists etc which if used effectively can reduce the threat of terrorism. The issue is that during the cold war years, there was very less risk of something happening on US soil and nothing actually happened on US soil. But that is no longer the case now with incidents that have happened on US soil. And the incidents were not small(how many people died in 9/11). Russians would convert to admire USA once they reach here, but muslims are not that way. The only way to get back the liberties which you want is to convert muslims to other religions and deport those who refuse to convert. Demolish all mosques and declare any preaching of anything islamic as an act of terrorism and subject such people to death on charges of treason. And convert the muslim world to come out of their medieval mindset(that is easier said than done. It is a lot more difficult than converting russians to embrace capitalism and democracy).But the dems and the pc people would never allow that would they?
Redrajesh at June 19, 2013 5:18 AM
Well. What Redrajesh said. And really, that's it in a nutshell. Convert or destroy the muslims, just like they want to do to the rest of us. I really think that's the only way.
Flynne at June 19, 2013 5:33 AM
And the incidents were not small(how many people died in 9/11)
2977.
8% of the number killed by complications from the flu every year.
You would need THIRTEEN 9/11 size attacks every year for terrorism to be as deadly as a really bad cold.
lujlp at June 19, 2013 5:49 AM
I dunno...the Israelis are in much greater danger and much more regularly attacked. Do they cower in fear? Do they give up their liberties?
Aaron Dyer at June 19, 2013 5:56 AM
The terrorist attacks changed our daily lives. We travel. What used to take an hour and a half one way, including driving to the airport, now takes 5 1/2 hours and we just drive. Multiply that by 60 per year and you can see what our response to terrorism has cost just one family out of 316 million Americans. Total lives lost: 2,758.
Lives lost in the Holocaust: 16 million.
Our response has been way out of proportion to the danger. Job well done terrorists.
At least our response to The Boston bombings has been more measured. We aren't making any drastic changes except to our resolve not to let terrorists stop us from living our lives.
Jen at June 19, 2013 6:43 AM
nuclear alienation
Pendant mode = on
nuclear annihilation
Pendant mode = off
I R A Darth Aggie at June 19, 2013 7:24 AM
"nuclear alienation"
Yeah, well you have to watch out for those alienated protons. They'll go alpha on you when you least expect it.
"The terrorist attacks changed our daily lives. We travel. What used to take an hour and a half one way, including driving to the airport, now takes 5 1/2 hours and we just drive. "
This is something that I really wish more people in the airline industry would understand. Say I want to travel from where I live (Huntsville, Alabama) to Mobile). It's around 370 miles. I can drive that in a little over six hours, at a cost of about $80 in gas for the round trip, and maybe $150 in depreciation cost on my car. Now let's look at the same trip by air. The shortest route involves connecting in Atlanta. I have to drive to the airport, which takes about 30 minutes. I have to be there two hours before flight time to clear security. The scheduled time for the actual flight is an hour. Figure a minimum one-hour layover in Atlanta, and then the connecting flight is about 90 minutes. Now I'm up to six hours, and $400 in fares, and I've still got to rent a car at my destination, at a cost of at least $50 per day. Plus, when I get back, I have to pay $12 per day for my own car parked at the origiation airport. All in all, it cost more, I didn't save any time, and I had to put up with the annoyance of TSA and the inconvenience of not having my own car at the destination. Where's the win there?
Cousin Dave at June 19, 2013 9:16 AM
"You would need THIRTEEN 9/11 size attacks every year for terrorism to be as deadly as a really bad cold."
Well, you can lead a horse to water... but you can't make them think.
Comparing one risk to another is always fallacious.
That means it doesn't support any claim you wish to make.
Snakes have killed more American children than terrorism. Therefore, terrorism is A-OK!
Radwaste at June 19, 2013 2:38 PM
No, therefore the TSA is fucking pointless as what they are pretending to try to prevent isnt a drop in the bucket sinking in the ocean
lujlp at June 19, 2013 7:22 PM
You are both right and wrong. There are comparisons that are valid. My odds of being shot by a terrorist on my Army base in Fort Hood, Texas are comparable to being shot by a terrorist on Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.
But then the Obama administration is calling Fort Hood an act of workplace violence. So that means it is comparable to the robbery of a Stop and Rob in Illinois.
Jim P. at June 19, 2013 8:14 PM
For all you regular readers of the Goddess' blog you can skip past this post. I'm going to post my regular rant about not needing the TSA. For all you new readers, please read it carefully and refute any statement or misstatement. ;-)
=================================================
The TSA was not needed one hour and one minute after Tower II was hit!
The paradigm, the norm, the expected, what everyone was taught to do was to sit down, shut up and wait for the plane to land and the negotiations happen. That was the model from Entebbe onward.
The passengers on board did not really know what was about to happen on September 11, 2001 at 8:46:30 when Flight 11 struck Tower I.
Even the passengers on Flight 175 probably didn't realize what was about to happen when they struck Tower II at 9:03:02.
The Pentagon crash of Flight 77 at 9:37:46 may have been still a matter of ignorance.
At 10:03:11 on September 11, 2001, United Airlines Flight 93 crashed after the brave souls counter-attacked and caused the hijackers to crash the plane.
The time difference is 60 minutes and 9 seconds from Tower II being struck to the crash of Flight 93. The shoe bomber and panty bomber were taken down by fellow passengers as well. Recently, JetBlue's Flight 191 pilot was taken down by the passengers once he was out of the cockpit. Additionally how many times have you heard of passengers' concerns and diverted flights?
The TSA is and has always been a joke, no make that a total stupidity, that has wasted our country's fortune going down a rabbit hole.
If you don't believe me look at the 9/11 timeline.
There will never be another 9/11 style attack unless the attackers can arrange planes full of geriatrics, and even then it would be doubtful.
Oh, and someone brought bombs being an issue. If bombs were effective and simple then the Lockerbie bombing would have been repeated multiple times between 21 December 1988 and 11 September 2001. That's 4647 days or 13 years. Where was the TSA in that time? There was one successful bombing that was done in Colombia and two unsuccessful attempts in that time. The bombing in Colombia was a drug dealer assassination and not a terrorist attack.
Jim P. at June 19, 2013 10:32 PM
Cousin Dave,
I lived in Huntsville a few years ago while working on missile defense. Great place. I'd love to go back. Is it still growing like a weed?
Sosij at June 19, 2013 10:50 PM
Sosij: Thanks. Building did slow down for a while during the housing crisis, but it's picking up again. So yeah, we're still spreading.
Cousin Dave at June 20, 2013 7:06 AM
"That was the model from Entebbe onward."
Jim P, FWIW and IIRC, that model started at least five years before Entebbe with the many hijackings to Cuba, where US airline passengers *first* learned to sit tight and wait it out.
HTH and pardon my pedantry while I adjust my pendant.
Andre Friedmann at June 20, 2013 6:16 PM
I'll have to do research and get back to you. I just sort of grabbed Entebbe because it is one of the more familiar ones to me and most everybody else.
I don't mind the pedantry, but the thing I keep seeing every time and everywhere I post it is that absolutely no one has tried to refute it. But they still support the TSA.
That tells me there are too many drones out there.
Jim P. at June 20, 2013 8:03 PM
Pedant mode = ON
It's "pedant", not "pendant".
Pedant mode = OFF
JimP, your odds of being shot by a terrorist are NOT comparable in different theaters of operation. How is a native, acting in his own country, a terrorist, other than by your and the American public's acceptance of the definition as "anyone who opposes American interests with violence"?
A terrorist is someone who uses violence to make a political statement. If you abandon that definition, then yes, you support the idea that a child who brings a gun to school is making a terroristic threat. Yet making people afraid - something easier and easier to do to scatterbrained Americans, let you not be among them - is NOT terrorism.
The entire reason people use fallacies is that they believe it supports their position. However, logic and reason depend on their never being used.
It's very simple. A risk has consequences. Name them, you're done. Snakebite has no bearing on bicycle deaths among children 5-7 y.o.
Scientists know that the conditions established in an experiment are critical to assessing the result, and that's what you should do here. Defining the conditions makes the differences between risks very clear.
Radwaste at June 21, 2013 3:39 AM
I looked on the map and could not find any country called Islam or Musla, so that means that Hasan can not be following orders of another nation. In addition, even if he is a citizen of the United States saying just because he's American he can't be a terrorist is like saying just because a person is black means he can't be a racist.
I won't disagree the threat of being attacked by a terrorist in the U.S. is in infinitesimally small it was still a terrorist attack.
There is another reason that the declaration matters. For the military, it changes the rules on what benefits, awards, and compensation can be provided to the victims and their families. If the survivors continue on active duty, they will be qualified for a Purple Heart. I don't know how the Army's promotion system works but it is similar among all branches. In the USAF the promotions for E-5 to E-7 is a combination of how you do on tests, your annual evaluations and what medals and awards you have. The Purple Heart is five points for each one. And I know cases where two points would have made the difference.
Jim P. at June 21, 2013 4:00 PM
"There is another reason that the declaration matters."
Sigh. That's the fallacy, "appeal to consequences".
This is so sad. All I am saying is that if you are considering whether to get out of the car and talk to the thug on 14th Street in D.C., the number of kids bitten by spiders in Phoenix doesn't apply.
It doesn't even matter what the risk is two streets over!
Radwaste at July 18, 2013 2:26 PM
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