It Isn't That Millennials Hate Cars
They can't afford them.
Matthew de Paulo writes at AOL Autos:
Sociologists, pundits and industry analysts have painted these young people as anti-car treehuggers who not only shun vehicle ownership, but shirk driving altogether.Brad Potts, 27, has lived in Detroit for seven years, all of them carless. Mopeds, Brad says, are the ultimate solution for avoiding the expense of a car in a city that was not built for pedestrians and has an almost nonexistent public transportation service.
"I'm not anti-driving, I love driving," he said. "But it's also just, so much money. It's a luxury item."
Meier said she relishes driving the Dodge Neon ACR she inherited from her father, who used to race it in the Sports Car Club of America.
"Everyone thinks we're hipsters and not interested in anything other than saving the environment or riding bikes," she said.
The non-driving generation?
Still, it's understandable that young people today -- there are about 82 million Millenials ranging from ages 16 to 34 -- have been pigeon-holed as a nondriving generation.
Far fewer teens are getting driver's licenses now versus 20 years ago, said Sheryl Connelly, a Ford futurist. A study by the University of Michigan's Transportation Research Institute found that the percentage of 16-year-olds with a driver's license dropped from 46 percent in 1983 to 31 percent in 2008.
"Now the cell phone is the gateway purchase into adulthood," Connelly said. For the youngest Millenials, virtual mobility trumps physical mobility.
Anybody see any reason for optimism about the economy?
A friend in her 70s sees economic downturns as cyclical. Well, I'm looking and looking for the end of the cycle. You seeing it?
It's not just the economy. The world has changed. All things being equal, many kids would rather have a smart phone than a car. For them, phone = freedom in the way that car used to equal freedom for us. It's cultural, and being in touch all the time is more important to them than being able to go anywhere whenever they want.
It's also regional. I never owned a car until very recently, and I'm 35. Owning a car in a huge city has always been expensive -- not the car itself, but the upkeep, the parking and the insurance. And it was unnecessary with public transportation.
MonicaP at June 25, 2013 8:16 AM
The reason the country is in the dumps is because our race-to-the-bottom CEOs decided they'd rather scoop up short-term profits by exporting jobs.
We're seeing the results of that now. Bad products, lowered taxes (both corporate and income since few have jobs), no money for infrastructure, and an ever-widening gap in the standard of living as the middle class is destroyed. Kids can't buy cars? Kids can't get jobs.
We are becoming Mexico and India. Welcome to SlumWorld.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at June 25, 2013 8:28 AM
As to the end of the economic downturn, here's something that might shed some light. Historically, throughout the world, countries whose public debt reached 90% of their GDP took an average of 23 years for their economies to recover. In the USA, that number is now 105%, with debt still growing a lot faster than GDP.
So while your friend is right, and these things are cyclical, this is going to be a very long cycle, and we aren't going to see an improvement until we are old ladies, if we even see it in our lifetimes at all.
Pirate Jo at June 25, 2013 8:48 AM
All things being equal, many kids would rather have a smart phone than a car.
Yeah but ya can't get laid in the back of a smart phone!
Flynne at June 25, 2013 9:04 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/06/25/it_isnt_that_mi.html#comment-3767386">comment from FlynneExcellent point, Flynne!
Amy Alkon at June 25, 2013 9:05 AM
There is no economic downturn. Obama has already fixed everything that Boosh and the evil rethuglicans screwed up, except for a few teeny tiny little details that he'll get to when he gets a democrat majority house back next year.
dee nile at June 25, 2013 9:06 AM
Yeah but ya can't get laid in the back of a smart phone!
And you can't get unlimited free porn in the back of a car. :)
Here's a case for optimism:
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/06/04/why-im-an-optimist.aspx
MonicaP at June 25, 2013 9:22 AM
Dont forget Cash for Clunkers. Kinda hard to buy a used car when most of them have disappeared
lujlp at June 25, 2013 9:59 AM
Driving isn't insanely expensive if you don't need to have the latest fastest car with the newest expensive gadgets designed to break, or the hugest gas guzzling monstrosity you can find, assuming you know how to repair a car yourself. Everyone who drives a car should have to know how to change the oil, tires, and repair a belt or two. Or be related to someone who does.
That's also assuming you don't drive like a psychopath and have a claim or two and three of four tickets behind you, and live in downtown N.Y.
Point being, if you're responsible and knowledgeable, the cost of driving is actually pretty affordable, especially given the cost of public transit.
Myself, spent $800 on a beater, $550 on repairs, and $750 for insurance for the year. Total cost,$2100. Total cost of bus pass for the year, $1740. So I'm really only saving $360, which is a pretty minor cost when you consider that I don't have to wait anywhere, can go anywhere I like in one trip, don't need a cart for my groceries, and can take my dogs anywhere I like.
wtf at June 25, 2013 10:15 AM
Depends on where you live, wtf.
When we lived in Brooklyn, we paid $250 a month for parking because Brooklyn has alternate side of the street parking 4 days a week, and we were constantly getting tickets for failing to move it on time. There was frequently no place to park anyway.
We had mostly clean records and still paid $3400 a year in insurance, as opposed to the $400 a year we pay in Denver. Not to mention the costs for license renewal, registration, etc., plus the costs for any tickets, which are easy to get when you live in a city that views parking tickets as a vital revenue source.
My friends who used a car-sharing service or public transportation were much happier.
MonicaP at June 25, 2013 10:30 AM
As I said, depends whether you live in downtown NY or butt fuck nowhere, Newfoundland.
I live in Ottawa, one of the most highly taxed cities in the most highly taxed nation in the world. The crime rate in one of our "ghetto's" is second only to Vancouver, where all good hookers go missing.
You wanna talk about parking costs?
$2.00 per 15 minutes. At a meter. Don't even ask about the lots.
But, parking isn't really the issue when it comes to car associated expenses. The insurance is, and if you live in a high crime rate area, HA! Good luck with that one.
But then, at least in Canada, if you live in a high crime rate area, you probably can't afford a car in the first place.
wtf at June 25, 2013 11:12 AM
"Anybody see any reason for optimism about the economy?" - "Zillow predicts California home values will increase 21.8% next year."
"Kids can't buy cars? Kids can't get jobs." - We've disconnected spending from earning, for better or worse. cf my first point.
"$750 for insurance for the year." - Lemme guess, you think $15,000 is enough coverage to make me whole after you (or in this case your kid) T-bones me because their car couldn't stop fast enough on those $10 autozone brake pads that his buddy swore he knew how to install. Driving should be expensive. I've now sent the last two cars to the pick and pull because I decided it was socially irresponsible to sell $500 cars to the type of people who show up to buy a $500 car. I knew they'd stop paying the insurance as soon as they got the registration stickers.
smurfy at June 25, 2013 12:07 PM
All of this smacks of stupid lazy trend journalism.
Live in Manhattan, San Francisco, and well connected urban centers, and you don't want a car. Live in Ohio, yes, you do want a car. And no, I truly doubt the Phoenix kids consider a smartphone a better gift than a car.
But when I was 20, a 7 year old good looking, reliable, easily maintained used car in good drivable condition cost me $3500 today's dollars, and tires cost $40 per tire.
Like everything else, costs have continued to increase beyond so called inflation while wages have stagnated.
jerry at June 25, 2013 1:53 PM
"enough coverage to make me whole after you"
No actually, I think it's enough coverage to get me on the road.
That's why I get free healthcare. Insurance up here takes care of property, and perks in the medical system. OHIP covers the rest.
Your body and it's wholeness is not my problem.
wtf at June 25, 2013 2:03 PM
A friend in her 70s sees economic downturns as cyclical. Well, I'm looking and looking for the end of the cycle. You seeing it?
A recent Paul Krugman column: Sympathy for the Luddites
JD at June 25, 2013 2:20 PM
wtf, huge expense you left off that list: gasoline. To say nothing of our other fluids that need replacing. So, you lost a lot more.
Patrick at June 25, 2013 2:55 PM
"Your body and it's wholeness is not my problem."
At first it smacked of a stunning attitude problem, but it turns out you are correct, no subrogation in Ontario. Good and bad to that I suppose. down here I don't cut off people in a POS, they have nothing to lose. Up there, nobody does.
smurfy at June 25, 2013 3:32 PM
Your body and it's wholeness is not my problem.
If you damage it through carelessness it will quickly become your problem.
dee nile at June 25, 2013 3:58 PM
I am sure it varies a lot by location. I actually can't think of anyone I know whose family doesn't have a car (perhaps one for husband & wife). Even though public transit is pretty reasonable here - and supposedly quite good relative to the most the rest of the US - it still sucks other than right downtown in which case you could probably walk. I do sometimes use public transit to go downtown but I still drive 1/2 there to transit center. I guess reasonably you cannot live without a car.
Most the Millennials seem to have really nice cars - usually bought by their parents. The people with junkers seem to the oldest ones and the Gen-Xers.
Now that I think about it where I used to live I dated a girl who didn't own a car...she did live downtown and used a zip car service a couple times a month.
The Former Banker at June 25, 2013 8:53 PM
I would LOVE to live somewhere where I could get rid of my car. I live in a small downtown area so I mainly just drive to work, but if I could work/live where I could permanently ditch the car and only rent one when I actually wanted to drive somewhere far away, I would be in heaven.
Daghain at June 25, 2013 8:54 PM
"I've now sent the last two cars to the pick and pull because I decided it was socially irresponsible to sell $500 cars to the type of people who show up to buy a $500 car"
But it's not irresponsible for you to have been driving $500 cars?
Lobster at June 26, 2013 5:58 AM
Lobster, you should realize from context that he's clearly not one of 'those' people.
West at June 26, 2013 12:23 PM
> Live in Manhattan, San Francisco, and well connected urban centers, and you don't want a car.
Lived in SF for 25 years and a car is absolutely vital here. Car ownership rates have not changed much in SF over the last 25 years either. Basically 70%. A 20 min trip by car across town takes several hours by public transport. Only tourists (young people here for a few years) cycle. And then only on sunny days.
The only cities I know that one can survive without a car in are Central London (Zone 1) and inside the Périphérique in Paris. Elsewhere in Europe cars are just as much a necessity as they are in the US. But like the younger folk now in the US, Europeans have a lower car ownership rates not because they dont need or want them, but because they cannot afford them. In Europes case due to eye-watering taxation. The difference in the price of gas is all tax.
jmc at June 26, 2013 12:43 PM
My 76-year-old mother says the national zeitgeist has never been this toxic, and that that does not bode well for the economy.
I prefer your friend's outlook. Let's hope she's right and not my mom.
Amy at June 26, 2013 12:56 PM
@wtf "That's why I get free healthcare"
Free? Hardly, all Canadians pay for it through income tax surcharges, Provincial sales tax and a federal Goods and Services Tax of 5%. A Value Added Tax that taxes every stage of a service provided or an item's movement in the marketplace. From the raw materials, manufacture or importing, wholesale; layering tax after tax onto the final cost of goods, which is progressive, each stage taxes on the total of the previous invoice (value added), so you're paying taxes on taxes. That could easily add 30% to the final sale price of an item manufactured in Canada with Canadian raw materials. The item is then taxed at point of sale by PST. Ontario's PST is 13% which effectually means you are paying 43% more for every taxable item you buy.
Then there's income taxes, an income of $45,000 which for a family of 4 would be just above poverty level, what we call the working poor, pays 22% federal and 9.15 in Ontario.
Even with GST/PST credits for low income earners, That's some pretty expensive "free" healthcare you got there Pal.
You're either very naive, terribly uninformed...what we call a "low information voter"...or a troll.
BTW sales tax and VAT are the most socially unjust and regressive means of taxation as they fall disproportionately heavy on low income earners, young families,the disabled,the elderly and the poor...which why they lead to blackmarket profiteers, scofflaws, shortages and eventually overturn govts and political parties.
BJM at June 26, 2013 1:35 PM
Ever try getting the kids to school, transfering them to sports and music, meeting with their teacher, getting to and from work yourself, picking up a week's groceries and taking the dog to the vet, without owning a car? Adults with children perform 3-4 of these tasks a day as a matter of normal daily life.
The experiences of single, childless people do not translate easily to the rest of the world. But in just a few short years they will be taking their elderly mother to the Dr. at least once a week. On the bus? On the back of the moped? In a shared car? Yep, sounds workable.
garrettc at June 26, 2013 1:53 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/06/25/it_isnt_that_mi.html#comment-3770008">comment from garrettcYou can't have kids if you can't afford a car.
Of course, the thinking in our society is that other people should buy you a car and pay for your kids' medical care rather than taking the tack my dad did: Waiting until he was in his early 30s to get married and buy a house (paying in full) so he knew he could support a wife and family.
Amy Alkon at June 26, 2013 1:59 PM
The economy will get a lot worse. Price controls are never good and price controls on money are incredibly deestructive. Prices convey information,when it costs nothing (or less) to borrow money bad investments are not liquidated, they linger on and incredibly bad ideas (like Solyndra) are financed while savers and those on fixed incomes go to the wall. Closing all the coal fired electric plants will result in increased energy costs and blackouts on overcast windless days. That will certainly make American industry more productive . All the people employed in those plants as well as the mining industry can enjoy prolonged vacations in Arubas . Once they have all left we can sell west virginia to China .
mr burns at June 26, 2013 2:23 PM
Before cell phones, any time you were going from one place to another was dead time, and you wanted a car to get from one place to another at your convenience, and as quickly as possible.
However, with a cell phone, and a laptop, you can always be connected, and/or productive. If you are driving, you can't be, so it's better to leave the driving to someone else, even if it takes you longer to get there.
Doug Wenzel at June 26, 2013 3:13 PM
Before cell phones, any time you were going from one place to another was dead time, and you wanted a car to get from one place to another at your convenience, and as quickly as possible.
However, with a cell phone, and a laptop, you can always be connected, and/or productive. If you are driving, you can't be, so it's better to leave the driving to someone else, even if it takes you longer to get there.
Posted by: Doug Wenzel at June 26, 2013 3:13 PM
It really depends on where you live. Once you have to have a car for a certain numbers of trips a week, the more you drive it, the lower your cost per mile is.
The fixed costs of mere ownership, and then upkeep, have to be divided by the number of miles you drive.
My husband is working in Japan right now. Unless we lived in inner Tokyo, there is no way that public transportation would be sufficient for us to get along without a car. 20 feet of snow per year makes bicycling and walking damn difficult.
Isab at June 26, 2013 4:12 PM
@ Patrick- Yes but you can do things to bring the cost of gas down by getting a smaller car, less frequent trips, etc. You can't do anything about the cost of the insurance. Except maybe not drive like a psycho.
@ BJM - Unless you actually live in a society with free healthcare, you can't criticize.
I am aware of the taxes I pay dumbass. I stated before you even opened your ignorant mouth that our taxes suck. BUT, I would rather have high taxes than have my family bankrupted for a minor surgery, or have to worry about what happens when some idiot kid jumps into the middle of the street.
I'M not the one who can lose my life savings over a car crash. Can you say the same?
Thought not. Take your ignorant ass and go bite Crid.
wtf at June 26, 2013 6:21 PM
I'M not the one who can lose my life savings over a car crash. Can you say the same?
Thought not. Take your ignorant ass and go bite Crid.
Posted by: wtf at June 26, 2013 6:21 PM
Actually read your automobile policy. This is why we have liability insurance. It covers you in case of a car accident, when you are hurt, or if you hurt anyone else.
And people who drive without insurance down here, dont tend to have any savings, at least not in this country. This is why auto policies have UIM. Which stands for uninsured and under insured motorist coverage.
Isab at June 26, 2013 9:28 PM
"Now the cell phone is the gateway purchase into adulthood,"
That's just sad
bandit at June 27, 2013 4:26 AM
"Actually read your automobile policy."
"It covers you in case of a car accident, when you are hurt, or if you hurt anyone else."
Ever think we have different laws up here Isab? That maybe, just maybe, we might do things a little differently? Or are you just that arrogant?
We have UIM too, but again, as the Feds cover our medical bills, this only applies to property and disability claims. We have private insurance for the services the Feds don't cover, but this applies to upgraded services, medication, private rooms, etc.
If you're in a Canadian vehicle, your healthcare is covered. Point final.
wtf at June 27, 2013 9:55 AM
Wait, how is the Moped-driving Brad getting around on said Moped 7 months out of the year in Detroit? May through September would be the only months where you could get around without looking like Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels in Dumb and Dumber frozen to their motorcycle.
Juliana at June 28, 2013 4:39 AM
"BUT, I would rather have high taxes than have my family bankrupted for a minor surgery, or have to worry about what happens when some idiot kid jumps into the middle of the street."
False dilemma = fallacy = point not made.
What is actually happening is that all of the taxpayers are paying for a fraction of them who are injured or need surgery.
You have the high taxes, regardless. No matter what you do or how safely you behave, you will still pay those taxes. You still have to worry when that kid jumps.
And if the government wasn't funneling money into government employee salaries and pensions, your "minor surgery" wouldn't bankrupt you at all.
You haven't examined the shell game you're in, that's all.
Radwaste at June 28, 2013 9:02 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2013/06/25/it_isnt_that_mi.html#comment-3773920">comment from RadwasteIf you have a child, pay for your child's health care, including what could possibly happen.
If you're not willing or able to do that, use several forms of birth control at once, please.
Amy Alkon at June 28, 2013 9:13 AM
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