I was having a bad day, and I have little patience for stupidity on my good days. Quite frankly I owe the woman in question an apology, though I doubt I'll ever see her again.

I was in college and this woman start in with "gender is a social construct" And I interupted her and said "Really, so if biology can be altered so easily by thinking about if why dont you have bigger breasts" Cuase she was always complaining her breasts were too small.

The conversation went down hill from there

Personally, I never saw anything wrong with body hair on a woman. The few women I dated who had it made me feel like I was going out with someone from Europe. However, I did have one girlfriend (who shaved her body hair) react in a disgusted manner when she found out I didn't have a problem with hairy armpits on women. Mind you, I did not ask her to let her armpit hair grow out.

Prefer none, but will accept some growth. People will not always be perfect. But at least try.

I love the logic above by not shaving a women is refusing sexist love. But... the woman wants sexist love. Yet she refuses it by not shaving or wearing nice pretty clothes. Hate when people want their cake and to eat it too, all without earning it.

It is like a man who thinks because he bought a women dinner, he deserves some sex.

Sorry biological obligations are not always going to trump social obligations.

The world does not operate always in absolutes or in a vacuum. There has to be be some give and take. From how people dress, speak, or even act. You can go against the norm. Just be prepared to suffer the consequences.

A question then, in my way of absurdism. What about crapping and pissing? Why do people have to find other places to do it? Sometimes with privacy. Demanding me to find a toilet when I need to pee is (stilling trying to come up with some academic sounding gobbledygook). It just is not right.

"Gender is, in the first place, a social fact" (Kessler)

Whenever I see the form " fact", I always figure that means "not actually a fact", because if it was, it wouldn't need the modifier.

I was thinking more of Hairy Potter and the Half-Waxed Pitts.

Seriously, shaving (or not) is in part a cultural thing. Most American men shave their faces, and many jobs (Disney, the army, many restaurants and retailers) require a clean shaven face. I'm sure a few jobs require women to shave their legs, but these are probably somewhat less common. Plus, women can wear dresses or long pants, while men can't wear bags over their heads, much as we'd like to some days.

The equation to remember as regards shaving legs is this: Clean-shaven > natural > stubble. If you want to shave, feel free, but you need to have the discipline to keep shaving.

That was supposed to be "<adjective> fact"

Body hair removal is a widespread phenomenon among American women. It is considered feminine, hygienic, and attractive ... [BLAH-BLAH-BLAH] ... These socially constructed truths are pushed on adolescents ... [BLAH-BLAH-BLAH ... social fact ... [BLAH-BLAH-BLAH] ... norms of patriarchal society ... [BLAH-BLAH-BLAH] ... refusing sexist love. 

Did you know they pass out college degrees for stuff like this?

As far as shaving the legs and the pits: Not a terribly big deal to me, as long as we're not talking about terrible shagginess. I'd care more about cleanliness and health, though she might want to steer clear of sun dresses...

meh.
I dun care if you shave or not, I'm not going to.

IF we get close enough to touch each other, well, now some negotiation is probably going to happen. I have a full beard, and I look better with a full beard. Somehow I went from looking too young, to looking like a pasty faced middle aged man, without the intermediary time of looking ruggedly handsome... so since I have to fight the beard anyway [think Erik the Red], I just left it.

WHEN I have had girlfrinds who liked the look of it, it only became a problem when we were kissing and such, and there were numerous times I shaved it right off, when they complained. Only to have them hate the way I look... :shrug: you can't always get what you want.

The thing is, you can't see yourself. [unless you have a zztop beard] If a woman is hairy legged or not isn't noticeable unless the hair is dark and coarse, and it doesn't bother me, even then. What I have found is that women are a lot more neurotic about it... and maybe that is conditioning.

in terms of 'hair down there' same thing. I din like clean shaven or waxed as much, because it seems pre-adolescent... else, all I care about is clean, I'm going to shower before we get busy, probably, so?

What attracted me from a distance is nice hips and a ready smile. From there I canna see a unibrow, or know that you have bushy pits. Sure, the more different we are, prolly the more attracted I'll be... it's not a deal killer.

IFF you want wiring? I saw a mature lady the other day, wearing a sundress w/ tshirt... and I couldn't look away. She didn't look like any other woman around her [they were all wearing pants/sweats] and she moved with a grace, but also with a little jiggle here and there. I was NOT the only man around that was checkin her out, even with a full head of white hair.

What was drawing all that attention? Would it have mattered to me if she was a lola granola who never shaved? not in the least.

One of my favorite Soprano's quote... When a guy gets released from prison after a long time.
"You know what’s the biggest change for me? Broads shaving their bushes. I went over to Silvio’s; it’s like the girl scouts over there.’"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUjJEZZj_tA

12 second mark.

I shave my pits and my legs. Dark hair, light skin, it just looks better. Besides, my legs would look like a gorilla's if I didn't shave. I also have a unibrow, so I do get that waxed once a month. I'm just so used to it, and even if I let it grow back in, it'd be too itchy, I wouldn't be able to stand it, and off it'd go! I like using a depilatory because then I don't have to shave every day. I like the smooth skin feel, and so does the BF. Eh. As long as I can stand to shave and/or remove it in some way, I will, I guess. I'm used to it...

I think it would be icky to put deodorant on hairy armpits. It wouldn't go on invisible, it would stick to the hair.

I'm one of these women who like to be well-groomed and clean. For me, that means shaving as well as trimming areas that need "maintenance".

I personally don't like the feel of my husbands stuble on my face. Its itchy and burns my skin. While he's never complained when I've been unshaven, I'd like to think that the same thing applies. It goes hand in hand. If I want him to keep shaving, I've got to keep shaving.

My personal preference is shaved, though, if I thought a woman was really, REALLY worth my time, I might overlook these things. A feminine, symmetrical face, and an interesting mind trumps a lot of other things...

Considering some of the main complaints from women about men is they didn't notice She did x to make her look better. Where x is a litany of, wore a new dress, change her hair style, wore different perfume, different makeup, and shaved her legs.
All it really shows is men care way less about his than women think they do, frankly men care way less about it than women do.

I dont have a lot of body hair. Seems to be less as I get older.
I occasionally shave, but not too often. Haven't had a skirt or a dress on in so many years, it hardly matters.

If I had a new man in my life, i would treat shaving the same as I do hair styles and cooking. Which is, ask him what he liked, and adapt accordingly.

Anything can be a fetish - especially when given 'taboo' status by its banishment. That aside, I have no problem with hair on a woman. In some cases I prefer hair 'there'. Never understood why the press made such a stink when Julia Roberts showed up at a premiere with unshaven armpits under her gown.

Hair can be sexy, or not. Depends. I happen to live near this place where I can go get my legs waxed by two girlies at once. Way cool!

(Since you asked Amy, I assume it is for your writing)

On a select few women I think armpit hair is incredibly sexy, but they have to have the right look. Thnk Carla Bruni, Bo Derek, a natural feminine beauty. Two times I have dated women who didn't shave their armpits often, and nuzzling into that area can be... oooohhhhhh.

Pubic hair- I don't much care for the shaved look, except it does seem more pleasant for going down.

Hairy or stubbly legs- yuk. Oh, and one woman I fooled around with had a hair line going from her bell button to down below- I did not like that at all. Hairy nipples- ugh.

Its HOT in the AZ so I trim, it cuts down on the BO if you've been of in the heat, it also cuts down on the heat rash.

As for women, I'd say the biggest factor is how coarse your hair is. You got hair a smooth as a kitten its a far different experince than if its a rough and wiry as the arm hair on the guy who worked the construction yard with you.

As to those who make the argument that a grown woman shaved smooth is like a prepubecent, why dont you argue that at women who like a smooth shaven face on men?

Okay, as a woman who shaves pits & legs religiously (think Sasquatch), I am desperate to know what the guys think. My hubby has always said he doesn't care, bug I'm dying of curiosity to see what the general consensus, especially regarding legs.

I was the pubes, and shave the pits and legs daily. I get stubble, but it's not too noticeable in those places. Hubby begs me to shave between waxes, but that leads to coarse stubble. I've tried shaving twice a day, but that just leads to razor burn. I've had people suggest that I get rid of the other hair on my body - the cheeks (both of them) and arms. My God, where does it stop? Thank you Viking Blood!

A woman not shaving is really not comparable to a man not -showering-! The facial hair is a good comparison, but the comparable thing to a man not showering is a woman not showering.

My hair is dark but very thin, so it's never very dramatic, I just shave the lower legs and underarms as needed.

Guys, is this a turnoff to you, or do you just prefer the smooth-shaven look?

We call that "begging the question". I don't find the natural look
unattractive. I also consider it a plus when a woman is able to
resist the heavy pressure in U.S. society to conform on appearance.

I couldn't care less about shaving my legs. I do it when it really needs doing, because of society. I can't STAND having underarm hair, or a nongroomed mons. It's just uncomfortable to me, whether anyone else ever saw it or not. Plus, hair absorbs odors as well as giving bacteria a great place to thrive, so hair=odor in those warm wet places, unless you've JUST showered.

On men, I don't like a lot of hair.
It's just a barrier between me and the skin. I dated a MMA fighter once who shaved his entire body and head. That was awesome on him. Probably not quite so great on someone less fit. I've always gone for really fit dudes, though, so it worked. I REALLY can't stand underarm hair on guys. Anything but that.

Shave those pits and legs, but leave the pubic hair alone. I love pubic hair, the more the better. Showing my age, I suppose. Lost my cherry to a woman with abundant pubic hair, and I've never looked back.

I have fast growing, dark hair, prone to stubble, ingrowns and razor burn. I have tried exfoliating before and various soothing products afterward, my legs end up okay but nothing seems to work very well down there for me. Fortunately my guy absolutely loves a full bush. And he's still very much into general good hygiene, grooming, even fashion. I live in Germany, shaved legs have become pretty standard here for younger women within the last 5-10 years, shaved armpits common but not universal, and you still see a lot more pubic hair here than in the US. I feel like smooth legs are always sexier and more feminine than hairy legs, so I like to shave if mine are going to be on display and my guy seems to enjoy it. But pubic and armpit hair seem to depend more on arbitrary cultural differences, trends, and private preference. I feel cleaner and sexier with shaved armpits, but my guy has gone wild when I've let them go hairy a few times. So I don't put shaving body hair in the same category as dressing up pretty. I'm sure being hairy in various places will be back in vogue someday anyway.

Hair is a protien based fiber, I find it amazing we have all these product to save men from balding, but not one designed to kill hair

For a lady to have hairy pubes, I can deal with it, but I prefer at least trimmed, if not shaved.

I have never been with a lady that didn't shave pits or legs. But the few I have encountered that didn't also had personalities that just totally turned me off, regardless of the hygienic routines.

Women with dark hair on their faces are a turn off for me...same for breasts and the front of the torso. I don't care about the legs and arms so long as she doesn't appear like Sasquatch or Cousin It. I only care about the pits in the most extreme cases. Down there I generally prefer closely trimmed but definitely there...a few have been attractive to me while totally shaven.

I think likes vary a lot from person to person. My buddy in college thought people should be totally shaved except for head and eyebrows.

I'll do the pits and legs, but not "down there". I am NOT a ten-year-old girl. Gross.

Also, when did men get so into shaving the pubes? That, for me, is a total turnoff. I'm not raiding the grade school, people. Ugh.

Do you think women who like guys with clean shaven faces are sick fucks into 10 yr old boys?

Hair is a protien based fiber, I find it amazing we have all these product to save men from balding, but not one designed to kill hair

There are plenty of products that will kill hair dead dead dead. The problem is that they will also kill skin dead dead dead. Which is unfortunate if you prefer to cover your skeleton with something non-skeletal...

For those afflicted by ingrown hairs/razor burn: Try benzoyl peroxide after shaving, 10% solution.

I'm aware of that marion, but the keratin that forms the basis for our skin differs fron the keratin that from out hair, and both are different from the keratin that forms our nails,

Seems to me with all the advances in bio chemistry someone would have tried for a chemical that dissolves the bones in just one type of keratin as opposed to ALL types.

hairy hairy hairy all the way. A lot of girls at Atkhairy are awesome - roxanne, alexia, etc etc. The natural look is the best

luj, there are all kinds of products that inhibit hair regrowth and some that outright dissolve hair (like Nair). None of them are perfect, though.

You can also get laser hair removal, which supposedly lasts forever. This is getting more and more popular for underarm hair and for women with facial hair.

Hairy legs on a woman look awful to me. Hairy anything does. My husband agrees but feels less strongly about it. He compliments me on legs that are "alopecia smooth." If I were single, though, I would shave only when I was wearing skirts or going on a date, because it really is a pain in the ass to do it in the shower every other day.

Once I did a play at the Eugene O'Neill with a British actress who had unshaven underarms and wore a sleeveless nightgown on stage, and members of the American audience couldn't focus on anything else. It was hot in the theater, and you could see drops of sweat hanging off her armpit hair. No one commented on the play, just about how gross and distracting it was, why didn't the director say something, etc.

If I had a female employee who wore sleeveless tops and didn't shave, I would find myself in a very uncomfortable position (like I was with a female employee who refused to wear a bra). I wouldn't want her visiting clients like that.

"Do you think women who like guys with clean shaven faces are sick fucks into 10 yr old boys?" luj

why, because your face, and your crotch are the same thing? everyone has pubes once they mature, and they are indicative of maturity, not everyone has hair other places. Also, one is a private thing, the other, public. I think you can't compare them that way.

Thanks for the benzoyl peroxide tip, Marion. I use it on my face already. I'm a little wary of using it on super-sensitive, freshly shaved skin (it already makes my face burn slightly when I use it after exfoliating), but I may give it a try. The other issue with that stuff is bleaching. I never know which sheets / towels / clothes are going to be affected and which not, some things stay unbleached forever while others immediately get the dreaded white or orange streaks, regardless of their original color. Any luck in figuring this out?

Funny I've heard of Asians getting pube implants cuz they like a bush.

There are also pube wigs for your vagina.

http://i.imgur.com/g9EvpS0.png

Laser hair removal is not forever but it is for a very long time. I have pale skin and very dark hair, the ideal conditions for effective laser treatment. If you go that route, I recommend going to a facility with a doctor present, rather than solely aestheticians - or at least, be sure the aesthetician is willing to turn up the fire power (so to speak) beyond what you can do yourself at home with one of the devices now sold over-the-counter.

Anonymous, you might have success with salicylic acid - not the 2% stuff sold over the counter in the U.S. (I don't know where you're located) but a 10 or 20% solution. I buy a brand called LaraChem via mail order from Canada. A little goes a long way - my most recent 2 oz bottle has lasted I think 5 years.

...SwissArmyD - well said. Thank you.

Here's the rub SwissArmyD.

If a woman doesnt want to shave hats her choice, but accusing men pedophilia en masse because they dont like getting hair in their teeth is not about their personal choice, its about demonizing men and males sexuality.

And technically facial hair on men IS pubic hair, it is a sign of physical maturity in men.

So why wouldnt a woman preferring a "smooth" face be just a guilty of bullshit accusations of pedophilia?

Amy - true. I think Anonymous has dark hair. If she also has skin light enough to create the needed contrast, then laser might be effective for her. Otherwise, no go.

Luj, I've had sex with plenty of women over the past 20 years, enough to know that a decent trim and good personal hygiene go a long way. Anyone who needs a woman to have completely bald genitals to avoid getting hair stuck in teeth is not doing it right.