Christians, Muslims and Jews all believe in the same deity. "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God." And all three religions are Abrahamic.

(Meltdown coming from Christians in 3...2...1...)

The Great Pug Buddha is the source of all love and kindness in this world.

Pugs are his children, and we are here to serve the pugs.

Pug sneezes are the distilled essence of the love of the Great Pug Buddha. If you get a full-face blast of snot from your pug first thing in the morning, thou art blessed.

My pug, the sweet little old pug lady Holly, is the Most Highly Favored of the Great Pug Buddha, and therefore a high priestess.

Also, between pugs and Buddha, belly rubs are important, but I'm still working on that scripture.

Your pug may intercede on your behalf with the Great Pug Buddha, but only if so inclined, and the Great Pug Buddha will not listen directly to you - only your pug. Admittedly, getting your own pug to listen to you can sometimes be challenging, let alone getting them to forward messages.

But it never hurts to be kind to pugs.

When my sweety was looking for a new job, I donated money to a pug rescue and begged Holly to please please please ask the Great Pug Buddha to help him get the job, and it worked.

The Great Pug Buddha doesn't do any smiting. If you want smiting or revenge, you should probably look for another religion.

"we are the ONLY people who don't think our god is better than yours"

uh-huh. Then why is it that you try to convert people? While Amy generally doesn't, many atheists are as bad a vegans with their demand that people believe only their way... or as bad as fundamental religious zealots. odd, that.

I have no problem with the idea that people shouldn't do each other harm, and I fight often for the right to be left alone, from both the church, and from govt. atheists, and everyone else. :shrug:

As for Patrick's comment... only an idiot would melt down on the idea that all three religions are Abrahamic... tell 'em to go back to Sunday school if they deny...

However. That was a VERY long time ago, and all 3 religions have gone their separate ways. Even the Reformation was more than 500 years ago. So while there is a root there from way back when, the ideas and directions of the Muslims has branched off, and they seem to follow the idea now that an individual is not responsible for themselves, and has no agency, so if they do bad? Not their fault.

You guys should join my religion. We worship Ishtar so strip clubs, hookers, and purchases at sex shops are considered religious donations and are protected as a tax credit.

Christians, Muslims and Jews all believe in the same deity.

So they all go around, chopping off the heads of infidels, apostates, and each other when the opportunity presents itself. Or blowing them up, or shooting them repeatedly.

Unless gheys are around, in which case they bury the sword in the ghey, and high 5 each other until they realize it's time to pick up the sword again.

Which is why drive-by shootings in the US are always carried out by Hassidics...

That's okay, Amy!

When my boyfriend got his new job, I believe the Great Cat God helped, too! At least, that's what my Aunt Bev says.

If you make up a Chinese Crested God, I'm sure he (or she) and the Great Pug Buddha can be friends.

They are both Chinese!

I met a guy once whose business card read, "Bicycle Terrorist."

I ran into home a few years later and his business card now read, "Emperor of the Universe." I guess he got promoted.

The funny thing about atheists is that they're no different from theists.

Saying, "I believe there is no God" is as much an act of faith as saying "I believe God exists."

Many self-described atheists are actually just unbelievers, since they say, "I don't believe in God," a statement of non-belief.

Non-believing is not the same as believing. A lack of belief is precisely the opposite of belief.

When you cross over into "I believe that God doesn't exist," you're the same as the people who believe that God exists. Both positions are intellectually indefensible, since the existence or non-existence of God is unknowable.

Atheists tend to love talking about their atheism, and the military is considering atheist chaplains, and there are atheist organizations with tenets and meetings, so it's clear that evangelical atheism is essentially a religion.

But most self-described atheists aren't even atheists. They're simply unbelievers.

Sorry PJ im going to get dogmatic about the Gods.

Chinese crestededs are not Chinese. They are probbably Mexican-related to Xolos.

Xolos are pretty wild dogs of the Aztecs.

If pugs are Buddah their Islamic equivalent, is their brother-the Pekingese the God of Anger, Revenge, Jealousy, Possessiveness.

Oh and pugs are also the Gods of Gluttony!

Saying, "I believe there is no God" is as much an act of faith as saying "I believe God exists."

So then saying "I believe there is no 'Invisible, trans dimensional, purple, rhino sticking his dick in my ear" is an act of faith?

Look I'm not one of those people who hold the notion that being an atheist makes people rational - it doesnt. I know atheists who believe in ghosts, alien abduction, galactic alignment, astrology, astral projection, aura reading, tarot, kirlian photography, emotional vampirism, and Sting having a 47hr erection even though he finally admitted he was lying about it.

But making the blanket statement that not believing in god is an act of faith is stupid.

That means that your lack of faith in Thor is just as big a leap as you faith in your god.

It also means that you lack of faith in gods causing the tides, eclipses, floods, wind, rain, sickness, drought and so on and so forth is likewise an act of faith.

Any truly honest atheist will tell you there is no way to be 100% certain there is no such thing as a god.

We will say based on the attributes ascribed to all of the anthropomorphic deities worshiped by man we are 100% sure none of THEM exist.

That being said, until such time as repeatable, objectively verifiable proof of a deity is discovered absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Or let me put it to you this way. A man was transporting the Ark of the Covenant in his ass drawn wagon, it was a bumpy road so he put his hand out to steady it, but he was not of the tribe of Levi so god had him incinerated on the spot. Cut to a few thousand years later and his self proclaimed clergy are ass raping children and he cant even be bothered to the the pope to tell the child rapists to knock that shit off.

What kind of a god doesnt have the time for children raped by his clergy but does have the time to murder a kindly delivery driver for doing his job cause he was from the wrong family?

How does such a creature make any sense what so ever?

IRA:

Christians, Muslims and Jews all believe in the same deity

So they all go around, chopping off the heads of infidels, apostates, and each other when the opportunity presents itself. Or blowing them up, or shooting them repeatedly.

They do all believe in the same deity (infinite, omnipotent Creator of the universe and everything in it--how many of those can there be?). They just have differing opinions concerning what that deity expects of them.

"I believe there is no God" is as much an act of faith as saying "I believe God exists."

I'm with lujlp.

There is no faith required in saying "there is no God" because God can mean anything to anyone. There isn't even a fucking clear definition of what God is, each human makes his or her own personal story on this being.

Why would I need faith to "not believe" in a particular persons own internal monologue on a deity?

At the crux of it though I define God as something people worship and nature has shown itself indifferent to our awe.

This awe, and wonderment as to the meaning of life does not provide evidence of a God. It only affirms that perculiar human aspect of human nature--which is finding a spiritual purpose to our own existence when there truly is none that outside forces can provide.

Truly we want to find a greater (paternal/maternal) why as to why we exist and there is none.

Atheists are just as deity-obsessed as the rest of us. They just put their energy into denying, as opposed to worshipping.

When I see a nation-wide system of atheist-funded non-profit hospitals, I might be willing to listen to their "you don't need God to do good" shpiel. But until then, I'll go with the people that run 90+% of the hospitals, shelters, and soup kitchens in this country. In other words: Christians.

But making the blanket statement that not believing in god is an act of faith is stupid.

You're a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

I didn't say "not believing in God is an act of faith."

I said, "Believing that there is no God" is an act of faith.

Not believing in something is unbelief. Believing that something intangible doesn't exist is an act of faith because the existence or non-existence can't be proven.

If you don't believe in God, you're an unbeliever. If you believe that God doesn't exist, you're an atheist.

Atheism is an act of faith no different than theism.

Why would I need faith to "not believe" in a particular persons own internal monologue on a deity?

I didn't say that. Not believing is simply unbelief. Believing that _________ is an act of faith.

We're talking the difference between not believing and believing.

You need to define yourself. Do you not believe in God? If so, you're not an atheist. You're an unbeliever.

If you believe that there is no God, you're an atheist. An atheist states his or her belief that God does not exist. That's no different than stating your belief that God does exist.

Both are only beliefs. Acts of faith.

What kind of a god doesnt have the time for children raped by his clergy but does have the time to murder a kindly delivery driver for doing his job cause he was from the wrong family? How does such a creature make any sense what so ever?

Not being a Biblical literalist, I don't believe in the existence of the Ark of the Covenant. I can't address people being incinerated when they touched it.

The issue of why God doesn't stop human-committed atrocities or natural disasters is easy. We don't live in a safari park. We're not meant to be protected from all harm. If that were the case, we'd have no opportunity to grow. We'd be dumb ungulates, munching grass and crapping.

Both my parents were devout Catholics who died horribly of cancer this year. My father screamed and ran, and my mother thrashed and wept. It turned out that they had no faith after all.

I'm not religious, but a few years ago my liver failed and I turned lemon yellow. My urine was coffee colored. In the emergency room, they basically told me I was screwed. My liver had been destroyed, probably by hepatitis B. I accepted it.

The thought of all the millions of people who'd died before me gave me comfort. They were my brothers and sisters. Soon I'd join them. I was completely at peace.

For no discernible reason, the jaundice disappeared and my liver began functioning again. I had every test known to medicine, and they never found anything wrong with me.

God didn't intervene and save me. That's not God's job. If anyone did anything, it was my Taiwanese doctor, who I think is a shaman. He's sure ambiguous enough. He gripped my shoulder for a long time, and soon afterward I became pink again instead of yellow.

All my doctors said they've never seen spontaneous recovery from total hepatic failure, especially in only three hours. But I know it wasn't God.

Pain and disaster are part of life. God doesn't save you from them; he gives you the strength to endure them.

I present for your consideration the following human comedy:

Theist: "There is a God."

Atheist: "There is no evidence of God's existence. Therefore, there is no God."

Theist: "Can you prove God doesn't exist?"

Atheist: "You can't prove a negative."

Theist: "So, you admit that your belief isn't provable either."

Agnostic: "Neither of your beliefs stands up to scrutiny. The only tenable position ia agnosticism."

Theist and atheist, in unison: "Agosnticism is for people who can't make a damn decision!"

Some days it just doesn't pay for a philosopher to get out of bed.

You know had the majority of people kept worshiping sex god and church consisted of several mind blowing orgasms as opposed to converting to the anti sex, anti fun, pro everything is evil and shameful god of Abram I doubt atheism wold even exist

Some days it just doesn't pay for a philosopher to get out of bed.

Philosophers get paid?

VROOMFONDEL: "That’s right. You’ll have a national philosopher’s strike on your hands."

DEEP THOUGHT: "Who will that inconvenience?"

I see no evidence for the existence of god, therefore I don't believe in god. For the same reason (lack of evidence), I don't believe in flying gorillas. If evidence for either comes to the fore, I'll believe.

So, because you've never seen evidence of something, it doesn't exist. By your logic those of us who've seen convincing evidence are completely rational in having our own beliefs. Therefore from this day forward, you're not allowed to call theists irrational, okay?

Atheist, dictionary definition: "a person who does not believe in the existence of God or gods."

Very sloppy dictionary you're consulting. Merriam-Webster has the correct definition:

"One who believes that there is no deity."

By your own definition, you're not an atheist. You're an unbeliever. An unbelieving goddess.

This includes people like me. Being an atheist is not "an act of faith," but it's always cute when religious people who believe in god, sans evidence, go "Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah," you do this irrational thing, too! We don't.

Since I'm not religious, I'm assuming you're directing your comment at others. And I also didn't say, "Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah" nor do I believe that atheism or theism are irrational.

Your unbelief is a rational act. Nobody's attacking you here, so no need to resort to condescension. My posts aren't "cute." They're as well thought out as anything you write.

It would be, perhaps, comforting to believe that there's some Great Pumpkin who cares about us but it sure doesn't seem to be the case.

Don't speak for me, please. Just because your experiences are different than mine doesn't mean that your experiences are the norm.

Unbelievers and atheists have a knee-jerk reaction of belittling theists. My own experience is that you do so out of fear, denying the fact that you're going to die. I watched the same dynamic in my dying father, who rejected his lifelong Catholicism at the last moment out of fear.

Most people make fun of what scares them. This insistence on using terms like Flying Spaghetti Monster and Great Pumpkin reveals a lot of fear.

There's absolutely nothing to fear, as I had to tell Dad as he lay in his coma.

It takes a certain mindset to be open to the endless signs that there's more than just this planet and its everyday concerns. All it takes are the powers of observation and analysis. It also requires that you don't give the tiniest shit about how your peers view you.

As long as you view theism as a belief in the Great Pumpkin, you'll never get there. Ultimately, that doesn't matter. There's no punishment for unbelief or atheism. The system works whether you believe in it or not.

Great things await you. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

So, because you've never seen evidence of something, it doesn't exist.

No, but its reason enough to live your life as though it doesnt

By your logic those of us who've seen convincing evidence are completely rational in having our own beliefs.

Is such evidence independently verifiable and repeatable by many people?

Unbelievers and atheists have a knee-jerk reaction of belittling theists.

True, constantly being told we are going to hell and that you have a magical friendship with an all powerful being kinda breeds contempt after a while

So, because you've never seen evidence of something, it doesn't exist. No, but its reason enough to live your life as though it doesnt

Not for me. I've never once in my entire life thought, "Because I haven't experienced something, it doesn't exist.

By your logic those of us who've seen convincing evidence are completely rational in having our own beliefs. Is such evidence independently verifiable and repeatable by many people?

Of course not. For one thing these experiences are entirely personal and by their very nature are tailored to the individual.

The function of God isn't to put up a huge neon sign in the sky, saying, "I EXIST." That gets us back into the realm of the safari park.

God isn't a parent, there to protect you from all harm and reassure you that nothing bad will never happen. Tragedy and pain are random. What God does is help you endure terrible experiences.

The purpose of life is to learn. If you're cosseted, insulated with bubble wrap, and rocked to sleep every night, you remain a baby.

Also, free will is paramount. God can't intervene or announce his presence in a dramatic, show-biz way because that interferes with free will.

The very act of observing subatomic particles changes their behavior. If we all knew without a doubt that God existed, it would change our behavior in ways we can't even comprehend. We would no longer make decisions based entirely on free will.

[C]onstantly being told we are going to hell and that you have a magical friendship with an all powerful being kinda breeds contempt after a while

That's an incredibly superficial, reductionist take on theism. There's a lot of confusion here about the terms I'm using. I'm not religious. I'm a theist.

I have no more of a "magical relationship" with an all-powerful being than you do. I have no access to special knowledge.

And there is no "hell" in the sense of it being a place where unbelievers, atheists, and sinners are sent as punishment.

The work of the Dutch cardiologist Pim van Lommel--who's researched near-death experiences for thirty years--corresponds with my own ideas.

There is a state called hell, but you put yourself into it by being a creature of rage, hate, negativity, and evil. It's a state of absence. By your own mindset, you blind yourself to the way forward. You're not sent there; you choose to be there. And you can come out. It isn't permanent.

After my father died on February 23, 2013, we were subjected to months of what can only be described as tantrums. I know exactly what happened to Dad: He died and discovered that it didn't kill him, and then when he was required to review the sort of life he'd had, he freaked.

You can't go forward until you've addressed the mess you left behind, but I believe that the review process is voluntary. Over a period of several months, we had all sorts of penny-ante mayhem as Dad tried to complete the review process and kept getting up and running.

He was a runner his whole life, so it makes sense that he'd still be a runner after his death. But since you can't go forward, the only place you can go is back, so he came back here and knocked things over, left fat fingerprints in the dust from his mechanic's hands, spoke, typed, and generally was a pain in the ass while we were seeing Mom thorough her death.

After Mom died, the tantrums stopped, so I think she was able to talk some sense into him.

My father was not a good man. But I'm confident he isn't roasting in hellfire. His greatest fear was going to hell, because his parents and aunties inhumanely pounded that message into his skull.

I'm not one of those people who views atheism as a moral issue. It's devoid of moral content.

What I'd like is for atheists to stop thinking of theists as idiots. I've studied this issue for thirty years. I know more about atheism than everyone on this blog.

I don't think you're immoral, so it would be nice if you didn't keep calling me a child who believes in the Great Pumpkin. Civility is always appreciated.

Not for me. I've never once in my entire life thought, "Because I haven't experienced something, it doesn't exist.

So then you believe my cock is 12 ft long and can strangle polar bears thru the wormhole to the article circle created by my cum?

After all you have never experienced and therefore have no reason to disbelieve, right?

Thomas, you strike me, based on your comments, as a deist, as opposed to a theist. A theist believes in a personal anthropomorphic god who regularly interfere with life on earth and grants boon to their followers, such as the ones described in the Torah, Bible, Koran, Vedas, ect.

But your description of the kind of god you believe in marks you a deist, not a theist.

Now While I dont see deism as rational, I think it is far more REASONABLE than theism and agnosticism .

"The funny thing about atheists is that they're no different from theists."

And the absolutely hilarious thing about theists is they are all eager to tell me what I believe.

Most have absolutely no idea what has been discovered in the course of human investigation.

You yourself, Thomas, may be eager to label me in some fashion. I merely require that if you make a claim, you show your work.

"If pugs are Buddah their Islamic equivalent, is their brother-the Pekingese the God of Anger, Revenge, Jealousy, Possessiveness.

Oh and pugs are also the Gods of Gluttony!"

Let's also add Sloth to the list! Ppen, thou art a great prophet.

I will cap this thread off by saying that someday, probably not in my lifetime but someday, it will be possible to scientifically investigate whether or not such a creature as God exists. Many things that we now have scientific theories for, such as the structure of the solar system, were once in the realm of theology. That happened because the science of the day lacked the tools to investigate it. But eventually the essential three tools (the telescope, calculus, and accurate timepieces) were invented, and then science had the tools, and at that point theology had to give way.

If such an entity as a deity exists, what form will he/she/it take? My guess is that the anthromorphic concept is so wrong that it couldn't possibly be any wronger. But that's for the future. I wish I could live long enough to find out.

Theist and atheist, in unison: "Agosnticism is for people who can't make a damn decision!"

Some days it just doesn't pay for a philosopher to get out of bed.
Posted by: Cousin Dave at December 12, 2013 6:37 AM

I prefer to think of it as withholding judgment, until I have more evidence, one way or the other... :-).

Doing that on global warming could have saved a lot of academic embarrassment, if politicians had any sense of shame, that is.

Where'd Tom go? I quite liked the guy and was enjoying our conversation