Maybe It's Not All About You And How You're A Woman
Boohoo-itorial in the Express-Tribune by a woman named Sanam Malik about how women are treated like they cannot be "independent" -- which she concludes is the reason the porters at the Lahore airport were miffed that she refused their offers to carry her luggage for pay.
My tweet:
@amyalkon
@tribuneblogs @TarekFatah @SanouDoll Um, maybe what it's really about is that the porters have children to feed.
And then from the comments:
Oh please, those porters hound everyone not just women. I was with my family at the airport and the porters where constantly persisting my father to let them carry our bags. Can't believe a blog has been made on such a non issue.
Another:
Salman
Sorry to bust your bubble but this has nothing to do with you being a woman
Another:
Saad
Grow a brain lady. Pakistani labourers are persistent but they're only trying to earn a decent day's wage. They are equally as persistent with men. Don't make a feminist drama out of it. You emerged from the international Arrivals lounge and the porters are smart enough to assume that 1) You're loaded and probably generous and 2) that you have little or no idea of the prices in Pakistan so they'd get a more than decent tip for their effort. I am sad I read through so much nonsense.
At least pakistan is not swayed by the feminist crap that the rest of the world is swayed by(or forced to sway by). At least in that regard, muslims treat women as equals and not like other religions/cultures/countries where they are always shielded from every damn thing on earth while they keep making their shitty claims of equality while wanting special privileges
Redrajesh at January 16, 2014 1:12 AM
> that regard, muslims treat women as equals
> and not like other religions/cultures/countries
Yeah?
Tell us more.
Proper blog post, Amy Alkon.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at January 16, 2014 2:14 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2014/01/16/maybe_its_not_a.html#comment-4203067">comment from Crid [CridComment at Gmail]I think he means that life is equally horrible and backward for them. Under Islam, a woman has half the rights of a man and is basically property.
Here's a link with the verses from the Quran, etc.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/010-women-worth-less.htm
A few quotes from the notes below that:
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2014 3:20 AM
The writer is a hick. If she's been out of Canada more than once in her life, I'd be surprised.
KateC at January 16, 2014 6:48 AM
On the flip side, this reminds me of something I found at a well-known MRA site in August, regarding a radio interview with conservative antifeminist Suzanne Venker:
(female poster) OneHundredPercentCotton
"I haven’t read (Venker's) work either, but I know 'traditionalist' women. They hate feminism because…who’s gonna carry my bags through the airport…ME? Bah!
"A woman was holding up the plane I was on recently, doing a half-hearted 'struggle' to get her bag in the over head compartment.
"Finally she disgustedly dumped the bag in the aisle and glared at the men seated around her, obviously angry one hadn’t already jumped up and stuffed her over sized and far too heavy bag in the overhead bin for her.
"Before any man could be guilted into making the move to accommodate her, a female flight attendant watching her antics strode over and in no uncertain terms told the woman to either get that bag in the bin or get off the plane.
"Amazingly, the woman found the strength to get that bag in the bin – in short order.
"...just every once in a while I have to concede Feminism IS good for something...."
*
De2nis in reply to OneHundredPercentCotton
"You do know plenty of feminists still insist men should pay for the date, right? Maybe you were witnessing a hypocritical feminist, not a traditionalist."
lenona at January 16, 2014 7:43 AM
She goes to Pakistan and the indignity against women that has her up in arms is porters aggressively offering to carry her bags?
What a goober.
Elle at January 16, 2014 7:59 AM
Your tweet, Amy, hits the spot - the porter's are trying to make a living. The small change that she would have paid them would have gone a long way to helping them to feed their families that day.
For the record, I'm a guy, and porters like that annoy me and would get miffed if I carried my own luggage in Asia - maybe I should have said they refused to see me as anything but a helpless Westerner?
Truth be told - sometimes, I WAS the helpless Westerner in Asia. And the small amount of change that I paid (more than 3 times what a local would have paid for sure) was well worth it. First, I didn't have to drag my luggage through the tropical heat, and, second, sometimes those airports (and even more so the train stations) were a giant maze. The porters, either by looking at my tickets or asking me, knew exactly where I wanted to go; all I had to do was follow. One time, I was literally running after the guy to keep up. But, I also knew that he wanted to get me to my train car, get his tip, and then rush back to pick up another fare. I really didn't blame him for that - a little hustle didn't hurt me. For the most part, these guys well earned the tips I gave them. (even though it was way above what a local would have paid)
And, if she thinks the porters at the airports are annoying; she should be a white guy just trying to walk down the street in most Asian cities - taxis stop and try to pick you up! The stereotype is that Westerners take taxis everywhere and don't take the bus. I've missed many a bus because while standing at the bus stop as a taxi pulls up, both the cabbie and the bus driver assumed that I, being a Westerner, would prefer the cab. Annoying as all get out; but, I didn't cry sexism or racism.
Seriously, some folks have such a self-centered view of the world; and this woman is one of them.
Charles at January 16, 2014 8:20 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2014/01/16/maybe_its_not_a.html#comment-4203437">comment from CharlesThere's much to be said for paying people when you can easily afford it so they can do honest work and feed their kids. And why drag your luggage in the heat (or do any tedious work that keeps you from what you enjoy) if you can pay someone else to do it or somehow automate the tedium out of your life. You aren't a better person because you fold your own laundry.
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2014 8:48 AM
"You do know plenty of feminists still insist men should pay for the date, right? Maybe you were witnessing a hypocritical feminist, not a traditionalist."
Posted by: lenona at January 16, 2014 7:43 AM
Maybe s/he was witnessing a wise and pragmatic feminist who wanted a second date.
Michelle at January 16, 2014 10:07 AM
Maybe the porters were soliciting her to carry her bags because that's what porters do, they carry bags.
Was the flight attendant also demeaning her womanhood by bringing her a drink instead of pointing to the galley in the back of the plane and warning her that the fridge door sometimes sticks?
Conan the Grammarian at January 16, 2014 10:40 AM
Maybe women are assumed to not be capable of independence because so many of them, when desiring to confront a boorish male, will have some other people do their wet work for them instead. See sexual harassment complaints, etc.
mpetrie98 at January 16, 2014 12:07 PM
I realized my thinking is American-centered. Maybe women in Pokeeston would naturally have stiffer spines, were it not for the usual Islamist dreck.
But I'm pretty sure the porter wasn't deliberately discriminating against the Sisterhood by offering to carry her bags, anyhow.
mpetrie98 at January 16, 2014 12:11 PM
"muslims treat women as equals"
Exceptionally poor trolling today.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at January 16, 2014 12:47 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2014/01/16/maybe_its_not_a.html#comment-4203788">comment from Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers"Muslims treat women as equals"
Equal to their goats. (The link gives the example of camels. Please forgive the creative license.)
Amy Alkon at January 16, 2014 12:58 PM
That title ("Maybe It's Not All About You And How You're A Woman") is great, it just succinctly sums up what I couldn't quite articulate that is annoying about comments like that.
@Sanam Malik: Those porters badger everyone, it's because they're poor and desperate for a little bit of cash to feed their families, and you were called a "snob" because you're too self-absorbed and selfish and wrapped up in your own 'first world problems' and victim mentality to think about any other human being for long enough to realize that what would be a tiny tip from you could go a really long way for some of those people (e.g. be the difference between whether their kids eat or not that week).
According to Wikipedia: "60.3% of Pakistan's population lives on under $2 a day". Wow, just wow ... she really needs to grow up. Sanam Malik is a "graduate from the University of Toronto".
Lobster at January 16, 2014 1:00 PM
Feminism has lost the plot.
Lobster at January 16, 2014 1:11 PM
A lot of people feel they are exploiting people by asking them to do things like that when going to third world countries.
Don't.
Beggars are the ones being exploited in horrible ways.
If you see people working than good, even kids.
If you see people with disabilities do not give them money (in third world countries). Sometimes gangs make them disabled because they know they'll get more money outta you.
I've seen women drug babies so they'll sleep all day and get more money from you.
Ppen at January 16, 2014 1:17 PM
1) Who punishes both the woman and the man for crimes(subject to both being weak and not politically powerful of course): Muslims
2) Who will slap or punch(basically use force on) both unruly men as well as women to discipline them and get them to tow the line: Muslims
3) Who sentences both the man and the woman to death for adultery: Muslims
4) Who expects both the woman and the man to prove that they were sexually harrased or exploited before taking any action against the exploiter: Muslims
5) Who expects both men and women to blow themselves up and die for the religion: Muslims
6) Who will not think twice about telling both a man and a woman to shut up in order to stop creating a nuisance: Muslims
7) Who will not think twice about hurling expletives at both men and women: Muslims
8) Who will not think twice about cutting off the hands of both men and women who are convicted of stealing: Muslims
Definitely the above prove that muslims treat their men and women equal in the regard of exposing them to the bad things of life.
Compare that to the west: Men will get punched, slapped, hurled with expletives and when the same happens to women who do the same nonsense which will provoke such reactions, they will get their panties all wet and whine about how chivalry has disappeared and where all the good men have gone....and the stupid western sharia media will be on the case for days till some man is scapegoated.
Women who file a rape or dv in muslim countries will have to prove it before they can get anything done to the guy who did it. And the guys also have to to prove their charges against the women. Not like the west where the women do not have to prove anything while the guys actually have to prove it and the guys get screwed while women get pampered(a la crystal gail mangum).
Compare the ratio of female to male death sentences(or people with cut hands/eyes gouged out) in the muslim world and the western world and you will see that the ratio is more equal there compared to the west.
How fair things are in the muslim world and how well it is done is a different matter altogether, but the fact is if both guy and girl are equally politically weak, both are screwed in the muslim world. Compare that to the west where no matter what happens, it is always the guy who is screwed and the woman gets away scot free with anything. If this woman getting away with everything is equality, then the english language needs a major update.
So, any questions?
redrajesh at January 17, 2014 1:45 AM
First off sex is a universal thing that humans do along with most of the vertebrate animals. Killing a person for having sex is wrong. Period. End of sentence.
Second the standards for proving rape or DV are different between a Muslim man and woman.
From Religion of Peace:
So, any questions?
Yes. How fucked up is your mind that you think this let alone the rest is a good thing or the right way to run a culture, let alone a civil society?
Jim P. at January 17, 2014 6:36 AM
Jim, redrajesh posts on here every so often, but the vitriol he spews has me wondering where and how he "grew up". He seems to be very immature to me, and a misogynist, as well.
A troll, in other words.
Flynne at January 17, 2014 8:29 AM
A troll, in other words. -- Flynne at January 17, 2014 8:29 AM
Oh, I know. I just couldn't let the BS stand without some sort of common sense response.
Jim P. at January 17, 2014 8:47 AM
The man and woman may be sentenced equally to stoning, but they are far from equal. They are buried in a way that covers up their private parts. If they are able to escape before dying, they're allowed to go free. The man is buried up to his waist, the woman up to her arm pits. Guess who escapes more often.
That's what you call equality?
Conan the Grammarian at January 17, 2014 8:58 AM
☑ Jim P.
(also, ☑ Conan.)
Flynne at January 17, 2014 9:05 AM
@"Not like the west where the women do not have to prove anything while the guys actually have to prove it and the guys get screwed while women get pampered"
Related, some interesting bits of info here: http://www.billoblog.com/?p=134
'False Rape Accusations Are Not Rare'
Lobster at January 17, 2014 10:55 AM
But having four males attest that a woman was raped is somewhat different level of proof and than the usual method of jurisprudence in most of the western world.
Jim P. at January 17, 2014 7:55 PM
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