The Non-Infantilized Version Of A Female Geek
Her attitude reminds me of that of a female friend of mine -- a woman who's a tenured professor of engineering. She's all about putting out good science and expects to be judged on her merits -- and judges others accordingly.
She lives far away but when we're together, we get together and look like we were kidnapped from different walks of life and held hostage in the same coffee shop. I wear evening dress skirts -- everywhere -- and she wears a hoodie with her college's name on it. Her goal in getting dressed? Looking like she's not naked.
Susan Sons, who started coding when she was 6, on the machine her dad used to track inventory, writes at Linux Journal:
I've never had a problem with old-school hackers. These guys treat me like one of them, rather than "the woman in the group", and many are old enough to remember when they worked on teams that were about one third women, and no one thought that strange. Of course, the key word here is "old" (sorry guys). Most of the programmers I like are closer to my father's age than mine.The new breed of open-source programmer isn't like the old. They've changed the rules in ways that have put a spotlight on my sex for the first time in my 18 years in this community.
When we call a man a "technologist", we mean he's a programmer, system administrator, electrical engineer or something like that. The same used to be true when we called a woman a "technologist". However, according to the new breed, a female technologist might also be a graphic designer or someone who tweets for a living. Now, I'm glad that there are social media people out there--it means I can ignore that end of things--but putting them next to programmers makes being a "woman in tech" feel a lot like the Programmer Special Olympics.
It used to be that I was comfortable standing side by side with men, and no one cared how I looked. Now I find myself having to waste time talking about my gender rather than my technology...otherwise, there are lectures:
•The "you didn't have a woman on the panel" lecture. I'm on the panel, but I'm told I don't count because of the way I dress: t-shirt, jeans, boots, no make-up.•The "you desexualize yourself to fit in; you're oppressed!" lecture. I'm told that deep in my female heart I must really love make-up and fashion. It's not that I'm a geek who doesn't much care how she looks.
•The "you aren't representing women; you'd be a better role model for girls if you looked the part" lecture. Funny, the rest of the world seems very busy telling girls to look fashionable (just pick up a magazine or walk down the girls' toy aisle). I don't think someone as bad at fashion as I am should worry about it.
With one exception, I've heard these lectures only from women, and women who can't code at that. Sometimes I want to shout "you're not a programmer, what are you doing here?!"
I've also come to realize that I have an advantage that female newcomers don't: I was here before the sexism moral panic started. When a dozen guys decide to drink and hack in someone's hotel room, I get invited. They've known me for years, so I'm safe. New women, regardless of competence, don't get invited unless I'm along. That's a sexual harassment accusation waiting to happen, and no one will risk having 12 men alone with a single woman and booze. So the new ladies get left out.
I've never been segregated into a "Women in X" group, away from the real action in a project. I've got enough clout to say no when I'm told I should be loyal and spend my time working on women's groups instead of technology. I'm not young or impressionable enough to listen to the likes of the Ada Initiative who'd have me passive-aggressively redcarding anyone who bothers me or feeling like every male is a threat, or that every social conflict I have is because of my sex.
Here's a news flash for you: except for the polymaths in the group, hackers are generally kind of socially inept. If someone of any gender does something that violates my boundaries, I assume it was a misunderstanding. I calmly and specifically explain what bothered me and how to avoid crossing that boundary, making it a point to let the person know that I am not upset with them, I just want to make sure they're aware so it doesn't happen again. This is what adults do, and it works. Adults don't look for ways to take offense, silently hand out "creeper cards" or expect anyone to read their minds. I'm not a child, I'm an adult, and I act like one.
Excellent, well-written article from Sons. A few quick thoughts: It supports my contention that there were more women in computer science in the 1980s than there are now. And, for the first time, I'm getting a clue as to why that is.
I recall my comp sci and math classes in college (early '80s) being about one-third women. From what I've observered of college classes today, the percentage is a lot less than that. I haven't spent enough time in the recent classes to have a handle on what's different. I can only tell you what it was like back when. Being that it was college undergrads, there was of course a certain amount of flirting that took place, and the men and women were both aware of the presence of the opposite sex. But no one made a thing of it generally. The women were a mixed group; some of them were very good, some of them not so much --- just like the men. (The not-so-good ones, both women and men, got weeded out as the courses progressed.) The fact that women were there was just not a thing. Everyone accepted it as normal.
BTW, speaking of polymaths: one of my college classmates was a young women majoring in theater, who took assembly language(!) as an elective, and passed it with flying colors. I was in a couple of study groups with her and she knew her stuff.
Cousin Dave at February 7, 2014 6:35 AM
BTW, speaking of polymaths: one of my college classmates was a young women majoring in theater, who took assembly language(!) as an elective, and passed it with flying colors. I was in a couple of study groups with her and she knew her stuff.
We had an art/French major work in our rocket lab. She built us a 6:1 scale model of the Hubble Space Telescope that is better than the one Goddard has. Anyway, she liked the work so much she went back and got a mechanical engineering degree and is now working for an aerospace company and doing great.
Astra at February 7, 2014 6:54 AM
"Desexualized" by not dressing like a corporate cougar on the prowl?
Her detractors certainly don't understand the male brain.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at February 7, 2014 8:56 AM
I have a female friend who is a programmer.
Yup she gets harassed by...........women...who aren't programmers for hanging out with the guys.
Huh?
It's not a female dominated field of course she's going to hang out with men, and have mostly male friends.
She's told me I'm such a relief because I don't think in those terms.
'"Desexualized" by not dressing like a corporate cougar on the prowl?"
I've noticed techie guys love that look (no makeup, dressed casually, jeans etc.) It's their ultimate fantasy.
I wear too much for them and I work with gay guys a lot so you know they encourage it.
Ppen at February 7, 2014 9:46 AM
One of the things I truly admire about my mother is not just that she became a flight instructor in a time when you barely found women flying airplanes, but how utterly oblivious she was to discrimination. If there was a wall she managed to find a way around it, over it, under it, or through it without ever realizing it was supposed to keep her out. She was a high-octane motorcycle driving woman who wasn't one of the guys, just one of the people hanging out at the FBO. That she was the only one without a penis never even occurred to her.
She also tried to join the black student union in college because that's where a lot of her friends were hanging out. I've never known anyone else who almost literally did not see race.
Elle at February 7, 2014 10:28 AM
Amy, this lady is one of your friends right? Sounds like she and I are cut from similar cloth. I am from the jeans-and-a-tee-maybe-a-hoodie crowd and I think my husband owns more shoes than me. But, you know I'm a statistician with a biology background. Even here in the 'burbs of DC where lots of the contractors live (read: programers, engineers, lawyers, etc) it's hard to find women who relate on a brain-to-brain basis.
I remember in middle school being bussed to a one-day program for girls. It was all about how we would probably have to have a job and not rely on men to support us - and we could go into science too if we wanted. Until that point, it had not occurred to me otherwise. This would have been around 1994 or so.
Shannon M. Howell at February 7, 2014 11:29 AM
I calmly and specifically explain what bothered me and how to avoid crossing that boundary, making it a point to let the person know that I am not upset with them, I just want to make sure they're aware so it doesn't happen again.
This. In spades. I may have to walk around the block to calm down so I don't yell, but I try to do this. I don't need an apology, just an acknowledgment of the boundary. Sadly, I'm not always successful with this, and my temper gets the better of me.
I bet she can talk perl to me. Hubba-hubba. ;-)
I R A Darth Aggie at February 7, 2014 12:53 PM
I've noticed techie guys love that look (no makeup, dressed casually, jeans etc.) It's their ultimate fantasy.
I dunno about that, but I do prefer that look. Casual, natural, I don't have to worry about ingesting caked on makeup if things go well...and yes, I am a techno-mage.
I R A Darth Aggie at February 7, 2014 12:57 PM
And, this is why I prefer working with men. I work as an accountant in a fire department, and the women we do get in there are not hung up on this "how to be a girl" attitude and no one, and I mean NO ONE, treats anyone differently based on gender (of course, I will say, my department has a very good culture). Those "women in X" groups are just a "no boys allowed" club so those women can make up ways they are discriminated against and find a way to garner special treatment and be offended. My ex had a bunch of them at his tech job, and it was all about sharing how to get extended pregnancy leave, how to get a special room to breastfeed, and how to game the system so you could work less and get more.
Daghain at February 7, 2014 5:43 PM
Sometimes I want to shout "you're not a programmer, what are you doing here?!"
That seems to be a requirement for these advocates.
Amy if you want to do an interesting interview on this subject, you should talk to Dave Winer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Winer
He'd recently found himself at the receiving end of a mobbing by the social justice warriors for making the overture to investigate how programming and other IT fields can become more attractive to women. His sin was to suggest that the evolved cognitive styles of men and women may make the practice of programming more interesting to men.
http://scripting.com/2013/08/19/whyArentThereMoreWomenProgrammers
Whether you agree with him or not, check out the response he'd received - vitriolic, dishonest and largely ad hominem.
In line w/ Susan's remarks, the behavior of these people causes you to wonder if they're really interested in solutions or if they're just looking to establish another front in the gender war.
norm at February 7, 2014 7:01 PM
Gawd yes - she hit's it on the head. Just like affirmative action has done irreparable damage to blacks, so feminism has done irreparable damage to women.
I'm a techie. I'm in the generation she refers to as "old schoold". Twenty years ago, when I worked with women I thought nothing of it. I never saw any discrimination. What I did see occasionally were groups of guys who were happy to have women around, and - being socially inept - occasionally managed to say or do something stupid. Which was immediately embarrassing and regretted, and life went on.
Today, every action and every statement must to be weighed for potential sexism. This means that, whenever possible, I *avoid* working with women. It's too dangerous, because saying or doing something socially inept is now cause for a lawsuit. (see Adria Richards and dongle jokes). Small teams are a problem, because you never want to be alone with a woman you don't know well; "he says, she says", even if she doesn't win, the guy will lose.
Moreover, expanding the definition of technical fields to include non-technical skills (Adria Richards is again a prime example) - just so more women are included - this is an insult to the women who really are capable. Nowadays, if you get a woman on your team, you have to carefully find out whether she is really competent, or whether she is just a showpiece that you're stuck with.
Of course, the worse the problems get, the more the feminists turn up the heat.
a_random_guy at February 8, 2014 1:14 AM
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