The New Sexual Double Standard: When Alcohol Is Involved, Men Are Rapists And Women Are Rape Victims
It sounds like a cartoon of a standard, but it's one many are taking seriously on campuses: If a man has a beer and has sex, he is a rapist. If a woman has a beer and has sex, she is a rape victim.
Margaret Wente writes in The Globe And Mail:
So here's the $10 question. Can a woman consent to sex when she's been drinking? Universities have decided that the answer is no. "We heard that students don't understand that it is illegal to have sex with someone who is drunk because they can't give consent," says the Saint Mary's task force report. Although that sentence is crafted to be gender-neutral, its warning is directed at men. It means that drunken sex is tantamount to rape.Is there a double standard here? Indeed there is. Men are treated as potential rapists, and women as their helpless victims (or, in current parlance, "survivors"). If two young people get hammered and have drunken sex, he is responsible for his behaviour, but she's not responsible for hers. And even if she does say "yes," it's up to him to figure out whether she means it.
As Wayne MacKay, the law professor who wrote the Saint Mary's report, told Maclean's: "Clearly the focus needs to be on the fact that men need to have a better understanding and stop raping."
Let's be clear about a few things. Obviously, someone who is passed out or barely conscious cannot consent to sex. Men, who have physical size and strength on their side, have an extra duty to rein in their disinhibitions whether they are under the influence or not. And some men really are predators who deliberately target women. But the truth is that a great deal of alcoholic sex basically involves "stuff I wouldn't have done if I was sober."
via @walterolson
My three rules for men in college today:
1. Keep your mouth shut.
2. Agree with whatever the professor says.
3. Have your fun off-campus, with women who aren't students.
Cousin Dave at March 4, 2014 7:27 AM
Duke Lacrosse tried #3 and still got in trouble.
dee nile at March 4, 2014 7:50 AM
How about colleges adopt a rule more-or-less as follows: "Since dealing with the aftermath is such a royal pain in the ass, sexual relations among students is forbidden, on or off campus, on pain of expulsion."
Call it the "pants rule" or something.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at March 4, 2014 8:58 AM
Plus, as a down to earth older woman friend of mine likes to say: What about all those women who drink IN ORDER to be able to have sex?
Paleo Retiree at March 4, 2014 9:42 AM
None of this is anything new. It has been happening on campuses for at least the last 10-15 years. Mostly its been happening to low class proles like myself, "expendable" men, who didn't understand our place and didn't have the good sense to shut our mouths, keep our heads down and be grateful The Hive tolerated our presence.
It is now firmly entrenched on college campuses, given imprimatur at the highest levels with the "Dear Colleague" letter.
Its coming soon to a life near you. When it does, don't look to me for help. Not because I don't want to help you - I would be happy to. But when I was down, people just stood there grinning (with thanks to Bob Dylan). They said "he must have done something to deserve it," or "well, thats fucked up - but its for a greater purpose. Their intentions are good." And thanked God it wasn't them, and figured out quickly the right things to say to please The Hive, keep the women happy, and pretend the crocodile would never look at them with a hungry eye.
Check out MAD TV's "Sexual Harassment and You." They told you how it was long time ago. There is more truth in that than in every Womens Studies class ever taught. But most people just stood by and did nothing while the creepy little awkward dude was dragged away.
It will, I fear, be a long time before anyone will be able to do anything to reverse it. Now that people are, at long fucking last, beginning to speak up.
The WolfMan at March 4, 2014 9:55 AM
My Bad. It was SNL. here's the link.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/972440/
The WolfMan at March 4, 2014 10:00 AM
Dee has a good point. Guys, check out Internet classes. Or say screw it all, go to the library, and study for an electricians' license.
Cousin Dave at March 4, 2014 10:47 AM
Barbara Kay has the complementary companion article: (I am not sure if Amy has linked to this, but it's similar to other pieces that do the math on reported incidents and compare that to the 1:4 claims)
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/02/28/barbara-kay-rape-culture-and-the-delusions-of-the-feminist-mind/
Barbara Kay: Rape culture and the delusions of the feminist mind
NPR on the other hand doubles down by describing in the most vague terms research that claims:
If He's Sexually Aggressive In Bars, It's Not Because He's Drunk
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/03/03/285307535/mens-drinking-isnt-the-driver-of-sexual-aggression-in-bars
jerry at March 4, 2014 11:33 AM
Jerry--to be fair, the second half of that statistical comparison is also pretty unknown to the rest of the world. Two of the most common statistical medical myths are:
1. Everyone who smokes will get lung cancer, and everyone who gets lung cancer smoked.
2. Everyone fat will get diabetes, and everyone who has type 2 diabetes was fat.
Brian at March 4, 2014 12:42 PM
Okay, so it's been a few years. But when I was younger I had sex with women who were under the influence of alcohol who, probably, would not have had done so if sober. There was no violence or physical coercion at all.
Q: Under today's rules, am I a rapist? Was I a rapist then? Please help me get the confession right when they come to get me.
Bob T. at March 4, 2014 3:00 PM
"When Alcohol Is Involved, Men Are Rapists And Women Are Rape Victims"
Funny, I always thought candy was dandy; but, liquor was quicker.
Charles at March 4, 2014 4:08 PM
Bob T.,
Afraid so, brother. turns out I raped my wife on first date, all through our dating and even on our wedding night. That damn wine.
A question I had at one of our numerous, interminable "4 out of every 3 servicewomen are raped every 2.3 seconds and its all your fault you scumbags" in service briefings -
If one drink of alcohol renders sugar britches completely incapable of consenting to sexual activity, do we really need to be giving them security clearances?
The WolfMan at March 4, 2014 4:39 PM
Sorry about the typos. I'm working on something else and I need to slow down and think about one thing at a time.
The WolfMan at March 4, 2014 4:41 PM
It could get worse: University officials could decide that when two drunk students have sex they are both guilty of rape.
pst314 at March 4, 2014 7:03 PM
It could get worse: University officials could decide that when two drunk students have sex they are both guilty of rape.
Posted by: pst314 at March 4, 2014 7:03 PM
Might be a step in the right direction. More of these drunken encounters would go unreported.
Isab at March 4, 2014 7:37 PM
The rule: women have options. Men have obligations.
Art Deco at March 4, 2014 7:41 PM
Naive question here but if these drunk women are considering themselves to have been raped (just because they had sex they regret I assume?) why aren't they filing charges with the police? And why isn't the university insisting that they do so? And if they are not doing so and the university is simply kicking men off campus and out of class, why are the men all that upset? I'd be happy to be rid of such an academic s#itthole. Oh and one more question, when all you ladies crying wolf suddenly find yourselves complaining into a martini in your late 30's/early 40's alone, lonely and childless I guess you'll have no one else to fu## but yourselves. which will be fine with all us mouthbreathing knuckle-dragging brutes who have long since moved beyond you.
Steve D at March 4, 2014 7:54 PM
If two women get drunk, have sex and both regret it, are they both rape victims?
If its two men, are they both rapists?
If the man is drunk and the woman is sober did he rape himself?
Dark Eden at March 4, 2014 8:02 PM
If women are not capable of consent while drunk, then perhaps they should not be allowed to consume alcohol.
Abelard Lindsey at March 4, 2014 8:10 PM
To paraphrase Ken Wilber, it is absurd to contend that all men are rapists when in fact all men are actually horse thieves.
Victor Erimita at March 4, 2014 8:14 PM
Go ahead, continue to demonize men and tell us that we are rapists and fiends, possessing the savage nature and rapacious instincts of the wild beast, plus the cunning and lust of a fiend.
Keep it up. Make us your existential enemy. Just don't be surprised when we live up to that label. Don't be surprised when you find that there are no men interested in being your husbands. Don't be surprised that able bodied men stand by in silent indifference when you are in danger. Don't be surprised when men work to undermine you and keep you from your goals, just because you are female. Keep it up buttercup.
I'm also more than a little curious how it is that employees of a university now have the authority to create and interpret the statutes which deal with sexual assault. Isn't that the job of our legislatures and the courts?
Lee Reynolds at March 4, 2014 11:39 PM
Or, you know, what until you get married to have sex.
Oh wait, let me get that for you: "Bible-thumping NEANDERTHAL!"
:D
Steve B at March 5, 2014 12:08 AM
A standard I've seen suggested is when both parties are drunk, the penetrated person is the rapee and the penetrator is the rapist.
So if I get some guy drunk and bang his butt with a broom handle, I'd be the rapist even if I was drunk too, as he was in the receptive position.
NicoleK at March 5, 2014 4:02 AM
Nicole,
If two drunk women insert their fingers in each other, then regret it the next day are they both rapists?
KarlR at March 5, 2014 4:47 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2014/03/04/the_new_sexual.html#comment-4329718">comment from KarlRNicole, If two drunk women insert their fingers in each other, then regret it the next day are they both rapists?
Great question, KarlR.
Amy Alkon at March 5, 2014 5:23 AM
The Feminists and other Libturds are making the Islamist argument. Women are incapable. They can not be allowed out unless covered by a burkah. They cannot be allowed out unless under the control and responsibility of a male.
If you won't take responsibility for your own actions, then that is what you are saying.
Mannie at March 5, 2014 5:41 AM
"Or, you know, what until you get married to have sex."
Doesn't make any difference. As the courts have repeatedly reminded us, marriage is not an entitlement to sex, nor does it change the rape laws in any way. If a woman who has consumed any amount of alcohol is incapable of giving consent to sex, the fact that she's your wife doesn't change that.
Cousin Dave at March 5, 2014 7:08 AM
KarlR... yes, why not?
NicoleK at March 5, 2014 7:45 AM
Thinkprogress.org is making the same stupid statements
http://antifeministsite.blogspot.com/2014/03/thinkprogress-goads-false-rape-charges.html
Must be a new feminist campaign.
Joseph D at March 5, 2014 8:59 AM
>>If two drunk women insert their fingers in each other, then regret it the next day are they both rapists?
Good question. Are these women particularly attractive-looking? Are they wearing sexy clothes? I think I'd have to watch the footage very carefully to decide the truth here.
A bit more seriously, if penetration is a determinative criterion for rape, then its effectively impossible for a woman to rape a man with normal P-in-V sex. That's probably the point of THAT particular definition.
If simple exposure to alcohol (ie ANY amount) renders one unable to give consent, then I too am a serial rape victim. . .and it was absolutely WONDERFUL. . .er, I mean "horrible". . .I'm scarred for life, and I can't believe my girlfriend would repeatedly abuse me in that manner.
Looking closely at March 5, 2014 9:52 AM
I once had a girl tell me even the amount of alcohol absorbed by swishing a capful of mouthwash was enough to invalidate consent.
She wasnt pleased when my repeating back to her at parties cost her more than a few rolls in the hay.
lujlp at March 5, 2014 12:29 PM
"I once had a girl tell me even the amount of alcohol absorbed by swishing a capful of mouthwash was enough to invalidate consent."
No wonder she's so bitter today. She turned all the guys off with her bad breath.
AirAlan at March 5, 2014 1:58 PM
The study referred to on NPR - "If He's Sexually Aggressive In Bars, It's Not Because He's Drunk" - does anyone have access to it? I wonder what the method was for approximating levels of intoxication, and inferring intentions.
Michelle at March 5, 2014 2:02 PM
So a guy gets drunk and passes out. A bunch of girls dare one of them to pull his penis out and stick it in her mouth. Someone takes a picture. It gets around, and now the girl regrets what she did. The guy is guilty of rape, because he's the penetrator?
Why don't we just say that the person with breasts is the victim?
It's just the same old myth that sex is something men do to women because they do the penetration, rather than something that two people do together. You define guilt with the definition of the male behavior in the act of sex.
It's just the same old double standard, you're just trying to hide the sexism by redefining terms.
Buried Sexism at March 5, 2014 4:52 PM
I do not mess with american women period, as I consider them and the legal system here dangerous. I have been in situations where I was assaulted (verbally and physically) by middle aged women who were furious that I "wouldn't" have sex with them. If they claim, in vengeancee, that you assaulted them, then your life is ruined. I am lucky enough to traveled the world many times over and am now engaged to an Asian women who is educated, beautiful physically and even more beautiful inside (character wise, personality and morally). I will never look back. I have talked to many students in my university town and the men are fearful about living in a gynocentric country.
nodhannum at March 5, 2014 6:46 PM
Yep, this kind of stuff has been going around for at least 17 years - when I was a freshman, all the guys were required to attend a sexual assault awareness class. The instructors (a couple of perky juniors) got to the "alcohol equals unable to consent" part, but were stumped when some of us nerdier elements started asking very pedantic questions about specifics ("what if you're engaged?", "what if you've had sex 100 times and she is demanding it while drunk?", etc.) As I recall, they wound up telling us to use our best judgement, which isn't necessarily the wisest thing to tell a bunch of 18 year old boys.
Warren at March 6, 2014 5:56 PM
Remember when the left was selling "free love" and fun at our stodgy old conservative campuses? Well, it seems that our stodgy old conservative campuses were a lot more fun, and produced far more successful graduates.
forrest at December 9, 2014 8:06 PM
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