Stop And Flirt?
Or, perhaps, stop and butthurt.
A woman on a morning walk in Whitehouse, Texas got thrown down and arrested for not being willing to answer the questions of a motorcycle cop. Nina Harrelson writes on CBS19.TV:
She says the cop was acting suspicious and she felt threatened, but police officials say she handled it the wrong way.Melissa Bonnette says she was on her usual morning walk around 9:45 a.m. Friday when a man in uniform on a motorcycle pulled up next to her, asking if she lived in the area and if he could speak to her.
"I thought that maybe he was flirting," she said. "I just thought it was odd, I thought it was odd. I wasn't really sure but I felt uncomfortable because there wasn't anyone around."
She says she was worried he might not even a real cop, so she refused to stop and began jogging away from him.
"He just crept along beside me on his motorcycle and he started saying, 'Hey ma'am! I want to talk to you. Hey stop, ma'am! I want to talk to you.' Then my anxiety rose even higher," she said.
"The motorcycle has a patch on both sides of the gas tank. It's black and white and says 'Whitehouse Police,' and has red and blue lights on it," Whitehouse Police Chief Craig Shelton said. "So you have to take it for what it is. Do you think he's a Whitehouse police officer? Why would you think he's someone impersonating a police officer?"
That's when Bonnette says he got off his bike, chased her down, tackled her and threw her in handcuffs.
"I just was crying and I was saying 'Please sir, please sir. Why are you doing this?' It was like I was in a nightmare. I hadn't done anything wrong," she said.
"Normally if a police officer pulls up, in my opinion, it's awful odd for somebody just to take off and not want to speak to the police officer," Shelton said. "And he had a lawful reason to be there and to stop her."
That reason, Shelton says, is that Bonnette was walking on the wrong side of the road.
"By law, you have to be to the far left facing oncoming traffic," he said.
Okay, why not tell her that instead of asking her a bunch of questions? And why not tell her she was guilty of this maaaajor crime instead?
A commenter at the site, TSmith1953 writes:
Well I just watched the video too. Looked to me like the cop wanted to flirt and got his feelings hurt when she wasn't impressed / intimidated by him. It's a very small alleyway with no traffic other than the motorcycle. The wrong side of the road bit was just an excuse. In fact, the cop was riding his motorcycle on the wrong side of the road too, so you tell me which is worse?!
via ifeminists
Stupid question on to ask 'why might she think he wasn't a cop?" Well fuck people, lots of criminals have imitated cops, and lots of cops are criminals.
Its not like you can't get police uniforms and paint.
A strange guy stops you while you're alone in an ally and wants to talk...I'd want my daughter to bug out of there too.
Its as if cops are trying to make themselves the single most hated group in America.
Robert at April 15, 2014 2:23 AM
""Normally if a police officer pulls up, in my opinion, it's awful odd for somebody just to take off and not want to speak to the police officer," Shelton said. "And he had a lawful reason to be there and to stop her."
Chief Shelton needs to be reminded that what seems "awful odd" to him does not constitute the reasonable suspicion required to initiate a Terry stop. And the officer had no other lawful reason to stop the lady, based upon the video and the reporting. Nobody is required to answer the questions of a police officer, or indeed to pay them any attention at all, until the threshold requirements for an initial detention are met - to that point, the officer is just another person on the street. Texas does not have a 'stop-and-identify law, and in any case, such a requirement would only come into play when a person has been detained.
The only response to an unsolicited contact with a police officer should be
"Am I being detained, or am I free to go?"
Repeat as required.
Police officers and their superiors do themselves no favors when they come up with these laughable and trivial justifications after the fact - she was walking on the wrong side of the road. Oh, really? Show me the records of the last 5 people ticketed in Whitehouse, TX, for this offense? Everyone can see what a childish, petulant, invented and self-serving response this is, and yet they just don't seem to be able to help themselves from doing it. Somebody should give these clowns lessons in public relations and adult behavior, including the basic concept that when you've been caught behaving like a petty adolescent, more of the same seldom improves the situation.
llater,
llamas
llamas at April 15, 2014 4:01 AM
Years ago, I was pulled over by a cop. I couldn't figure our what I did wrong, but immediately pulled over and got out of my car. He spoke to my for about an hour asking inane questions and challenging my answers. I had the distinct impression that he was trying to catch me doing something shady not to arrest me, but so that we could exchange "favors." I felt totally intimidated. As the sun went down, I grew very frightened and began to shake. I never imagined this. I thought that I must have done something wrong and expected a ticket or a warning and to be off on my way in 5 minutes or so.
Many people told me that I was stupid to stop. I should have driven to the police station. He may not have even been a real officer.
There are always people second guessing.
PS. My officer's excuse was that they were investigating someone in the neighborhood who matched my description. Questions included, "What are you doing in this neighborhood? " I live here." Why are you driving down this street?" "This is the street that I live on." "Why are you driving at this time of night?" "I just got off work." Yes, boring but relentless.
Jen at April 15, 2014 4:39 AM
All ladies should share this w/their daughters, friend, et cetera. This woman perhaps saved her life (if not now certainly in the future) by paying attention to her natural instinct. Period.
There are procedures we and LEO are used to and when they are not followed women should be aware. A pull-over is flashing lights, siren blip, slow walk, and so on. Anything else is a predator playing w/his prey.
Bob in Texas at April 15, 2014 5:48 AM
Jen, I hope you (and everyone else reading of your unfortunate experience) can use the good advice of llama and the helpful scripting: "Am I being detained, or am I free to go?" Lather, rinse, repeat.
Hie thee to Flex Your Rights and get a couple of their helpful videos on keeping the cops' noses in the donut shops where they belong.
Grey Ghost at April 15, 2014 5:55 AM
if he could speak to her
The proper answer is to say "no, I have no desire to speak with you". If LEO insists, then you'll have to insist that your lawyer be present.
I R A Darth Aggie at April 15, 2014 6:17 AM
Due to recent supreme court ruling on the scope of your right to remain silemt, you should NEVER answer an questions without first requesting a lawyer
lujlp at April 15, 2014 6:30 AM
In the town next to mine a police officer was convicted of sexually assualting 3 women while on duty using the same approach. He'd stop them, not call the stop in, then badger them until he found some pretext for arresting them. Then he'd molest them. He liked to go after girls in their late teens to early twenties getting off of work at the local mall and chain restaurants.
Milo at April 15, 2014 8:52 AM
"The only response to an unsolicited contact with a police officer should be
'Am I being detained, or am I free to go?'
Repeat as required." - llamas
I've mentioned before here that there is just no right way to say this. I've recently realized another problem with this phrase when used in encounters with police.
If I am a police officer and I hear someone say this, I am not going to think to myself, "This person is exercising his Constitutional rights and I should respect that." Instead, what will go through my mind is, "This person has received training from a defense attorney about what to say when being pulled over. That means he's probably been busted before. If I'm able to keep him here by intimidation, I will eventually find something to charge him with."
People say that police do not have the right to treat them like criminals. From the police perspective in this situation, you ARE acting like a criminal and you deserve to be treated as such.
Fayd at April 15, 2014 9:50 AM
Chief Shelton's level of cognitive dissonance is alarming.
"Bonnette hasn't been charged with anything, but the entire incident was caught on dashcam video and Shelton says it will be investigated further. He also says Johnson acted appropriately and won't be reprimanded."
What even is this? Did he use air quotes when he said "investigate?"
Tim Cushing at April 15, 2014 10:16 AM
This person has received training from a defense attorney about what to say when being pulled over. That means he's probably been busted before.
I'm sorry, what? the one does not follow the other.
For instance, every single stinkin' defense lawyer I've talked to in the bar says the same thing: don't say nothin'. Have I been trained? damn skippy. Have I been busted before? hell no.
If a cop comes up and asks to speak to you, know this: s/he's on a fishing expedition. You're not obligated to engage them in conversation. Be polite and give them a "no, sorry, gotta go". If they insist, then you ask if you're being detained. If they start waffling, pull out your phone and tell them your calling your lawyer.
I R A Darth Aggie at April 15, 2014 12:32 PM
"Normally if a police officer pulls up, in my opinion, it's awful odd for somebody just to take off and not want to speak to the police officer,"
Personally, I find it more odd that someone would want to talk to a police officer. I realize that many are good people, but isn't that also an excuse that TSA "officers" use?
Not to mention, if a cop is talking to me in a professional capacity, I expect the interaction to be professional. "Ma'am, I need you to stop for a moment, it is illegal for you to be walking on this side of the road, and I will be ticketing you now," not, "Do you live around here?"
Jazzhands at April 15, 2014 12:46 PM
Jazzhands hit the nail on the head. The actions by the LEO were not done in a professional manner and the Cheif knew/knows it. He has a problem officer on his hands and is stuck. Can't admit it and can't hide it either (the dumbass TACKLED her).
Start showing up at the Council meetings and asking for the "investigation" report. Make it rain bad publicity for "walking down the DIRT road on the WRONG side" while being a WOMAN. HA HA HA! Ask how many MEN have been ticketed. Make it rain.
Bob in Texas at April 15, 2014 1:07 PM
It's good to know how to stand up for your rights. But criminals don't give a damn about your rights, especially when they're employed by the government.
Ken R at April 15, 2014 1:12 PM
If I am a police officer and I hear someone say this, I am not going to think to myself, "This person is exercising his Constitutional rights and I should respect that." Instead, what will go through my mind is, "This person has received training from a defense attorney about what to say when being pulled over. That means he's probably been busted before. If I'm able to keep him here by intimidation, I will eventually find something to charge him with."
People say that police do not have the right to treat them like criminals. From the police perspective in this situation, you ARE acting like a criminal and you deserve to be treated as such.
Posted by: Fayd at April 15, 2014 9:50 AM
There are a lot of situations where there are no good options. Regardless of how much suspicion you might bring on yourself by refusing to talk to a police officer, if you feel or act nervous while he is grilling you, you will generate the same level of interest.
I am sure these overreaches happened often before they started being publicized on the internet, But the average policeman is no rocket scientist, and you have to wonder how much of their playbook is lifted straight from the TSA.
When 90 percent of the general public refuses to talk to the police, and they get sued several times, the institutional procedures will change, but if people keep rewarding bullying behavior, there will be no reason for change.
This woman should sue, as should everyone who is bullied and arrested on a pretext.
Isab at April 15, 2014 2:16 PM
I fully appreciate that saying the stated formula
'Am I being detained, or am I free to go?'
is difficult and there may not be any 'good' way to say this to an officer. The fear that you have, that an officer will feel a heightened suspicion of somebody that refuses to talk or answer questions, has some validity.
But make no mistake - officers know that many people have this fear, and they play on it. Officers will use the natural reluctance that people have to offend an officer, and the natural wish to appear to be cooperative, to create an environment in which citizens feel they must answer questions. I know this is true - I was trained to do this. It works.
Officers are trained to counter this formula with aggressive questions - why don't you want to talk to me? What have you got to hide? Many people will fold under such tactics. Don't be fooled, and don't be intimidated. just repeat the question - am I being detained, or am I free to go?
The question is VITAL because it establishes your status in law, and it forces the officer to either detain you (for which he must have grounds that he can articulate) or let you go. As long as you do not ask the question, and get an answer, the officer can later claim tnhat your encounter was 'consensual' or 'voluntary'.
And make no mistake - if an officer stops you in the street, and his conversation concerns anything other than the weather or last night's game, he is actively looking for evidence of - something. He doesn't even have to know what. As in the instant case, it may not be clear just what his intentions are. The only thing that's sure is that you do not have to play along.
And, under those circumstances, while it may be difficult to do, the least-worst thing you can do is to ask the officer the question, and get a answer. There is nothing else you can say that will make anything any better. If the officer is of a mind to investigate you, he is going to do so - legally - no matter what you say. If you ask the question, you make the officer 'put up, or shut up' , and, more often than not, he will say - have a nice day' and you'll be on your way.
More will follow.
llater,
llamas
llamas at April 15, 2014 2:52 PM
"Do you live around here?"
What the fuck kind of question is that for anybody, let alone a police office, to be asking someone walking alongside the road?
In my "odd" opinion, if anyone asks that of a woman walking by herself she has ever right to yell, scream, kick, or do whatever to get the creep away from her. And that includes running away; cop or not.
I hope she hires a lawyer and sues the cop, his boss, and the town for all they are worth.
Charles at April 15, 2014 6:15 PM
I live in the St.Louis area, in one of the many small communities, with their own police departments. This happened twice to me : Two cops knock on my door and say they are investigating a stolen cell phone report, and that their equipment is indicating that the stolen phone is in my house. They want to search my house ! I refuse , and they both start trying to intimidate me, with all kinds of stupid tactics. I stood my ground, but they wasted almost an hour of my time, standing at my front door and talking to them . This happened twice, about a year apart. They eventually gave up , but not before some other cop cars pulled up and shined their spotlights in my house,making a big production out of this "investigation" . Unbelievable !!
Mike McDermott at April 16, 2014 9:47 AM
The way to put a stop to a lot of this nonsense would be to find some way to prevent trivial civil infractions from being used as the basis for a Terry stop, which officers can so very easily escalate - as we see here. Thing is, I don't know how to do that. Suggestions on a postcard, please.
Another approach could be the what I call the Pre-Miranda - officers should be compelled to say to people (in situations like this) 'you are not being detained, you do not have to speak with me, and you may leave at any time'. Officers should have the persuasive powers of uncertainty and the intimidating effects of their mere presence removed from their arsenal of tactics.
It will never happen, of course.
But universal audio and video recording of all police interactions, with an automatic presumption of release to the public within (x) days unless the police go to court and get an injunction, would help in reducing this sort of nonsense.
Regarding the police at your door. There's no law that says you have to open the door to the police. If in doubt - if you don't know why they are there - don't open the door. It is all-too-easy for officers to convert an open door into a situation in which they can plausibly state that they had either grounds, or permission, to enter and search. And officers have a thousand persuasive approaches, like the one described by Mike McDermott - 'our equipment is indicating', my a**. They have no such equipment. If they did, they would use the outputs to go get a warrant and then they wouldn't have to knock and ask your permission to come in and search.
The courts have typically applied much-stronger 4A protections to a person inside a home. So the recipe for an officer at your door, if you didn't call them and you don't know why they are there, is as follows:
'Do you have a warrant? If not, I can't let you in. I don't wish to speak with you. Have a good day.'
Ignore stories about 'required welfare checks' or 'suspicious persons' or 'our equipment is indicating . . . '. If they have grounds to enter your home without your permission - they will. Anything else they say to you is an attempt to persuade you to let them in voluntarily, or to create grounds for them to enter without your permission. And remember - the courts have held that they are allowed to tell you outrageous lies as they attempt to do this. Don't engage in the process.
llater,
llamas
llamas at April 16, 2014 11:57 AM
“Force always attracts men of low morality.” Albert Einstein
We are being abused by the worst kind of reprobates - the ones that wear a badge and wear a gun.
"I wonder what kind of corruption is in this guys closet - I heard a man say."
Anybody, who has a position of power and does what that officer did and speaks like that police chief does is highly likely to be corrupt to the core.
Law enforcement job is to know the "DIRT" on everybody- even each other. So they never break the code unless it is politically expedient and the perpetrating officer can be bought off, scared off or killed off.
Give him a desk job. Let the officer marinate in a atmosphere of payback if you don't go quietly. Or the officer starts letting his superiors know that he's going to bring as many people down as he can if he doesn't get his job back or is shown some money.
They are life's most miserable people. They are Selfie Heroes that make up their own importance and punish those that don't see them as such.
Good for you lady. I hope you find a lawyer that isn't afraid of what the cops have on him/her or their spouse or children or parents or in-laws or friends or co-workers or...... the list goes on and on. Only a cop that has dirt on just about everybody is as cocky as this chief sounds.
al verum at April 25, 2014 1:11 AM
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