The Incredible Rudeness Of Being Cheap
Wonderful piece by a writer I've been a fan of since my days back in New York, Joe Queenan, on cheapness. Per the question he poses in the headline -- "Cheapskates: Misguided Thrift or Character Flaw?" -- yes I believe it is a character flaw: one that may be prompted by fear (which is no excuse for not overcoming it). An excerpt from Queenan's piece at The Rotarian:
Several things about cheap people baffle me. One, do they think they are getting away with it? Do they think the rest of us don't notice that they're always in the bathroom when the check arrives? And what do they hope to gain from this? Are they keeping a running tab of how much money they save over the course of a lifetime? Were the proceeds from all those un-tipped waiters and shortchanged friends enough to buy a Barcalounger? A trip to Myrtle Beach? If you add up all the money that cheapskates save by stiffing friends over a 70-year period, it works out to $456.78. Yes, I have run the numbers.Cheapness in the modern world may well be a product of the ʼ60s, when people developed the idea of "sticking it to the man." This mindset manifests itself in such baleful activities as lying about being a senior to get cheaper movie tickets or asking your neighbor if you can illegally share his cable feed.
I view cheapness as a deal breaker vis-à-vis friendships. I do not want to be around cheapskates. Their behavior introduces a level of suspense into each and every outing, in which I spend the whole time wondering whether I am going to get stiffed. I dread that awkward moment when the check arrives and I wonder if my friend is going to feign a coronary, or say that he forgot his wallet, or simply fail to pony up for his portion of the tip. Of course, all this could be avoided by asking for separate checks. But "separate checks" are the two most disgusting words in the English language. They are. They suggest that you have already decided that you are not going to treat the other party to a free meal, that you have made a preemptive decision not to be generous. Or that you already fear you are going to get stiffed.
...But what I most hate about cheapskates is the disappointment I feel in their presence. Cheap people make me sad. When people who borrowed a bottle of classy, expensive wine replace it with swill, my heart breaks. It makes me sad that there are people so lacking in basic human decency. It means they are not really one of us.
...To me, cheapness is a sign of a much deeper problem, a poverty of spirit that I find appalling. Cheapness is a reflection of a deeper character flaw. It is a form of theft. A person who would stiff you on a bar bill would probably turn you over to the secret police too.
via @HardenKurt
While I entirely agree with the contempt for people who try to cheat and trick others into paying for their food, drinks, and tip, disagree with this:
> "separate checks" are the two most disgusting words in the English language. They are.
Bullshit.
Separate checks allow friends to compartmentalize. I can order a bigger meal, or a desert, without worrying that I'm imposing on a friend, or vice versa...and allow each person to get what they want without a "tragedy of the commons" breaking out, where each person thinks "well, if we're splitting the check evenly, I might as well get X because I only have to pay for a fraction of it."
The opinion about separate checks is a cultural thing. In some places (the midwest, in my experience) it's assumed, and the checks are brought out that way. In other places, it's weird (NYC, LA ?). In most places, though, it's just one valid option among others...and it is, to use leftist cant, presumptive and non-inclusive to declare that my culture of paying my own way (and no more and no less) is unacceptable.
TJIC at April 23, 2014 7:17 AM
When dining with a friend, I find separate checks to be crass. I'd rather pay.
Matt at April 23, 2014 7:18 AM
>>allow each person to get what they want without a "tragedy of the commons" breaking out, where each person thinks "well, if we're splitting the check evenly, I might as well get X because I only have to pay for a fraction of it."
Either you or your friends truly suck if you have this attitude when dining out.
Matt at April 23, 2014 7:20 AM
> Either you or your friends truly suck if you have this attitude when dining out.
I find it amusing that you feel free to insult someone you've never met because their customs differ from yours, but ** I ** am the rude one.
TJIC at April 23, 2014 7:23 AM
I probably should point out that I don't eat out with people who aren't my friends - no dining out with fellow employees(don't have any) or people I barely know, so that might account for part of my attitude.
matt at April 23, 2014 7:24 AM
Reciprocal gift giving is a cross-cultural universal. And for good reasons. Why do we give Christmas presents--only to get things back. Why buy rounds, rather than just buy your own drink? Why do some south-sea islanders pass gifts in a circular fashion around the islands from chief to chief?
Simple--its a relatively low cost way of spotting cheaters. The writer is spot-on. The person who can;t be trusted can be spotted by their behavior
Robert King at April 23, 2014 7:27 AM
>>I find it amusing that you feel free to insult
Don't think of it as an insult, just a judgement call.
Matt at April 23, 2014 7:27 AM
Separate checks are disgusting- basic arithmetic will tell everyone what they owe, from the person who had two cocktails and dessert to the person that only had flat water.
Jeffrey at April 23, 2014 7:36 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2014/04/23/cheapskates.html#comment-4527100">comment from JeffreyBeing frugal means that I order clothes used off eBay when I even buy clothes. Being not cheap means bringing nice wine to a friend's party so people don't get hangovers the next day.
Cheapness is a spirit thing. Being not cheap means extending yourself for other people. It doesn't mean that you let yourself be pushed around or walked on or dragged into something. It means you choose to be giving.
Amy Alkon at April 23, 2014 7:37 AM
>> Cheapness is a spirit thing.
I have a few people I eat out with on a regular basis, all friends.
1 person has little money so I usually treat, though they treat when they can.
1 person has a good job and supports a family, we alternate paying. If we forget whose "turn" it is, one of us will grab the check figuring it was our turn.
1 person has a good job and no family to support. This person often wants to split the check though they usually throw in more then half.
I do not like getting separate checks or splitting the tab; I'd rather pay. The person who wants to split the check simply gives me money, no real calculations are made.
Assholio at April 23, 2014 8:00 AM
I like keeping things simple and drama-free, which 'separate checks' does in spades.
Wife and I can be frugal or splurge if we want. I can order an appetizer to share with everyone or not order an appetizer. We don't expect to share wine or appetizers but will if asked.
I can pay w/cash or credit card as I need to at the time regardless of how other pay.
Simple is as simple does (Forest Gump?)
Bob in Texas at April 23, 2014 8:06 AM
Bob in Texas makes a good point, so I'm trying to figure out why I plain hate splitting or getting separate checks. Can't say I have a solid reason for it. Just doesn't "feel" right.
Matt at April 23, 2014 8:13 AM
>>Simple is as simple does (Forest Gump?)
"Stupid is as stupid does." - Forrest Gump. Probably not what you were going for.
Matt at April 23, 2014 8:15 AM
Great, great piece, and I agree with most of Queenan's points. Having dinner in a restaurant with a cheapskate is really uncomfortable, particularly when it comes time to tip.
I do have to say I would have handled this differently:
I had a po’ boy and a Coke, and a cup of coffee; my friend had an enormous plate of ribs, two glasses of wine, and a snifter of brandy. When the check came, he threw his credit card onto the table, saying we should split the bill. My share was $65. Wow, I thought, that was one high-priced po’ boy.
No. It goes like this:
"Bill, I just had a po-boy and a Coke. Here's $20."
Or, if you know someone really well:
"Are you crazy? I just had a po-boy, for Christ's sake. Here's $20."
Kevin at April 23, 2014 8:30 AM
"Bob in Texas makes a good point, so I'm trying to figure out why I plain hate splitting or getting separate checks. Can't say I have a solid reason for it. Just doesn't "feel" right."
Perhaps becuase in the past, a cheapskate who wanted to sponge off of you berated you for asking for separate checks. Cheapskaes aren't frugal; they're freeloaders.
Cousin Dave at April 23, 2014 8:32 AM
When dining with a friend, I find separate checks to be crass. I'd rather pay.
Cool. Then I'd order the most expensive thing on the menu, and ask for separate checks.
Bob in Texas has it right. I order what I want, and you don't need to subsidize it, either in part or in whole.
'Cause I ain't asking nobody for nothin'
If I can't get it on my own
If you don't like the way I'm livin'
You just leave this long haired country boy alone
I R A Darth Aggie at April 23, 2014 8:37 AM
I find the people who find separate checks or figuring out the math to be rude are usually the same people who order appetizers, wine, the most expensive entree and dessert while their friends order salad and seltzer, and expect to split the check down the middle.
I'm happy to split the check if it comes to within a few bucks of each other, but otherwise, I'm with Kevin or Jeff, "I had the eggplant which was about 12, the coke which was about 3 and the salad which was about 6, so that's 21, plus 4 for tip plus a couple for tax, that's about 27". I might put in 30 depending what bills I have.
Most of my friends aren't assholes and everyone tends to round up so sometimes we end up having way too huge of a tip, but better that than the reverse.
NicoleK at April 23, 2014 8:48 AM
Oh and if the person I'm expecting to split a check with (in whatever fraction) is in the restroom, I'll wait for them. Mr Queenan seems like a bit of a pushover if this is happening to him. I've never met someone who tried to get out of paying at all, just people who order everything on the menu and expect to split evenly even though there are 5 people in their family and 2 in the friends'.
NicoleK at April 23, 2014 8:51 AM
Given that a meal in a pretty good restaurant in the US runs about 60 bucks a head, how is he reaching the 400 bucks figure? You only need to stiff folks a few times before you pass that... did I read it wrong?
NicoleK at April 23, 2014 8:54 AM
I have no problem asking for separate checks when I've been regularly stiffed by someone in the past.
I'll happily split a check with a friend, even if that friend had a higher priced meal, knowing that it will all even out (with my friends, it usually does). Of course, if he ordered the steak and lobster and I had an appetizer, I expect him to offer to pay a higher portion of the bill.
However, if you make a habit of taking undue advantage of my generosity, I'm getting separate checks.
I had to pull the "separate checks" routine with a friend of my wife's. She would repeatedly order an expensive menu item and "discover" that she didn't have the cash to cover the entire amount. Oh, and that she had left her credit cards at home (didn't want to be tempted to use them, you know).
It didn't take long to realize that she was never going to reciprocate, so I told the waitress at our next outing to put everything on separate checks (my wife, also tired of her mooching, had agreed to this beforehand). Amazingly, she "discovered" a credit card at the bottom of her purse and used that to pay her bill.
Direct action sure beat the passive-aggressive way of dealing with it - using feeble excuses to avoid going out with her again. This accomplished the same thing, but was quicker. After that, this "friend" never suggested we go out to dinner again.
Conan the Grammarian at April 23, 2014 8:59 AM
Of course, there's a difference between being cheap and being a mooch.
The cheap person doesn't order the lobster and expect others to pay for it. The mooch does. The cheap person orders hot water with lemon and dips a tea bag brought from home in it while filling up on bread.
Conan the Grammarian at April 23, 2014 9:01 AM
pretty sure we have a regionalism thing here... I live in the Rocky Mtn West, and I've never not paid for my own meal, regardless if the checks are pre- split or not.
The only exception among friends has always been special occasion dinners, like birthdays... then you pay for that friend, because it'sa gift.
There's no question of generosity, or it's passive-aggressive evil twin... and among my friends, if someone is in a tight spot, yeah you might buy something for 'em, but only if you know they will take it well. If not, then you don't get them something.
When we go out, it's for the companionship, the food is secondary.
Dunno... a lot of this seems like a power dynamics thing.
I may call myself a cheapskate as a colloquialism, what I mean is frugal. I would never skate out on my responsibilities.
SwissArmyD at April 23, 2014 9:38 AM
I consider myself cheap. I am not a mooch. I also tip well.
I've hated going out to lunch with coworkers, I order an appetizer for my meal and no drink and they want to split evenly. I purposely ordered less to save money.
Katrina at April 23, 2014 9:40 AM
I also have no problem with separate checks. Having been out with a group of co-workers (mandatory "fun"), it was a pain to all pass the bill around and get our totals (and usually somebody would stiff or not tip).
That said, I've also dinned out with families and it is plain old practical - at least when the kids are young. Kids often spontaneously explode in fatigue and it's good to be able to get out quick to not bug others dining. So, if another family wants to stay, they can hang out, get coffee and desert, and I can leave.
Another point, when two (or more) families eat out together, adding up each family's bill can be a chore (especially if the bill isn't in family order) and mistakes are easy when you've got 10 people dining and you are adding up 5 of them (typically 10 entries or more).
Splitting down the middle works well if it's two families and they get together often enough for it to reciprocate... and we do that with some folks when their family is roughly equal in size. But if I have 2 kids, and you have one toddler, the bills won't be close. Similarly if you have two teenage boys and I have a couple elementary school kids.
Separate checks also allow one family to treat another without feeling any family-size imbalance. We'll dine out with other families and get separate checks... and then order a couple appetizers (on our bill) for everyone to share. Usually, the other family will then say "let us buy dessert/coffee." Everyone walks away feeling like they were generous and like their friends value them.
Shannon M. Howell at April 23, 2014 9:43 AM
@SwissArmyD:
> pretty sure we have a regionalism thing here...
Agreed; I called that out above.
I have no problem that the MidWest always splits, or that LA / NYC / DC never split, or that people in China do whatever it is that people in China do.
I'm amused / dismayed at the vehemence of the folks with the big city memes that their's is the Only Right Way (tm).
@Katrina:
> I consider myself cheap. I am not a mooch. I also tip well.
Same here. I order what I want, I pay my own way, and I tip generously.
@Matt:
> > > either you suck or your friends do
> >
> > I find it amusing that you feel free to insult
>
> Don't think of it as an insult, just a judgement call.
Now I think of you as someone who tosses insults and is such a weasel that you double-down while pretending that no offense was intended.
You think that my friends and I are losers because we don't share the same regional culture you do. Don't evade that, and don't pretend it's not an insult. It is, and it was meant as one. Be a big boy and either apologize or stand by your words.
TJIC at April 23, 2014 9:56 AM
This is the funniest thing Joe Queenan ever wrote.
It is all, ALL about being cheap.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at April 23, 2014 11:01 AM
(Note!) …About Queenan being cheap.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at April 23, 2014 11:35 AM
>>Now I think of you as someone who tosses insults and is such a weasel that you double-down while pretending that no offense was intended.
Actually I was mocking you because the only reason for you to feel insulted was if you think you fall into the category of people I was referring to as people who suck.
I probably included too much of your post in my quote as I was precisely referring to
' where each person thinks "well, if we're splitting the check evenly, I might as well get X because I only have to pay for a fraction of it."'
So, if you or your friends are the type of people who think this way when you eat out with others, then in my judgement you or your friends suck. I'll stand by that, I'm not fond of petty people.
Assuming this is not the way you think, my apologies for the misunderstanding. My Bad.
As for splitting the check or getting separate checks I still think it is crass in some situations, but perfectly reasonable in others.
I personally would rather pick up the entire check then split it. If I invite you or a group to dine with me, order what you like and I will be picking up the tab. If you invite me I figure you are paying.
If the circumstances warranted it, I would get a separate check instead of splitting a check. For instance I can see how if I and a group of friends got together on a regular basis we'd probably do separate checks.
Matt at April 23, 2014 2:39 PM
The trouble with the word "cheapskate" is that it's too vague.
What's wrong with calling really awful people "moochers" or "thieves" instead? Assuming that's what they're doing.
I can only hope that no current friend of mine has EVER hid in the bathroom when the bill is coming - assuming, that is, that the other person has already said, in advance: "This will be Dutch."
Granted, if the latter person didn't say that AND was the inviter, it's still wise for the former person to clarify things in advance - but whatever happened to the rule that says "whoever invites, pays"?
On the subject of friends who don't like having separate checks, for whatever reason: If you get "invited" out and you know you're not being treated and don't want to take any chances on spending more than you should have to, you can say: "Oh, sorry, but maybe I should decline - I'm on a budget and I don't eat out much and so the only way I can handle this is by having separate checks." See what they say. (Of course, they may leave you behind - but so what?)
What REALLY makes me angry are those who offer "hospitality" at their birthday/anniversary parties by going to a restaurant and expecting the "guests" to pay for their own meals - and sometimes the "host's" as well. Miss Manners keeps reminding people that this is wrong - but even little kids are being groomed to accept this these days. Gag.
lenona at April 23, 2014 2:44 PM
The man conflated the notion of 'cheapskate' with that of 'moocher'. The former can be unappealing (and most often applies in domestic settings) but it's not a species of embezzlement.
Art Deco at April 23, 2014 2:53 PM
Well, Matt, it's refreshing to see that your reasoning has evolved, in the course of a day.
to: "I can see how if I and a group of friends got together on a regular basis we'd probably do separate checks."
from: "Either you or your friends truly suck if you have this attitude when dining out."
Remarkable. Truly remarkable.
That's the Internet at work ... remember that the next time you see a bunch of morons attempting to argue about which sucks worse, the Democrats or Republicans. Cling to this tiny shred of hope.
I believe it was Bob in Texas who gets the credit for this major behavioral breakthrough.
Pirate Jo at April 23, 2014 5:17 PM
If someone really wants to split the check that's fine with me, but I'm good at math so don't expect me to split it down the middle. I'll put the split in the right place. Including the 20% tip.
Assholio at April 23, 2014 5:58 PM
I proudly call myself a cheapskate. We buy nearly nothing new. I coupon. I low bid on priceline. I get all our clothes (except my scrubs and hubby's clothing) free or next to, from freecycle and consignment sales and hand me downs. I would NEVER try to get a friend to pay my way and I would never drink good wine and give crap. That's not cheapskate, that's asshole.
I am all for separate checks unless it's a really good friend where we KNOW it will even out over time and have no need to even discuss it. If I have dessert there's no need for you to pay for it and vice versa. It's not harder on the waiter, it's pushing a few buttons. No biggie.
The author has asshole friends, and improving THAT should be his focus.
momof4 at April 23, 2014 7:20 PM
I think Queenan would feel better if he, just once, would say, "Dude, I ate the equivalent of bread and water while you ate filet mignon! You put it on your credit card; I'll give you $10 in cash." It's possible that the guy with whom Queenan led the article is a miserable mooch; it's also possible that he's used to hanging out with people who eat the way that he does and thus find splitting the check to be equitable. Perhaps if Queenan had acted like a big boy and used his words, things could have been cleared up, but I guess that would have taken too much effort.
And as far as I'm concerned, the only bad thing about separate checks (assuming the meal has not consisted of a whole lot of shared appetizers) is that producing them often takes more time and effort for the harried waitstaff.
marion at April 23, 2014 9:05 PM
Holy Crap! Let me get this straight; *I'M* the one who is cheap or crass because I do NOT pay for your drinks at dinner because I ask for separate checks?!
Sorry, I don't drink, so why the fuck should I "split" the check with those who do. Drinks can often account for more than half a dinner check.
There is "cheap" and there is cheapness which imposes itself on others - by insisting that we all split the check those who order more expensive stuff, drink more, etc. are the ones being cheap by insisting that I subsidize their meals and drinks. Now, that's crass (and as Art Deco points out it's called being a moocher)
Oh, and BTW, most (not all; but most) restaurants have electronic methods of easily producing checks for each member of the dinner party. it really isn't that much extra work for the wait staff.
Further, my experience has been my tip (I might be cheap with spending money on myself; but I am NOT cheap when it comes to tipping) often helps to pay for someone else's meal instead of going to the wait staff. Why? because the crass person who insisted that we split the bill doesn't see my tip as a tip, he usually sees it as helping to pay for his drinks.
Charles at April 24, 2014 1:34 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2014/04/23/cheapskates.html#comment-4531490">comment from marionhe's used to hanging out with people who eat the way that he does and thus find splitting the check to be equitable.
It's ugly to have to ask people to be fair. I write about this in "Good Manners For Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck" -- that the person who ordered what cost way beyond what the other one did needs to be the one to suggest paying more (in cases where it's a group thing and one person had the $12 tofu platter and the other had the $45 steak, etc.).
Amy Alkon at April 24, 2014 5:16 AM
Asking for separate checks is being cheap? Really? In my mind, having expectations that the other person should pay for your sorry ass instead of paying for yourself is rude and selfish, especially if there was no discussion of this ahead of time! I really don't get the outrage of this. If the other person makes an offer to pay, that's one thing. That's being a generous soul. But for you to go out with another person to eat and have some kind of mindset that "well, he should pay because (whatever stupid justification your mind comes up with)" is just out there! If you paid last time, so what? If it was to make the other person somehow feel obligated to pay next time, you really are doing it for the wrong reason.
The only thing I'm convinced of is that I really don't want to have lunch with such petty, small people. Probably wouldn't like how I dress or my accent, either!
Jim Armstrong at April 24, 2014 6:00 AM
Speaking of cultural differences regarding dinner checks, I used to live in Korea and they have a very clear cultural norm on this. You invite, you pay. If you can't afford it, you don't invite someone to dinner. If you don't reciprocate at some point, don't expect another invitation.
I had about eight Korean buddies who liked to all go out for dinner and drinks as a big group. When I did the inviting, I'd drop about five hundred bucks or so (luckily, dinner and drinks are pretty cheap there). After that, I'd have months of getting treated and it all came out in the wash pretty well without all the awkwardness of the math and all of that when the bill came. Dinner, by the way, was about a four hour affair. A lot of fun, but hell on the knees of this American who wasn't used to sitting on the floor.
whistleDick at April 24, 2014 6:00 AM
Sigh. Blindness. Those of you proposing that someone should throw a $20 for their share haven't realized that everybody at the table might be using credit or debit cards for everything. When there's a big difference there, there is no alternative to splitting the check.
Radwaste at April 24, 2014 7:15 AM
"Sigh. Blindness. Those of you proposing that someone should throw a $20 for their share haven't realized that everybody at the table might be using credit or debit cards for everything. When there's a big difference there, there is no alternative to splitting the check."
That's true. However, that brings up a thing that annoys me (and probably only me). It seems like nobody at all that is any younger than me, I'm 43, carries any cash around anymore. Debit cards are great, but I don't understand how someone can feel at ease not having at least a little cash on them. At some point, the magnetic strip on your card just isn't going to work or something like that. This leaves the card-holder to be bailed out by his companions. Also, I like to eat at food trucks a lot. They have really great tacos and stuff here in the Southwest. I can't tell you how many times I've had to cough up for coworkers when they just couldn't imagine that the food truck didn't take a card.
For God's sake, have a hundred bucks on you. Just because. You ever fill up your tank at a gas station just as their system goes down? Why doesn't anyone carry cash anymore? I don't know why this annoys me so much. It just does.
whistleDick at April 24, 2014 7:56 AM
We don't usually ask for seperate checks when we're out with friends, but we don't have friends that try to stiff us. I find that when someone tries to weasel out of paying their part, or "forgets" to add in their portion of tax or tip, it's usually a person who ISN'T part of the group. With us, it's much more likely that there's way too much money on the table when everything is tallied up, so the waiter gets a 25-30% tip, but that's fine. It's been years since we got screwed by someone not paying their share, but we've learned that there are certain people who you can't meet out. (I'm talking about situations where a group all decides to have a night out together, not two people at a happy hour.)
ahw at April 24, 2014 2:10 PM
To clarify what I said about "whoever invites, pays":
Again, I trust I don't actually know any women like the following. However, there are, apparently, women who will say to a man "shall we go eat somewhere?" and then expect him to pay for HER. This cannot go on. Of course, many a man might ask the same question and mistakenly assume that she knows they're going Dutch just because he didn't say "may I take you to lunch." Dumb move. Though of course it would also be dumb for her to assume that he's paying for her when he DIDN'T say the latter. All the more reason to talk before going out, awkward as it may seem - some people still don't realize that "may I take you to lunch" DOES usually mean "may I pay for your meal."
Miss Manners said in one of her books that when a woman who is not a hooker still goes around trying to get men to buy drinks for her, a man can say: "And here I was hoping you'd buy me one."
(She also said, elsewhere, that one thing people should NEVER do - but they often do - is act as though the richer person should pay a higher share of the bill or all of it. "It is vulgar to notice how much money another person makes.")
I think, though, that the real problem is, American dating couples can't decide which they resent more - going Dutch all the time or paying for a date's meal and then possibly waiting days or weeks for the other person to reciprocate INSTEAD of going Dutch again and again. So what happens? All sorts of miscommunications, I'd guess, such as both sides never making a direct invitation to pay for both but hoping that the other person will crack first.
Here's metalman, from Glenn Sacks' website, in 2008, who likely never learned the art of saying "shall we go split the check on a meal?" (I'm guessing that the woman didn't ask HIM out, or he would have said so.) Of course, she was dumb not to ask in advance just what he meant.
"This all has very little to do with money. Neither does it have anything to do with fancy-shmancy arguments. It's really quite simple. If I'm sitting across the table from a woman who touts her grrrlll power during a date, and then when the check comes, she runs for the women's room or hides her head in the sand, I know she's full of S__t. She's a con artist and a liar. Why? Because she claims to be one thing, then acts like another thing.
"THE MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE.
"I'll say it again:
"THE MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE.
"The issue, for me at least, is CHARACTER AND INTEGRITY. It's about someone saying 'This is what I am,' and then acting that way."
(end)
Whistledick - as a frugal type who believes in shopping as seldom as possible, I very much believe in paying with cash, since I don't usually need more than $20 on any shopping trip. Jim Cramer once said (not verbatim) "Paying with cash HURTS! All the more reason to use it!"
But just as importantly, I can keep a lot of stuff organized in my wallet and then leave it at home. That way, if I lose one thing, I don't lose everything. If I use my credit card only once or twice a month, I can leave it at home most of the time and don't have to worry about its getting lost and picked up by someone, and I have the peace of mind from knowing that when some local chain store's database gets hacked, I didn't use my card with them anyway. Bottom line: I don't take ANYTHING valuable out of my house if I can help it - I would never be comfortable carrying around a laptop if I didn't have to.
lenona at April 24, 2014 4:50 PM
I agree for the most with what was originally presented here except for the person described is not a cheapskate but rather a freeloader or a mooch.
A cheapskate is willing to go to great lengths and/or sacrifice to save a little but they pay what is due. A classic cheap skate I knew (more knew of) as a kid would buy the store brand dish soap to use instead of Shampoo for his hair. I can see him now saying "cost me just 99 cents...cheapest shampoo is two fifty for just a fancy bottle and a little perfume!"
Separate checks is best for all but the closest of friends. In my experience two many people popped in and out in the less groups and so thinks didn't come out in the wash. And different prices. Some buds I regularly went out with always got the happy hour special which was $3...but I didn't care for that crap so got something more to my like which was about $6.
The Former Banker at April 24, 2014 7:58 PM
I agree with what some others have said here: there's a difference between being cheap (or frugal) and being a mooch. A person who is cheap orders a $10 sandwich instead of a $30 entree but they'll gladly pay for what they ordered. A mooch could order the entree or the sandwich but they'll try to dodge paying for it. A person who's cheap doesn't impose on you. A person who's a mooch does.
Queenan: Do they think the rest of us don't notice that they're always in the bathroom when the check arrives?
If someone notices that a dining companion is "always" in the bathroom when the check arrives, then perhaps that someone should speak up, instead of always paying for the other person and then whining about it.
Queenan: But "separate checks" are the two most disgusting words in the English language.
The Queenan Principle: if you don't like something, then it is objectively terrible; if you find something offensive, then it is objectively disgusting.
JD at April 25, 2014 11:48 AM
Nicole: I've never met someone who tried to get out of paying at all, just people who order everything on the menu and expect to split evenly even though there are 5 people in their family and 2 in the friends'.
Same here. I can't recall ever being out with someone who tried to dodge paying entirely. What I have experienced is what you (and some others have noted): people ordering items that cost a lot more but expecting to split the bill evenly. I see that as a form of mooching, and I agree with what Amy said she wrote in her new book: the person who ordered what cost way beyond what the other one did needs to be the one to suggest paying more.
JD at April 25, 2014 11:56 AM
Separate checks.
My buddy and I eat out regularly. I always pay cash. She never pays cash. We both tip well though.
If I invite, I pay.
We also do little things for each other. Like she got me a McMuffin today and wouldn't take my money.
LauraGr at April 25, 2014 4:58 PM
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