Here's the recent Cato version, including this helpful graphic.

Right. Sure.

As someone living in Europe, I am not seeing it. Why are Americans here? Sure, the local towns like it - foreign money spent locally is good for their economies. But militarily? Since the end of the cold war, there really is no military threat.

What is this "risk their lives" business? Are the soldiers in Germany in danger of drinking too much beer at Oktoberfest?

The real reason that the American military is still present in Europe is because the US wants to be here. Why? Better questions are:

Why does the US insist on maintaining such a huge military?

Why does the US have bases throughout the world?

> Since the end of the cold war, there really
> is no military threat.

You're goddamn right there isn't. This is so inane... Euroweenies have truly convinced themselves that they're responsible for the first sixty years of broadly Continental peace in six or seven centuries.

Bradley... We're going to need you to run some errands for us. With Putin's Ukraine and Crimea incursions still fresh on everyone's mind, we want you to go tell Hungary, Romania and Poland they have nothing to worry about. Use your own preferred phrasing: "There really is no military threat."

Then, before you turn in, ask the Estonians if they'd be mind if the United States decided to drop its obligations to Tallinn under the NATO treaties to which we're both signatories.

'Cause it turns out our Nobel-laureate President doesn't like having to deal with, y'know, unpleasantries.

> Why are Americans here? Sure, the local towns like it - foreign money spent locally is good for their economies. But militarily?

On some level, part of me feels I would rather the US have military bases all over the world, than just about any other more despotic nation (Would the world be better if China had military bases everywhere? No. Russia? Hell no. Etc.) An interesting thought experiment is to contemplate what might happen if the US shut down all those bases, leaving power vacuums all over the place. I have no doubt some countries would immediately consider military expansionism (e.g. Russia would be emboldened to push West ... and imagine what a Russia/China 'axis' could pull off). North Korea might invade South Korea if we withdrew there. Israel would likely be destroyed catastrophically and the Middle East overrun with nastier demagogues.

On the other hand, a lot of US military expenditure is not only a severe waste of money, but also money very badly spent (e.g. at least $2 trillion just on the latest Iraq War - and now we're talking about going back, wtf? - and then they say we have no money for science or education or infrastructure etc. - $2 trillion could have e.g. funded NASA for the next 100 years). So I'm fine 'in principle' with foreign bases, but think they should be trimmed back, we should cease with all the unnecessary destructive wars, and refocus on a more core ethical vision of promoting peaceful global interaction etc. The excessive expenditure may be partly thanks to the lobbying 'system'.

Nature, and that includes geopolitics, dislikes a vacuum; if the US weren't there in Europe some other military would be.

Sure, it is a big "waste" of money. But, a bigger waste of money would be to fight another World War in Europe for a THIRD time.

Sorry, but I do believe that Europeans would be at each other's throats if Americans weren't stationed where they are.

Bradley, you really think there is no military threat to Western Europe? Maybe you should ask yourself why?

Why don't France and Germany go to war any more? It isn't because they have grown to like each other. No, they don't/won't go to war with each other now precisely because any such fighting would have to involve US troops already stationed there.

On the one hand I wish Europeans would pay for their own damn defense. But, on the other hand I know they would much rather spend their tax dollars on "freebies" for the socialist, welfare state while letting some dictator (Putin? did someone mention Putin?) run over neighboring countries only to drag the US into another all-continent fight costing us more money and more lives than our current pro-active, preventive measures.

Also, US troops and US military bases in Europe are a good thing as it gives us a closer presence to North Africa and the Middle East.

It is too bad that our current weenie-in-chief let slip a perfect opportunity to set up a similar deal right in the heart of the Middle East in Iraq. Maybe, just maybe, it we had set up such a deal in Iraq we wouldn't be hearing/seeing the disturbing news coming out of that soon-to-be-a-hell-hole country.

May God protect those innocents caught up in that nightmare because we know the current US administration won't and the Europeans certainly won't.

Yes, Americans are war-weary; But, even more than that we are tired of Zeropeans bitching at us (remember all the anti-Bush protests in Europe - quite nasty stuff) while also complaining that we aren't doing enough and calling us ignorant yokels.

Zeropeans are like spoilt teenagers: "Dad, you won't treat me like an adult! No, I won't clean my own room; Mom always makes my bed and does my laundry. Now, where are the car keys and I need money for gas, Pops."

So, one day I will join the chorus of "US out of Europe" because they aren't fucking worth it.

Most of the world is reverting back to its pre-WWII state. The EU overreached and is now falling apart. Russia is re-creating the Soviet Union. The Middle East is becoming balkanized, and I expect that trend to spread throughout a lot of that region of the world (which will, in turn, create more opportunities for Russia). And Africa is, well, Africa.

To put it bluntly, the world is becoming far less safe for Americans. In the future, our international travel and business opportunities will be very limited compared to what they are now. It is important to maintain our eyes and ears around the world because we never know where the next threat is coming from, but at least initially, the chaos will be beyond our capability to manage. Sadly, at this point there is little we can do for Iraq -- had the situation been managed better over the last 8 years or so, things would be different. But we lost that war and that's now water under the bridge.

The best we can do at this point is try to insulate ourselves from the semi-dark age that is coming. This means secure borders, a handful of trustworthy allies, and to a great extent, a return to economic self-sufficiency. The Army has a big job to do here at home, protecting America's borders. We need fewer of them over there and more of them here.

As Cousin Dave says: allies, yes. And, of course, allies support each other. What I find crazy about positions like Charles' is the idea that the world will cease to exist without American help.

Stop spending yourselves broke, and then blaming Europe because you can't reign in your military-industrial complex. Go home. If your allies need you, they'll give a call. Actually, at the moment, it looks more like the second American civil war - why else is DHS stocking up on military hardware.

If the world is entering a dark time, it is because governments have sucked the life out of their respective economies. Massive taxes, insane levels of debts; with $200 trillion in unfunded obligations, the U.S. government is a prime example of this. Go home, cut spending by 75% or more, rebuild your economy, and perhaps - in a generation or two - America will regain its preeminence.

"Massive taxes, insane levels of debts; with $200 trillion in unfunded obligations, the U.S. government is a prime example of this. "

You're right about that, but you misdiagnose the cause. Totally eliminating the American military would not balance the federal budget. It starts and ends with entitlements and the bloat of the administrative state. Eliminating every other expense of the federal govenrment would still not pay for those things.

And, y'know, European governments haven't exactly been shining examples in that regard either. Where do you think the American leftists learned it from?

> What I find crazy about positions like Charles' is the idea that the world will cease to exist without American help

Of course the world won't 'cease to exist', but you'd have a lot of these - resulting in large-scale chaos, war, destruction ... none of which would be good for anybody: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_vacuum

"If your allies need you, they'll give a call."

Ha! Yea, you'll give us a call when things have gotten so bad that it will cost us more money and more lives. Europeans have done that to us twice now - why should we wait for a third time?

America needs its bases in Europe for logistic reasons... Europe is closer to the current theatres of war than the geographically isolated US is.

I don't think France and Germany would go to war if the US left Kaiserslauten, that's not a threat I'm worried about at all. There are other threats... Russia continues to be a threat, massive immigration and low native birthrates are a threat, the Middle East powder keg is a threat... but France and Germany going to war? I do't think so.

Dave, Bradley lives in Switzerland where massive government debt is not a problem.

> Stop spending yourselves broke, and then blaming
> Europe because you can't reign in your military-
> industrial complex.

Oh, bend over and blow. Who the fuck are you?


Ahem.


> What I find crazy about positions like Charles'
> is the idea that the world will cease to exist
> without American help.

I can assume you're young and stupid, but for now we'll go with young.

In just the last 35-ish years, my adult lifetime and and roughly half the post-war era:

• Illiteracy has been cut in half, and plunges still.

• Incidence of blindness has fallen by nearly 50%, and by a 3rd in the last 20 years alone.

• The percentage of infants receiving vaccinations has risen from 5% to 85%.

• The number of the world's poorest people (earning less than $1/day) has fallen in half.

And in fact, no such thing ever did. Peace, prosperity, safety and nourishment have extended their reach across our planet in ways that no sane man would have dare to have dreamt when your grandmother was born... And they've marched under the shelter of American might and decency.

> perhaps - in a generation or two -
> America will regain its preeminence.

Oh, for the love of a cocksucking Christ in Hell...

To what nation has America surrendered "preeminence"?

Who gets the phone call when things go wrong? Who does the Arab League call for military intervention when the Libya and Syria get wobbly? To whom do the nations of the world, friend and foe, look for free information about the calving of icebergs (in a hemisphere not our own)? Where do people turn for support in times of disaster such as earthquakes and typhoon? For which navy are Japan, the Phillipines and even Viet Nam retrofiting their docks for carrier accomodation?

I notice you didn't get back to me with reports on your conferences in Budapest, Bucharest, Warsaw and Tallinn.

It would be great if you could answer all these questions. They are not rhetorical.

Perhaps you're not good for much, but we should expect you to take some interest in your own goddamn neighborhood... But you haven't the courage.

What did your country ever do for anyone?

Bradster -- Bradsman -- Brad-a-saures...

Set aside your pride for a moment and just try to understand the irony by which Amy placed this post with the adjacent one about the safety of American childhood in her lifetime.


The things you're talking about, our internal finances and so forth, are actually none of your motherfucking business. (You're nonetheless entranced, because no meaningful frontiers in human character are explored in the news reports from your own nation.)

But to whatever extent you are paying attention to world events, the headlines are clear: You should be doing more for other nations and our commons, militarily and otherwise.

But you don't.

Can you understand how fucked up that is?

Oh, goody!

Google.com —

bradley13 Site:www.advicegoddess.com/archives/

About 946 results (0.52 seconds)

What do you want to bet that some of them have even more advice about how Americans ought to deal with things... But have no indication that the comment is coming from outside our country? …That they have no indication that the commenter won't be responsible for the fulfillment of his suggestions in any way?

Be sure to look at the "reader's links" blog post that Amy does on Wednesday morning. I have to go to work now, but tonight I'll look through Bradley13's comments, and I'll share a deeper appreciation for his feelings about the United States of America.

It will be interesting to you, I promise!




I love it when this happens.

(Those feelings may already be apparent: How many of you have posted a thousand comments on a blog in another country?)

Hmmm...I seem to have hit a nerve, Crid. You should have that looked at.

What exactly is the relevance of improving worldwide literacy, reduced blindness, etc.? Are you claiming American credit for all of that? Or does it, perhaps, have to do with a generally rising standard of living in poorer countries - which might, frankly, have happened in any case? Alternate history is hard to check, of course, but there's an argument to be made.

"Who do you call" - sure, you're right. If there's a guy living on the block willing to answer every call for help, lots of people living in the neighborhood will call him to unstop their drains at 3am.

The problem comes when he's prefers to wield a hammer instead of a wrench. The drain in Iraq worked a lot better before 2003. So did the one in Afghanistan, Syria, Libya. If we go back in history, look at the mess the US made in Central and South America.

The funny thing is the American claim to fame "we bailed Europe out in the World Wars". You know, when someone calls for slavery reparations, the usual (entirely justified) reply is "I didn't own any slaves, that wasn't me". Well, with very few, very elderly exceptions, it also wasn't you who landed in Normandy.

Your generation broke Iraq, broke Libya, destabilized the whole bloody Middle East and fostered a huge new generation of Islamists who really, really hate the West. Gee, thanks, I notice they aren't in your back yard.

What did Switzerland ever do for anyone? It may be less spectacular than starting wars and blowing things up, but you'll find Switzerland has quietly managed diplomatic efforts in more crises than you can count. Plenty are in the public record, lots more aren't...

By the way, I'm 54, and spent 10 years in the military. I do know of what I speak - just from a slightly different perspective from yourself.

Ah, the fearsome Swiss military… World-renowned for picking the teeth and plucking the brows of their pitiable adversaries...

Seeya tomorrow morning, Pilgrim! Remember to visit the 'reader comments' post!

Well, if it's entertaining for you. Seems unlikely that I've made 1000 comments, likely something else is being counted. Whatever...

I've made no secret of being in Switzerland - you'll notice that NicoleK knew this and reminded everyone, even before I mentioned it myself. You will likely find other interesting bits, I can hardly wait.

You seem offended that someone outside the United States dares comment on an American blog. However, what set this off was the discussion of American military presence in other countries, specifically Europe. As a European, this seems entirely fair game.

I'll have to buy NicoleK a beer, next time I'm out her way...

Well, if it's entertaining for you. Seems unlikely that I've made 1000 comments, likely something else is being counted. Whatever...

I've made no secret of being in Switzerland - you'll notice that NicoleK knew this and reminded everyone, even before I mentioned it myself. You will likely find other interesting bits, I can hardly wait.

You seem offended that someone outside the United States dares comment on an American blog. However, what set this off was the discussion of American military presence in other countries, specifically Europe. As a European, this seems entirely fair game.

I'll have to buy NicoleK a beer, next time I'm out her way...

They always say that...

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it one afternoon in 1967, and you should have been taking notes and posting them on the edge of your monitor and warning everyone who came to the blog in after that about how I'm not really part of your country... It's not like I'm shamefully, childishly pretending to be a citizen of the greatest nation on Earth or anything...

> I've made no secret of…

Small-mindedness of this magnitude is, after all these years, still breathtaking.

AND IT HAPPENS ALL OVER THE GLOBE.



M'kay! See ya tomorrow!

"The drain in Iraq worked a lot better before 2003."

Wow, that is just one fucked up way of thinking.

Do you also think the "drain in Germany" worked a lot better before 1942?

So typical of the Swiss - just fill our banks with money - it doesn't matter if it is some tin-pot dictator stealing from his people or Jews trying to hid theirs (pot-luck for us Swiss, we get to keep theirs as the Nazis killed them off, hurray!)

Sorry, but if folks continue to trash the guy who does show up at 3:00 AM to help with that clogged drain he just might stop showing up. Then who are you going to call? The expensive, take-everything-you-own-for-payment, plumber. Good luck with that. You won't even get to keep your stolen Jewish money.

"You seem offended that someone outside the United States dares comment on an American blog. However, what set this off was the discussion of American military presence in other countries, specifically Europe. As a European, this seems entirely fair game."

Not really, I don't claim to speak for Canadians, or Mexicans based on some hare brained notion, that I know where their best interests lie, on the tenuous connection that we all live in North America.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/05/gold-m30.html

The Swiss have no moral authority on this topic.

Wow, just wow. I am pretending to be an American, because I don't include a disclaimer with every post? Today's disastrous situation in Iraq is better than Hussein?

Seems like rah-rah patriotism has pretty much shut down the thinking processes of certain people. The level of profanity and ad hominem comments is over the top. Now Godwin's law. Bye folks, I'm outta here...

Since the end of the cold war, there really is no military threat. ~ Posted by: bradley13 at June 18, 2014 12:27 AM

Since the Cold War (≈ 1991), the world has been a tension-free, peaceful, and idyllic place ... well, except for...
...the Balkans
...Libya
...Syria
...Lebanon
...Palestinian territories
...Ukraine
...Crimea
...Sri Lanka
...Kashmir
...Iran
...Iraq
...Kuwait
...Afghanistan
...Philippines
...East Timor
...Northern Ireland
...Chad
...Mali
...Tunisia
...East China Sea
...North Korea
...Bali
...Georgia
...Chechnya

Oh yeah, no worries here, folks.

Basically, bradley13 is saying that nothing in any of these situations could in any way blow up to harm the Swiss, so nothing needs to be done.

Lest we forget, Moammar Khaddafi declared a fatwa against the Swiss for banning minarets. He's dead now, but the Swiss still don't allow minarets. So this could blow up the next time an imam can't cash a check from his Swiss account ... or decides his cuckoo clock is evil ... or finds his broken Rolex is out of warranty.

Also, let's keep in mind that one of Roosevelt's goals for the end of World War II was to demilitarize Europe. The US looked at Europe and saw a hotbed of violence and near-constant warfare, the last two of which grown global and ensnared the US.

Here's a partial list of the violent conflicts in Europe in the 69 years leading up to World War II:

• -Franco-Prussian War
  
• -Third Carlist War
  
• -Servo-Turkish War
  
• -Montenegrin-Ottoman War
  
• -Russo-Turkish War
  
• -Serbo-Bulgarian War
  
• -Greco-Turkish War (1)
  
• -Albanian Revolt
  
• -Italo-Turkish War
  
• -First and Second Balkan Wars
  
• -World War I
  
• -Russian Civil War
  
• -Easter Rising
  
• -Ukranian-Soviet War
  
• -Gerogian-Armenian War
  
• -Gerogian-Turkish War
  
• -Georgian-Soviet Conflict (Sochi)
  
• -Polish-Ukraine War
  
• -Estonian Liberation War
  
• -Latvian War of Independence
  
• -Hungarian-Romanian War
  
• -Christmas Uprising
  
• -Greco-Turkish War (2)
  
• -Turkish War of Independence
  
• -Czechoslovakia-Hungary War
  
• -Silesian Uprising
  
• -Polish-Soviet War
  
• -Irish War of Independence
  
• -Polish-Lithuanian War
  
• -Viora War
  
• -Georgian-Soviet War
  
• -Irish Civil War
  
• -West Hungary Uprising
  
• -Austrian Civil War
  
• -Spanish Civil War
  
• -Slovak-Hungarian War
  
• -Winter War
  

All good so far as goes, but this is major understatement:

> And the US military has played a major
> role in creating that aberration.

The US role wasn't large... It was central, essential, contingent, and that's not enough to describe it, either. No other force in the Universe was going to break Europe's clocklike pattern of slaughter.

No other nation was as comfortably safe from attack by opportunist European players. None was so wealthy, and thus incorruptible. None had the decency, and none had the balls.

(These virtues are with us still as we try to keep the lid on Asian violence in this century.)

Kagan spells it out in this video. (The camera image is anamorphic: He's not really that fat.)


Agreed then: Bradley13 is a goofball, and a rhetorically unresponsive one, at that.

Man, I worded that wrong... I was on the way into the shower and could already imagine the floaty bubbles dancing in the steam.

The role of America in Europe's peace was MAJOR. And it was LARGE. And it was ESSENTIAL. No other force in the Universe was strong enough to break their bad habits, as so patiently listed by Coney.

Bradley13 believes this peace came to him because of something he did, which is preposterous.

But we notice that he doesn't want to test his belief in any way.

"Wow, just wow. I am pretending to be an American, because I don't include a disclaimer with every post? Today's disastrous situation in Iraq is better than Hussein?"

No, but in 2009 before Obama threw it all away, it was considerably better than Hussein. No gassing of Kurds, and no invasion or occupation of Kuwait.

Not to mention the destabilization of the entire Middle East in the last five years.

Ya gotta win the peace, not just the war.

Good thing the US didn't just declare victory in Europe, pull out, and let the Russians have it. There's your utopian alternative right there.

My husband fought in Iraq. Did you?