The Second Amendment is a real constitutional right, and yet waiting periods for buying a gun have been found constitutional.

I don't know how I feel about this. First question is: is the waiting period effective? Is there any data on how many women decide not to go through with an abortion after counseling? If the waiting period is ineffective in that regard, then there's no point.

Also: I don't know what kind of info is being presented during counseling, and quite possibly a lot of it is nonsense. But there is a non-trivial risk to future fertility from having an abortion. Over the course of my life I've known two women who had to undergo hysterectomies as a result of complications from an abortion. Somewhere I've seen a study that about 5% of women who underwent two or more abortions became unable to conceive after the last one, for various reasons.

I don't know how I feel about this. First question is: is the waiting period effective?

Why would it be "effective" to stop a woman from having a medical procedure. Don't assume that it is right for a woman to have a child. There are health risks to being pregnant and some women will choose to keep babies they cannot afford to raise, and in situations where they are a single parent, which research finds (over and over and over) has cascading negative repercussions for the child.

Pregnancy is far, far more dangerous and endangering to a woman's health than abortion, especially if abortions are performed as soon as possible after a woman learns she is pregnant.

I find abortion very disturbing (and I had one once, very, very early) but I have (and we have) no right to impose standards based on this on others.

Missouri and utah will gnash their teeth as people find a way to what they want.

Such a waiting period in Missouri would make it profitable to open a clinic just across the state line in illinois, across from the fireworks store. Driving an extra fifty miles would be inconvenient, but surgery is expected to be inconvenient. Looking at a nice patch of land just this side of the Utah border (should Roe V Wade ever be overturned and states get to make their own laws) - lots of parking, utilities, three miles from a real hospital, good investment. Doors close, windows open, VISA or Mastercard.

Isab: You're right. Maybe my clinic will include a fenced in free speech zone a mile away for which protestors will have to make an appointment; some colleges and political conventions do that thing and the first amendment is also a real right. Sitting by the roadside and waiting for a warrant so you car can be searched is an old traditional waiting period on the forth amendment. Your other rights can wait while the Powers get around to it, but one special medical procedure cannot. Parking by the door is $15, the nurse will add it to the bill.

Don't forget to calculate the health risk associated with traveling additional times to get the counseling as well as the abortion.

Don't forget to calculate the health risk associated with traveling additional times to get the counseling as well as the abortion.

Posted by: Bob in Texas at July 3, 2014 8:07 AM

It is much easier to use birth control, or drop by your local pharmacy for RU486.

Foresight kinda works that way.

People need to be taught that their genitals are not play toys. Nature made them to be reproductive organs.

"People need to be taught that their genitals are not play toys. Nature made them to be reproductive organs."

Only filthy Jesus-hating liberals use sex for pleasure.

Yeah the 72 hrs on guns doesn't make any sense, in the computer age it takes 3 minutes not 3 days to do a background check. So it is really there to annoy/inconvenience people, and maybe enough so they don't buy one.

This is why I believe we won't have sanity on such things until it is joined to one the other side feels is a sacred cow. i.e. gun rights and voting or abortion.

This is also seen with the left wanting extreme levels of regulation on every business, well every business except abortion providers.

"Why would it be 'effective' to stop a woman from having a medical procedure. Don't assume that it is right for a woman to have a child."

I assumed no such thing; I was looking at it strictly from a utilitarian standpoint. If the intent of the waiting period is to discourage women from having abortions, but it's not actually accomplishing that, then clearly it's useless. Whether or not women should have to wait to have an abortion is another matter (which I didn't address because I'm not sure what I think about it). But if the waiting period doesn't "work", then it's a pointless annoyance, and I'm all for eliminating pointless annoyances.

"Pregnancy is far, far more dangerous and endangering to a woman's health than abortion, especially if abortions are performed as soon as possible after a woman learns she is pregnant."

Certainly. However, abortion advocates often present abortion as being risk free, which it is not. Of course, there is no such thing as a totally risk-free medical procedure. My famale age cohort is pretty much out of that loop now, but back in the day a number of them told me about how abortion was promoted to them as being a worry-free form of backup birth control, and they showed some of the materials they got at the women's clinics that made it sound like a day at the beach. Of course, the pro-life advoctes gave them different info, but they (rightly so in a lot of cases) regarded that as propaganda and ignored it.

This was all back in the '80s. Maybe the pro-choice advocates have gotten a bit more responsible in how they present the info. I personally doubt it, though.

People need to be taught that their genitals are not play toys. Nature made them to be reproductive organs."

Only filthy Jesus-hating liberals use sex for pleasure.

Posted by: Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at July 3, 2014 9:27 AM

Well if sex wasn't fun, we would not be talking about this because the human race would be extinct.

Just want to point out that understanding how your reproductive system works, and not getting blotto drunk, and fucking everything with a dick just because you feel like it, would sure prevent a lot of these "surgical procedures"

I have a very irresponsible daughter who drinks like a fish, and does a lot of stupid shit, but somehow, in twelve plus years of sexual activity has never managed to get pregnant or need an abortion.

She has been to the doctor for the morning after pill a couple of times.

The easier and cheaper you make abortion, the more women will use it as their first option rather than the last resort it should be.

I'm all for making it enough of a hassle so it doesn't become like calling out for pizza, with the bill, as usual, picked up by the tax payers.

"The easier and cheaper you make abortion, the more women will use it as their first option rather than the last resort it should be."

And the data supporting this - where might we find it?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/medicaid-expansion-increased-emergency-room-visits-study/

Abortion Cost
" How do Abortion Rates Vary Among Medicaid – Eligible Women in States That do and do not pay for Abortion?
In those states where Medicaid covers medically necessary abortions, women with Medicaid have an abortion rate in four times higher than women without Medicaid coverage. In those where abortions are not covered, the abortion rate among Medicaid recipients was in two times higher than among women without Medicaid coverage.

The cost varies from state to state, from region to region. It depends how far the pregnancy advanced, have you or not medical insurance, if you have you will get co-payment or partial payment. The best way to pay for an abortion is, of course, cash or money. At most clinics, the cost of the all options for first trimester abortion is usually similar. "
From:

http://www.abortionsweb.com/abortion-facts/abortion-cost-1.htm

Thanks, Isab, but I was looking for data supporting your contention.

The CBS article doesn't mention abortion at all and the "abortionsweb" (really? that's a source?) article is about Medicaid-funded abortions.

Nothing in either article supports the idea that wanton slatterns and harlots skip from bedroom to abortionist with impunity.

This was interesting.

https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/births_deaths_marriages_divorces/family_planning_abortions.html

Maybe YOUR genitals aren't play toys, Isab; but, who the hell are you to tell others that their genitals aren't?

Maybe YOUR genitals aren't play toys, Isab; but, who the hell are you to tell others that their genitals aren't?

Posted by: Charles at July 3, 2014 5:24 PM

Just a taxpayer in a country that chooses to use those dollars to fund socially irresponsible behavior, and the consequences thereof.

Other than that, I don't care.