This is the kind of preventable, stupid accident that gives guns a bad name. The blame here lies 100% with the instructor. His weapon, his responsibility.

A fully-automatic weapon is hard enough for an adult to control. A 9 year old girl has no business even trying.

He won't make the same mistake again.

I was thinking the same thing. I have the gun capabilities of a 1 year old hence my ex special forces brother only lets me play with his water guns (no BBs for me!)

My dad taught me how to shoot a rifle when I was 5. I intend to teach my kids when I feel they are mature enough to do so and follow the safety instructions given. I'm not sure why the instructor let a 9-year-old girl handle an automatic weapon without properly standing behind her and also holding onto the weapon to help her control the recoil. It was a lapse in judgment on his part and resulted in a deadly accident. I don't think this now means the government needs to start pushing for tighter gun control or other restrictions.

The state has no business getting involved here. Everyone was a consenting party - except for the 9-year old. She really isn't old enough to know to give consent.

And now she will have to live with this terrible accident for the rest of her life because her parents and the instructor were stupid.

As the saying goes - you cannot outlaw stupidity.

What a tragic situation. Even if you want your child to learn about guns, I just can't see the need for them to learn about automatic weapons. I'd love to see more controls, but I agree with Charles, "you cannot outlaw stupidity."

I'd love to see more controls, but I agree with Charles, "you cannot outlaw stupidity."

Posted by: holly at August 29, 2014 5:05 AM

What controls? In addition to the 20,000 plus gun laws on the books already?

I was taught to shoot a bebe gun at Camp Michigania at age 8. I also don't see the need for a 9-year-old to learn to shoot automatic weapons. Marksmanship is another thing and can be taught with a gun they can handle.

If you want your 9 year old to shoot a fully auto weapon at a gun range, make sure it's something they can handle on full auto, or set it up on a stand or something so it doesn't go flying around when they can't control it.

I was taught to shoot a bebe gun at Camp Michigania at age 8. I also don't see the need for a 9-year-old to learn to shoot automatic weapons. Marksmanship is another thing and can be taught with a gun they can handle.

Posted by: Amy Alkon at August 29, 2014 6:47 AM

I don't see a need for that either. But in terms of absolute risk far more people die doing inherently risky things, and things that are more risky than people perceive them to be.

I will take freedom in general, over more Nanny state.
I guess if they had left her alone to play in a park, the parents here would have been arrested?

Deaths at shooting ranges are extremely rare. Probably a good analogy for this terrible accident would be an instructor drowning during a one on one swimming lesson.

There are no new lessons about safety here. This instructor made the ultimate screw up. A fully automatic weapon should be shot on a tripod, with enough weight to keep the muzzle from rising or twisting. That is the only safe way for an untrained shooter to shoot one.

No, I would not let a child that age shoot a fully automatic weapon off hand. It should be one shot at a time, and only one round in the chamber at a time with the instructor standing behind the student.

In my humble opinion Mr. Vacca has vaulted into the lead of the 2014 Darwin Awards and is a lock for the win.

As I mentioned elsewhere, if you check your Latin dictionary, maybe the instructor's last name gives a clue as to his mental capacity.

The blame here lies 100% with the instructor. His weapon, his responsibility.

The parents are 5%-15% responsible.

But he shouldnt have given it to he on auto, shoulda left it on single shot til she got used to the recoil.

Didya know there are figure for damn near everything?

Drop down cribs killed 100 infants over 25 years and got pulled.

Cant find any numbers on how many accident shooting death occur a year at shooting ranges.

Hell circumcision kills around a hundred infants every year.

But even though no one seems to be able to find hard numbers I have no doubt this will be used, not to stop parents from letting children use guns in a controlled environments, but to limit the buying capacity of adults

The blame here lies 100% with the instructor. His weapon, his responsibility.

The parents are 5%-15% responsible.

But he shouldnt have given it to he on auto, shoulda left it on single shot til she got used to the recoil.

Didya know there are figure for damn near everything?

Drop down cribs killed 100 infants over 25 years and got pulled.

Cant find any numbers on how many accident shooting death occur a year at shooting ranges.

Hell circumcision kills around a hundred infants every year.

But even though no one seems to be able to find hard numbers I have no doubt this will be used, not to stop parents from letting children use guns in a controlled environments, but to limit the buying capacity of adults

A few things if you watch the video. The Uzi has a wire stock that was not extended. That probably would have helped her keep the weapon steadier.

The range has upped the age for automatic weapons to 12.

But to let the government change the rules would be the worst thing to happen.

Where I learned to shoot, the club had a minimum age of 18 for learning pistol marksmanship.

The primary problem is that a short firearm is too easy to wave around. Concentration and judgement are necessary in order to keep the barrel pointing downrange at all times. This is vastly easier to do consistently with a long gun.

The issue is, has the person worked up to controlling that level of weapon? This was instructor and parent first decision. .22 on a rest for first experience. Full auto, while not knowing guns at all, is stupid.... and it sends the wrong message to everyone.

No matter how mucha pain, you follow the rules, because the wrong end of a gun kills.
So too, go carts, motor cycles, less so baseball bats and golf clubs... but these are all things the kids may start doing.
The go-carts in particular, have had a number of fatal accidents in that age range. ATV's too... but should there be more govt. Control than parental?

I can garundamntee that more people have died doin kid motorsports, than on gun ranges... but it rarely makes the news.

This accident was preventable at many points, and I will bet the lessons are already being folded in to range safety demos. The girl and her family will need therapy for sure.

That DOES NOT MEAN that the government needs to outlaw it, or restrict it. Interestingly, people will learn from the mistakes, and avoid them, without intervention.

Accidents happen. I've never heard of something like this before, so my guess is it is pretty rare. You cant outlaw all dangerous sports.

Speaking as an individual that has been a firearm instructor for more decades than I care to admit. The scariest person I ever seen was a 60-70 something woman with a S&W J Frame revolver. Poor choice of firearm for such a person, but no doubt some "expert" told her it is what she needed. In any case, every time she fired it she would literally jump as if startled. She also tended to waive the muzzle around. We finally had to ask her to leave the range.

On the other hand at our summer youth program, after a couple of months with .22 rifles and demonstrated ability to operate a firearm in a safe and responsible fashion, I would let them shoot a couple of rounds out of my AR or Kalashnikov,their choice. Some of them are 9-10 years old. There would be an instructor on each side, and my hand was a few inches from the forend so I could quickly grab the rifle and control the muzzle. Never had a problem, just a lot of big smiles.

Age doesn't guarantee anything. I have seen 9 and 10 year olds on the range that have my complete confidence. I have seen "adults" the range that really scare me.

Accidents happen. I've never heard of something like this before, so my guess is it is pretty rare. You cant outlaw all dangerous sports.

Posted by: NicoleK at August 29, 2014 12:06 PM

You can try. Especially when you have the media on your side, and a hysterical anti gun, not so hidden agenda.

Fortunately we have Heller and McDonald, and the five justices in the majority still on the court.

I suspect most people don't understand that all your constitutional rights hang pretty much by a thread, in this country, and that thread is which guy gets to appoint Supreme Court justices.

Think Hillary cares about the Second Amendment, the first amendment, the 4th amendment? Guess again.

Thank god Cheney wasn't there. Imagine the carnage.

This isn't the first time a full auto incident with a child has happened . . .

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27399337/ns/us_news-life/t/boy-accidentally-kills-self-gun-show/#.VAKOHNS2-Ck

100% the instructor's fault and he paid the ultimate price. Children are quite capable of being safe with high power firearms. I started competitive shooting at 10, along with my little brother who was 8 and my older brother who was 11. By the time I was 12 we all had plenty of experience with M1 Garands, Colt .45 Gold Cups and .22 target rifles/pistols. Full auto is another level and even soldiers have a difficult time with muzzle rise.

Thank god Cheney wasn't there. Imagine the carnage.

Posted by: Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at August 29, 2014 7:58 PM

Cheney should go hunting with Obama..